1999 Cup of Russia - Lifetime

Erin

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Yes, I believe they were out with her surgery, but I think falling convincingly behind D/V as well, who would later win bronze at Worlds and IIRC K/O still being a question mark as to whether they’d show up to compete, that had to help with the timing of the surgery. Maybe it really just fell into place in that time period.
Bad vehicles aside, in retrospect I wouldn’t be surprised Shae-Lynn’s knee had something to do with why they regressed so much and why their programs were so open. (Although Latin was bound to be bad for them no matter what, as that was not their style)

Now that aside, as much as I loved B&K back in the day, a lot of their programs and skating in general didn’t age very well when watching them now.
 

Andora

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Their 1999 FD seemed more-or-less the same as it was earlier in the season except they made the typical minor changes for Worlds to help the program flow better.
Oh? I'll have to go back and watch - I wasn't crazy about the program then or now. I listened to a discussion on how they joined the list of skaters Dean was annoyed with because that they stripped content out - in this case, to help Shae's injury.

I effing LOVED that High Society free dance in 1997. I still have it memorized. :lol:
Me too! I still go back and watch the "Champion Series Final" (lol, pre-GPF) version when they beat K&O in Hamilton.
 

Yehudi

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The American Ice Dance commentators of that time actually were not as enamored of B/K as their colleagues. I remember Judy Blumberg ripping apart both their jive and Riverdance at 1998 worlds.
 

JoannaLouise

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I LOVE this! 1998-1999 was right around the time when I started watching skating like an obsessed maniac, so this is basically a time capsule of my early adolescence.

I have the house to myself tonight. I am going to have a drink or several and relive some late-90s Ice Dance Drama (TM).
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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Oh? I'll have to go back and watch - I wasn't crazy about the program then or now. I listened to a discussion on how they joined the list of skaters Dean was annoyed with because that they stripped content out - in this case, to help Shae's injury.
I just watched the Canadian Nationals version and the Worlds version and they are very similar except with a few minor differences and B/K skated it a lot faster and with more conviction and way better costumes at Worlds. They had a slight error on the second to last lift. Whatever changes they made to the routine for Worlds I think helped it flow and let them skate with more speed and non-stop action compared to a posy section in the middle.
 

ryanj07

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Oh? I'll have to go back and watch - I wasn't crazy about the program then or now. I listened to a discussion on how they joined the list of skaters Dean was annoyed with because that they stripped content out - in this case, to help Shae's injury.



Me too! I still go back and watch the "Champion Series Final" (lol, pre-GPF) version when they beat K&O in Hamilton.
Count me in as another one that loved their High Society program! I remember Krylova shaking her head when the scores came up
at the Champion Series Final and B/K won :lol:
 

Andora

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I just watched the Canadian Nationals version and the Worlds version and they are very similar except with a few minor differences and B/K skated it a lot faster and with more conviction and way better costumes at Worlds. They had a slight error on the second to last lift. Whatever changes they made to the routine for Worlds I think helped it flow and let them skate with more speed and non-stop action compared to a posy section in the middle.
I'm halfway through comparing 1998 Skate Canada to Worlds. I completely agree that it was well-skated at worlds (despite the error), but I someone explained soon after that they finally skated it well when they took out a lot of choreography. Maybe even on FSW. :lol: I still think they did drop a fair bit, comparing the two so far, but correctly so.

SUCH a shift from 1999-2000...
 

alchemy void

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One thing I'm realizing is how much extra $$$$ these must have cost Lifetime to produce, with all the interviews, backstage shots, not to mention actually flying a crew on location to achieve all this extra content. Certainly more expensive than Tara and Johnny doing commentary over the ISU feed. :lol:

I totally love this camera angle, directly behind the judges; I can't remember seeing ever this perspective.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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I'm halfway through comparing 1998 Skate Canada to Worlds. I completely agree that it was well-skated at worlds (despite the error), but I someone explained soon after that they finally skated it well when they took out a lot of choreography. Maybe even on FSW. :lol: I still think they did drop a fair bit, comparing the two so far, but correctly so.

