Big Brother 19 (US)

[smurfy]

Finally the nightmare ends!!!!!!
Shocked that Josh won, but part of me is glad Paul did not win. At least we had a surprise.
They robbed us by not showing the losers for AFP. Maybe some photo will be online.
Yea for Cody. I liked his reaction.
Jason and Alex voted for Josh. I like how Elena just admitted she was a bitter juror.
And Cody voted for Josh. Wow
IMHO it came down to jury management.

I think I saw Frankie Grande pet in the audience, yuck

 

[tony]

Every year it’s a question of whether you give it to someone who played the game so hard versus someone who maybe coasted by or got lucky to get to the end.

I was in the same boat if disliking Paul but he is the only person in the house who deserved it, and I mean that since the week Cody was evicted.

Now the producers have motive to put him on a third season. Maybe the upcoming celebrity season as a former player (since Frankies name seems to be floating around even more as a potential celeb).

I 100% can say that if I were on this game or Survivor and I was on the jury, I would always give it to the person who played the game the best.. not the person who made me the least mad.

 

[smurfy]

Every year it’s a question of whether you give it to someone who played the game so hard versus someone who maybe coasted by or got lucky to get to the end.

I was in the same boat if disliking Paul but he is the only person in the house who deserved it, and I mean that since the week Cody was evicted.

Now the producers have motive to put him on a third season. Maybe the upcoming celebrity season as a former player (since Frankies name seems to be floating around even more as a potential celeb).

I 100% can say that if I were on this game or Survivor and I was on the jury, I would always give it to the person who played the game the best.. not the person who made me the least mad.

God no more Paul. The more I think about it, he just blew it w jury management and his arrogance. I dont want to see him again

Im watching the live backyard feed w Dr Will. He is pretty funny. He is asking everyone which shomance will break ip right away, go the distance or make a baby immediately. He wants Cameron to come back

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Paul's arrogance and not owning up to his horrid behavior makes me so glad he didn't win. Even in the end he wouldn't admit that he was the mastermind behind all the bullying and personal attacks. All the lies caught up to him. He's so entitled and thinks he's God's gift. Glad he got knocked down yet again. Maybe this second loss will teach him some humility.

 

[tony]

Someone pointed out to me on Facebook and I rewatched to see it, but Paul knew exactly when Mark’s vote went to Josh that he had lost. It’s all over his face for a good 15 seconds and he’s in disbelief that he lost again.

I really, really thought Cody would vote for Paul though. Cody realized from the beginning that Paul was the power in the house and I thought he would have respected the fact that Paul was able to avoid being a target and make it to the end.

Oh well. In all honesty I’d probably be just as moody with a Paul win.

 

[Sally1214]

WORST WINNER EVER!! How does someone who did NOTHING win over someone who did everything? Because 5 jury members were a bitter bunch of total losers. I can't imagine how they can justify (let alone feel the least bit good about) their decision. The best player definitely did NOT win. This is the type of finale that just makes people disgusted and not tune in for any more seasons of Big Brother. I'm pretty sure I'll be able to find something better to do with my time.

 

[jamesy]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

This hot mess of a season deserves a winner in Josh.

Cody's thinly veiled disgust with everything was the best part. He deserved the fan vote.

 

[Jenny]

More later as I should really do some work - couldn't resist dipping into a few sites with my tea - but here's the thing on Cody.

Last night, hubby who does not watch the show and only hears me yammering about it, asked why a guy like Cody didn't just quit the jury and go be with Jessica when his disdain for everything was so clear. I suggested that he's a marine, so he stays true to mission/honour/contract. He said but a marine also knows when a mission has failed and when to cut their losses.

