Which beloved or highly regarded skaters do you personally NOT love or highly regard??

[tony]

Regarding Kwan, I totally agree that the soul and her own energy level brought something extra to the performance (and still does), even starting in 2002 when the free skates became predictable and repetitive. I never, ever loved Tosca and I wanted to like Bolero but by the end of the season it was really down to nothing. Aranjuez was just as empty but I still remember how excited I got when she landed her final Lutz at Worlds that year.

But anything Michelle from 1996-2001 is just amazing and for me it all still holds up just as it did. Dante's Prayer and East of Eden are two of my absolute favorite programs ever. I even loved Carmen, which it seems is one program MK fans are iffy on. I could really re-watch anything from Michelle in those years and get just as immersed as I was back then.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I never got the Christopher Bowman love until I actually had the chance to see him skate in person at the 1992 US National Championships in Orlando. His free skate had more random music cuts than standard Claudia Leistner fare, but that was irrelevant. It was how he performed for the audience and skated just for them which mattered.

Christopher Bowman - 1992 U.S. Nationals, Men's Free Skate

Orlando, Florida, USA - 1992 United States Figure Skating Championships, Men's Free Skate - Christopher Bowman won his 2nd National Title here.

www.youtube.com

 

[VGThuy]

To a certain degree, Kwan is best appreciated by fans who watched a lot of skating 1989 - 1996, lol. She and Lori had so much influence on what was acceptable going forward that it's hard to appreciate her fully without that context.

That's a great point. Kwan with Lori really did usher in a new style and laid a foundation that skaters who have followed have been using. I know I brought this up many times before, but it was so telling that after 2017 Worlds at I think Figure Skating in Harlem or some other event, the interviewer asked American skaters of all disciplines who was the skater that was most influential or the one they look up to the most and almost every one (except for like 1 or 2...I don't remember) said Michelle Kwan. I'm counting ice dancers, pairs skaters, men, and ladies, etc. I also think the amount of Asian-Americans we have participating in this sport were inspired by Yamaguchi (who was also inspired by Chin) and Kwan's image as well as their parents started thinking figure skating was a sport their kids can participate in.

 

[chantilly]

I found they have improved drastically in the last two seasons. I never really bought into them with few exceptions but all in all, the talent pool in ice dance right now doesn't inspire me much.

I really don’t think Chock and Bates qualify for “beloved” or “highly regarded” honestly.

They been highly derided or criticized on this forum.

Does mean your point doesn’t stand. Just think it’s not really in line with this particular thread is all.

 

[screech]

My list
Alena Kosternai- I don't care much for her facial expressions or attitude and many of her movements to the music seem stiff and unconnected with kind of a generic, calculated grace conveyed to fit a range of music genres and I don't see impressive edge work in the step sequences. I don't like her eulur and her skates splay out without a tight leg wrap on most of her combos. Good smooth straight line skating and speed, some good spins though not her I spin, some good transitions and jumps though a number of calls missed and over generous PCS since the message was sent after the Cup of France SP. Admittedly good consistency landing the triple axel with impressive height and transitions but slower rotation speed and not scrutinized with rotation calls missed after Cup of France SP.

I completely agree. I don't find her all that 'artistic', and though it's not a glaring thing, I can't stand her free leg position in the air on most of her jumps. While I do find her a bit more musical than the other 'A's, I prefer Scherbakova overall, and if both were to skate clean, I'd have Anna ahead by far.

 

[olympic]

I never got the Christopher Bowman love until I actually had the chance to see him skate in person at the 1992 US National Championships in Orlando. His free skate had more random music cuts than standard Claudia Leistner fare, but that was irrelevant. It was how he performed for the audience and skated just for them which mattered.

Christopher Bowman - 1992 U.S. Nationals, Men's Free Skate

Orlando, Florida, USA - 1992 United States Figure Skating Championships, Men's Free Skate - Christopher Bowman won his 2nd National Title here.

www.youtube.com

He does get a podium spot in the category of best male booty in skating

-----

But back to Kwan for a moment, I wished she had skated EoE for her SLC SP instead of Rach. It had more mileage because I believe she had skated it for the 1st portion of the season. I always felt more emotion from that piece. Also, she should've gone for 3Z-2L in the SP which she was nailing even on a mediocre day (see her LP) and it would've matched Slute if she had gone clean (not that that mattered. She finished ahead anyway)

 

[Marco]

IIRC Team MK had reserved East of Eden SP for the Olympic season but had to use it ahead of time in 2001 (debuting at 2000 GPF IIRC) because the judges didn't like her style departure with Rush and she was losing clean short programs to Irina's Culture (e.g. 2000 Skate Canada). Alas MK fired Lori before they could find another piece of music for her for the 2002 season and to use East of Eden for SLC after having used it for a full season would have been too tiresome. But if she had only debuted it fresh at 2001 Skate America, it would have been perfect for SLC - imagine her closing the program with the spiral sequence.

