2019-2020 Programs and Choreographers

Bigbird

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1,117
If P/C did do S/K's RD it would be so unrecognizable and sophisticated we'd have a much better understanding of the difference between these two. S/K are well trained skaters, P/C are indescribable. #ubermodemay2019
 

sharsk8s

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434
But they somehow fit their style and similar elements into all dances they perform. To me, for example, tango should look dramatically different then let's say Moonlight Sonata, but instead of going for extremely fast and sharp Argentine version, they succeed to incorporate again their flowy, yet dramatical and passionate style. Did I like their tango or waltz? Yes, but it is all the time the same way of movement.
I understand many may have a problem with how they incorporate their "style" into all their programs. But this "style" is their natural way of skating. They were taught in a fashion which favors long, deep edges. That is not to say I don't want them to try a new genre but no matter what they do their skating will always have a familiarity. Although I agree at times that they have molded their SD into something more similar to their classic FD (such as in 2016) this years tango especially and in many respects their samba last season weren't the same as moonlight sonata. I think it is perfectly normal to hope they go for more variety in their programs or add more unique elements but it isn't reasonable to ask them to completely change their way of skating.
 

casken

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10,559
Did people erase P&C's 2015 Flamenco SD from history? They demonstrated pretty early that they can do sharp and staccato very well, and it's one of their best programs, IMO.

If they've fallen into a FD style, it's hard to blame them. The ISU has been rewarding that since the rise of the Shpilband/Zueva school of dance. P&C took a slight chance with the FD music in 2017 and the reaction was almost immediately negative and they had to remix it to be more flowy. Even then, the judges still went for V&M's more flowy, more traditional FD.
 

Dobre

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6,491
I think Piper and Paul started it actually.
They did. But I wasn't wondering about that this year. Paul & Piper's program demonstrated that disco would be acceptable to the judges so I agree that it probably opened up coaches' & skaters' minds toward going in that direction. It didn't get Gilles & Poirier anywhere up the ranks, though, as it finished 9th during the RD at Worlds. And, therefore, it wasn't inevitable that we would get a follow-up program.

Fear & Gibson, however, demonstrated that a team in 24th place at their previous Worlds, with low pattern levels, and a lower scoring RD, could finish higher in the FD all season while skating to disco music & getting the crowd. (Some of that score coming from stronger levels in the FD but much of it coming from subjective GOE). 24th to 13th. A follow-up to that, during a season in which the RD must be to a musical, seemed pretty inevitable. At least it did to me prior to the announcement regarding the Finnstep.

In any case, we've got one (RD or FD not yet clarified). And also, I believe, a disco-related exhibition announced from Komatsubara & Koleto. And a Mama Mia RD for Sales & Wamsteeker.
 
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suki

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503
Good. They need something fun. And this season is a prime opportunity for that. Might be lucky if it is the only Saturday Night Fever, as this is the first musical that came to mind when I was wondering who might try to spin off the success from Fear & Gibson's disco program last year; but Kaitlin & Jean-Luc seem like a good fit for it.
Jean-Luc disco dancing on ice is my idea of heaven.:saint:
 

levineismine

I believed in Hubbell&Donohue before it was cool
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If I guessed right from their Instagram clues, Lauriault/LeGac are doing Les Demoiselles de Rochefort as SD
 

VGThuy

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I think when it comes down to it, similar style or no, P/C just have a quality that is hard to beat. What they do, they do in an astronomical level that other teams who are challenging themselves by trying new things can do that but they still have to match P/C's skating skills and just that extra that they have to seems to be beyond ice dance as a sport as they make it look so easy and effortless while looking impressive. Teams that try to imitate them because they think the style itself is what is making P/C win sort of miss the point because for them, it's not the style itself but P/C's quality and the perfect match of their skating strengths and personal style that seems so genuine from them that is having them win. Some times when teams ice dance, you can tell they are doing elements or trying to punch it hard to show off while P/C never look like they have to even try as if it's a dream. That said, I do agree with others who are getting tired of P/C doing like the same spin for six years and falling back on moves they know will maximize GOE rather than doing new things on the elements themselves and risking losing some GOE at first. But then that's IJS judging.

Regarding ice dance judges deeming their style being more important than others. I don't think that's really true when it comes to them versus most of their competitors. I think one could make the point that their style is seen as more important than others when it came to them competing against V/M because V/M was a team that could challenge them and were on their level.* During the 2017-2018 season, it seemed like the judges were siding with P/C until the SD mishap happened (though their scores were really high anyway and some judges did look like it had no affect on them with how they scored that performance). IMO, when teams are maximizing levels in that way and getting similar GOEs and are skating of similar quality and doing their personal best in their programs, then it's hard to say a team beat another team in ice dance as it really does just come down to judge's opinion and it's really outside any team's control by that point as it's not like they could skate or perform any better than they did. It's not like someone did a two triple/triples while another skater only did one or one had a triple axel or one had more jumps in the latter half, had more quads, and better spins, etc. to analyze why a skater won/lost.