SUCH a shift from 1999-2000...
I should have watched the GP version, :lol:. I got lazy.
 

gk_891

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The American Ice Dance commentators of that time actually were not as enamored of B/K as their colleagues. I remember Judy Blumberg ripping apart both their jive and Riverdance at 1998 worlds.
It was divine to finally hear a commentator call B&K out for their lack of content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17KVjJJpups

I just wish someone did the same when it came to their second-rate compulsories at the Olympics that year. I know ISU Vice President Lawrence Demmy did just that but his statement got almost completely ignored by the media.
 

3T3T

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I enjoyed seeing Petrova/Tikhonov skating their Four Seasons. It seemed to be their default programme, they skated to it a good few years. I always liked this couple they were kinda dumped by the judges around SLC but fought back to the worlds podium. They could have got an Olympic medal in Turin but after a great short they had a poor free.

I can’t believe how unsporting Bourne/Kraatz were. They come across as bitter and unlikeable. It was everyone else’s fault.
 

alchemy void

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I enjoyed seeing Petrova/Tikhonov skating their Four Seasons. It seemed to be their default programme, they skated to it a good few years.
Yeah. They skated Four Seasons forever and I was never a big fan of that program...I didn't really enjoy P/T until 02-06 quad, when I barely watched skating anyways. But seeing their performance here a for the first time in ages, their skating does hold up quite well (aside from that twist).
 

gk_891

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I enjoyed seeing Petrova/Tikhonov skating their Four Seasons. It seemed to be their default programme, they skated to it a good few years. I always liked this couple they were kinda dumped by the judges around SLC but fought back to the worlds podium. They could have got an Olympic medal in Turin but after a great short they had a poor free.

I can’t believe how unsporting Bourne/Kraatz were. They come across as bitter and unlikeable. It was everyone else’s fault.
They were deluded about their actual abilities and were bitter when it all didn't play out the way they thought it should've. I guess when your own media hypes you up to be the best thing since sliced bread, delusions are bound to happen. Dubova should've kept them in check but she had become deluded herself over the years.
 

Habs

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Dubova should've kept them in check but she had become deluded herself over the years.
IMHO, Dubova was the primary cause of the “we wuz robbed” attitude. B&K weren’t like that before Dubova, and they seemed to shake it after they left her.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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From what I observed at the time, it seemed the Western media (ramped up after Nagano), the Canadian Fed, and their diehard fans were right there with them in their delusion.
 

Tony Wheeler

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From what I observed at the time, it seemed the Western media (ramped up after Nagano), the Canadian Fed, and their diehard fans were right there with them in their delusion.
There was also the Canadian Open in late 1998 where B/K reprised Riverdance and their music was, IIRC, played too quickly and the deduction for it being under the required time made them lose to the brand new team of Usova/Platov— at home. All of these supposed ‘scandals’ and the North American media covering it like everything was so unfair to them (aside from Judy Blumberg) didn’t help B/K’s case at all in my young eyes, and it seems many others here felt the same.

I still am also puzzled about the Nagano whistleblowing and how the Canadian judge came forward after the fact like she was saving the sport.
 

PRlady

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I dunno. I didn’t know squat about ice dance twenty years ago, and I remember the whole wuzzrobbing after Nagano, and I still thought A/P deserved the bronze. (I may already have fallen in love with Gwendol, though.)

Having now watched both the Lifetime pairs and dance and then the singles coverage from that event, some random thoughts:

1. FP/M dragged the floor with B/K

2. Plushenko had a lot more content in his program than I remember

3. Petrova/Tikhonov were actually pretty good.

4. The Russian girls were not in the same universe with the current crop. I mean, Soldatova. Really?

5. 6.0 programs were generally not so good, except for dance which had its good points.
 

