1998 Olympic SP: Surya vs Irina

Surya vs Irina, who wins?


  • Total voters
    38

Marco

Well-Known Member
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14,691
Let’s be real, both of them would have an argument over Lu Chen’s SP given her UR on her Lutz and her low quality spins. And I love Lu Chen.

True - despite a clean program, Lulu could potentially receive up to:

-0.2 for telegraphing and rotation on the lutz (I personally wouldn't have deducted),
-0.2 for the pause before the 3toe,
-0.1 for lack of rev on layback (I rewatched many times and can't decide, but it was a beautiful spin),
-0.1 for the spirals if you feel stingy (I personally wouldn't have deducted),
-0.1 for the steps for starting too late off the end of the rink (I personally wouldn't have deducted),
-0.1 for telegraphing the 2axel (I personally wouldn't have deducted),
-0.1 for the travel on the final combo spin.

Presentation wise I would be OK with 5.8 or even 5.9.
 

NAOTMAA

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805
Really? I love all her amateur programs very much, and think she's a little underrated in general. But the only memory I have of her is a pro is her "skating" to Peel Me a Grape with very little content or much skating, but a prop of a tray of grapes.

I remember the tray of grapes too!!! :lol:

I swear one of the reasons skating popularity declined wasn't just the over exposure or natural decline back to pre-wack standing but the fact that it felt like skaters just kept doing the same programs over and over and over, year after year after year :eek: Was it really that hard for some of them to come up with something new every once and a while?
 

tony

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8,038
I know that she was dealing with injury after Nagano, but Chen was shockingly bad in her late-1998 competition appearances as a new pro. I remember watching the Grand Slam thing, which I believe was the first event that season, and she made it to the later rounds without landing any triples and barely having spins/content in her program. She should’ve been a distant last place probably but managed 3rd over skaters like Sato, Chouinard, and Kadavy in the first round. And in the years following, she just never really got it back. I don’t think any of her pro programs were anywhere near special or memorable.

Having said that, I don’t really have qualms with her Olympic bronze, even if it was the most narrow of wins over my all-time favorite Butyrskaya. She really stole the show with that captivating performance.
 

Fiero425

Well-Known Member
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2,090
I know that she was dealing with injury after Nagano, but Chen was shockingly bad in her late-1998 competition appearances as a new pro. I remember watching the Grand Slam thing, which I believe was the first event that season, and she made it to the later rounds without landing any triples and barely having spins/content in her program. She should’ve been a distant last place probably but managed 3rd over skaters like Sato, Chouinard, and Kadavy in the first round. And in the years following, she just never really got it back. I don’t think any of her pro programs were anywhere near special or memorable.

Having said that, I don’t really have qualms with her Olympic bronze, even if it was the most narrow of wins over my all-time favorite Butyrskaya. She really stole the show with that captivating performance.

That seems to happen to some skaters; maybe not as dedicated to practice! I remember Tonia Kwiatkowski after she left amateur ranks in '98 and she couldn't stay on her feet either! Skating was so big after Harding drama; loved those Fox Sports Figure Skating extravaganzas with all the top skaters! Skating hasn't been the same since! We're lucky to get major events televised! ;-)
 

gkelly

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15,483
Having said that, I don’t really have qualms with her Olympic bronze, even if it was the most narrow of wins over my all-time favorite Butyrskaya. She really stole the show with that captivating performance.

How about her other Olympic bronze?
 

Erin

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9,901
How about her other Olympic bronze?

I feel like that one you could argue she could have beat both the actual gold and silver medallists in the free (although also an argument to put her behind Sato in the free, but still ahead overall).
 

casken

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10,711
That seems to happen to some skaters; maybe not as dedicated to practice! I remember Tonia Kwiatkowski after she left amateur ranks in '98 and she couldn't stay on her feet either! Skating was so big after Harding drama; loved those Fox Sports Figure Skating extravaganzas with all the top skaters! Skating hasn't been the same since! We're lucky to get major events televised! ;-)

Anyone remember Kerigans's downward spiral as a pro that got so bad Scott Hamilton actually called her out and told her not to to show up to these comps if she wasn't going to bother to try?
 

Fiero425

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2,090
Anyone remember Kerigans's downward spiral as a pro that got so bad Scott Hamilton actually called her out and told her not to to show up to these comps if she wasn't going to bother to try?