So I said maybe he's hoping for Survivor, as word is he originally applied for it, and DING! hubby is sure that not only was it a carrot, it is a contract. He's been promised Survivor, or at the least the opportunity to jump right to the final stages of the casting process. When he said that he was told by multiple people to stay in his seat when he sees Jessica, that suggested to me that he's been told all along (esp w producers knowing for weeks he would likely win AFP) to just stick with it, play along, and the rewards will come.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

If Cody quit the jury or didn't follow direction he would've also lost his stipend of at least $8000. Since he left his truck on the side of the road before the show because he didn't have money to fix it, he wasn't in a position to walk away from any money. I don't watch Survivor so I hope he gets cast on Amazing Race instead.

 

[Jenny]

Further thoughts - I really enjoyed that last night, almost like it was worth such a crappy season just to set up this finale

Josh - His speech was a mess as expected, which just made Paul's look that much more overrehearsed and calculating (plus he went so fast I bet much of it was lost on the jury anyway). However, I thought Josh absolutely killed the QA. Many of the questions were harder than softballs of past years, and Josh was confident, genuine (came across that way, whether he was or not), articulate, and actually had a decent case to make. Paul crumbled.

Paul - Classic case of how much credit do you take for what you did vs not admitting how much manipulation you did. And he blew it. This was a bitter jury looking for honesty (esp Alex and likely Jason), so instead of denying the nastier parts of his game, he should have owned them. I'm not sure the jury will truly appreciate what he did (including things like lining himself up to be able to play in the crucial HOHs, and forcing others to make the deciding votes) until the dust settles.

Also, Derrick proved that you can lie and manipulate and strategize your way to the top without hatemongering and bullying. If Paul had taken a page from that playbook combined with his instant popularity in the house, he would have won IMO. His dirty gameplay turned Elena and Mark, and may be what also made Cody vote against him.

Cody - On that note, his vote. Could have been something virtuous like refusing to support dirty play (honour and all that), could have been something as simple as revenge for something he might have said to Jess. He did say something about being true to his word, whatever that was, when he voted. Another thought is that he might be very tired of Paul continually saying that he was never on the block, knowing full well that Cody would have put him there had it not been for the producer's gift, and that on top of that, Paul ad nauseum referred to himself as a vet, when of course Cody is a "real" vet.

Pre jury people - For once I was fine with not giving any airplay at all to Dom and especially Ramses and Jillian, who contributed zero to the season. I was glad they gave Cameron a voice - I feel like they truly regret what happened to him, and my bet is we won't see a first day vote out again. Survivor did it once (maybe twice?) and I think also regretted it. Also loved that he called out not just the sheep following Paul, but that nearly all of them were playing for their partners instead of half a million bucks. I think we will see him again in future in some capacity, either playing again or in some other Jeff/Will type role.

Also happy we've finally given up on the charade of jury members being instructed not to talk game. Does Survivor still pretend that?

Raven - Apparently Dr Will made a few snide jokes about her in the backyard, but not to her face, and BB pretty much danced around her many, many issues. I wonder if this was legal advice - be very careful about any hint of questioning her illnesses, and that includes not giving her a platform to talk about them, thus not spending more time calling out her gameplay. Maybe the montage editors, Julie and Dr Will were told just don't go there at all, it's not worth it.

But can we talk about her draping herself all over Paul at the end? WTF was that? Trying to be on camera when Julie announced AFP because she thought it would be her, and if not Paul? Trying to associate herself with Paul's carryover popularity? Did he promise that he's introduce her to people etc etc? Word is they had met at least once before the show, but I don't think there was an actual relationship there. Anyway, I found it hysterical

I wonder if Paul's girlfriend was in the audience. He was already shocked by a lot last night, and I imagine she's about to give him an earful as well.

And yes, we missed their faces when AFP was announced. Josh thought it would be Christmas, Matt thought it would be Raven, and Paul, Christmas, Raven and Alex all thought they'd win it. But I think our payoff made up for it:

- We already had a ton of shocked Paul during jury questioning, both at their questions/accusations, and at Josh's revelations (and Paul didn't help his case by openly pointing to himself to take credit when Josh was talking - total lack of class and sportsmanship there), not to mention Paul so desperately trying to restate his case and get jury votes after they were cast.

- And, for once I don't think there will be any calls about vote rigging by fans or producers, given that the top 3 was exactly what most BB sites were showing.

