2019-20 Canadian ladies news and updates

essence_of_soy

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But we know what else is out there, basically. Nobody comes close to Daleman in terms of international reputation and overall quality, when skating well. Since nobody "slam dunked this season", it makes much more sense to send the person who, if they're on, actually would place in the top ten.
Too bad Kaiya Ruiter can't compete at the senior level yet. She's the real deal, and definitely one to watch.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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7,372
Even with a poor free skate, Daleman's total score at SCI was about 8 points lower than Bausback's Warsaw score about about 4 points behind Schumacher's. So she won't even have to skate her best to finish top 2. Skate Canada hasn't published the selection criteria yet for worlds.

I'm hoping for Schumacher and Bausback to continue their positive momentum. I think both are capable of qualifying for the free skate at worlds, but Daleman is still our best bet to make top 10 (or 12 if our second skater makes the free) in order to keep two spots for next year.
 

essence_of_soy

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The provisional top twelve for the World Championships will likely include three Russians, three Japanese, two Koreans, two from the U.S, one from Azerbaijan, one from Poland, and maybe one from Finland.

If Daleman qualifies and skates well, she should fit somewhere in that equation.
 

danafan

Canadian ladies über
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7,372
Cotop, Mallet, and Pineault are on the list for Challenge despite having byes. If they all skate it will be interesting to see how they stack up against Schumacher and Bausback.
 

oleada

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42,572
I’m glad Bausback and Long got the minimums but I’m not sure either is a safe bet to qualify for the long program. Both of their PB are very close to the cut-off from last year and the ladies field is deeper this year. I think Daleman is the only one who can really be counted on to not only make the LP but also potentially make top 12, but even then that’s a tough ask at the moment. I think I’d send her if she was remotely close to healthy along with whoever does best at 4CC.
 

sk8girl

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Messages
501
With 2 spots, I can't imagine any scenario where they don't send Daleman to Worlds, regardless of what happens at Canadians (unless of course she tells them she doesn't want to go). Even on a so-so jumping day, her overall quality and PCS and experience are ahead of the other options and, as others have mentioned, she is still our best shot at getting a top 10 or top 12 finish with international judges.

If she wins Canadians, they send her and whoever finishes 2nd. If she doesn't win, they send her plus whoever won. I think something really unexpected would need to happen for them to do anything else.
 

dramagrrl

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1,856
I don't want to get way ahead of myself with Ruiter, but I agree with the poster above who wished she was age-eligible to skate senior. If she was, she would probably come away with the best result of any of our senior women who might compete at Worlds this year, with the possible exception of Gabby.
 

Dobre

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7,796
I suspect it is probably good for Kaiya that she is not. Let's let her learn a bit about competition at the international junior level first.
 

coppertop1

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1,379
Without Daleman, we would definitely go down to one spot. I doubt Skate Canada wants to risk that heading into a pre-Olympic season.

I suspect it is probably good for Kaiya that she is not. Let's let her learn a bit about competition at the international junior level first.

I agree. Let's not rush her. Give her time to develop.
 

dramagrrl

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1,856
I suspect it is probably good for Kaiya that she is not. Let's let her learn a bit about competition at the international junior level first.
Oh, I definitely agree. I should rephrase - I don't wish she was age-eligible for seniors as much as I think she would probably be our best bet if she were (which is not even speaking as much to her talent as it is to the lack of depth in our senior ladies program right now). Even if she were and there was a hypothetical situation in which she was going to be sent to senior Worlds, were I her coach, I would do what Phaneuf's coach did back when she beat Robinson at senior nationals and send her to JW instead.

Of course, since she is only in her first junior eligible season (I think?), this is all just hypothetical musing.
 

Marco

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14,658
Definitely send Daleman and the highest finisher to Worlds. Retaining a second spot depends on Daleman and Daleman only.

If Daleman doesn't deliver (enough) at Worlds, then perhaps Canada does not deserve two spots in the ladies for the next Worlds.
 

coppertop1

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1,379
Definitely send Daleman and the highest finisher to Worlds. Retaining a second spot depends on Daleman and Daleman only.