 

[GREGORY]

Virtue Moir and all Zueva's couples
Michele Kwan and all Tudberidze's puppets
Patrick Chan and Todd Eldredge
Stolbova-Klimov and Sale Pelletier

 

[muffinplus]

Michele Kwan and all Tudberidze's puppets

Well that's nice..

 

[lala]

-Alexei Yagudin. Boring for me
-Patrick Chan- something is missing but I like one program of him! The Four seasons
-Davis/White- they always rushed
-Elvis Stojko
-Midori Ito
-Brian Joubert
-Kostner most of the time but her Ave Maria and Bolero were fantastic
-kristi Yamaguchi
-Evan Lysacek
-Totmianina-Marinin
-Ashley Wagner
-Akiko Suzuki
-Yuna Kim

 

[jenny12]

Nathan Chen:I certainly admire his jumping and consistency, but I really don’t care for his style at all. I find him stiff and his posture is weird. Obviously he’s great but he doesn’t do it for me.

Zagitova/Medvedeva: both pretty much the same for me. No flow, nothing special about their line, bad posture on the part of Zagitova.

Plushenko and Yagudin: Looking back, I wasn’t a huge fan of their skating when I compare them to other great male skaters of the past. They both had great presence but neither of them had great line or refinement. At least Yagudin’s choreography improved after he left Mishin but re-watching him I found him rather overwrought and often heavy footed with his jumps. I found Plushenko often embarrassing to watch.


And to go a bit back in time over the lockdown, I’ve been on a kick of watching some 70s and 80s skating and I’d hate to say it but I didn’t really care for Linda Fratiane. I think of course she is a quality skater but after watching Janet Lynn and Dorothy Hamill, she didn’t really do it for me.

Also, Katarina Witt especially in 1988. Girl spent most of her long program posing and walking on the ice.

 

[canadianskater]

I never liked Elvis Stojko - I like skaters who have variety and really this guy just skated to the same themes and his show programs are literally the same choreography to different music.

Michael Weiss - He never impressed me at all

Plushenko - I don't know if it was the look he had or the lack of basic skating skills he had but never enjoyed his skating.

Zagitova and Radionova - Both of them could not hold a position and everything seemed rushed and it irritated me. Their postures were terrible and again their lack basic skating skills. Stop sticking your butt out!!!

Chock and Bates - I have admitted they have grown on me since moving to Montreal and she has corrected her posture a little bit but there is something about her always lagging behind him that bugs me. They seem like two skaters skating the same program instead of a team. Also they have had questionable programs in the past.

Adelina Sotnikova - I am still scratching my head as to how she ever got to the Olympics. A lot of questionable skating skills and jumping skills.

I don't know if Moore-Towers and Marinaro would qualify but I have not liked this team since the beginning. Maybe it was because Canada had three pair teams that were superior and they always fell short. This team just doesn't do it for me. And I also find her so obnoxious!

 

[Lemonade20]

I never liked Elvis Stojko - I like skaters who have variety and really this guy just skated to the same themes and his show programs are literally the same choreography to different music.

Michael Weiss - He never impressed me at all

Plushenko - I don't know if it was the look he had or the lack of basic skating skills he had but never enjoyed his skating.

Zagitova and Radionova - Both of them could not hold a position and everything seemed rushed and it irritated me. Their postures were terrible and again their lack basic skating skills. Stop sticking your butt out!!!

Chock and Bates - I have admitted they have grown on me since moving to Montreal and she has corrected her posture a little bit but there is something about her always lagging behind him that bugs me. They seem like two skaters skating the same program instead of a team. Also they have had questionable programs in the past.

Adelina Sotnikova - I am still scratching my head as to how she ever got to the Olympics. A lot of questionable skating skills and jumping skills.

I don't know if Moore-Towers and Marinaro would qualify but I have not liked this team since the beginning. Maybe it was because Canada had three pair teams that were superior and they always fell short. This team just doesn't do it for me. And I also find her so obnoxious!

I love Elvis, but he does have a certain style he sticks with. I’m not a fan of Alissa Czisny more due to her whiny personality and inconsistency on ice.

