Papadakis/Cizeron: Latin dances always look "cheap and cliche"

[umhermione]

Gabriella: I’m not a big fan of Latin for skating. I love Latin dances, I love watching Latin dances, on the floor. But on the ice… I think it’s such a different dynamic in the body that cannot really be translated on the ice, so it’s always gonna look kind of… cheap…

Guillaume: Cliché…

Gabriella: Cheap and cliché, Latin dances on the ice. Plus, there are no much possible different choices for themes and musics. Latin music always kind of sounds the same for me, with the same kind of instruments, and rhythms and… Not like this season – you could’ve had the 20ties, the 30ties, the 40ties, the 60ties, rock ’n’ roll, hip-hop, there was so many difference choices you could have! Latin music? Iiiih, not so many! [she makes a squeaking sound, and then starts laughing]. So it’s hard to be original on these things.

Guillaume: The thing about the free dance is that you get to really ice dance, and not dance on the ice. You know what I mean? And the short dance is more about dancing on the ice. All those ballroom positions don’t really fit to the ice, to the material that we have. I think it’s always gonna be a struggle, because we are ice dancers, we’re not ballroom dancers.

And for me the short dance kind of feels like Dancing with the stars. You pick skaters, and you try to make them ballroom dancers, but it’s never gonna… Like if you wanna see Latin dance, go watch a ballroom… ball, you know? [laughing] So I think it always kind of looks cheap.

source

so their latin SD is going to be real interesting next season...

 

[screech]

Well, pre IJS, dancers managed to fit the ballroom positions just fine (and in some cases spectacularly). So I personally don't necessarily agree, but then again, I'm not an ice dancer.

 

[DaiKozOda]

Tessa and Scott send their regards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIIM6FowjPQ

 

[chapis]

Does all Latin music sound the same?, really? that is simply ignorance, there are many and different latin music. And I hope that people understand that the 4-5 pieces that skaters always choose don´t reflect all our music. And this comment sounds even weirder coming from someone who has been widely criticized because her programs all look the same.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Tessa and Scott send their regards https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIIM6FowjPQ

Sorry, I hate this dance immensely. I hated it even more when they revised it as a SD in 2012 and I actually like V&M. The last time we had a Latin SD, in 2012, I found the majority of them to be dreadful. V&M were out of their element and D&W were an unwatchable spastic mess. The only one I even sort of liked was P&B's, and that was only because they didn't try to be sexy or pull off a character they couldn't possibly portray. I really am dreading this upcoming season's SD.

 

[oleada]

I don't think they are wrong. The dances always come off as very cliched and inauthentic. They really make me cringe.

 

[Twilight1]

I think for a team that has shown themselves to not really click with any style of SD, them basically making fun of a style before they have even attempted to put one together is cheap itself.

Have they even watched their coaches? They ROCKED latin dances.

Seriously. They need to actually try to learn to dance other styles... otherwise they are just one trick ponies and will be seen as such next year when they scrap together another silver medal behind V&M.

 

[escaflowne9282]

Have they even watched their coaches? They ROCKED latin dances.
.

They did?

 

[VGThuy]

I understand what they're saying somewhat. Seeing Latin ballroom dances with the way the hair, costumes, faces, etc. is already sort of tacky looking and sort of a mockery and borderline cultural appropriation, but the dancing is usually really good and the rhythm is there if a bit more theatrical than something you'd see real people do. Plus that's how Latin ballroom dancing has been in forever that it's become its own subculture and that sort of dress and portrayal is more-or-less accepted.

However, seeing ice dancers for the most part attempt Latin ballroom on ice without the same level of dance skill, and all you see is their idea of what Latin dancers look like, and it always can look like a bad stereotype of what they think Latin ballroom dancers dress like.

However, after last season, I think many people would welcome a lot of tackiness and outlandish facial expressions and OTT movement.

 

[princeton123]

Latin dances are bad with bad Latin dancers. /obvious

V/M did an iconic one in 2011, and Weaver/Poje and Cappellini/Lanotte have also done well with the Latin rhythms. P/C not being able to do Latin is an indictment on no one but themselves.

 

[manhn]

They are only being honest!!!!! And unPC!!! And French!!!!

English is not their first language, so they are totally being misinterpreted!!!!

 

[ballettmaus]

I don't really see the problem here. P/C are stating their very own opinion on Latin dances and why they don't like to do them. Others are free to disagree but they don't like it. Period.