If Daleman doesn't deliver (enough) at Worlds, then perhaps Canada does not deserve two spots in the ladies for the next Worlds.
Great attitude.
 

Erin

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9,796
After struggling last year in St John, I am worried that she will need to skate well at the National Championships in order to prove to Skate Canada she is worthy of selection.
On the contrary, I think it would be good if she has to skate (reasonably) well to be selected. I would rather see more depth in Canada.

This year, it makes sense to just go with top 2 from Nationals regardless of who that is, because nobody slam dunked this season or did anything close to that.
Depending on who finishes where and how they skate, I wouldn’t be opposed to a 4CC skateoff for a Worlds spot. Especially if Daleman were to finish, say, third.

I’m not on the bandwagon for spreading the wealth with the 4CC spots. Someone like Daleman could use world standing points for start order purposes heading into Worlds (assuming she goes) and whoever else makes the team could use the experience, aside from perhaps Mallet.
 

essence_of_soy

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5,569
On the contrary, I think it would be good if she has to skate (reasonably) well to be selected. I would rather see more depth in Canada.

Depending on who finishes where and how they skate, I wouldn’t be opposed to a 4CC skateoff for a Worlds spot. Especially if Daleman were to finish, say, third.

I’m not on the bandwagon for spreading the wealth with the 4CC spots. Someone like Daleman could use world standing points for start order purposes heading into Worlds (assuming she goes) and whoever else makes the team could use the experience, aside from perhaps Mallet.
I'm reminded of 2012, when Skate Canada seemed desperate to get Cynthia Phaneuf on the World Team. Amelie Lacoste won the Canadian Title, but Four Continents was used to decide who would go to Nice. Lacoste beat Phaneuf again in an extremely close call.

Personally, neither skater had exceptional results that season. So, it really was an either/or whomever Skate Canada ended up choosing.

In the end, Phaneuf's past reputation could only buy her so much advantage. (However, I always thought she should have won bronze at the 2010 World Championships over Laura Lepisto.)

I question whether Daleman will ever return to her 2017 form, on top of which, the technical advances in the sport since then means that she will really need that quad toe if she hopes to make the podium at the international level now.
 
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coppertop1

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I'm reminded of 2012, when Skate Canada seemed desperate to get Cynthia Phaneuf on the World Team. Amelie Lacoste won the Canadian Title, but Four Continents was used to decide who would go to Nice. Lacoste beat Phaneuf again in an extremely close call.

Personally, neither skater had exceptional results that season. So, it really was an either/or whomever Skate Canada ended up choosing.

In the end, Phaneuf's past reputation could only buy her so much advantage. (However, I always thought she should have won bronze at the 2010 World Championships over Laura Lepisto.)

I question whether Daleman will ever return to her 2017 form, on top of which, the technical advances in the sport since then means that she will really need that quad toe if she hopes to make the podium at the international level now.
I'm not a fan of skate offs to determine who goes to Worlds. But, I do understand why they have them. Phaneuf, when she was on, was definitely capable of top ten. Lacoste, less so.

Unfortunately, it's been one thing after for Daleman since 2017. Illnesses, injuries, etc. She just hasn't been able to find her form.
 

euterpe

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12,408
I found it astounding that so many SENIOR ladies were using 3t+2t as their SP combo. Most of the JUNIORS were using 3s+2t.
 

puglover

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1,991
Last year Gabby was a huge question mark and this year even more so. I hope she has the physical and mental well being to be out there, whether she is Canada's best option or not.
 

