1999 Cup of Russia - Lifetime

Frau Muller

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Man, that Lifetime production was such a tabloid. I don't know if it's good for the sport's image if NBC were to recreate that, but it's certainly fun for us fans to hear skaters bitching or being snarky so openly in front of the camera like that. Maybe it's about balance and we need a bit of that but also a bit of professionalism.
I loved those shows...still have them on DVD (transferred from my original tapes). Andrea Joyce was a hoot! I remember that Moskvina (with B/S) figured prominently in them...especially a time when (CORRECTION) moody Berezhnaia had disappeared the day of the LP practice and Sikharulidze wasn’t sure if his partner would be back in time for the free skate. That was at Skate Canada.
 
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Limonite

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I'm assuming this is what you are referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SmKjZy-MqE
Sikharulidze's explosive temper was well known. Even Tamara Moskvina has talked about it in some interviews. IIRC, after their disastrous short program at 1999 Skate Canada, he went backstage and threw his shirt in a trash can... then went after Elena, yelling at her. The next day she skipped practice session and Anton was all by himself. Berezhnaya was known for her calm behavior, but that day I think Anton went too far.
 
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Frau Muller

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Andrea Joyce is still around. NBCSN or OC should contract her to produce Pairs and Dance shows today. The story of the Knierims and Aliona this fall...that would’ve been great.

Hey, even Moskvina is back. The time is ripe.
 

3T3T

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I'm assuming this is what you are referring to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SmKjZy-MqE
I was actually expecting to see a full blown meltdown so am a bit disappointed. The editing, commentary and choice of music was superb on that piece. It was all drama, drama, drama 😂😂😂. It sounded as if they were about to split. Moskvina was very honest with the reporter, great to see her sill going strong 20 years later.

I never knew Anton had a temper, I always though they got on really well, particularly after her issues with Shliakov. I suppose having disagreements or arguments are part of the process I guess.

I just checked the results for SC99 and the results they won both segments. If they had an error ridden short what did the rest deliver?
 
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I just checked the results for SC99 and the results they won both segments. If they had an error ridden short what did the rest deliver?
Thanks to Hyacinth B, I did a very quick re watch as I had 30 minutes to kill. I vaguely remember some controversy that B/S were held up.

1. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze: she fell on the 3toe, aborted the lift, they almost missed the pairs spin but managed to salvage it.

2. Sargeant/Wirtz: she fell on the 3toe, he had a hand down on the 3toe, awesome sbs spins!
Debbi Wilkes and Rod Black were IRATE they didn't win the SP and were demanding an inquiry into the results. They only had one first place ordinal over B/S from the RUS judge and were closer to finishing in 4th place for the SP than they were first. :scream:

3. Pang/Tong: she fell hard on the SBS spins. Throw and 3toes were great.

4. Ina/Zimmerman: she did a 2toe, he fell out of his 3toe, he had a very slight trip in the footwork

5. Obertas/Palamarchuk: not shown, but Debbi mentioned they got a first place ordinal.

6. Saurette/Fectau: OMGZ they were total Sargeant/Wirtz clones! :scream:

7. Larivière/Faustino: she stepped out of the 3toe, fall out of throw 3loop, totally biffed the pairs spin
Debbi was very upset with the 3.6 from the American judge and then compares them to B/S? :rofl: I love her so much.

I do think B/S's required elements scores were too high. My first impression is that I easily would have had I/Z in first-- that was a fantastic, confident, modern program. Pang/Tong clearly 2nd, some of their pairs elements were still veery basic at this point. Then B/S third based on a big presentation advantage over S/W.
 

gk_891

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Riverdance did help them stand out. Irish step dancing was new for ice dance, though the aforementioned Moniotte/Lavanchy also did a riverdance FD in the 1998 season. I'll forgive B/K the side-by-side dancing in the free because that fit the style of dance they were translating to the ice.
I guess that's your prerogative. But from the way I look at it, respecting and expressing the theme of the dance is only one aspect of ice dance and figure skating in general. The quality of the actual skating is IMO more important.

When it comes to ice dance programs and themes, whether the dance be a tango, cha cha, quickstep, waltz, etc., the dances need to be reimagined and reconstructed to a degree so that it's an actual ice dance program and not a dance program on top of an ice surface. Yes, it's a challenge to do that while maintaining the character and spirit of the dance because Irish riverdancing is often danced side by side. But it seems like Dubova and B&K didn't even try. Skaters need to show mastery of skating within difficult handholds and both partners need to skate as closely together as possible to show how integrated they are with one another. Their Riverdance FD demonstrated none of that.
 

gkelly

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Thanks to Hyacinth B, I did a very quick re watch as I had 30 minutes to kill. I vaguely remember some controversy that B/S were held up.
Thanks for summarizing the performances and some of the scores.