*This may cause some uproar, but I'd argue V/M were on a higher level actually because I find they don't have some of the rough and at times positions Gabriella can find herself in going in and out of moves awkwardly, especially in pattern dances where Gabriella has been guilty at times of not finishing the moves as prescribed but not on the keypoints (so it doesn't really matter). With the Keypoints, P/C hit them and overall they move so well with so much speed and they have that glide that not even V/M have that it takes screenshots from their detractors to show that.

ETA: OMG, I didn't realize this was the music/choreographer thread. I thought this was the ice dance thread. I apologize for posting so much in response to people's discussion about P/C and ice dance here.
 
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aftershocks

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16,454
It's May.
Meaning what exactly? Costuming often evolves over the course of the season, and Satoko's and Kihira's programs were presented during exhibition in the month of May, so yes, the costuming can change by the start of the season and over the course of the season. But it's not a certainty that either Satoko or Kihira will be changing their costuming for competition.

I love a well-rocked bodysuit a la Vanessa James, and other ladies over the past few years. I don't have any problem with ladies wearing bodysuits. But I think much more exploration and experimentation should be done with costuming, particularly among the ladies. I'd love to see more ladies wearing pants (a la Maia Shibutani in the Shibs' hip hop SD), and not just skin-tight bodysuits.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jKAXYg8En-s/WA2cK4UMlEI/AAAAAAABcuM/lIrmXEX3SLMtuGfqB9YmG_EAKBs2sjAXACLcB/s1600/Shibutanis_Fotor_Collage.jpg It looks more like Maia is wearing pants and a top, rather than a bodysuit, though it may well be a one-piece outfit. Also, the music suits what she's wearing, IMO. In addition, Rachel Parsons wore kickin' pants and a top for her hip hop program with brother, Michael:
https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/taiwanisuskating-2.jpg?w=620

A thinking outside-the-box pants and top:
https://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2012518/reg_634.olympics.oksana.mh.061812.jpg

Part of the difficulty in experimenting with costumes is of course the requirement to keep costumes from interfering with the necessity to move expansively and to perform difficult athletic jumps, etc.

I think Satoko and Kihira look hot in what they are wearing. My main point is that I don't think their skin-tight black bodysuits particularly match the music they are skating to. Maybe if styled with a bit more color and imagination, the skin-tight feature could work a bit better. Or else pantaloons for Satoko along the lines of Oksana Baiul in The Feeling Begins, but with less exposure on the top, and less bagginess in the pantaloons so as not to interefere with jumping rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4W2u0CXryc a creative program ahead of its time in 1995

If Satoko prefers the skin-tight bodysuit, then why not make it with something more colorful and Egyptian-themed: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3f/79/a0/3f79a0a0e9ec8696a36adb730d901fa5--ukraine-sport.jpg
Or go with classic Greek-inspired dress styling, but not as long in length as this:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c6/0e/c3/c60ec31b2e851480b273b44655d63ec0--figure-skating-ice-skating.jpg

For me, Kihira's music brings something more fanciful to mind besides a skin-tight bodysuit, such as this: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/65/1c/00/651c00e2f0b3a985f7d2310ee343717b.jpg
Or this:
https://shop.oksanabaiul.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/OBC_420a_Royal-Burgendy-Cheetah-with-semi-sheer-arms-and-velvet-skirt_FS-Dress_-FRONT_IMG0519-333x500.jpg
Color variation:
https://shop.oksanabaiul.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/OBC_420b_Royal-Blue-Cheetah-with-semi-sheer-arms-and-velvet-skirt_FS-Dress_Front_IMG0511-333x500.jpg

Or maybe for Kihira (and I'm just talking about taking inspiration from these costumes, mind you):
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7e/9f/2c/7e9f2c6975081de69d53904ef0c7572f.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U7GtEeHypak/Tspc9AC410I/AAAAAAAADto/hMniDl4uIbo/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/bjork.jpg Without the funky collar and sleeves, and with a sheer color-coordinated skirt

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f5/bb/14/f5bb14530059141a026579efa24a9a40--iceland-style-icons.jpg
A sleeveless top in a similar material, with same flower-patterned skirt, but obviously styled as a short skating skirt -- It's an Asian-themed style

:lol:https://i.pinimg.com/736x/25/c4/40/25c440a0e9c1f1776d22ab71f1c24f19--junya-watanabe-style-icons.jpg Of course, in a very lightweight fabric with very streamlined styling :D The make-up certainly suits the fanciful nature of Kihira's music

Additional inspirations generally:
http://www.xamas-international.com/807-thickbox_default/902-figure-skating-dress-black-sparkling-silver-diamante.jpg
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/121456986248-0-1/s-l1000.jpg
http://figureskatingwarehouse.com/images/zoom/kimonoback.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/aa/1e/3b/aa1e3b597e295df4c1059c4586adb3ad.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c8/f6/b5/c8f6b576495364ee55910076a6b5a9b4.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bb/82/d0/bb82d07bc263cd5a4484218741be30f5.jpg ('Work Bitch'?)