 

[Triple loop]

Surya Bonaly- too much telegraphing but liked her gutsy back flip.
Carolina Kostner- elegant but the landing on her jumps isn’t very secure. Kinda tentative.
Yuna Kim- strong jumper but no triple loop/axel and does many crossovers to get that height/speed. Lacks flexibility so positions aren’t that pretty. Spins are so so too.
Nathan Chen- amazing athleticism but lacks artistry. Skating needs to come from his heart. Can’t relate to him. Interviews are boring.

 

[Japanfan]

I never really rooted for either Kwan or Cohen. In part that was because I tend to root for the underdog, but that's not always the case.

More importantly, I think it was the commentators gushing over them. For example, they would get practically orgasmic when Sasha did her spin.

However, I would welcome a Kwan or Cohen spiral today, TBH. They both seem so elegant and measured when compared with the frenzied young lady high-jumpers of today.

 

[Lemonade20]

I never really rooted for either Kwan or Cohen. In part that was because I tend to root for the underdog, but that's not always the case.

More importantly, I think it was the commentators gushing over them. For example, they would get practically orgasmic when Sasha did her spin.

However, I would welcome a Kwan or Cohen spiral today, TBH. They both seem so elegant and measured when compared with the frenzied young lady high-jumpers of today.

 

[lexeoe]

Davis and White
Plushy
Hanyu
Lipinski
Ando
Zagitova
Medvedeva
P&C
Cohen
Slutskaya
Kostner

 

[TallyT]

Adam Rippon is one of those people I want to like (sort of like certain music) but simply can't sit through without my mind wandering.

Alexei Yagudin - great skater, but the for me the Richard Wagner of skating, he is past the line of where I can separate and forget the personality when watching the skating.

Sasha Trusova - purely Doctor Fell ("the reason why I cannot tell")

Nathan Chen - there's no there there, and utter indifference is harder to shake than dislike.

Bradie Tennel - too head librarian, and Mariah Bell - way way too jolly hockey sticks.

And I don't know if he yet counts as highly regarded but Kevin Aymoz's ultra-histrionics are wearing very thin.

 

[Marco]

Regarding Kwan, I totally agree that the soul and her own energy level brought something extra to the performance (and still does), even starting in 2002 when the free skates became predictable and repetitive. I never, ever loved Tosca and I wanted to like Bolero but by the end of the season it was really down to nothing. Aranjuez was just as empty but I still remember how excited I got when she landed her final Lutz at Worlds that year.

But anything Michelle from 1996-2001 is just amazing and for me it all still holds up just as it did. Dante's Prayer and East of Eden are two of my absolute favorite programs ever. I even loved Carmen, which it seems is one program MK fans are iffy on. I could really re-watch anything from Michelle in those years and get just as immersed as I was back then.

There are certainly skaters whom you have to see live to fully appreciate. Kwan is definitely one of them. I remember seeing her skate a redacted version of Fields of Gold on some mall ice rink in Hong Kong in 2003 and she just took my breath away. There is nothing that can quite compare to that aura, that presence.

 

[VGThuy]

I did something nerdy and rewatched the 2001 Worlds LP again for her birthday and after seeing everyone else and then seeing Kwan just move across the ice, she may not have had the soft fluidity of Nikodinov, but Kwan moves across that rink like she belonged out there. It was like she was made to skate and knew it. It’s hard to explain, but it’s rare to see someone in that much command of themselves and looking like they’re something they’re meant to be doing. When it came to moving across that rink, she never made it look like work.

 

[olympic]

I did something nerdy and rewatched the 2001 Worlds LP again for her birthday and after seeing everyone else and then seeing Kwan just move across the ice, she may not have had the soft fluidity of Nikodinov, but Kwan moves across that rink like she belonged out there. It was like she was made to skate and knew it. It’s hard to explain, but it’s rare to see someone in that much command of themselves and looking like they’re something they’re meant to be doing. When it came to moving across that rink, she never made it look like work.

I always thought that if one were to rank best LPs by skater, MK's SOTBS LP at 01 Worlds would be her best LP performance in her career; that was the strongest 3T-3T I'd seen from her in a performance and of course her jumps were all on point including 2 3Z's (she was not a powerful jumper but the elements were done w/ an exclamation point!). Also, she had reached a level of maturity and physical fitness that was not quite there from Nagano. I think she introduced the martini layback spin, and while one could argue that her programs were a level more complex in 96 and 97, she had developed a big reputation and strong presence on the ice by 01 that you saw from skaters like Witt, who was a jumping bean up to Sarajevo in 84, but then became a real presence on the ice and had her best LP ever by 87.