If I recall, B&S won the short with a majority of 2nds (and probably not unanimously at least 2nd either). It's not that most judges thought they should have won, but they couldn't agree on how to rank the other skaters either.
 

RFOS

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Here are the marks I copied from either the Canadian or US broadcasts of the 1999 Skate Canada SP because I was bored (all teams were shown on one or the other) and the ordinals I calculated:

1st place ordinals were 3 B&S, 2 I&Z, 2 P&T, 1 S&W, 1 O&P.

B&S did have a majority of 5 2nds. I believe the OBO system was used this season, but the order would've been the same under the majority system.

1. Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze 5/2 TOM 7
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
4.8 5.2 4.3 5.0 4.7 4.8 4.8 4.9 4.9
5.3 5.7 5.4 5.6 5.7 5.6 5.6 5.6 5.6
10.1 10.9 9.7 10.6 10.4 10.4 10.4 10.5 10.5
3 1 5 1 3 3 2 2 1

2. Sargeant/Wirtz 5/2 TOM 9
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
4.6 5.2 4.7 5.0 4.9 4.9 4.7 5.1 4.9
5.4 5.5 5.1 5.4 5.4 5.4 5.4 5.5 5.5
10.0 10.7 9.8 10.4 10.3 10.3 10.1 10.6 10.4
4 2 2 2 4 5 4 1 2

3. Pang/Tong 6/3
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
5.2 4.9 4.9 5.0 5.2 5.2 4.8 4.8 5.1
5.2 5.2 4.8 5.3 5.2 5.3 5.0 5.4 5.2
10.4 10.1 9.7 10.3 10.4 10.5 9.8 10.2 10.3
1 5 3 3 2 1 5 6 3

4. Ina/Zimmerman 5/3
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
4.8 5.3 4.5 4.9 5.0 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.8
5.0 5.3 5.2 5.1 5.6 5.4 5.4 5.4 5.4
9.8 10.6 9.7 10.0 10.6 10.4 10.4 10.4 10.2
6 3 4 5 1 2 1 3 6

5. Obertas/Palamarchuk 6/4
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
5.0 5.2 5.1 5.0 4.8 5.2 5.2 5.1 4.7
4.9 5.1 5.0 5.2 5.0 5.1 5.1 5.1 4.9
9.9 10.3 10.1 10.2 9.8 10.3 10.3 10.2 9.6
5 4 1 4 5 4 3 4 7

6. Saurette/Fecteau 8/6
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
5.0 4.8 4.0 4.6 4.7 4.8 3.9 4.9 5.0
5.3 5.2 4.7 5.1 4.7 5.2 4.5 5.3 5.3
10.3 10.0 8.7 9.7 9.4 10.0 8.4 10.2 10.3
2 6 6 6 6 6 8 5 5

7. Stiegler/Stiegler 9/7
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
4.2 4.6 3.8 4.4 4.3 4.6 4.6 4.7 5.1
4.9 4.9 4.9 5.0 4.9 5.0 5.2 5.2 5.2
9.1 9.5 8.7 9.4 9.2 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.3
7 7 7 7 7 7 6 7 3

8. Lariviere/Faustino 9/8
HUN CHN USA UKR GBR CAN ITA RUS GER
3.9 4.2 3.6 4.1 3.8 4.4 4.4 4.4 4.4
4.9 4.6 4.6 5.0 4.6 5.1 4.8 5.0 4.9
8.8 8.8 8.2 9.1 8.4 9.5 9.2 9.4 9.3
8 8 8 8 8 8 7 8 8
 
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Aerobicidal

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I was too busy to watch this earlier in the week. I was going to post that I would probably not watch, but now I have decided to watch.

Fifteen minutes in, this is fabulous! It predates when I started following skating by almost ten years, so it's a luscious time capsule with highlights that are amazing:

Margaglio doing Tae Bo/tai chi style warm-ups in a hideous oversized Gap sweatshirt.

Babs looking older than she does now and wearing some kind of cotton candy fringe disaster for the OD while . . .

. . . Margaglio is wearing a flowing black top with the number 23 on the back--is he trying to assert he's the Michael Jackson of inferior ice dance partners?!?!?

Dubova with quotes worthy of Ivana Komova.

Johnnie Stiegler's boy band hair that made me google to see what he looks like today, which . . . I won't say anything about that one. Look for yourself if you care.

So excited to have some more beers as I watch the next hour!!!!!!!
 