haribobo

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8,048
Will Skate Canada realize they need to send Madeline Schizas out to at least get the 4cc min score and an ISU SB?
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
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61,694
Ar least Schizas (Challenge SR champ! :)) recently got her 2020 JR Worlds TES minimums of 23 SP / 38 FS (only Millard fell short of her minimums; unfortunately Blanchard WD from Challenge in SR):
Emily BAUSBACKCANISU JGP Lake Placid 201930/08/201931.76JISU JGP Lake Placid 201931/08/201953.35J
Sarah-Maude BLANCHARDCANISU JGP Canada 201813/09/201827.75JISU JGP Canada 201814/09/201849.29J
Emma BULAWKACANISU JGP Cup of Austria 201831/08/201823.79JISU JGP Cup of Austria 201801/09/201847.97J
Catherine CARLECANVolvo Open Cup 201907/11/201933.40JVolvo Open Cup 201908/11/201947.13J
Aurora COTOPCANISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 201804/10/201825.33JISU JGP Ljubljana Cup 201806/10/201843.74J
Hannah DAWSONCANISU JGP Canada 201813/09/201831.13JISU JGP Canada 201814/09/201838.89J
Olivia GRANCANISU JGP Chelyabinsk 201913/09/201927.51JISU JGP Chelyabinsk 201914/09/201950.17J
Emily MILLARDCANInternational Halloween Cup 201917/10/201921.51JInternational Halloween Cup 201918/10/201934.50J
Amelia ORZELCANGolden Bear 201824/10/201827.05JGolden Bear 201824/10/201846.15J
Kaiya RUITERCANISU JGP Egna/Neumarkt 201904/10/201932.68JISU JGP Egna/Neumarkt 201905/10/201951.50J
Madeline SCHIZASCANVolvo Open Cup 201907/11/201931.00JVolvo Open Cup 201908/11/201944.86J
Alison SCHUMACHERCANISU JGP Bratislava 201823/08/201832.63JISU World Junior Championships 201909/03/201957.42J
 

Sylvia

Wishing I could go back to the Lake Placid JGP
Messages
61,694
2020 Worlds TES minimums are 29 / 49 and six have both: Bausback, Cotop, Daleman, Mallet, Pineault, Schumacher (assuming Chartrand is not competing at nationals).

Emily BAUSBACKCANISU CS Warsaw Cup 201915/11/201929.41SISU CS Warsaw Cup 201917/11/201963.19S
Alaine CHARTRANDCANISU GP Skate Canada International 201826/10/201831.82SISU GP Skate America 201821/10/201853.60S
Aurora COTOPCANBavarian Open 201909/02/201929.17SBavarian Open 201910/02/201953.63S
Gabrielle DALEMANCANISU World Championships 201920/03/201936.75SISU World Championships 201922/03/201960.26S
Hannah DAWSONCANISU CS U.S. International Figure Skating Classic 201920/09/201928.65SVolvo Open Cup 201909/11/201942.26S
Michelle LONGCANISU CS Autumn Classic International 201912/09/201922.95SISU CS Autumn Classic International 201913/09/201949.01S
Veronik MALLETCANISU CS Finlandia Trophy 201805/10/201830.81SISU Four Continents Championships 201908/02/201957.38S
Alicia PINEAULTCANISU GP Skate Canada International 201826/10/201831.99SISU CS Autumn Classic International 201821/09/201854.87S
Alison SCHUMACHERCANISU CS Warsaw Cup 201915/11/201930.38SISU CS Warsaw Cup 201917/11/201955.76S
 

sk8girl

Well-Known Member
Messages
501
I found it astounding that so many SENIOR ladies were using 3t+2t as their SP combo. Most of the JUNIORS were using 3s+2t.
Me too. The top 16 novices all completed 3-2 or 2-3 combos in the short, at least half of which were also harder than 3t+2t (including a 3t+3t and three 3lz+2t). (For this purpose I'm counting fully-rotated combos with no fall deduction, but some did have minus GOE.)

With only the minimum base value, It's going to be really tough not to get completely buried after the short at Worlds. Hopefully more of the seniors will be able to increase their difficulty by Canadians.

Fingers crossed that Kaiya can stay healthy and maintain her jumps as she grows!!
 

dramagrrl

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1,856
I hate to say this, but the current Canadian senior ladies field (with the possible exception of Daleman, but who knows what she's skating like right now) reminds me of the bad old days in the 90s. It's not quite as bad when you make a direct comparison, but when you compare the current field to the international senior ladies field and the progress they've made since then, it's almost as bad.
 