 

[Marco]

I always thought that if one were to rank best LPs by skater, MK's SOTBS LP at 01 Worlds would be her best LP performance in her career; that was the strongest 3T-3T I'd seen from her in a performance and of course her jumps were all on point including 2 3Z's (she was not a powerful jumper but the elements were done w/ an exclamation point!). Also, she had reached a level of maturity and physical fitness that was not quite there from Nagano. I think she introduced the martini layback spin, and while one could argue that her programs were a level more complex in 96 and 97, she had developed a big reputation and strong presence on the ice by 01 that you saw from skaters like Witt, who was a jumping bean up to Sarajevo in 84, but then became a real presence on the ice and had her best LP ever by 87.

The 3flip was squeaked out and the final 3lutz was UR.

 

[Vash01]

Savchenko, with all her partners
Shen & Zhao
Virtue & Moir
Kaetlyn Osmond
Satoko Miyahara
Evan Lysacek
Nobunari Oda
Hawayek Baker
Alissa Czisny
Liz Manley
Pang & Tong

 

[dramagrrl]

Re: MK's influence on and beyond the sport in the 90s, I was watching a recent Netflix documentary about Claudia Kishi, the Japanese-American character from the extremely popular tween 90s book series The Baby-Sitters Club and how she gave Asian-American tweens someone to look up to when there was very little non-white representation in American pop culture. The documentary started with many currently prominent Asian-American YA authors, directors, artists, etc., trying to name any other Asian pop culture figures from the time period, and all the examples they came up with were fictional characters - the yellow Power Ranger, some character from Captain Planet, a character from Goonies, etc. - except for one. The one actual Asian-American role model that any of them could name was Michelle Kwan. If I did a poll of non-figure skating fans and asked them to name a random figure skater, even here in Canada, I think the top answers I would get would still be two Canadian skaters from the 90s (Kurt Browning and Elvis Stojko), maybe Virtue and Moir, and MK.

 

[olympic]

The 3flip was squeaked out and the final 3lutz was UR.

Stop bursting my balloon. Seriously, I don't recall that and prior to IJS, I didn't pay attention to URs unless it was really bad. Did she ever have a strong flip before going to RA in 04?

Anyway, I still think that 01 performance was one of her best along with 98 Nationals and 95 SA. Those would be the quintessential Kwan performances for me.

 

[VGThuy]

95 Skate America was a huge statement. She beat every skater who had beaten her at 1995 Worlds. That was a stacked competition.

 

[antmanb]

Stop bursting my balloon. Seriously, I don't recall that and prior to IJS, I didn't pay attention to URs unless it was really bad. Did she ever have a strong flip before going to RA in 04?

She put a pretty good one into her SP at 1995 worlds...though looking at the slow mo, it might just be the angle but she almost looks to be on a stronger outside edge than she managed on her lutz

1995 WC Ladies SP Michelle Kwan

Michelle Kwan's SP from the 1995 World Championships. Her 2nd Worlds and a great performance - many argued she should have been placed above Bonaly.

youtu.be

 

[Lemonade20]

She put a pretty good one into her SP at 1995 worlds...though looking at the slow mo, it might just be the angle but she almost looks to be on a stronger outside edge than she managed on her lutz

1995 WC Ladies SP Michelle Kwan

Michelle Kwan's SP from the 1995 World Championships. Her 2nd Worlds and a great performance - many argued she should have been placed above Bonaly.

youtu.be

I love how this turned into a Michelle Kwan thread

 

[VGThuy]

What thread is more appropriate for some of us nutty Kwan fans to spread Kwan-oriented soft power?

 

[Vash01]

Adding to my previous list-

Nathan Chen ( he does not touch me the way other skaters do)

Lovacheva Averbukh
(Can autocorrect Please not mark Proper names as Wrong?)

Stephane Lambiel as amateur (Loved him as pro)

Underhill Martini (loved their ‘Yesterday’ but disliked most of their other programs. They were winning with a Throw Single Axel!)

Rodnina Zaitsev (I respect their determination but they didn’t move me the way other Russian pairs did)

Jill Trenary as eligible skater (much better as pro)

Duhamel Radford (why didn’t I think of them earlier?)

Olga Markova (Not really a top skater but I dont understand why people like her skating)

Roslyn Sumner