U.S. Men 2025-26 Discussion - Quad God and the Mere Mortals

[Karen-W]

I understand what you mean and I agree. Yes he can be selected but all I want to say is that Olympic Games is not JGP Ankara... it's a different level and in my opinion someone who has no experience on that level should not have his senior premiere at the most importand event of all no matter what the junior scoring says. Not if you have other options. Neither of all possible men who will get the 2 spots besides Ilia will have a chance to win a medal. So my choice would be Max. He doesn't have the highest score but consistent around 223 and he proved to be a fighter no matter what life is throwing at him

This is such a ridiculous line of reasoning. Taking Kazanecki out of the discussion, Naumov still doesn't beat either Hiwatashi or Torgashev in any numerical analysis.

Why not just be honest with yourself and the rest of us and cut out all the faulty pretzel-twisting and instead just say that you want Naumov on the team for purely sentimental reasons?

 

[Kiki5375]

This is such a ridiculous line of reasoning. Taking Kazanecki out of the discussion, Naumov still doesn't beat either Hiwatashi or Torgashev in any numerical analysis.

Why not just be honest with yourself and the rest of us and cut out all the faulty pretzel-twisting and instead just say that you want Naumov on the team for purely sentimental reasons?

As I said "My choice would be"
No need to be so rude

 

[gkelly]

Because the junior is showing more future promise and neither of those two have ever come close to delivering on the promise they showed at the same age as Lucius. Here's a comparison of their fall scores scores this season - keep in mind, Lucius skating only juniors this fall has had one less jumping pass and no quads in the SP

No quads in the junior SP is true.

Juniors and seniors have the exact same number of jumping passes in both programs. The difference between the junior and the senior free skate elements is that seniors do both a choreographic sequence and a leveled step sequence, whereas juniors only do the choreo sequence now.

 

[Kiki5375]

So you think Lucius can be compared to Ilia and Yuma since he was so good at JGP? Same number of jumping passes and all?

 

[her grace]

I understand what you mean and I agree. Yes he can be selected but all I want to say is that Olympic Games is not JGP Ankara... it's a different level and in my opinion someone who has no experience on that level should not have his senior premiere at the most importand event of all no matter what the junior scoring says. Not if you have other options. Neither of all possible men who will get the 2 spots besides Ilia will have a chance to win a medal. So my choice would be Max. He doesn't have the highest score but consistent around 223 and he proved to be a fighter no matter what life is throwing at him

Polina Edmunds would like a word.

 

[skateboy]

I'd love to see Ilia, Tomoki and Max on the Olympic team. But, even if they are the top three at Nats, I realize that's wishful thinking.

 

[Winnipeg]

I don't see how any current skater can beat Ilia M. (unless he makes a few, not just one, mistake(s)).

 

[Capt. DeSoto]

I don't see how any current skater can beat Ilia M. (unless he makes a few, not just one, mistake(s)).

The drama is about who is getting the third assignment. The first two are universally understood to be going to Ilia and Jason. Ilia could go out there and do snow angels at center ice for four minutes, come in dead last, and still not lose his assignment.

 

[Karen-W]

As I said "My choice would be"
No need to be so rude

The part I took exception to was trying to find some sort of numerical justification for putting Naumov on the team - as if that steady mid-220 score range he's had all season is something to tout. It's not. Especially when both Hiwatashi and Torgashev (who you also mentioned in your original post as preferring to put on the team over Kazanecki) have higher average & median scores from the fall season.

It's fine if you want Naumov on the team for sentimental reasons - all I would ask is for folks to have the intellectual honesty to admit that their reasons for wanting him on the team have nothing to do with how he's actually skated in comparison to the rest of the US men this season. Who knows? Maybe his perennial pewter medal spot will finally prove lucky for him.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

The first two are universally understood to be going to Ilia and Jason. Ilia could go out there and do snow angels at center ice for four minutes, come in dead last, and still not lose his assignment.

Same with Jason, I think

 

[Karen-W]

Same with Jason, I think

Ehhhhhh... I think Jason needs to show his 3A is back on more solid ground than it's been on this past fall. Mind, the Nats tech panel is going to overlook anything but the most egregious of under-rotations, so as long as Jason can stand his 3A up and land on one foot without a visible step out in both programs, but especially the FS where we need him skating at his best for the TE in Milano, then his spot is locked. But if that 3A is still a mess... All bets may be off.

 

[Vagabond]

This is such a ridiculous line of reasoning. Taking Kazanecki out of the discussion, Naumov still doesn't beat either Hiwatashi or Torgashev in any numerical analysis.

Why not just be honest with yourself and the rest of us and cut out all the faulty pretzel-twisting and instead just say that you want Naumov on the team for purely sentimental reasons?

Please don't be so rude.

 

[Karen-W]

Please don't be so rude.

Since when did it become rude to point out intellectual dishonesty?

 

[PRlady]

Since when did it become rude to point out intellectual dishonesty?

It’s just a matter of tone, language, and assuming “intellectual dishonesty” when most people don’t keep scoring Excel spreadsheets. Also, Max’s courage can’t be quantified.

I think all that’s necessary, given that we all know you keep careful track of numbers, is a bit of polite grace towards those considering other factors or holding other opinions.

 

[Kiki5375]

It’s just a matter of tone, language, and assuming “intellectual dishonesty” when most people don’t keep scoring Excel spreadsheets. Also, Max’s courage can’t be quantified.

I think all that’s necessary, given that we all know you keep careful track of numbers, is a bit of polite grace towards those considering other factors or holding other opinions.

Thank you

 

[Karen-W]

It’s just a matter of tone, language, and assuming “intellectual dishonesty” when most people don’t keep scoring Excel spreadsheets. Also, Max’s courage can’t be quantified.