Kerrigan really ruined her reputation early on acting so self-entitled! She was a true spoiled brat! No wonder Harding "whacked" her! ;-(
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,892
I had no idea Chen Lu competed at 2000-2001 Chinese Nationals and 2001 National Games of China. Was this a comeback attempt?

She trained to participate in the Chinese National Games, which is similar to the US Olympic Festival, at the request of the Chinese Skating Federation.
 

Fiero425

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2,090
Not everyone can be Denise Biellman or Kristi Yamaguichi.

Denise? Where'd she come from? I go back to the late 70's with Biellmann, but she had a very limited career, eeking out 1 Worlds in '81! Her claim to fame is the spin named after her; even though done 20 years earlier by another skater I can't think of (maybe Russian)! I felt for her after turning pro needing to perform that contortion again and again as she got older and it couldn't have been easy to get thru! ;-)
 

bardtoob

Clichy Competitive Audition Protocol Auditor
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13,892
Denise? Where'd she come from? I go back to the late 70's with Biellmann, but she had a very limited career, eeking out 1 Worlds in '81! Her claim to fame is the spin named after her; even though done 20 years earlier by another skater I can't think of (maybe Russian)! I felt for her after turning pro needing to perform that contortion again and again as she got older and it couldn't have been easy to get thru! ;-)

Have you seen Denise on Instagram :wideeyes::eek:

Ignore the preview and click on the link!


Amazing fitness to this day!
 

Weve3

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3,301
Anyone remember Kerigans's downward spiral as a pro that got so bad Scott Hamilton actually called her out and told her not to to show up to these comps if she wasn't going to bother to try?
Yes, Nancy had a downward spiral, and I do remember Scott calling her out, which he almost had to do. Also, as mentioned by other posters, her attitude was negative and peevish. I have sometimes wondered why she became a competitive skater in the first place. I am not suggesting that she has never enjoyed it, but even before the infamous whack, there were times when she came across as put-out, inconvenienced, and resentful. I am not trying to pile on Nancy, back then or now. Still, it was quite evident that she appeared to want to be doing something other than what she was currently doing at the time — skating, except for her annual Halloween show, which she seemed to enjoy thoroughly. I have always thought of Nancy as being the reluctant skater.
 

Fiero425

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2,090
Have you seen Denise on Instagram :wideeyes::eek:

Ignore the preview and click on the link!


Amazing fitness to this day!

...And? I never mentioned anything about her conditioning which has always been exemplary! I just made note of it getting more and more difficult to perform that Biellmann Spin of hers; having real back issues over the year! ;-)
 

Fiero425

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2,090
Yes, Nancy had a downward spiral, and I do remember Scott calling her out, which he almost had to do. Also, as mentioned by other posters, her attitude was negative and peevish. I have sometimes wondered why she became a competitive skater in the first place. I am not suggesting that she has never enjoyed it, but even before the infamous whack, there were times when she came across as put-out, inconvenienced, and resentful. I am not trying to pile on Nancy, back then or now. Still, it was quite evident that she appeared to want to be doing something other than what she was currently doing at the time — skating, except for her annual Halloween show, which she seemed to enjoy thoroughly. I have always thought of Nancy as being the reluctant skater.

That's been my problem with Kerrigan going way back; not to mention her probably being a "home wrecker!" ;-(
 

Weve3

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3,301
I guess Surya and Irina have been placed on the back burner for the moment, 😉 apologies for the thread drift. Still, I had mentioned Chen Lu was an exceptional pro show skater — the grape fiasco 🍇 aside, of course, and not so much a pro-competition skater, she struggled. Anyway, I think it is only fair to add Nicole Bobek to the best show skater list. If they awarded gold medals for best professional show skating performances, Nicole would be a gold medalist for sure. An incredible performer. A crowd favorite.
 

Fiero425

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2,090
I guess Surya and Irina have been placed on the back burner for the moment, 😉 apologies for the thread drift. Still, I had mentioned Chen Lu was an exceptional pro show skater — the grape fiasco 🍇 aside, of course, and not so much a pro-competition skater, she struggled. Anyway, I think it is only fair to add Nicole Bobek to the best show skater list. If they awarded gold medals for best professional show skating performances, Nicole would be a gold medalist for sure. An incredible performer. A crowd favorite.

