Theatregirl1122
Needs a nap
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Other skaters had to change Prince programs before the Olympics due to rights issues. (Les Gacs, at least)
Music rights clearance issues (policy being implemented by the ISU starting in 2024)
- Thread starter Sylvia
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Other skaters had to change Prince programs before the Olympics due to rights issues. (Les Gacs, at least)
jmtfti
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His estate has cared, though -- it's why Lauriault/Le Gac couldn't skate their Prince RD here and had to create a new one.
Karen-W
Let the fan wars of the Olympic season begin!
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Or, Skate Canada told Les Gacs that they needed a firm clearance FROM the estate in order to use it at the Olympics. Seems logical to think that federation with a skater in recent memory ran into issues with a composer NOT giving clearance (Kevin Reynolds) may take a stricter stance on music clearances than a smaller federation that hasn't ever had that problem.
ginsengtea
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Maya B said on her podcast that some federations are much stricter about music rights than others, with Canada probably being the strictest. Some federations apparently weren’t planning to deal with it at all (until they're forced to, I presume).
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
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I'm really glad Selevko skated his Prince program, which still has me smiling like crazy.
Private Citizen
Anonymous void
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That may also explain the drama around Schizas's Lion King when others were using it, and how she ultimately ended up being able to use it.
This is all a complicated mess that needs consistent sorting.
TAHbKA
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Mean while Madonna posted 2 instagram stories featuring FB/Cizeron and Glenn skating to her music for all her 20+M followers to see.
MsZem
I see the sea
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I took a look and that was a cool message about Amber, she must be thrilled!Mean while Madonna posted 2 instagram stories featuring FB/Cizeron and Glenn skating to her music for all her 20+M followers to see.
Miezekatze
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Madonna also send some direct messages to Amber on TikTok earlier about which Amber was very excited
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I have! Zoe Keating (Jonathan CASSAR) and Loreena McKennit (Michelle Kwan's Dante's Prayer) are the two that immediately come to my mind, there might be more.I have never, ever bought music because someone skated to it.
Prince was rabid about it due to personal opinions on artistic integrity. For his estate, it's revenue.
I know I've told the story here of the Seattle dance company that negotiated with the Hendrix estate to use his music after they finally got the rights back, only to discover days before a huge showcase that the family had granted the rights only for the original run of performances. The company was only allowed to use the Hendrix live covers of other artists' work. They performed the rest of it in silence, which was incredible in its own way.
tangerine dream
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Someone needs to let her know about Abo/Ves.Mean while Madonna posted 2 instagram stories featuring FB/Cizeron and Glenn skating to her music for all her 20+M followers to see.
Former Lurve Goddess
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Re the differencing policies of the various federations, I read somewhere (I'll see if I can find the article) that because international copyright law is not at all straightforward (and works somewhat on precedent), it's theoretically possible that a music rights holder could make a legal claim that music used for a skating/gymnastics/artistic swimming program that is broadcast/streamed for the Olympics on multiple platforms & replays does indeed requite "sync" licensing and not just performance rights. If such a lawsuit ever came about, it's not exactly clear what the eventual outcome would be.
Sylvia
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Sandra Bezic has multiple posts on X today about the complex music clearance process & related issues - have copied them all out below:
An oversimplified explanation - re music clearance.
If a track is registered on a performance rights organization (PRO) such as ASCAP or BMI, Socan in Canada - every country had their own - It’s automatically cleared for LIVE event use, and the LIVE broadcast of that event. 1/
… Because the producer of the live event pays a blanket fee to the PRO for the event.
This explains why lawsuits have been rare over the decades of skating events.
Live events, and the broadcasting of those, have always complied with music copyright laws. 2/
The track can be registered to any PRO, not necessarily in the country of the live Event.
This is a generalization. There are caveats.
The danger zone is that some copyright holders do not register their tracks to a PRO. Hence the rare lawsuit. 3/
The laws are different for recorded events and commercial use, such as TV specials or series like Battle of the Blades, or anything aired after the fact. (with caveats)
The IOC is requiring commercial clearance as a reaction to those few lawsuits. Herein lies the problem. 4/
[Bolded by me] This is a complicated and sometimes expensive process that skaters, parents, coaches, choreographers are not equipped to handle. A professional well adept with the laws and procedures should be clearing music. 5/
On occasion, a skater can get lucky through direct contact with an artist - that is if the artist actually holds all the copyrights.
Prince’s Kiss (I think) ) is registered on ASCAP. Therefore, it’s legal to use from the music industry’s POV for a LIVE event.. 6/
However, typically Prince, now the estate, almost always denies commercial use. So if you try to actually clear his music you’ll likely get a denial.
Therefore, a track may be legal for the live event use, but unclearable for commercial use. 7/
Also one track from an artist may be registered to a PRO while another isn’t.
It is always the copyright holder’s right to deny, or pull approval, even if they’re registered to a PRO , if they don’t like how their music is being used - such as at a political rally. 8/
It is important for artists and copyright owners to maintain control and also profit from their creativity - which is why the PROs were created. It’s also important that we respect their rights.
