2017-2018 Program Music and Choreographers

^^ Yes, I thought of those comments immediately upon seeing the programs.

Personally I think it's been evident for a while that Cheng Peng inspires good work from Lori. Although many people never liked Peng/Zhang as a team, they actually had some great & interesting programs together. Now this continues with Peng/Jin. I think both their programs look promising, especially Butterfly Lovers.

Lori seemed inspired too by Sui/Han the last couple years. I'm going to withhold judgment on S/H's new programs until we see them again ... They're obviously not in their best condition yet, and that affects the impression as well.

I totally agree...Lori makes the programs she does not train the skaters...Perhaps their is a lot more to add to what we saw as it is taking them longer to do the elements clean so they are leaving artistic touches out for now until they are skating the program stronger. This is very common in figure skating.Vietgrlterifa's questioning Lori's integrity is not cool.
 
Vietgrlterifa's questioning Lori's integrity is not cool.
Well, the music edit is rather awful. So, if it's not some type of malfeasance, it could be incompetence. Also, both of her programs for Sui and Han are clearly derivative, so there's also the possibility of general laziness.
 
I totally agree...Lori makes the programs she does not train the skaters...Perhaps their is a lot more to add to what we saw as it is taking them longer to do the elements clean so they are leaving artistic touches out for now until they are skating the program stronger. This is very common in figure skating.Vietgrlterifa's questioning Lori's integrity is not cool.

I was not questioning her integrity. If you read Claire's response to me, you'd see we were both tossing out ideas of what may have happened and there wasn't really a disagreement as I'm not married to any idea, but mostly questioning Lori's opportunity to actually work with Sui/Han or if the Chinese Fed came to her in a way that didn't give her much creative freedom. My question about what did they pay Lori for was more about why pay her if they were just going to go with a very similar music edit, borrowed choreography, and elements mismatched to the music? We've seen enough Lori programs to know she does better than that so it must not be all of her work. I also said she seemed most inspired by Peng/Jin at this time, meaning she had been inspired by the others before and possibly will be in the future.
 
I was not questioning her integrity. If you read Claire's response to me, you'd see we were both tossing out ideas of what may have happened and there wasn't really a disagreement as I'm not married to any idea, but mostly questioning Lori's opportunity to actually work with Sui/Han or if the Chinese Fed came to her in a way that didn't give her much creative freedom. My question about what did they pay Lori for was more about why pay her if they were just going to go with a very similar music edit, borrowed choreography, and elements mismatched to the music? We've seen enough Lori programs to know she does better than that so it must not be all of her work. I also said she seemed most inspired by Peng/Jin at this time, meaning she had been inspired by the others before and possibly will be in the future.

I read this article last month when it was published. I also watched S/H's new free and felt concerned, although not overly because programs are supposed to build. The article may provide some insight, for what it's worth. :)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-08/04/c_136499198.htm
 
Have you already seen the programs of D/R and S/M? maybe they are just as bad as S/H programs . For sure T/M´s are not better :slinkaway.
 
Have you already seen the programs of D/R and S/M? maybe they are just as bad as S/H programs . For sure T/M´s are not better :slinkaway.

I have seen the short of D/R so far at summer skate. They normally just use Julie Marcotte for chorea.but have added John Kerr to the mix this year...I have not seen anything of S/M yet. There were no vids from high performance camp for either D/R, I/M or S/B. I/M did their short at one small competition. I think we are going to have to wait for the longs until their first international.
 
Have you already seen the programs of D/R and S/M? maybe they are just as bad as S/H programs . For sure T/M´s are not better :slinkaway.
D&R's SP is just as bad as S&H's. The choreography is more difficult, but the lack of chemistry is still there (for a program clearly about romantic longing), making it a bit more nonsensical.
 
I really hope T/M leave Mozer after this season. Those programs are just awful.
It wasn't Mozer who made the programs though. Everyone here seems to blame Mozer for not loving them enough, but could it be that T/M are choosing the wrong choreographers to work with? Or maybe don't want to travel for choreography abroad so they choose (for any reason) convenience (by choosing someone close but not as great)? The bottom line is, Mozer managed to arrange such an environment that within a few years they progressed from a promising junior to one of the top teams, so she can't be that bad for them. She has no reason to sabotage them because with Stolbova/Klimov having so many injuries, Tarasova/Morozov are the ones that are bringing her the medals.
 
^ I think you raise an excellent point. I've been wondering what is up with this team. Their pair skills are top notch, arguably the best in the world and they have solid skating skills.
I think the blame may be put partly on them.
I just get the feeling that they have no idea who they are. They do not have strong personalities , either one. They just have no real identity.
But I will say that I think Russia has been lacking in good choreography for pairs for a while. S and K have had the best. But they have their own issues.
But T and M seem utterly beige to me when they skate.
They seem to lack passion, drive and presence.
Weird.
 
