U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

peibeck said:
(((RIP Ilia and Andrew)))

:p
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They need the third man to keep 3 spots for the Olympics.

Look, blame the international judges. They love Jason's skating even without a triple axel. He out scored Camden in the fall. If Camden scores well in the short at 4CCs, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jason does not go to Worlds. Camden needs to prove himself in front of the international judges. I think that’s why Jason was named provisionally to the Worlds team and Camden is first alternate.
 
Vagabond said:
Maybe it's time to change the selection criteria for future seasons.
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I don't know that I agree with this. By the time Nationals rolls around, the USFS has a lot of information & data points already to consider from the fall season.

Honestly, I think the USFS has done the best it can here, and given itself a huge out with the "Return to Play" conditional assignment of Jason to the Worlds team. Camden is saying that he has figured out what is an optimal training/work balance and he definitely looked better at Nats than he has in a long time. If he can demonstrate that Nats wasn't just a fluke, I really think that Jason will be cut loose and replaced by Camden. Ideally, the USFS doesn't want a 20th or 24th place finish from our 3rd guy - they want something respectable like at least 12th place from both #2 & 3. That's a bad look, even if his name is Jason Brown.
 
Jonas said:
Wow, this is a LOT for a Monday morning, LOL!!

First, I feel absolutely deflated for Jimmy Ma! I can't help but wonder what kind of discussion we would all be having had Jimmy Ma nailed his FS finished 3rd. I'm sure there'd be the same apprehensions about sending Jimmy to Boston due to his relatively lower scoring potential and his own history of inconsistencies. For me personally though, I would be A LOT more peeved this morning if it was Jimmy that was being bumped off by Jason.

RE: our 3rd men's Olympic spot -- as far as I'm concerned, that'll boil down to whether Torgy can finish 12th in Boston. If he maintains this level of skating, it's very doable in my book. Doesn't really matter to me who our 3rd guy is, though admittedly, I have far more faith in Jason Brown producing a top 12 (in fact, I think he will finish in the top 12) than Camden.

That said -- my vote, for the little that it's worth, would've been for Camden going to Worlds. He showed up and skated well -- not top 12 in the World well, but well for him and given his situation. That says more to me than what Jason produced this season and I'll spare you all my cynical thoughts leave it at that.

Your thoughts...
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And Camden did skate to a fourth place finish once at Worlds.
 
Karen-W said:
But, really, all Jason's LIE does is confirm for me that he's a fake and root for him to fall flat on his a$$ at Worlds, even at the expense of a 3rd Olympic spot for our men.
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Ah, good to see you've at last let the mask slip.

Rukia said:
i think some of you all are reading a lot into a situation that we know very little about. Let's say Jason has boot issues that are causing him pain. He's no longer able to train for nats at a level that will give a good performance. This is an equipment issue with a direct effect on his ability to skate, thus the usfs would want to see that he's fixed it and trained to a level that would be competitive.

I mean this is all just fanfiction anyway, but at least mine is plausible lol
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Careful, now. We can't be using logic in this situation, we must all subscribe that Jason is a selfish greedy liar who should be banned for life while poor sweet innocent Camden who finished 20th at last year's Worlds and whose GP SP scores would have had him 38th is a slam-dunk to get the US men a third spot.
 
Didn’t Jason say recently that he’s been skating, or at least started the season, in three year old boots? That’s pretty wild to think it would ever be feasible to get his necessary jump content back with that old of equipment. Whether that’s a symptom of his poor planning or result of struggling with boot issues on the new pair, IDK…
 
NinjaTurtles said:
Didn’t Jason say recently that he’s been skating, or at least started the season, in three year old boots? That’s pretty wild to think it would ever be feasible to get his necessary jump content back with that old of equipment. Whether that’s a symptom of his poor planning or result of struggling with boot issues on the new pair, IDK…
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I seem to recall reading somewhere that Jason is fairly easy on his boots, though I may be muddling that up with someone else. But it would actually make a lot of sense if his boots were working at the start of the season, then unexpectedly broke down, and he had issues breaking in new ones.
 