Music copyright is so complex and this is a simplified explanation. 9/9
More:
When you clear music for commercial use - track by track must be cleared for each country it will be aired in. This is why most TV shows do not cross borders. It’s simply too expensive.
And then there’s editing… and there’s Grand Rights. Two more complicated layers to add to commercial music copyright laws.
Editing - music registered on a PRO - allows for edits “within reason” such as shortening to time, building an ending etc. This is expected. Commercially - a complicated layered edit usually requires the copyright holders to sign off.
I would not use ClicknClear.
In reply to "Sandra said the track is fine for a live performance. He didn’t edit it. He just played the song he owns and skated to it. He’ll [A. Selevko] be fine.":
I THINK - I don’t know for sure. But if you go to http://songview.com you can check. Hunting down a track to see if it’s registered is also a challenge. They may not be posted on the site. If it’s not there, it could still be register. At that point use a professional 1/
It may be legal from the music industry’s POV but not the IOC’s if they are asking for commercial clearance. Which is the IOC’s right I suppose. In my world it’s the producer’s responsibility to clear with a PRO blanket fee for a live event or full commercial use for taped. 2/2
Finally (for today) it has been my experience that artists are usually thrilled their music is being used for skating. (They don’t always hold all copyrights). The artists who decline usually make that choice on principle, and that is to be respected. There are few “bad guys”.
Lastly (replying to a long question) here: https://x.com/SandraBezic/status/2021621432397295892
An artist might share the stem files - the separate tracks - and give permission to use as skaters wish, or the skater might have new parts written and recorded. That could get problematic without permission if it is too layered or intermixed with original track.
An oversimplified explanation - re music clearance.
If a track is registered on a performance rights organization (PRO) such as ASCAP or BMI, Socan in Canada - every country had their own - It’s automatically cleared for LIVE event use, and the LIVE broadcast of that event. 1/
… Because the producer of the live event pays a blanket fee to the PRO for the event.
This explains why lawsuits have been rare over the decades of skating events.
Live events, and the broadcasting of those, have always complied with music copyright laws. 2/
The track can be registered to any PRO, not necessarily in the country of the live Event.
This is a generalization. There are caveats.
The danger zone is that some copyright holders do not register their tracks to a PRO. Hence the rare lawsuit. 3/
The laws are different for recorded events and commercial use, such as TV specials or series like Battle of the Blades, or anything aired after the fact. (with caveats)
The IOC is requiring commercial clearance as a reaction to those few lawsuits. Herein lies the problem. 4/
[Bolded by me] This is a complicated and sometimes expensive process that skaters, parents, coaches, choreographers are not equipped to handle. A professional well adept with the laws and procedures should be clearing music. 5/
On occasion, a skater can get lucky through direct contact with an artist - that is if the artist actually holds all the copyrights.
Prince’s Kiss (I think) ) is registered on ASCAP. Therefore, it’s legal to use from the music industry’s POV for a LIVE event.. 6/
However, typically Prince, now the estate, almost always denies commercial use. So if you try to actually clear his music you’ll likely get a denial.
Therefore, a track may be legal for the live event use, but unclearable for commercial use. 7/
Also one track from an artist may be registered to a PRO while another isn’t.
It is always the copyright holder’s right to deny, or pull approval, even if they’re registered to a PRO , if they don’t like how their music is being used - such as at a political rally. 8/
It is important for artists and copyright owners to maintain control and also profit from their creativity - which is why the PROs were created. It’s also important that we respect their rights.
Music copyright is so complex and this is a simplified explanation. 9/9
More:
When you clear music for commercial use - track by track must be cleared for each country it will be aired in. This is why most TV shows do not cross borders. It’s simply too expensive.
And then there’s editing… and there’s Grand Rights. Two more complicated layers to add to commercial music copyright laws.
Editing - music registered on a PRO - allows for edits “within reason” such as shortening to time, building an ending etc. This is expected. Commercially - a complicated layered edit usually requires the copyright holders to sign off.
I would not use ClicknClear.
In reply to "Sandra said the track is fine for a live performance. He didn’t edit it. He just played the song he owns and skated to it. He’ll [A. Selevko] be fine.":
I THINK - I don’t know for sure. But if you go to http://songview.com you can check. Hunting down a track to see if it’s registered is also a challenge. They may not be posted on the site. If it’s not there, it could still be register. At that point use a professional 1/
It may be legal from the music industry’s POV but not the IOC’s if they are asking for commercial clearance. Which is the IOC’s right I suppose. In my world it’s the producer’s responsibility to clear with a PRO blanket fee for a live event or full commercial use for taped. 2/2
Finally (for today) it has been my experience that artists are usually thrilled their music is being used for skating. (They don’t always hold all copyrights). The artists who decline usually make that choice on principle, and that is to be respected. There are few “bad guys”.
Lastly (replying to a long question) here: https://x.com/SandraBezic/status/2021621432397295892
An artist might share the stem files - the separate tracks - and give permission to use as skaters wish, or the skater might have new parts written and recorded. That could get problematic without permission if it is too layered or intermixed with original track.
Last edited:
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