It wasn't Mozer who made the programs though. Everyone here seems to blame Mozer for not loving them enough, but could it be that T/M are choosing the wrong choreographers to work with? Or maybe don't want to travel for choreography abroad so they choose (for any reason) convenience (by choosing someone close but not as great)? The bottom line is, Mozer managed to arrange such an environment that within a few years they progressed from a promising junior to one of the top teams, so she can't be that bad for them. She has no reason to sabotage them because with Stolbova/Klimov having so many injuries, Tarasova/Morozov are the ones that are bringing her the medals.
But she's the coach, she's the experienced expert. It's not like the program decisions and choreography are made/created in a vacuum without her input. Mozer is the one who has to direct the general program construction in terms of patterns, and the element layout. It doesn't all come from Peter T.

In terms of the programs, the SP is bad because it's safe and generic. The LP, though, shows a questionable taste level bordering on malfeasance. Perhaps it's the language barrier, and no one in the team truly understands the meanings of the songs T&M are skating to.
 
Have you already seen the programs of D/R and S/M? maybe they are just as bad as S/H programs . For sure T/M´s are not better :slinkaway.
I really liked D/R's short (people are free to disagree). I'll wait for better video of S/H's programs to judge. And T/M's ... well that was kind of a given wasn't it?
 
Tarasova/Morozov don't even need good choreography. Just slap some random boring Mozart or Beethoven in the background and let them do their thing? Their programs have just been so actively, vigorously terrible, I refuse to believe someone isn't doing it on purpose.
 
I am disappointed about S/H's music choice. Just how can you choose a piece of music your own coach skated for 16 years ago at the Olympics? He did not skate: This music belongs to him and his former female partner. This is a no go. I do not like these supersafe music choices.

So many warhorses this year.... Goodness.

I believe Sui/Han will not go for the 4STh. They placed the throw too late in the program. Her jump weakneas seems to be serious.
 
Did you promise Aljona and Bruno to tell nobody else about the music, style or elements?
No I did not promise, but as far as they have posted only tiny pieces of video material I'm sure they don't want to show their programs before Nebelhorn, although they look pretty ready. About the elements you can never be sure. They will go for the 3ATh and with those great programs I hope they won't do more technically. If I see the programs of S/H and T/M this should be enough. Not sure about S/K though.
 
I truly think it's a Mozer taste issue.
I don't like T/M's LP, or music cuts or costumes. But the issue is not Mozer's taste.... It is a translation issue.... They though "Candyman" is a song about post WWII American Soda-fountain joint where Girl/Boy are out on a date, and Candy-man serves them ice-cream..

The second they came out on the ice, i had a gut feeling..... they don't know the words to the song......:rofl: and they are thinking "Andrews Sisters costume" on Aguilera...... and itsy bitsy tini wini yellow polka dot bikini.......

https://envisioningtheamericandream.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/coke-soda-fountain-1946.jpg
https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/file...8315238350_60s-50s-fashion7.imgopt1000x70.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/fa/89/1b/fa891b8737c89020e114559b46974b11.jpg

.. it's because of all these old Coca Cola adds that are highly collectable....
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/55/e4/71/...ccab--coca-cola-classic-coca-cola-vintage.jpg
http://www.simplepastimes.com/prod_images_blowup/30cfd4d158.jpg

... i've seen this before.... :D.... Russian performance pieces about post-WWII America have either Andrews Sisters military costumes for women, or polka dots.....:D
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f1/c5/5b/...2b28--sister-costumes-the-andrews-sisters.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/1f/fe/821ffeb50d4cf26ac40f9905dbbe7ba0.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICkWjdQuK7Q
 
I am disappointed about S/H's music choice. Just how can you choose a piece of music your own coach skated for 16 years ago at the Olympics? He did not skate: This music belongs to him and his former female partner. This is a no go. I do not like these supersafe music choices.

....Given how things work within the Chinese Federation, what makes you so sure that it was Sui/Han and not Hongbo Zhao that picked the music?
 
No I did not promise, but as far as they have posted only tiny pieces of video material I'm sure they don't want to show their programs before Nebelhorn, although they look pretty ready. About the elements you can never be sure. They will go for the 3ATh and with those great programs I hope they won't do more technically. If I see the programs of S/H and T/M this should be enough. Not sure about S/K though.
Oh. I am sure the quad twist and the 3ATh will be part of the FS. Not sure about the 4STh. Aljona has overrotated almost every 3STh so far and the BV is 3.7 points higher. I think she would like to go for it.
 
....Given how things work within the Chinese Federation, what makes you so sure that it was Sui/Han and not Hongbo Zhao that picked the music?
I am sure the Chinese Federation made this decision as a team. Nevertheless I am disappointed.
 

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