On the bright side, at least there's a buzz about US men this t around.
Rukia said:
i think some of you all are reading a lot into a situation that we know very little about. Let's say Jason has boot issues that are causing him pain. He's no longer able to train for nats at a level that will give a good performance. This is an equipment issue with a direct effect on his ability to skate, thus the usfs would want to see that he's fixed it and trained to a level that would be competitive.

I mean this is all just fanfiction anyway, but at least mine is plausible lol
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Hmmm....makes me think about other skaters who said they had boot issues, foot issues, hip issues, etc. They stated a specific issue. The "equipment issues" is ambiguous. Being fans who pay close attention to details and who have concern for skaters' welfare and their participation in the big events...we may become suspicious when kept in the dark vs what the specific issue/s is/are so just be completely clear about the situation. Otherwise I am...??? Something just doesn't add up.
But I wish Jason the best and hope in the end, the best decision is made.
 
misskarne said:
I seem to recall reading somewhere that Jason is fairly easy on his boots, though I may be muddling that up with someone else. But it would actually make a lot of sense if his boots were working at the start of the season, then unexpectedly broke down, and he had issues breaking in new ones.
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Then why not say that. I am having boot issues that keep me from skating up to my level.
 
misskarne said:
Ah, good to see you've at last let the mask slip.
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LOL. Listen, someone's lying here. I'm sure you'll defend Jason to the end and say that he didn't lie last week about his reason for withdrawing. If that's true, then I would urge you to call upon him have the integrity and respect for his place as a role model of good sportsmanship to decline the conditional Worlds assignment which was given to him on false pretenses by the USFS' International Committee.

The Return to Play protocol is quite clear. It does not include any mention of equipment related issues that force a withdrawal from Nationals or any other event. It is only medical/health related - which is why the Evaluation Committee consists of the athlete's attending physician as well as both the USFS' Director High Performance Medical & Performance Services and the USFS' medical representative.


Per U.S. Figure Skating’s Competition Compliance Agreement, any athlete injured and/or ill to the extent that requires surgery and/or ongoing medical treatment and/or is otherwise unable to train consistently, effectively, and according to their seasonal plan, and which may therefore jeopardize the athlete’s ability to compete for Team USA, the athlete agrees to communicate the situation to U.S. Figure Skating Senior Director, Athlete High Performance, with a copy to U.S. Figure Skating Director, High Performance Medical and Performance Services and U.S. Figure Skating Manager, Team USA. Under such circumstances, the athlete authorizes U.S. Figure Skating to request a Return to Play Plan &Status Report. Upon receiving the Return to Play Plan & Status Report, U.S. Figure Skating may share the information with the International Committee Chair and the Chair of the Sports Science and Medicine Committee and/or the Vice Chair of Medical Services for the Sports Science and Medicine Committee. This information will be handled with the utmost discretion and will be used to enable U.S. Figure Skating to help facilitate access to services that may support the athlete’s effort to recover.
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So, is Jason lying about the true nature of his withdrawal? Or is the USFS' merely using him as a carrot/stick to Camden & Maxim to keep up the good skating they delivered at Nationals with follow up good skates at 4CCs? Seems kind of gross if it's the latter, that Jason would allow himself to be used in this way and highly disrespectful of his fellow competitors. I would hope he is better than this and not allowing this for self-promotion or, as some others think, a stunt whore for the USFS/Boston organizers to sell out the remaining tickets for the Men's SP at Worlds.

Either way you see it, it isn't a good look.

And I say all this as someone who can see, on paper, why Jason actually IS the best choice for the Worlds team at this point. I'd have less of a problem if he'd come clean about an injury instead of "equipment issues" because that is clearly not a part of what would allow him to be cleared through the Return to Play protocol to compete. And, if he was being truthful about the withdrawal being only equipment issues, then the USFS should have just outright named him to the team and not given itself the Return to Play protocol out should Camden and/or Max step up at 4CCs in a few weeks. Jason would still have the ability to withdraw without the Return to Play protocol. All that did was expose the lie, regardless of who is the one doing the lying.
 