Sent you my Figure Skating blog addy with some old posts referencing Surya and Irina! Add anyone to conversation! ;-)
 

Weve3

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Messages
3,301
I swear one of the reasons skating popularity declined wasn't just the over exposure or natural decline back to pre-wack standing but the fact that it felt like skaters just kept doing the same programs over and over and over, year after year after year :eek: Was it really that hard for some of them to come up with something new every once and a while?
There was a feeling of redundancy — but the flip side was when some started to get too creative, it went sideways pretty quickly. 🙈

She trained to participate in the Chinese National Games, which is similar to the US Olympic Festival, at the request of the Chinese Skating Federation.
At the ”request” :lol: Yeah, I’m buying that... not!

Sent you my Figure Skating blog addy with some old posts referencing Surya and Irina! Add anyone to conversation! ;-)
Very well done. 👍 Thank you.
 

DBZ

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Messages
1,138
I think I remember LuLu saying in an interview (after she retired from pro skating) that she didn't really enjoy pro/show skating very much. She said the motivation to keep pushing and improving just wasn't there like it was in amateur competition.

And I get that. Some skaters are more driven by competition than performing.
 

VGThuy

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33,252
I saw one pro performance of hers to “Chain of Fools” where she donned a chain. I remember being struck at how boring it was.
 

Erin

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9,901
It’s kind of too bad that’s what Yuka’s pro career is remembered for, because she was actually quite prolific in her pro career and her programs showed a lot of variety. Unfortunately, she did perform that one program over and over and over, so it tends to be what stands out.
 

Weve3

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3,301
Well, you know, there’s always going to be the skaters who phone it in, collect the paycheck and go home. Not everyone can be Denise or Kristi. ;)
 

antmanb

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10,350
Pretty sure reverse turning 3s are steps and a more difficult entrance into the jump. The fact that Slutskaya always made it look so easy doesn't mean it was. Surya basically did two foreward three turns-ish, it was pretty half-a'd footwork.

To be fair I took issue with the skater who said "steps" before Irina's triple loop because two sets of double three turns are indeed steps before and leading right into the jump, but to say Surya did two forward three turns is not only totally incorrect (its two sets of RBO 3 turn/Mohawk) but it also ignores the rink length movements and steps she does before those turns - she does crossovers around the end of the rink (before which she did a quick double rocker on the left foot but lets ignore that since she did cross overs afterwards) LFI mohawk, a small extended jump on the left foot, steps forward into another LFI mohawk which leads into the RBO3 turn, mohawk, RBO 3 mohawk straight into 3 salchow.

Overall they are both doing basic turns right into their triple jumps but Surya had more stuff before that (turns in both directions, and two different types of turn plus a hop with extension), but the turns aren't that well executed and I think i'd give Irina the nod on the solo jump, but I always point out that double threes into a loop jump is a drill that nearly every skater does to get the multi-rotation version of it.
 

gkelly

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15,483
It’s kind of too bad that’s what Yuka’s pro career is remembered for, because she was actually quite prolific in her pro career and her programs showed a lot of variety. Unfortunately, she did perform that one program over and over and over, so it tends to be what stands out.

Also fans keep bringing it up over and over and over as kind of a running joke, so the amount of discussion of that particular program on FSU etc. ends up being disproportionate to the actual amount of times she performed the program.

My interests were always more on competitive skating than pro skating, even pro "competitions" -- but the Sato pro programs I found more iconic were Afternoon of a Faun and even Sozo.

Also her career as a pro pair skater with Jason Dungjen, although I wouldn't recall any particular program of theirs.
 

Coco

Rotating while Russian!
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15,595
To be fair I took issue with the skater who said "steps" before Irina's triple loop because two sets of double three turns are indeed steps before and leading right into the jump, but to say Surya did two forward three turns is not only totally incorrect (its two sets of RBO 3 turn/Mohawk) but it also ignores the rink length movements and steps she does before those turns - she does crossovers around the end of the rink (before which she did a quick double rocker on the left foot but lets ignore that since she did cross overs afterwards) LFI mohawk, a small extended jump on the left foot, steps forward into another LFI mohawk which leads into the RBO3 turn, mohawk, RBO 3 mohawk straight into 3 salchow.

Overall they are both doing basic turns right into their triple jumps but Surya had more stuff before that (turns in both directions, and two different types of turn plus a hop with extension), but the turns aren't that well executed and I think i'd give Irina the nod on the solo jump, but I always point out that double threes into a loop jump is a drill that nearly every skater does to get the multi-rotation version of it.

I was the one who said "steps." Fair enough :)

It's posts like the one I've quoted here that make me love FSU because of all the detail and analysis.
 

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