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ere are the marks I copied from either the Canadian or US broadcasts of the 1999 Skate Canada SP because I was bored (all teams were shown on one or the other) and the ordinals I calculated:
I love it. Thanks for doing this. FSU is definitely the internet's definitive source for 1999 Grand Prix analysis. :rofl:

Interestingly enough, the judges for the top 5 couples (Russia, Canada, China, USA, Ukraine) all ranked their skaters lower than the rest of the panel and their final placement. :eek: How often does that happen!?

Russian judge went: 1. CAN, 2. RUS, 3. USA, 4. UKR, 5. CAN2, 6. CHN
Canadian judge went: 1. CHN, 2. USA, 3. RUS, 4. UKR, 5. CAN (sorry, but this makes Debbi and Rod look kinda foolish, 19 years later :p )
Chinese judge: 1. RUS, 2. CAN, 3. USA, 4. UKR, 5. CHN
American judge: 1. UKR, 2. CHN, 3. CAN, 4. USA, 5. RUS
Ukrainian judge: 1. RUS, 2. CAN, 3. CHN, 4. UKR, 5. USA


Johnnie Stiegler's boy band hair that made me google to see what he looks like today, which . . . I won't say anything about that one. Look for yourself if you care.
Stiegler was such a gem in this Lifetime production. It's not really what he said but how he said it and how he looked at the time.
I have to admit I found him really charming here; I have such a weakness for horrible late 90s hair, even today. :scream: And yes, I already looked him up today because I wanted to see if he still had blonde highlights. I was disappointed. :drama:

So excited to have some more beers as I watch the next hour!!!!!!!
Save B/K's FD for right before you want to fall asleep. :yawn: Same for Nowak/Kowalsinki's FD, but at least that gives me a craving for sherbet.
 
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Finally watching the rest of the FDs tonight and I am really enjoying Semonovich/Kostormorov's FD. I thought it easily could have been 3rd or even 2nd in the FD, but I might be biased due to the voiceovers, Fear/Gibson-esque dance moves, and incredible music selection ("Don't Go Away" by Sweetbox, which is sure to join "Color of the Night" as one of my all-time favorite music discoveries thanks to skating).

I remember we were trying to figure out the first "rap" program here a while ago-- is this it?

Also it's too bad Semonovich went the pop star route because I think she could have had a real future in dance.
 
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my little pony

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I know I watched this when it was on but I remember none of it.

Was anyone else shocked by the # of 1st place ordinals B/K got? for me the suspense was would they hold on to second. I can't believe how close it was. also, were D/L ever held down as the 2nd place CAN team or were they legit not as good as B/K by the standards of the day?
 

pat c

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D&L's coaches retired and they moved to France to be with Zazoui. They had a bad year in 02-03 - their fd music was called dance with my heart. (I personally want those 4 minutes of my life back watching that live in Que City). I think they had the skill or were certainly catching up but they had some bad music choices. They'd knock it out of the park one year like with Life is Beautiful and then skate to Titus the next year. Finally they found Somewhere in Time and then At Last the next year. Injuries/bad music choices/costume disasters. They had it all. ;)
 

gk_891

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I know I watched this when it was on but I remember none of it.

Was anyone else shocked by the # of 1st place ordinals B/K got? for me the suspense was would they hold on to second. I can't believe how close it was. also, were D/L ever held down as the 2nd place CAN team or were they legit not as good as B/K by the standards of the day?
Reputation and past results matter in skating, especially ice dance. For example, looking back it's almost shocking how superior Anissina & Peizerat are to Bourne & Kraatz. They skate far closer together and their programs are much more ambitious. But losing to them at the 1996 Worlds (in Canada) cemented B&K's place above them for a while until 1998. Even though it shouldn't have been close, the marks and ordinals were still very close between them that year even though they had no business being that close. I also think A&P were far superior to Krylova & Ovsiannikov during that time but since K&O were the second team in the world, they stayed behind them.

I also think that's why Grishuk & Platov were kept behind Usova & Zhulin in 1992 and 1993 and arguably the same with Blumberg & Seibert who were often behind Bestemianova & Bukin from 1982 to 1984. With the latter teams, I think finishing behind B&B at the 1981 Worlds due to their freak fall set the tone for B&S to stay ranked behind.
 
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Andora

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D&L's coaches retired and they moved to France to be with Zazoui. They had a bad year in 02-03 - their fd music was called dance with my heart. (I personally want those 4 minutes of my life back watching that live in Que City). I think they had the skill or were certainly catching up but they had some bad music choices. They'd knock it out of the park one year like with Life is Beautiful and then skate to Titus the next year. Finally they found Somewhere in Time and then At Last the next year. Injuries/bad music choices/costume disasters. They had it all. ;)
I loved Dance With My Heart. :lol: I still think it's a beautiful program. But certainly polarizing!