Karen-W said:
LOL. Listen, someone's lying here. I'm sure you'll defend Jason to the end and say that he didn't lie last week about his reason for withdrawing. If that's true, then I would urge you to call upon him have the integrity and respect for his place as a role model of good sportsmanship to decline the conditional Worlds assignment which was given to him on false pretenses by the USFS' International Committee.
....

Either way you see it, it isn't a good look.
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I don't believe Jason is lying. But I know you are, if you're going to sit there and claim that if Jason had explained the full depth of his equipment issues you wouldn't be picking it apart looking for the slightest, tiniest excuse to launch a tirade at him.

I can tell you what's not a good look. It's not a good look that Jason has had to be ol' Mr Reliable for the US for years now. It's not a good look that the last two nonJason/nonIlia men sent to worlds have finished in the 20s. It's not a good look that we can say "yeah but ONE TIME they finished 5th" when Jason has been regularly clocking up these finishes. It's not a good look that we even have to be considering who is more likely to make the free skate.

It's not a good look that nearly a whole Olympic cycle after Jason had originally set his retirement date he is still the more reliable option than any of the men who are younger than him.
 
jlai said:
It is also possible that USFS doesn't follow its own protocol re: return to play without Jason's consent and if so, then Camden should go.
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Yup, they can absolutely override whatever Jason says/thinks. Here are the relevant sections of the Return to Play protocol -

Depending on the severity of the injury or illness, the athlete authorizes U.S. Figure Skating to request a Return to Play Plan & Status Report from the Director, High Performance Medical and Performance Services. After the review of the Return to Play & Status Report, U.S. Figure Skating reserves the right to assemble an injury/illness evaluation group and meet via conference call.

The evaluation group shall include:
• U.S. Figure Skating, Senior Director of Athlete High Performance
• Director, High Performance Medical and Performance Services
• Medical representative for U.S. Figure Skating
• U.S. Figure Skating International Committee Chair
• Athlete’s physician diagnosing the injury or illness
• Primary coach of the athlete

The athlete or the parents of the athlete, if a minor, may also participate in the meeting to discuss the injury or illness. The athlete will also be provided with the option to have an athlete representative as part of the evaluation group; however, this is not mandatory as such evaluations concern protected health information.

The purpose of the evaluation group is to provide the athlete, in a confidential manner, a support mechanism to communicate factual information to aid in the recovery and allow the athlete to compete at the highest level at the ISU World Championships. The athlete’s support staff (medical team, coach, etc.) will develop a plan to provide:

• A timeline for recovery and training that will achieve the performance goal agreed upon by the evaluation group.
• A timeline for communication on the progress of the athlete.
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So, this is step 1 - Jason & his team and the USFS will develop a timeline for both the performance goal & communication on the athlete's progress.

Step 2 is where the USFS has their out -

If the athlete is unable to progress in the timeline approved by the evaluation group, the coach and athlete must notify the Senior Director, Athlete High Performance and a follow-up conference call will be arranged to discuss the options for the athlete. The USOPC AAC representative for U.S. Figure Skating will be included in this meeting. At this point the athlete will decide whether to withdraw, or if the athlete decides that he/she is not ready to withdraw from the event, then the following will occur:

1) The evaluation group will work with the athlete and support staff to adjust the timeline, or
2) If it is determined by the evaluation group, in its sole discretion, that it is not in the best interest of the athlete and/or U.S. Figure Skating for the athlete to attend the World Championships, the evaluation group will recommend to the International Committee Chair that the athlete is replaced by the next (substitute)substitute athlete. The Chair of the International Committee will take the recommendation of the evaluation group to a vote by the appropriate Discipline Group to replace the athlete.
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There is a lot of wiggle room here for the USFS to do whatever it wants.
 
misskarne said:
I don't believe Jason is lying. But I know you are, if you're going to sit there and claim that if Jason had explained the full depth of his equipment issues you wouldn't be picking it apart looking for the slightest, tiniest excuse to launch a tirade at him.