 

[Jenny]

One other thing! Paul's continual yammering about how he was the only vet (which hello comes with advantages as well as disadvantages), target the whole time, had to work sooo hard must've really pissed of jurors who had come to realize that they all played a significant role in getting Paul to the end. And, in case they forgot, Cody was there to remind them that Paul had an enormous advantage handed to him on a silver platter that he also failed to acknowledge, ever.

Four of them stayed loyal, but I do wonder if Alex (and by extension Jason) might have voted for him had he simply acknowledged the important part they played in getting him there, apologized that he used them, and thanked them for all they did to support him.

And then he would have won the game.

 

[smurfy]

Tony Wheeler - I saw the moment you reference when Paul realized Josh had votes. And after the winner was announced, how Paul encouraged Josh out the door, but Paul did not follow for awhile. I think he was composing himself.

I am still thinking/processing this.
Yes, I understand that many think Paul deserved to win, and he was the only strategic player etc. I agree with all those points.
But if you look at Survivor - Russel Hantz as an example - jury management is very important part of the game.
If there are 3 components: strategy, comps and social, Paul failed 1/3 of the game.
And as much as I dislike Josh- I think his good bye messages were good for his strategy and social game.
I think Paul did go too far with the jury members that did not vote for him - especially Cody and Mark,
and that is what lost him the game.
Jenny- you are so right - the show last night was so entertaining and payoff for the rest of the season.
I am not happy Josh won, but I was thoroughly entertained that Paul did not win.
Future players of Survivor and BB really need to watch this season - as an example of what not to do with jury management.
The only players I am ok seeing again are Jess, Cody, Mark, Elena and Cody. The rest of them are just a waste of time.

 

[Catherine M]

He did say something about being true to his word, whatever that was, when he voted. Another thought is that he might be very tired of Paul continually saying that he was never on the block, knowing full well that Cody would have put him there had it not been for the producer's gift, and that on top of that, Paul ad nauseum referred to himself as a vet, when of course Cody is a "real" vet.

I read on Sucks that someone remembered a sound bite from Cody where he said that if Josh made it to the end, he'd vote for him. It was early on in season but that could be where the "I kept my word" part came from. Add that to Cody hating Paul from the moment he walked in the door, and you have a 5th vote for Josh, not Paul.

 

[Jenny]

Julie's take - Cody won by a lot apparently, Paul was robbed, but

More than stunned, I think Paul was embarrassed and upset. But more embarrassed than anything. You could feel his frustration with himself for miscalculating how the jury would ultimately vote. He should have shown more remorse in his final plea to the jury. And he shouldn’t have been making faces during Josh’s speech to the jury.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

I thought Paul pointing to himself and making faces every time Josh mentioned him was particularly bad sportsmanship. I really hope someone sits him down and shows him all the ways he went wrong because I don't think he has any self awareness to realize his errors.

 

[Jenny]

When he called Josh a coward for the goodbye messages you could see the jury reacting to that, especially given that they knew by then that Paul had made them do his dirty work repeatedly in the form of bullying, spreading lies, and casting deciding votes while he tried to protect his jury votes.

Alex said it all when she voted - you both stabbed me, so I'm voting for the person who stabbed me in the front rather than the back.

 

[Habs]

I just listened to the Rob Cesternino podcast from last night - he interviewed everyone in the backyard. His subtle shade at Raven was AMAZING and went totally over her head. Priceless.

 

[mysticchic]

I'm glad Josh won. I am kinda of shocked Josh didn't take Christmas to f2. I think one of the turning points with the jury was also the montage that they showed of Paul in the diary room calling himself the puppetmaster.
He was cocky, fake and didn't own up to his game play. He was never going to go on the block once Jody was out. He played the victim and all of them knew it.
Josh was the only one that figured him out. But it was too late. Had Paul played the same game without the bullying, I would have been team Paul. I know Kevin's son was mad at Paul for isolating and lying about his father.
Hopefully we don't see Paul back.
Oh, Paul promised Ravin that he would make t shirts for her to raise money and all kinds of other things. That girl has a rude awakening and so does Matt. Rumor has it her mom is under investigation for fraud and she is also threatening to sue BB and CBS.
I hope Ramse gets on Star Trek. I love Dr Will doing the interviews. He is so snarky!