I think all that’s necessary, given that we all know you keep careful track of numbers, is a bit of polite grace towards those considering other factors or holding other opinions.

Then perhaps that's what should have been said in the first place. And perhaps also don't throw Torgashev in as a red herring to detract from the sentimental reasons for wanting Naumov on the team when downplaying the reasons why Kazanecki could wind up being selected.

I did provide numbers in my response and the poster came back at me with a weak attempt to use those numbers to support Naumov on the team, completely ignoring the fact that their other, alleged preferred skater over Kazanecki has even stronger numbers than Naumov.

If grace is wanted or expected, then perhaps everyone who wants Naumov on the team can just say "don't come at me with numbers, my heart wants Namov on the team because I feel badly for how he lost his parents, and I just want to happy cry for him?" and those of us who aren't as sentimentally inclined will just leave the numbers out of it.

I've been saying for months now, and anyone who has read this thread consistently during that time, that I think it's really going to come down to whomever finishes 3rd at Nats. Max may very well do it and if he does, I'll certainly be happy for him. Or he may wind up with a pewter medal again with Kazanecki in 3rd and the USFS could just name him to the team, regardless of how close the score is between he and Lucius. But let's stop pretending that his scores & results this fall justify him being put on the team more than any of the 7 other guys who could finish 3-10th (Hiwatashi, Torgashev, Kazanecki, Sanchez, Kapeikis, Pulkinen, Ma). Feel good, heart-wrenching, "Rudy-esque" type of story? Sure.

 

[BittyBug]

...all I want to say is that Olympic Games is not JGP Ankara... it's a different level and in my opinion someone who has no experience on that level should not have his senior premiere at the most importand event of all no matter what the junior scoring says. Not if you have other options.

Polina Edmunds would like a word.

 

[BittyBug]

Polina Edmunds would like a word.

LOL - should have read the whole thread before posting.

 

[panda42]

I understand that the most likely scenario is Ilia, Jason and whoever finishes third at Nats. It probably won't happen, but what if Jason doesn't compete or finishes off the podium? He could appeal and be named to the team anyway, but that would be one way 2 others could potentially go. Based on scores alone, it would seem that Tomoki or Andrew might have a slight edge over Max. I do get why so many are rooting for Max, though.

 

[Aceon6]

I’m hearing rumblings that Jason needs to show a rotated 3A in both programs. If it’s disappeared again, the team strategy goes out the window. Yes, his BOW is impressive, but it includes mostly rotated 3As.

 

[Karen-W]

I’m hearing rumblings that Jason needs to show a rotated 3A in both programs. If it’s disappeared again, the team strategy goes out the window. Yes, his BOW is impressive, but it includes mostly rotated 3As.

Like, legit rumblings from ?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I understand that the most likely scenario is Ilia, Jason and whoever finishes third at Nats. It probably won't happen, but what if Jason doesn't compete or finishes off the podium? He could appeal and be named to the team anyway, but that would be one way 2 others could potentially go.

There's no such thing as an "appeal". There are criteria for who will be named to the team and the committee will consider all of the criteria. Nationals results are one of the criteria but far from the only one.

 

[Karen-W]

There's no such thing as an "appeal". There are criteria for who will be named to the team and the committee will consider all of the criteria. Nationals results are one of the criteria but far from the only one.

Well, he could petition to be included in the Selection Pool, but that's unnecessary since he is already IN the Selection Pool by virtue of both his 2025 Worlds finish and being in the top 24 of the current season WR.

At that point, once the Selection Pool has been created, the International Committee has a lot of leeway to select whomever they want for the team. But, I'd say that if Jason withdraws from Nationals he likely kills his chances since his 3A is so questionable right now.

 

[Aceon6]

Like, legit rumblings from ?

One level down from a good local source.

 

[AYS]

I’m hearing rumblings that Jason needs to show a rotated 3A in both programs. If it’s disappeared again, the team strategy goes out the window. Yes, his BOW is impressive, but it includes mostly rotated 3As.

Is this true? Isn't he also leading everyone except Ilia just based on BOW across just the GP and Challenger season, where we didn't see a completely clean set of programs from him.

 

[Aceon6]

Is this true? Isn't he also leading everyone except Ilia just based on BOW across just the GP and Challenger season, where we didn't see a completely clean set of programs from him.

I probably should have said “3As without falls called Q or better” Again, this is more about the team event splitting, not about Jason making the team which is pretty much a given unless he implodes at Nats.

 

[her grace]

So far, it looks like the second man will be a weak link for the U.S. team, and based on how they're currently skating, it's something of a wash for whether an American man could end up better than 4th/5th in the Team event final.

Here's the SB LP scores for possible team finalist contenders

Siao Him Fa [FRA] 196.08
Grassl [ITA] 194.72
Sato [JPN] 194.02
Kagiyama [JPN] 193.64
Egadze [GEO] 179.32
Brown [USA] 171.20 [he was 180.88 at 2025 Worlds]
Sadovsky [CAN] 168.47
Aymoz [FRA] 168.41
Hiwatashi [USA] 166.64
Gogolev [CAN] 164.87
Torgashev [USA] 161.84

Japan and Italy "should" beat the second American man regardless of who he is. If Egadze hits, he "should" beat the American, too (too much technical firepower and absurdly-high PCS). Depending on which country makes the final, France on paper beats the US (but both French men are pretty mercurial) and Canada "should" lose to Brown, but both Sadovsky and Gogolev beat Brown at Finlandia so not a sure thing there.

It's looking like a Rippon decision where the second male skate, regardless of who he is, won't contribute many points to the team total.