2025-26 US Pairs Discussion - Milano-Bound By Way of Beijing & St. Louis

Jammers said:
The fact the the USFS sent a team that didn't even have the minimums for Worlds to qualify the 3rd spot for the US in Pairs makes what they did even more egregious.
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You know, when you put it that way, it really is galling that the USFS not only sent them but has doubled down on giving them competition opportunity after competition opportunity in the nearly 2 months since they failed so spectacularly at Skate to Milano.
 
The Selection Committee has a lot to answer for. They keep treating Shin/Nagy as if they are the third-best American team, but here's their head-to head records this season.

Shin/Nagy versus
Efimova/Mitrofanov 0-1 [lost to them at John Nicks]
McBeath/Parkman 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and GPdF]
Chan/Howe 0-1 lost to them at John Nicks]
Liu/Bedard 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and Ice Challenge]
Flores/Wang 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]
Williams/Lewer 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]

If anything, they're 6th-best behind Efimova/Mitrofanov, Kam/O'Shea, Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman, and Liu/Bedard. And the evidence keeps piling up: Four American pairs teams competed this weekend and Efimova/Mitrofanov, Chan/Howe, and Liu/Bedard each scored higher than Shin/Nagy.

Can't wait to see how USFS justifies assigning them to the Olympic team with Kam/O'Shea. :angryfire
 
her grace said:
The Selection Committee has a lot to answer for. They keep treating Shin/Nagy as if they are the third-best American team, but here's their head-to head records this season.

Shin/Nagy versus
Efimova/Mitrofanov 0-1 [lost to them at John Nicks]
McBeath/Parkman 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and GPdF]
Chan/Howe 0-1 lost to them at John Nicks]
Liu/Bedard 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and Ice Challenge]
Flores/Wang 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]
Williams/Lewer 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]

If anything, they're 6th-best behind Efimova/Mitrofanov, Kam/O'Shea, Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman, and Liu/Bedard. And the evidence keeps piling up: Four American pairs teams competed this weekend and Efimova/Mitrofanov, Chan/Howe, and Liu/Bedard each scored higher than Shin/Nagy.

Can't wait to see how USFS justifies assigning them to the Olympic team with Kam/O'Shea. :angryfire
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I hate to say this but does one of them have a family member making mega, mega donations to USFSA?
 
her grace said:
The Selection Committee has a lot to answer for. They keep treating Shin/Nagy as if they are the third-best American team, but here's their head-to head records this season.

Shin/Nagy versus
Efimova/Mitrofanov 0-1 [lost to them at John Nicks]
McBeath/Parkman 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and GPdF]
Chan/Howe 0-1 lost to them at John Nicks]
Liu/Bedard 0-2 [lost to them at John Nicks and Ice Challenge]
Flores/Wang 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]
Williams/Lewer 1-0 [beat them at John Nicks]

If anything, they're 6th-best behind Efimova/Mitrofanov, Kam/O'Shea, Chan/Howe, McBeath/Parkman, and Liu/Bedard. And the evidence keeps piling up: Four American pairs teams competed this weekend and Efimova/Mitrofanov, Chan/Howe, and Liu/Bedard each scored higher than Shin/Nagy.

Can't wait to see how USFS justifies assigning them to the Olympic team with Kam/O'Shea. :angryfire
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Not only that but Shin/Nagy have not managed to out-score the lowest season scores of either Efimova/Mitrofanov or Chan/Howe. They have managed to finally, this weekend, post a score at IceChallenge that beats the lowest scores from Kam/O'Shea and McBeath/Parkman - by 3 points and 1 point respectively.

Let's also not forget that next weekend, if this ridiculous SkAm assignment holds, they're scheduled to head-to-head with Plazas/Fernandez, who have also been routinely outscoring them as the season has progressed. What are the chances that Plazas/Fernandez beat them?