VIETgrlTerifa

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The Latin dances overall that season must have been really awful if FP/M's OD was the best of the bunch. I'm just talking about dancing to the rhythm. Maybe all the teams were just ill-equipped to dance that way. I do remember thinking Marina/Gwendal weren't too bad as I felt Marina had the right body movements but apparently everyone that season thought it was worse than FP/M's program.
 

essence_of_soy

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Yeah. They skated Four Seasons forever and I was never a big fan of that program...I didn't really enjoy P/T until 02-06 quad, when I barely watched skating anyways. But seeing their performance here a for the first time in ages, their skating does hold up quite well (aside from that twist).
Petrova and Tikhanov suffered from extreme Vivaldi-itis. Meaning, they skated to The Four Seasons, for well, four seasons.
 

alchemy void

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4. The Russian girls were not in the same universe with the current crop. I mean, Soldatova. Really?
Watch out, Soldatova has her ubers here. attn: @SmallFairy :lol:

The Stieglers' short looked rough. :eek:

Anyone else notice the team in 3rd after the Pairs short was Savchenko & Morozov? I found a video of their long program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdn3j6PPraY
19 years later she wins Olympic gold. What a legend. :respec: And I like that they’re skating to Tonya Harding’s music here too.

And while the Stieglers were a hot mess here, I quite enjoyed Johnnie’s insights. :lol:

I looked them up on Wikipedia because I was curious as to how the rest of their career played out, and see they went back to the Junior Grand Prix (and qualified for the JGP Final) four years after this, in 2003! :huh:

All of these supposed ‘scandals’ and the North American media covering it like everything was so unfair to them (aside from Judy Blumberg)
While CBS and Tracy Wilson were very-pro B/K, and played up the victim angle, ABC/ESPN were much less so. You already mentioned Blumberg, but Dick Button, while still being nice to B/K, also clearly thought A/P deserved to beat them, despite constant prodding from Terry Gannon. In fact, 5 seconds into A/P’s FD at 98 Worlds, he calls their Romeo and Juliet “one of the great ice dances of all time.” :eek: He does not make the same claim for B/K.

I could talk about ice dancing from the late 90s and early 00s all day, but haven’t been able to get into dance much in at least 10 years. Sigh.
 

Andora

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While CBS and Tracy Wilson were very-pro B/K, and played up the victim angle, ABC/ESPN were much less so. You already mentioned Blumberg, but Dick Button, while still being nice to B/K, also clearly thought A/P deserved to beat them, despite constant prodding from Terry Gannon. In fact, 5 seconds into A/P’s FD at 98 Worlds, he calls their Romeo and Juliet “one of the great ice dances of all time.” :eek: He does not make the same claim for B/K.

I could talk about ice dancing from the late 90s and early 00s all day, but haven’t been able to get into dance much in at least 10 years. Sigh.
B&K sure took a stupid turn in 1998. I think Tracey was right in 1997 when she talked about how they improved to really win their bronze that year, as opposed to squeaking it out at home in 1996. But then they thought Riverdance would help them stand out, and that was a tragic misfire. A&P had the best free dance that year, bar none, despite it not moving for almost a minute at the start.

I do remember Wilson trying to explain at Worlds or maybe the GPF (definitely not Skate Canada or nationals) that their program did have more side by side skating than the other top teams, but it didn't catch on in Canada. Once the "whistleblowing" came out, it was like no one could listen to reason about it. But still, losing a compulsory to L&A? That was pretty rude. :p A&P could/should have rightfully won bronze (or silver, imho) without that. :lol:

My biggest takeaway was how razor sharp Maurizio's cheekbones were. No need for contouring or highlighter with these bad boys.
He really looked the part of a villain back in the day. And yet even hamming it up for Lifetime, he comes across so likeable and fun.
 

meggonzo

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19 years later she wins Olympic gold. What a legend. :respec: And I like that they’re skating to Tonya Harding’s music here too.
Yes, I had to queue up 91 Skate America after that! :lol: I should look for the video of Navka & Gezalian from 91 SKAM as well - another one that won Olympics many years later with a different partner.
 

gk_891

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Yes, I had to queue up 91 Skate America after that! :lol: I should look for the video of Navka & Gezalian from 91 SKAM as well - another one that won Olympics many years later with a different partner.
Here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUu1QS3nvog

And here's other early vids of navka with Gezalian

1993 Worlds FD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXZVCBhCiC8

1994 Olympic OD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8q2uIw_NN0

1994 Worlds FD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPujutTOIGs

I have a soft spot for Navka back when she trained with Dubova. It's funny because I could barely tolerate her with either Morozov or Kostomarov.
 

gk_891

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B&K sure took a stupid turn in 1998. I think Tracey was right in 1997 when she talked about how they improved to really win their bronze that year, as opposed to squeaking it out at home in 1996. But then they thought Riverdance would help them stand out, and that was a tragic misfire. A&P had the best free dance that year, bar none, despite it not moving for almost a minute at the start.