(And considering the music that gets used when there is a Latin SD or used to be a Latin OD, they do have a point about the music sounding the same. 'Cause half the music usually is the same )

 

[VGThuy]

I really liked V/M's FD personally but mainly just for them. With the actual choreography, the only part I actually liked in that FD were the opening moves where they really danced up to the first footwork sequence (and Marina's face as she was bobbing her head up and down with the music in the opening). The footwork itself was more-or-less IJS ice dance cookie cutter Marina/Igor footwork, and I don't think the rest of the dance sustained the vibrancy they had in the opening moves. In the SD version, the only part I really liked was the dancing leading up to the final pose with the way Tessa got down low as she was spinning.

 

[Twilight1]

They did?

Ya they did. Unlike P&C, they were able to do more than one style in their competitive career as well.

I used to really like P&C but lately... not so much.

 

[chapis]

She said: there are no much possible different choices for themes and musics. Really? why? Is someone forcing her to use the same 4 or 5 pieces that everyone always uses?

 

[escaflowne9282]

Ya they did. Unlike P&C, they were able to do more than one style in their competitive career as well.

I used to really like P&C but lately... not so much.

"At Last" and "Somewhere In Time" with "Ne Me Quitte Pas" as their foray into Latin? I love them as coaches and from what I can tell they are wonderful people, but they were my fridge break for most of their competitive career.
I did like their Gotan Project FD though.

 

[Cherub721]

This reminds me of the interview from March where he said "we don't want to do an Egyptian program one year, then a flamenco..." So basically the only type of authentic ice dance is that one FD they've been doing for the past 3 years. Which I loved, especially the first time, and I am a fan of theirs, but c'mon. The literal point of ice dance is interpreting different rhythms. Dancing to the beat is required.

 

[VGThuy]

If the 2011-2012 SDs are anything to go by, then IMO, the only way the Latin SDs will be good dance-wise is if they get rid of all the levels for FW and make it all GOE-based and get rid of the pattern dance and maybe some IJS required elements. The steps in the footwork sequences themselves didn't really reflect the Latin character but just reflected level 4 requirements. If that is done, then the ice dancers will have time to actually dance to the rhythm and choreograph appropriate steps throughout the entire dance. The 2012 SDs all seemed so cluttered and focused on the itemized elements and I found there was very little actual dancing going on in almost all of them.

 

[chapis]

If the 2011-2012 SDs are anything to go by, then IMO, the only way the Latin SDs will be good dance-wise is if they get rid of all the levels for FW and make it all GOE-based and get rid of the pattern dance and maybe some IJS required elements. The steps in the footwork sequences themselves didn't really reflect the Latin character but just reflected level 4 requirements. If that is done, then the ice dancers will have time to actually dance to the rhythm and choreograph appropriate steps throughout the entire dance. The 2012 SDs all seemed so cluttered and focused on the itemized elements and I found there was very little actual dancing going on in almost all of them.

This discipline is enough subjective now , if they eliminate the pattern and required elements, ice dance would be basically a popularity contest.

 

[sap5]

I sort of agree with P/C. As Scott Moir said himself, so much of Latin dance is based off the movement of your foot on the floor, at all angles, which then comes up through the hip. You can't replicate that movement dynamic when you're on blades and can only move at right angles. You can make it look like you are by moving your core and upper body to give the impression of Latin, but the true movement isn't there. So why choose rhythms that fight the ice surface? Why not choose rhythms that take advantage of the ice? P/C aren't complaining about the various waltz rhythms for example, as far as I can tell.

 

[Cherub721]

If the 2011-2012 SDs are anything to go by, then IMO, the only way the Latin SDs will be good dance-wise is if they get rid of all the levels for FW and make it all GOE-based and get rid of the pattern dance and maybe some IJS required elements.

I like this idea! Scoring would be an absolute trainwreck though since the judges hardly differentiate anyone's GOE and PCS anymore. Everyone would literally be tied within .2 after the SD.

 

[sap5]

I like this idea! Scoring would be an absolute trainwreck though since the judges hardly differentiate anyone's GOE and PCS anymore. Everyone would literally be tied within .2 after the SD.

How about just giving golds to everyone? Everyone can be a winner!

 

[Twilight1]

"At Last" and "Somewhere In Time" with "Ne Me Quitte Pas" as their foray into Latin? I love them as coaches and from what I can tell they are wonderful people, but they were my fridge break for most of their competitive career.
I did like their Gotan Project FD though.

Their career started in 1998 not 2005-2007.

And your fridge break had a great reptetoire and coaching the students you are godsmacked over.

lmfao. The irony of this is hilarious.