I'd argue that calling them the 6th best US team is generous and they're actually the 7th best behind Plazas/Fernandez as well as the 5 teams you already named.

The only way the USFS justifies naming them to the Olympic team with Kam/O'Shea is if they somehow manage to wind up on the podium in 4th with Chan/Howe behind them in the final placements. Or if they manage to sneak onto the podium next week at SkAm (doubtful - I'd put my money on HocKun or AkoRakh if they can accept a very late invitation).

BTW, if the USFS really wants a head-to-head between Shin/Nagy and Plazas/Fernandez, they could just assign both of them to Golden Spin since each team has only had 2 Challenger so far this fall.
 
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I like S/N but not to the detriment of the other US teams. I think they will be good, but in another season or two. It took Ashley Cain a couple of seasons to upgrade her pair skills after not doing pairs for a few years. Right now I favor K/O and C/H for the Olympics. S/N would have to improve their scores and consistancy very quickly if I was deciding the Olympic team. At this point I'm wondering if S/N will improve enough to be selected to the Worlds team.
 
Spiralgraph said:
I like S/N but not to the detriment of the other US teams. I think they will be good, but in another season or two. It took Ashley Cain a couple of seasons to upgrade her pair skills after not doing pairs for a few years. Right now I favor K/O and C/H for the Olympics. S/N would have to improve their scores and consistancy very quickly if I was deciding the Olympic team. At this point I'm wondering if S/N will improve enough to be selected to the Worlds team.
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I'm quite sure they won't be selected for the Worlds team since both EfiMit and McBark will also be eligible for those 3 spots. I don't think they're even making it to 4CCs this season unless they improve a LOT before Nats. Not only will EfiMit and McBark likely earn two of those 3 spots, but they'll still be battling it out with PlaFern and LiuBed for that 3rd 4CCs spot.
 
Karen-W said:
I suppose grudging congratulations are in order for ShiNagy who, finally, at their 6th international comp, achieved the Worlds CTES min.
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Why begrudging? I'm sure that was written tongue in cheek :) . The powers that be may have made some questionable decisions concerning competition assignments etc.; the skaters deserve support. I'm very glad to hear Shin/Nagy have been successful in achieving their minimums. I wish them well - just like every other US team; and for that matter, every team and every skater.

I admit to sometimes hoping that one team/skater doesn't skate their best. I'm trying to overcome that - I can do better. So - I want them ALL to skate their best.:wall:
 
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Copying the relevant part of my post in the US Men's thread -

The official USFS/USOPC Selection criteria gives the Selection Committee pretty wide latitude once the Selection Pool is set. Here's who qualifies for the Selection Pool:
  • Top 5 from the Selection Pool Calculation Table
  • Top 5 from Nationals
  • Top 24 from Current Season World Rankings (we still have another 4 weeks of comps to go, but here's who on that list right now - 5 McBeath/Parkman, 7 Efimova/Mitrofanov, 10 Chan/Howe, 14 Kam/O'Shea, 16 Shin/Nagy, 19 Moss/Galbavy, 21 Liu/Bedard; others outside the top 24 - 27 Plazas/Fernandez, 32 Williams/Lewer)
  • Top 10 from Worlds 2025 (Efimova/Mitrofanov, Kam/O'Shea)
  • Olympic Medalist from Individual Event (no one)
  • Discretionary Inclusion by the Selection Committee's Discipline Group
  • Petition Athletes
Teams in RED are currently not eligible due to a lack of CTES mins or citizenship and the strong likelihood it will not be obtained by the January 11, 2026 deadline.

Once the Selection Pool has been determined, here is the criteria the Selection Committee is supposed to consider:

7.2 DEFINE THE DISCRETIONARY CRITERIA TO BE USED:
To field the most competitive Team, the Selection Committee will take into consideration the criteria set forth below, which includes scores and placements in events, difficulty of the field, performance impact, and head-to-head match ups, to determine the athletes/teams who will have the best chance to win the maximum number of medals at the Games.