I do remember Wilson trying to explain at Worlds or maybe the GPF (definitely not Skate Canada or nationals) that their program did have more side by side skating than the other top teams, but it didn't catch on in Canada. Once the "whistleblowing" came out, it was like no one could listen to reason about it. But still, losing a compulsory to L&A? That was pretty rude. :p A&P could/should have rightfully won bronze (or silver, imho) without that. :lol:



He really looked the part of a villain back in the day. And yet even hamming it up for Lifetime, he comes across so likeable and fun.
I also thought that A&P deserved silver in Nagano. Even though they skated a tight and nervous free dance, it was so much more ambitious that K&O's Carmen. K&O's Carmen had absolutely atrocious choreography.

ETA - Forgot to mention this earlier but it's understandable as to why B&K placed behind L&A in the Golden Waltz CD. They made 3 errors in that dance.
 
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her grace

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I can’t believe how unsporting Bourne/Kraatz were. They come across as bitter and unlikeable. It was everyone else’s fault.
I wonder if because the results were more lockstep back in the day, they were surprised that they made the podium and then were pushed off by a new team. OTOH, the teams who usually made the world podium and never left (and continued to higher steps on the podium as teams above them retired) were Russians. B/K should've known that teams who earned bronze didn't always stay there, e.g., France's Moniotte/Lavanchy who had won bronze the year before B/K first did at worlds (out with injury in 1996 when B/K won their first bronze). And, of course, once France switched horses from Moniotte/Lavanchy to the stronger Anissina/Peizerat, B/K's podium spot was in even more danger. ETA: And also once you moved down, there wasn't much precedent for coming back up so B/K might have tried to change the "we're slipping into the abyss" narrative into "the judges just didn't recognize how much greater we are and once they come to their senses, we'll be back where we belong." The Eurosport commentator from the M/L clip below even states "In ice dancing, if you go down a place, you might as well get in the box and die gracefully, really."

B&K sure took a stupid turn in 1998. I think Tracey was right in 1997 when she talked about how they improved to really win their bronze that year, as opposed to squeaking it out at home in 1996. But then they thought Riverdance would help them stand out, and that was a tragic misfire. A&P had the best free dance that year, bar none, despite it not moving for almost a minute at the start.
Riverdance did help them stand out. Irish step dancing was new for ice dance, though the aforementioned Moniotte/Lavanchy also did a riverdance FD in the 1998 season. I'll forgive B/K the side-by-side dancing in the free because that fit the style of dance they were translating to the ice. The lack of technical content in the OD was inexcusable, however. Looking back, I think the judges in 1998 got it right between B/K and A/P. A/P rightly built up a lead at the Olympics so even though their FD was tight and they justifiably lost that portion to B/K's dynamic, innovative FD, they earn the bronze. Then at worlds where A/P perform so much better in the FD, they rightly defeat B/K in the FD and overall.

I'll sheepishly admit that at the time, I got swept up in the Nagano B/K was robbed narrative. :duh: And I'm glad I went back and rewatched the 1998 Olympics and Worlds because 1) I hadn't seen A/P's worlds FD, which was amazing! 2) all that Western B/K wuz robbed BS obscured the difference in technical difficulty between the teams and minimized A/P's innovation, too. Those genderbending lifts were just as innovative as B/K's hydroblading.

But back to the Lifetime coverage, I really liked seeing the side-by-side images of the rotational lifts and step sequences. Great for comparing teams and would love to see that used again in replays.
 

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