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7f/31/27/7f31270c91b3339d8328a5c422eef75f--spring-clothes-summer-clothing.jpg sans the over-exposed midriff

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/86/f3/1e86f3b83b4ddb4b65951403fbac81e7.jpg with skin-tight red pants, not voluminous; or with red hot pants this would also go well for a 'Work Bitch' program that hopefully will see the light of day--

ETA: :watch:
https://image.dhgate.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g6-M01-2F-49-rBVaSFtKvByAQJCEAAJdnf6ETnQ883.jpg/new-sheer-lace-tops-and-pants-two-piece-set.jpg
http://picture-cdn.wheretoget.it/47apj2-l-610x610-shorts-floral-summer-blouse-swimwear-pants-turkis+green+flower+blue+pants+pant+black+ponk-nice-printed-clothes+flower+shorts-black+crop+x+shirt-summer+outfits--floral+shorts-sun.jpg (for Mariah's 'Work Bitch' perhaps?) ;)
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/15/1b/cd/151bcda0cacdcf57dfa9d6b5e39d2df7--pajama-set-holiday-lingerie.jpg
 
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Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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60,484
ETA: OMG, I didn't realize this was the music/choreographer thread. I thought this was the ice dance thread. I apologize for posting so much in response to people's discussion about P/C and ice dance here.
You're forgiven... this time. ;)

If I guessed right from their Instagram clues, Lauriault/LeGac are doing Les Demoiselles de Rochefort as SD
You guessed right! https://www.instagram.com/p/ByDzgPrJ9fa/ (added to spreadsheet)

ETA: So glad an ice dance team chose RD music from this awesome film soundtrack by Michel Legrand. :cheer:
 
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aftershocks

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16,454
Teams that try to imitate them because they think the style itself is what is making P/C win sort of miss the point because for them, it's not the style itself but P/C's quality and the perfect match of their skating strengths and personal style that seems so genuine from them...
Exactly. It's about being authentic. If you gain inspiration from something else or someone else, you've got to adapt it to who you are as a skater, in order to best bring out your own strengths.
 

Japanfan

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I love a well-rocked bodysuit a la Vanessa James, and other ladies over the past few years. I don't have any problem with ladies wearing bodysuits. But I think much more exploration and experimentation should be done with costuming, particularly among the ladies. I'd love to see more ladies wearing pants (a la Maia Shibutani in the Shibs' hip hop SD), and not just skin-tight bodysuits.
This! And it would give the ladies more program options as well.

But FS is a conservative sport in some ways, and slow to change. And a lot of ladies and ladies' coaches probably prefer to play it safe.

I'm reminded of disappointed I was way when Daleman canned her 'Gladiator'. No it's not a program requiring a pants costume, but it is a program that is traditionally 'masculine' and has been skated only or mostly by men. I really wanted to see what Daleman would do with the music, given that she's such a powerful skater, which suits the music very well.

Part of the difficulty in experimenting with costumes is of course the requirement to keep costumes from interfering with the necessity to move expansively and to perform difficult athletic jumps, etc.
But that's true for all costumes, for both men and women, for both pants and dresses. And partly or largely the responsibility of the costume designer.

And there are lot of stretch fabrics these days.
 

aftershocks

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16,454
The above is just for design inspiration, of course. No overly exposed midriffs are allowed. :p

Still, the side cut-outs in that lingerie get-up remind me of this Stolbova costume: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbVBBm88jDM For you @Mad for Skating :D KStol's costume is what I'm talking about. Think Outside The Box, and Outside the Lines!

I'm reminded of disappointed I was way when Daleman canned her 'Gladiator'. No it's not a program requiring a pants costume, but it is a program that is traditionally 'masculine' and has been skated only or mostly by men. I really wanted to see what Daleman would do with the music, given that she's such a powerful skater, which suits the music very well
Exactly. Something more powerful and Wonder Woman-like was needed for both music and costume, which sadly did not happen. Lori Nichol was not the right choreographer. Shae Lynn Bourne or Benoit Richaud might have come up with something more exciting.

The music cuts chosen were a cop-out to the overdone and off-base criticism of Daleman not being so-called 'refined and lyrical.' Gabby D ain't lyrical d**n straight, nor does she need to be. F' refined! Give me well de-fined and authentic every time. :kickass: Think Outside the Box please Ladies!
 