• Calculation of performance data of athletes/teams in the athlete pool as listed in Appendix B.​
o This data will include competition results and other reports/data relating to detailed results sheets of the competitions listed in Section 5.​
o The data will provide a body of work within a twelve-month period that demonstrates the athlete’s/team’s consistency and ability to achieve medal potential scores at the Games.​
o The technical elements, program components and total score data derived from protocols after the conclusion of each segment of competition specifically looking at consistency, competitiveness, and trending scores, will be a primary focus on discussing the ranking of the athletes/teams and determining the athletes that will have the most performance impact at the Games​
o All athletes in the Athlete Pool will be evaluated on the selection criteria outlined above.​
​
The Selection Committee will formally meet as soon as practical, after the conclusion of the competition at the 2026 U.S. Figure Skating Championships for each respective discipline (women, men, ice dance, pairs) or at the conclusion of all of the Championships disciplines to determine the respective nominees to the Team and substitute athletes in ranked order. A quorum of the Selection Committee must be present for the nominated athletes to the Team to be official. A quorum is defined as a two-thirds majority of the Selection Committee present either in person or via ZOOM and/or telephone conference call. A two-thirds majority vote of the Selection Committee actually voting is needed to approve the nominations and substitute athletes/teams.
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@her grace did a great job in outlining the results of the head-to-head match ups so far this season upthread.

A.H.Black said:
I admit to sometimes hoping that one team/skater doesn't skate their best. I'm trying to overcome that - I can do better. So - I want them ALL to skate their best.
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I normally do too and everyone knows I'm a pretty big cheerleader when it comes to US pairs in general, so it's pretty significant that the USFS' actions in propping up ShiNagy with endless competition opportunities compared to other teams in the mix have soured me on them. I do reserve the right to change my mind about them should they start producing higher scores during the next Olympic cycle (presuming they stick together - this is one of the longer partnerships Nagy has managed over the years he's been competing both in juniors and seniors, lol).
 
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Karen-W said:
Copying the relevant part of my post in the US Men's thread -

The official USFS/USOPC Selection criteria gives the Selection Committee pretty wide latitude once the Selection Pool is set. Here's who qualifies for the Selection Pool:
  • Top 5 from the Selection Pool Calculation Table
  • Top 5 from Nationals
  • Top 24 from Current Season World Rankings (we still have another 4 weeks of comps to go, but here's who on that list right now - 5 McBeath/Parkman, 7 Efimova/Mitrofanov, 10 Chan/Howe, 14 Kam/O'Shea, 16 Shin/Nagy, 19 Moss/Galbavy, 21 Liu/Bedard; others outside the top 24 - 27 Plazas/Fernandez, 32 Williams/Lewer)
  • Top 10 from Worlds 2025 (Efimova/Mitrofanov, Kam/O'Shea)
  • Olympic Medalist from Individual Event (no one)
  • Discretionary Inclusion by the Selection Committee's Discipline Group
  • Petition Athletes
Teams in RED are currently not eligible due to a lack of CTES mins or citizenship and the strong likelihood it will not be obtained by the January 11, 2026 deadline.

Once the Selection Pool has been determined, here is the criteria the Selection Committee is supposed to consider:


@her grace did a great job in outlining the results of the head-to-head match ups so far this season upthread.


I normally do too and everyone knows I'm a pretty big cheerleader when it comes to US pairs in general, so it's pretty significant that the USFS' actions in propping up ShiNagy with endless competition opportunities compared to other teams in the mix have soured me on them. I do reserve the right to change my mind about them should they start producing higher scores during the next Olympic cycle (presuming they stick together - this is one of the longer partnerships Nagy has managed over the years he's been competing both in juniors and seniors, lol).
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Does Lewer have citizenship?
 