I can tell you what's not a good look. It's not a good look that Jason has had to be ol' Mr Reliable for the US for years now. It's not a good look that the last two nonJason/nonIlia men sent to worlds have finished in the 20s. It's not a good look that we can say "yeah but ONE TIME they finished 5th" when Jason has been regularly clocking up these finishes. It's not a good look that we even have to be considering who is more likely to make the free skate.

It's not a good look that nearly a whole Olympic cycle after Jason had originally set his retirement date he is still the more reliable option than any of the men who are younger than him.
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You know what's not a good look? To stick around and take money from the USFS that could have been directed at supporting other skaters (if the pretty strong & consistent rumors over the past two years are to be believed). Given how his skating has been deteriorating over that same period, there was bound to come a time when it would catch up with him and the USFS.

Also, I don't see how you can bald-faced make the argument that he is a more reliable option than any of the men who are younger than him seeing how Torgashev HAS stepped up this season and put it together at last, or that he is a more reliable option than the JUNIOR skater who has a SP season average higher than Jason. But, Jason is lucky, yes, that none of the other men have really been able to put it together consistently enough to knock him off his over-priced perch.
 
Karen-W said:
The Return to Play protocol is quite clear. It does not include any mention of equipment related issues that force a withdrawal from Nationals or any other event. It is only medical/health related - which is why the Evaluation Committee consists of the athlete's attending physician as well as both the USFS' Director High Performance Medical & Performance Services and the USFS' medical representative.
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Karen, get a grip. Here’s what you yourself just quoted:

Per U.S. Figure Skating’s Competition Compliance Agreement, any athlete injured and/or ill to the extent that requires surgery and/or ongoing medical treatment and/or is otherwise unable to train consistently, effectively, and according to their seasonal plan,
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The return to play protocol that you just posted yourself include the words “otherwise unable to train consistently effectively and according to their seasonal plan” as one of the conditions that allows USFSA to activate the return to play protocol.

I’m saying this to you as someone who does not like Jason and roots against him. Your whole rant is based on nothing.
 
Theatregirl1122 said:
Karen, get a grip. Here’s what you yourself just quoted:



The return to play protocol that you just posted yourself include the words “otherwise unable to train consistently effectively and according to their seasonal plan” as one of the conditions that allows USFSA to activate the return to play protocol.

I’m saying this to you as someone who does not like Jason and roots against him. Your whole rant is based on nothing.
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Fair enough, I did miss that last line.

I'll retract my assertion that someone is lying.
 
I think what USFS should rethink is committing to naming the full team immediate after Nationals, and not allowing one spot to be assigned after choosing another competition as a face-off, especially since 1st Alt needs to be primed to take over at Worlds. If 4C's doesn't work because of timing in any year, there are other international competitions for singles.
 
They were between a rock and a hard place. Camden has underperformed for years and isn't putting full effort into prep due to work. Jason had a crummy fall but has always come through at Worlds. Historically, judges have loved him. If the biggest goal is to get three Olympic spots...I'd probably have chosen Jason.
 
From clips he's posted to social media, it doesn't seem like Brown is training under top sekret lock and key. Unless he really does, or starts to, it would be hard to hide where he is in terms of readiness over the next eight weeks.
 
I am going down memory lane on Andrew Torgashev. Could someone remind me what happened in 2015-6? He didn’t compete all season?
 
I think it was a badly broken ankle. Wikipedia says pins were inserted in June and not removed until the following January. That was the same year he moved up to senior for national competition; I assume he had tested up before the accident.
 
How did he get so injured so young? :(
Then two years off before this Olympic cycle, yikes
 
Belated question: Was Raf at Nationals? I think someone said Brandon Frazier was filling for him in the K&C with Andrew T, but that made me realize I don't remember seeing him at all this year.

Is he retired or semi-retired? Not travelling at the moment?
Does Ilia still work with him sometimes? Who else?
 
hoptoad said:
Belated question: Was Raf at Nationals? I think someone said Brandon Frazier was filling for him in the K&C with Andrew T, but that made me realize I don't remember seeing him at all this year.
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Ashley has said repeatedly that Raf hates to travel. I can't remember the last time we saw him at a competition.
 
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