4rkidz

plotting, planning and travelling
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12,270
I hate to say this, but the current Canadian senior ladies field (with the possible exception of Daleman, but who knows what she's skating like right now) reminds me of the bad old days in the 90s. It's not quite as bad when you make a direct comparison, but when you compare the current field to the international senior ladies field and the progress they've made since then, it's almost as bad.
But the junior an novice looking good so that’s positive
 

greenapple

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851
It is hard to believe that the Canadian ladies - whoever gets the nod for Worlds - will make the cut for the FS with those endless triple-double combinations.

The combined score of the winner at Challenge was lower than either of the FS scores Trusova (as an example) earned this season.
 

Colonel Green

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6,098
I hate to say this, but the current Canadian senior ladies field (with the possible exception of Daleman, but who knows what she's skating like right now) reminds me of the bad old days in the 90s. It's not quite as bad when you make a direct comparison, but when you compare the current field to the international senior ladies field and the progress they've made since then, it's almost as bad.
At this particular moment it's a bit worse than it otherwise would be since the two best senior ladies are both recovering from injury.

We still wouldn't have anybody with a triple Axel or a quad, but that's an extremely new development (well, not in the case of the Axel, but it becoming something you need to have to really contend for the major medals is new).

It is hard to believe that the Canadian ladies - whoever gets the nod for Worlds - will make the cut for the FS with those endless triple-double combinations.
Of the ladies that are actually in contention to go to Worlds, Veronik is the only one who does a triple-double in the short program. Though Alaine made the free skate last year with a triple-double (and a fall), admittedly.
 

Japanfan

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Messages
23,436
I hate to say this, but the current Canadian senior ladies field (with the possible exception of Daleman, but who knows what she's skating like right now) reminds me of the bad old days in the 90s. It's not quite as bad when you make a direct comparison, but when you compare the current field to the international senior ladies field and the progress they've made since then, it's almost as bad.
If Daleman competes this season, there is a world medalist in the mix. That makes for a much stronger field than the 90s. Top Ten Jen was 'a good ambassador for the sport' and all that, but ladies was quite boring IMO until Rochette came along.
 

greenapple

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851
As far as I know, no one knows which ladies will get the nod for the Worlds spots until nationals so how do you know who is actually in contention @Colonel Green?

Only two ladies attempted a triple-triple in the short at Challenge - and only one got credit for it. So Mallet is not the only one. Neither Daleman nor Mallet have performed well this season. Daleman landed a triple toe-triple toe combination in the short at Skate Canada which left her in fifth. How high do you think that combination will rank in Montreal among the world's best?
 
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dramagrrl

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1,856
If Daleman competes this season, there is a world medalist in the mix. That makes for a much stronger field than the 90s.
Not necessarily, if said world medalist is in either emotional or physical condition that would make it very unlikely for her to place in the top ten or even top fifteen in the world. I have no idea what shape Daleman will be in either mentally or physically come time for nationals or Worlds, but the actual evidence we have of her condition from this season so far does not inspire confidence.
 

Colonel Green

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As far as I know, no one knows which ladies will get the nod for the Worlds spots until nationals so how do you know who is actually in contention @Colonel Green?
Well, most obviously, the ones who actually have the technical minimums to go — those being Daleman, Cotop, Mallet, Bausback, Pineault, and Schumacher. Those are also, mostly, the people with international competition experience. Most of the people at Challenge wouldn’t ever be considered for international assignments even if they somehow won.

Only two ladies attempted a triple-triple in the short at Challenge - and only one got credit for it. So Mallet is not the only one.
Mallet is the only one of the ladies listed above who doesn’t attempt a triple-triple (Cotop didn’t at Challenge, for instance, because she’s working back from injury; fingers crossed things will continue to improve for her).

Neither Daleman nor Mallet have performed well this season.
Veronik has a pretty good showing at SkAm, then a weaker one at her last-minute SCI appearance a week later.

Daleman landed a triple toe-triple toe combination in the short at Skate Canada which left her in fifth. How high do you think that combination will rank in Montreal among the world's best?
Gabrielle when clean can get a 70+ short program score with that content, so...pretty decently? Nobody is saying she’s a medal contender (at the moment that field has effectively narrowed to four people), but it’s silly to act like she’s way behind the field. Her jump content is basically the same as everybody else bar the Russians and Rika.
 

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