You could say that about most of their FD's, though - not just hit and miss, but really polarizing and not always for the better. Their 2004/2005 FD was not a good look, though the commentator mention's Patrice had a familial link to the program's theme. It also reminded me that I found their skating heavier than others. Not currently sure how to better explain that.

Phenomenal lifts throughout their career, though. Compared to B&K, it was like night and day. I wasn't crazy about "Titus" either, but I still remember the lifts from it. Risky, too - calling to mind their fall in the final lift during the OD in Torino They were so good during that season!
 

pat c

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I loved Dance With My Heart. :lol: I still think it's a beautiful program. But certainly polarizing!

You could say that about most of their FD's, though - not just hit and miss, but really polarizing and not always for the better. Their 2004/2005 FD was not a good look, though the commentator mention's Patrice had a familial link to the program's theme. It also reminded me that I found their skating heavier than others. Not currently sure how to better explain that.

Phenomenal lifts throughout their career, though. Compared to B&K, it was like night and day. I wasn't crazy about "Titus" either, but I still remember the lifts from it. Risky, too - calling to mind their fall in the final lift during the OD in Torino They were so good during that season!
I think the heaviness is the deliberateness they used in their steps that went with the music, a style choice. Then in 05-06 it all came together and then the olympics, which seemed to be their nemesis. D&L gelled more and more as the years went on. B&K lost themselves. I've often wondered if they shouldn't have stayed either Ueschi Kesler or K&P. They really seemed to have lost their focus or whatever you want to call it. c'est la guerre.
 

meggonzo

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Finally watching the rest of the FDs tonight and I am really enjoying Semonovich/Kostormorov's FD. I thought it easily could have been 3rd or even 2nd in the FD, but I might be biased due to the voiceovers, Fear/Gibson-esque dance moves, and incredible music selection ("Don't Go Away" by Sweetbox, which is sure to join "Color of the Night" as one of my all-time favorite music discoveries thanks to skating).

I remember we were trying to figure out the first "rap" program here a while ago-- is this it?

Also it's too bad Semonovich went the pop star route because I think she could have had a real future in dance.
I started laughing when they did the "dance moves". It was ridiculous, yet amazing.
 

Maximillian

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Oh gosh, I remember seeing D&L live at 2001 GPF and they were painfully slow, and outside of the lifts looked really in over their heads compared to the rest of the field which included B&K.
 

aliceanne

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I was actually expecting to see a full blown meltdown so am a bit disappointed. The editing, commentary and choice of music was superb on that piece. It was all drama, drama, drama 😂😂😂. It sounded as if they were about to split. Moskvina was very honest with the reporter, great to see her sill going strong 20 years later.

I never knew Anton had a temper, I always though they got on really well, particularly after her issues with Shliakov. I suppose having disagreements or arguments are part of the process I guess.

I just checked the results for SC99 and the results they won both segments. If they had an error ridden short what did the rest deliver?
I seem to remember a competition where Berezhnaya and partner skated poorly and her partner walked out in huff and left her alone in the Kiss and Cry. I’m pretty sure it was Berezhnaya because I remember the fluff piece was about her getting the blade in the head on a side by side camel from a previous partner, and her long uncertain recovery.

She certainly had a drama-filled career.
 
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Limonite

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I seem to remember a competition where Berezhnaya and partner skated poorly and her partner walked out in huff and left her alone in the Kiss and Cry. I’m pretty sure it was Berezhnaya because I remember the fluff piece was about her getting the blade in the head on a side by side camel from a previous partner, and the her long uncertain recovery.

She certainly had a drama-filled career.
That happened at the 1997 Worlds. They were 3rd after the short program and then skated so bad in the long program that they ended up in 9th place. IMO, the biggest meltdown of their career.
 

aliceanne

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That happened at the 1997 Worlds. They were 3rd after the short program and then skated so bad in the long program that they ended up in 9th place. IMO, the biggest meltdown of their career.
Was she with Sikharulidze then? I thought he was supposed to be so supportive.
 

Limonite

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Yes, she was with Sikharulidze at the 1997 Worlds. Elena and Oleg Shliakhov competed until late 1995. She had the accident in January 1996, and started to compete with Anton in the fall of that year.

IMO, Anton was a great partner; he even help her during her recovery. Some people say he did it because he wanted to get a good skating partner, but don't think that was the case because at the time they didn't even know if she was going to be back on the ice. Anton had an explosive temper, but I don't think it was anything like Shliakhov.
 

SmallFairy

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I got the impression (I guess from Brennan's books, that Anton had a temper, but more like "young people temper". He seemed to take care good care of Elena. Of course, as any youngster, he needed some guidance, and got it from Moskvina. I remember reading that Moskina told him when he and Elena started skating together: "This is your crystal vase. It has been broken once, so you must be extra careful with it" ;)
 

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