 

[Dobre]

Torvill & Dean's 94 Rhumba was many things, but not cheap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLb-BeA1nNM

Personally, I have no problem with hot/sexy/fun/cheeky and/or entertaining Latin programs. I love them quite a lot if the performers are committed 100%.

Neither would I have any problem with more authentic Latin programs, modeled less off ballroom Latin & more off "real" Latin dance. I can't help but think that there is a woeful lack of actual Latino ice dancers and that an influx of competitors who have really grown up within the Latin culture within the sport would broaden the horizons of Latin ice dance. (Just as I feel Hurtado & Diaz's paso added a more authentic feel to the paso doble). But I appreciate how today many rinks try to bring in experts from the dance world in order to work with the skaters. And that skaters, themselves, seek out experts to work with as well.

2012, IMO, was not the best example of Latin hip movement; but--then--the junior samba in 2014-2015 had a lot of rather head-ringing whistles. Striving for improvement can be a good thing. I also have to add that Efimova & Zhao's winning juvenile Latin FD at U.S. Nationals was so fun. (She is a diva in the making). I kept wishing we could bring the juveniles on during the ice resurfacing of the Senior FD performances just to liven things up in the midst of all the serious & soft free dances.

Some of history's Latin ice dance costumes, on the other hand, are definitely irredeemable.

 

[starrynight]

I always thought with Latin dances you arrived with your sense of humour and fun and left your serious side at home lol

Fascinated to see what P/C ultimately produce. I'm presuming no strappy neon dress or tiger outfit for Gabby?

 

[chapis]

And the main complaint from people last season were the repetitive styles, if ISU eliminate dance styles that not fit to the ice, the rhythms and styles could be even more limited. V/M were incredible with their SD last season, all people loved it, I wonder what they thought of that program?

 

[RoseRed]

Does all Latin music sound the same?, really? that is simply ignorance, there are many and different latin music. And I hope that people understand that the 4-5 pieces that skaters always choose don´t reflect all our music. And this comment sounds even weirder coming from someone who has been widely criticized because her programs all look the same.

I read that comment and I was like, "what? " I'm not very familiar with latin music, but I know it doesn't all sound the same. That's like saying "all classical music sounds the same". Just knowing how many different styles of latin dance there are, obviously there were be lots of different music.

I don't really see the problem here. P/C are stating their very own opinion on Latin dances and why they don't like to do them. Others are free to disagree but they don't like it. Period.

(And considering the music that gets used when there is a Latin SD or used to be a Latin OD, they do have a point about the music sounding the same. 'Cause half the music usually is the same )

But they didn't say that the music used for latin rhythms in ID sounds the same, she said "Latin music always kind of sounds the same for me". P/C like to choose less common music, so I wouldn't expect them to choose the same songs, but it isn't like there isn't a ton of different latin music out there. Seems to me like she hasn't listened to enough latin music if she thinks it all sounds the same. Saying it's all the same is almost... lazy. The Spanish language doesn't even sound the same in all the different Latin American countries, so why would the music? Don't get me wrong, I like this team, but I didn't love these comments.

Admin Edit: Please do not violate copyright laws by imbedding images here.

 

[VGThuy]

This discipline is enough subjective now , if they eliminate the pattern and required elements, ice dance would be basically a popularity contest.

It's already a popularity contest with the Tech callers. I just want better dancing and more actual dancing in SDs again!

 

[oleada]

T

Neither would I have any problem with more authentic Latin programs, modeled less off ballroom Latin & more off "real" Latin dance. I can't help but think that there is a woeful lack of actual Latino ice dancers and that an influx of competitors who have really grown up within the Latin culture within the sport would broaden the horizons of Latin ice dance. (Just as I feel Hurtado & Diaz's paso added a more authentic feel to the paso doble). But I appreciate how today many rinks try to bring in experts from the dance world in order to work with the skaters. And that skaters, themselves, seek out experts to work with as well.

.

Thank you for posting that. It's how I feel, and far more eloquent. I am. I am not a dancer, but I am Latin, and ballroom Latin is nothing like the Latin dancing I grew up with. It feels completely inauthentic to me.

(I think ice dance could be a big hit in the Latino demographic in the US, but obviously, it's very expensive and not something most Latinos really know anything about)

 

[VGThuy]

What year do you guys think had the best collection of Latin OSP/OD/SDs? I remember people crapping on Anissina/Peizerat's 2000 OD at the time with slow section being nothing but sex noises and looking like fish our of water and such, but you know, looking back, they did have a lot of character that I felt was sorely missing in the 2011-2012 dances.