 

[Jenny]

More and more I think Raven is just delusional, and this won't affect her as much as one might hope.

She seems like the type, no doubt reinforced by her doting mother and now perhaps Matt too, to just tell herself that everyone is jealous of her and/or too stupid to see how smart she is.

The fact that she still keeps saying that she was *the* puppetmaster and Paul's true alliance despite all the hard evidence put before her by multiple people says to me that she really believes it, and nothing's going to change her mind. And the way she was clinging to Paul at the end just screamed defiance to me, in her mind "proving" to the world that we're all wrong and she's right.

The whole illness thing just makes her think she's even more special and unusual and in a different plane from the rest of us, and of course no one can possibly understand. Except maybe that family in Sweden.

 

[love skating]

I'm thrilled Paul lost. His lack of jury management bit him again. There are plenty of times in both BB or in Survivor where I am mad at who loses and/or wins saying "so and so deserved to win" - but in the end if you can't get your jury to vote for you then you don't deserve to win. I can still be mad about those wins/losses but the name of the game is to get people you evicted to vote for you.

 

[mysticchic]

Hahaha@Jenny The family in Sweden! Her DNA for GP came from the Titanic.

 

[mysticchic]

OMG this is so funny! Rob Has a Podcast. He trolls Raven and matt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4783&v=fVp0Hl6hDaU

 

[tony]

OMG this is so funny! Rob Has a Podcast. He trolls Raven and matt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4783&v=fVp0Hl6hDaU

Ravens whole interview is unfortunate. Going over all of her ailments and then all of her moms unusual encounters and talents (maybe true, maybe not but Rob was clearly just pushing for it), saying her biggest move was getting someone else out of an HOH competition that was being thrown to someone else anyways, and still believing she and Paul were making all the moves because she had met him prior and he ‘definitely’ remembered her in the house. It’s so obvious she was on the show to become some kind of star and she fell way flat of that. But since she and Matt were so disliked, I could see CBS tormenting us with putting them on The Amazing Race.

 

[mysticchic]

I bet she was stalking Paul. Her Mom sounds like a huge stage mom with Munchhausen and Munchhausen by poxi. She pushed all the local news stations to get Raven's story on, then pushed for her in beauty pageants and also to be on Ellen. Someone on the GP site said Raven's mom was always trying to make Raven the face of GP to get on TV. It was always followed by raising money for them. It sounded like they were afraid of her mom. I can see why after the # thing happened. She also said her Mom threatened to sue CBS when they tried to pass on Raven. I doubt we will see her again. after the twitter thing came out, they tried not to show her at all on the feeds. But she will live in her own little world. Maybe Dr Phil in the future.
I think we will see Alex and numbnuts on TAR. Christmas on BB again and also Kevin. BTW I loved Kevin's interview. So it was true his kids got him to tryout.

 

[tony]

I don’t think Christmas will be on Big Brother again. I hope not. I would love to see Cody or Jessica play again but they would be such big targets from the beginning. They actually are potential Amazing Race contestants more than I think Alex would be, even though she stated that she wanted it. The rest of them are a snooze. Production probably just wants to get rid of most of them. I’m sure Paul will be around in some capacity on CBS in the future, though.

 

[Jenny]

I don't know how TAR picks, but do Alex and Jason have enough profile outside of BB to be useful to TAR? I can see them being a fun pairing and playing hard, but I don't see them bringing viewers.