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Japanfan

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22,460
Exactly. Something more powerful and Wonder Woman-like was needed for both music and costume, which sadly did not happen. Lori Nichol was not the right choreographer. Shae Lynn Bourne or Benoit Richaud might have come up with something more exciting.

The music cuts chosen were a cop-out to the overdone and off-base criticism of Daleman not being so-called 'refined and lyrical.' Gabby D ain't lyrical d**n straight, nor does she need to be. F' refined! Give me well de-fined and authentic every time. :kickass: Think Outside the Box please Ladies!
And ladies need the support of their team to do so, which I don't think many coaches and choreographers and other FS professionals do. Hence Ladies FS continues to emphasize a feminine ideal.

Agree with you about Lori Nichol, but I don't know whether Shae Lynn would do any better at thinking outside the box. She certainly demonstrated a capacity for innovation in her competitive career, which would come in handy if she worked on a non-traditional program with a female skater.
 

aftershocks

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16,454
... I don't know whether Shae Lynn would do any better at thinking outside the box.
:lol: AFAIK from everything I've seen and witnessed about Shae Lynn, she not only thinks outside the box, she lives outside the box! :glamor: :gallopin1

:watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFCa_jX4Uu4 All That Jazz well de-fined & authentic :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WonCmPsVhp4 Cdn Nats Gala :encore: Unique & Unexpected
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxMwDa6IpI Ash Wagner one of many cheeky, sassy SLB programs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jljuph8ISAQ Jeremy Abbott, The Beatles & SLB Iconic! :swoon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l2FV8J8R6Y Nathan Chen, B. Clementine & SLB Innovative & Badass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gluunSQET58 Nathan, D. Ellington & SLB Creative & Outside-the-Box
 

sykr

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32
Did people erase P&C's 2015 Flamenco SD from history? They demonstrated pretty early that they can do sharp and staccato very well, and it's one of their best programs, IMO.
Honestly, I had to rewatch P/C's Flamenco to really be fair to them. I did so in work, so I was watching without sound. Just try it and you might be surprised there are very few sharp and fast movements, other than typical Flamenco clapping. Deep edges, dynamic movement, and a great flow? Yes, but sharpness?...not really. If I want to watch a great Flamenco, I will much rather pick V/M in 2010 and even Sui/Han, who have had a completely fabulous Flamenco SP back in 2016. Now, this is dynamic, staccato and sharp :swoon:
Btw, sorry for the off topic:)
 

sharsk8s

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434
Part of the difficulty in experimenting with costumes is of course the requirement to keep costumes from interfering with the necessity to move expansively and to perform difficult athletic jumps, etc.
I am actually surprised we don't see more girls going for the pants look. If I recall correctly Trusova said the reason she has been wearing costumes with pants is because she finds it easier to jump without the skirt.
 

alchemy void

#justice4dasa
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Daleman’s new LP is to “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” by Celine Dion!

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByGXmeZBV0V/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

:respec: :cheer: :kickass:

Can’t wait to see this. It’s my favorite Celine song—I loved Loena’s SP to it this season, but the music edits were cringy. A masterpiece like this song needs the full 4 minutes to breathe. #TeamCeline

Let’s hope this is the start of a trend and we have a new warhorse in skating! ;)
 
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AngieNikodinovLove

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Daleman’s new LP is to “It’s All Coming Back to Me Now” by Celine Dion!

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByGXmeZBV0V/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

:respec: :cheer: :kickass:

Can’t wait to see this. It’s my favorite Celine song—I loved Loena’s SP to it this season, but the music edits were cringy. A masterpiece like this song needs the full 4 minutes to breathe. #TeamCeline

Let’s hope this is the start of a trend and we have a new warhorse in skating! ;)
FOR REAL

We're gonna have Bell 2.0? Im living for it!

I hope this music inspires her (and her jumps)

I need some Daleman realness!

My fav Celine song is "Falling Into You." Id love to see that performed.

Also, "Have You Ever Been In Love."
 

VGThuy

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30,610
I credit Mariah Bell (who I wonder was inspired by that Sasha Cohen/Angela Nikodinov double whammy of "To Love You More" exhibitions in 2001-ish) for bringing Celine Dion into competitive skating. I'm curious to see Daleman's take on Celine.
 

AngieNikodinovLove

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Tada

Member
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I credit Mariah Bell (who I wonder was inspired by that Sasha Cohen/Angela Nikodinov double whammy of "To Love You More" exhibitions in 2001-ish) for bringing Celine Dion into competitive skating. I'm curious to see Daleman's take on Celine.
Kostner 2017-2018 Ne Me Quitte Pas short program sung by Celine Dion
 

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