Oh, I do hope that Shin/Naggy do not read these or any other "grudging" comments about them. If they do... it is not going to help them to skate better, quite opposite. Much more for Audrey who, imho, has a personality type/psychological make up to blame and reproach herself for everything ( futile and destructive spending of inner energy) even if there is no slightest reasons to do this. I am not American; so I do not have any idea how American system works but I understand how frustrating it could be to see that only one pair is, as to say, favorite to get assignments, still... still I do feel sad for Shin/Naggy. IMO they truly has a great potential. Either it will be realized or no...no one knows.
 
jmtfti said:
Chan/Howe have replaced Shin/Nagy for Skate America: https://isu-skating.com/figure-skating/entries/isu-gp-skate-america-2025/?type=11813728
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skatfan said:
Wow - that’s a surprise!
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It shouldn't have been and didn't need to happen like this.

I completely understand the USFS holding off on giving Chan/Howe the assignment until it was clear that they were not going to pick up a 2nd assignment elsewhere - but especially not Finlandia which already has 2 US teams and a field as deep as the NHK field. That's what I expected to happen - especially with Shin/Nagy, Liu/Bedard and Chan/Howe all competing this past week.

Someone at the USFS really did themselves no favors by updating the Int'l Assignments page to show Shin/Nagy as assigned last Monday. Not only did they open themselves up for a full week of criticism for what appeared to be blatant favoritism and ignoring, once again, actual competitive results & scores which caused the US to lose what should have been an easily attained 3rd Olympic spot, but, ultimately, they also set Shin/Nagy up for public humiliation with a last-minute change like this. It was one thing for the ISU grid to show Shin/Nagy when the information was out there in the public sphere (thanks Michael Slipchuck) that the ISU required the host feds to "name" their host TBD spots by Sept 15th and the USFS' own Int'l Assignments page still listed the spot as TBD, but they should have just left the spot as TBD instead of changing it last Monday.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the USFS - both their communications team and the Int'l Committee - to know exactly what has gone on and how this has played out over the last few months.
 
Karen-W said:
It shouldn't have been and didn't need to happen like this.
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Stop with your judgmental opinions about what others should know or think. I was surprised and am entitled to that.

You really have been stepping up being the mostest knowledgeable fan without a shred of humility. Let the rest of us be the kind of fans and posters we are in peace.
 
skatfan said:
Stop with your judgmental opinions about what others should know or think. I was surprised and am entitled to that.

You really have been stepping up being the mostest knowledgeable fan without a shred of humility. Let the rest of us be the kind of fans and posters we are in peace.
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I wasn't attacking you for your surprise and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I was just as surprised as anyone this afternoon when I saw the news.

What I meant is that it shouldn't have been a surprise because the entire situation could have been avoided by the USFS. It would have been pretty simple to have quickly updated their website on Tuesday to show the pairs host spot was still TBD, especially as the week wore on and their social media team didn't put out a post confirming the Shin/Nagy selection. They let the speculation float for 6 days that they were, stupidly, playing favorites, and only replaced Shin/Nagy after they posted the lowest score yesterday of the 3 teams potentially under consideration still. It was horribly managed by the USFS and didn't have to be that way.
 
Karen-W said:
I wasn't attacking you for your surprise and I'm sorry if it came off that way. I was just as surprised as anyone this afternoon when I saw the news.

What I meant is that it shouldn't have been a surprise because the entire situation could have been avoided by the USFS. It would have been pretty simple to have quickly updated their website on Tuesday to show the pairs host spot was still TBD, especially as the week wore on and their social media team didn't put out a post confirming the Shin/Nagy selection. They let the speculation float for 6 days that they were, stupidly, playing favorites, and only replaced Shin/Nagy after they posted the lowest score yesterday of the 3 teams potentially under consideration still. It was horribly managed by the USFS and didn't have to be that way.
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Ok, that is much clearer. I appreciate the apology.

I do agree with your larger point that this has been badly mishandled by USFS.
 
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