Cody and Jessica make more sense, but then again does she want to do it? I have the impression she wants to do more LA-based stuff - more Bold & Beautiful, that sort of thing. Her social is already filled with product endorsements - not sure if that's paid/freebies at this stage or she's trying to get more by showing she'll do it. She also seems to have relished in her role as social convenor for the vote outs/families/fans and publicist for Cody, which perhaps she'd love to do again if he does Survivor. I think Survivor makes more sense for him - he'd be a great physical/challenge player and still has the whole social game journey ahead of him, which Survivor loves.

Agree that Paul is likely stuck in BB world - he continues to be very complimentary of the show/producers etc so likely hoping for continued association in some form. I can't see them actually casting him again though given how far his star fell, unless perhaps in a pool for viewer votes to play again.

I could see them inviting Christmas back if it's some redemption/second chance theme, on the thinking that they/viewers will be curious to see how she plays in full form. I don't want to see her, but that's me.

As I said before, I hope they give Cameron a chance to either play again, or be an official blogger type thing. He seems to really love the game.

I wonder if given their new friendship w Cody and Jessica and what appears to be an actual relationship, Elena and Mark might take a shot at Hollywood. She already has a resume so I could see her getting a radio job in LA, and Mark taking his chances. If the four of them help each other out, they might actually make a go of it. Mark is more likely up for stuff, but I don't see Elena wanting to do another reality show.

As for Raven, as soon as contractual obligations and post show publicity are complete, I imagine she will be essentially blacklisted not just by BB, but by all of CBS.

 

[Jenny]

OMG this is so funny! Rob Has a Podcast. He trolls Raven and matt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4783&v=fVp0Hl6hDaU

OMG Rob so saucy and of course she totally misses it!

Only had a chance to watch her and then Jess and Cody, and what a contrast. Raven talking to the camera, posing, barely listening to Rob, clearly wants to be a star.

And someone needs to ask Paul how much he really knows her, because I thought they met all of once in passing, but she's acting like they have this incredibly close and deep relationship. Stalker!!

And she thinks she would have beat Paul in the end, bless her heart

In contrast, Jess and Cody weren't camera friendly at all. I expected her to play to the camera more, but she seemed interested only in supporting Cody. re the conversation above about everyone's future, it does seem Cody wants to compete more than be a star, so yeah he'd likely love to do TAR or Survivor, but I'm rethinking Jess. Perhaps she'd like to be famous, but on her own terms rather than on someone else's show.

 

[mysticchic]

jess could do Real Housewives! I see Alex and Jason on TAR for sure.
Raven is just bat shit cra cra. I could see her doing soft porn in the name of GP. Or other shows that would make fun of her. There will be the country bumkins who will show up to local events to meet her. Momma Walton and her Mensa will manage her. But I bet Dr Phil already has tried to book her and her family. He does pay money to appear on his show. I'm sure her mom would jump at the chance to "clear up" all the misinformation. It would be a 5k payday plus expenses.
I agree, Cody won't do any more reality TV unless Jess is there.
Josh will get on BB again some day and so will Christmas. Maybe they will do TAR together.
Kevin will get on something. I really liked him. I liked him more after the rob interview. He might even get his own show. TLC Kevin + 7! Maybe dancing with the stars.
Ramse (Maybe it was him who said he was coming back). I bet he will get a walk on with Star Trek and do the comma-con thing.
Paul will still live in his parents house, smoking pot and selling Tshirts. BTW those tshirts are horrible. Anyone could have designed them. It's all clip art. I have a couple of friends who own a tshirt company and they make those shirts for 2.00 and sell them for 20-40.00. He still walked away with 50k+ I'm sure he was paid more then the others (several sites reported he got 2x or 3x more then the other guest). So that is an additional 20-30k. I could live off of that kind of money for a few years.
Christmas will get a 2nd chance on bb. Her breaking her foot was the only way she stayed to f3. Everyone from day 1 wanted to get her out. I could also see her on survivor. she also got higher pay than the others.
all for now

 

[Jenny]

@mysticchic you should be a Hollywood producer - your ideas are spot on - Jess on RHOSomething, Raven doing porn, Kevin on DWTS. Perfect!

 

[mysticchic]

@Jenny I was a national news producer for over 20 years.