Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

kwanfan1818 said:
Willin raised having heard that religion was a bond between Neset and Markelov, and you questioned that possibility, because he is presumably Russian Orthodox, and it is unlikely that she was/is.
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Willin didn't cite a source and wasn't even sure that she had one. This is gossip, rumor, and speculation, and it applies to only one of the three couples. Why shouldn't I question it?
 
You didn't question it because there was no source, and therefore gossip, rumor, speculation: you questioned that it wasn't plausible as a reason.
 
Vagabond said:
Willin didn't cite a source and wasn't even sure that she had one. This is gossip, rumor, and speculation, and it applies to only one of the three couples. Why shouldn't I question it?
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And all of the other 'information' being discussed about these six people has a source and is something other than gossip, rumor, and speculation?
 
Honestly, I don't think the religiosity of any of the six is anything more than speculation. None of the skaters in question have shared anything about their personal religiosity on their social media as far as I can tell.

While Leah & Artem did have a church wedding, that could just as easily be chalked up to Leah having a sentimental wish to be married at her family church in North Dakota or because it made the made the most sense logistically and not because she is super-religious herself. Also, you don't have to get married in a church to be super-religious - as far as I'm aware, ministers can marry couples outdoors just as easily as anyone else who is licensed to perform marriages.

On the general subject of religion and the Colorado Springs skating community, I'm amused that some people here are claiming it's not super-conservative. Were these the same posters who used to gripe about Courtney Hicks and other Colorado Springs-based skaters using groups like Hillsong and other contemporary Christian musical artists for all their skating programs 7-10 years ago? Which is it? Maybe a mix, like the rest of the USA where we're split 50-50 politically, and yet, might I remind y'all, we're still a fairly religious nation compared to other western nations, especially western Europe.
 
floridaice said:
And all of the other 'information' being discussed about these six people has a source and is something other than gossip, rumor, and speculation?
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Some of it was posted by a public figure, who's known to have connections and, as much as many of us hate it, has turned out to be right quite often. That person could be sued within an inch of his Patreon coffers if it was libel.
 
Vagabond said:
Willin didn't cite a source and wasn't even sure that she had one. This is gossip, rumor, and speculation, and it applies to only one of the three couples. Why shouldn't I question it?
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Well, she did attend exclusively religious schools (not sure if its the conservative crazy types or the public schools are bad so everyone goes type) and posts Christian stuff like bible verses on her social media - including posts featuring him, so it's not a rumor without any substance.
 
kwanfan1818 said:
Some of it was posted by a public figure, who's known to have connections and, as much as many of us hate it, has turned out to be right quite often. That person could be sued within an inch of his Patreon coffers if it was libel.
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Other than the two marriage licenses issued Colorado Springs, N&M's wedding and the interviews given by Desyatov covering how he left Belarus and got to Colorado Springs, what else are actual facts and not speculation? (outside of Desyatov's suspension)
 
Tangoer said:
Somebody mentioned you cannot rely on memories from 11 years ago. While science does show that memory is faulty over time, SafeSport and OSIC do not suspend people on their word alone, and look at evidence that dates back to the time of the event. So to even insinuate that the accused is innocent because memories are faulty or no more people filed a report that you’re aware of, is really problematic.
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Also, the science doesn't support the idea that someone would remember a sexual assault that didn't happen. It means some of the details -- what shirt the person doing the SA was wearing, every body part touched, how long the whole thing took -- are the sort of details that become fuzzy over time or are remembered incorrectly.
 
Wyliefan said:
Although it seems pretty clear from social media that Neset's family is religious, we don't know much more than that, and I'd caution against trying to construct a narrative around it. Remember when fans built up a whole theory about Kaiya Ruiter being anti-vax and not being able to compete because of it, and then it turned out it was because she was seriously injured instead?
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As the person who brought the topic up in the first place, it really was in relation to rfisher's observation that within certain cultures getting married young isn't remarkable, and added in what I know about some aspect of cultural life in Colorado Springs. I really meant for it to be an observation and not trying to construct an excuse as to why three young female WASA skaters suddenly got married to their foreign partners in apparent rapid succession.

So...meal culpa for the detour.
 
Karen-W said:
Honestly, I don't think the religiosity of any of the six is anything more than speculation. None of the skaters in question have shared anything about their personal religiosity on their social media as far as I can tell.

While Leah & Artem did have a church wedding, that could just as easily be chalked up to Leah having a sentimental wish to be married at her family church in North Dakota or because it made the made the most sense logistically and not because she is super-religious herself. Also, you don't have to get married in a church to be super-religious - as far as I'm aware, ministers can marry couples outdoors just as easily as anyone else who is licensed to perform marriages.

On the general subject of religion and the Colorado Springs skating community, I'm amused that some people here are claiming it's not super-conservative. Were these the same posters who used to gripe about Courtney Hicks and other Colorado Springs-based skaters using groups like Hillsong and other contemporary Christian musical artists for all their skating programs 7-10 years ago? Which is it? Maybe a mix, like the rest of the USA where we're split 50-50 politically, and yet, might I remind y'all, we're still a fairly religious nation compared to other western nations, especially western Europe.
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I'm not condoning any of this, but shy should they share publicly their religion (Something sacred) on social media. They have a first amendment write to share what they share. It's strange how many opinions you have in six young adults to me.
 
jackson said:
I'm not condoning any of this, but shy should they share publicly their religion (Something sacred) on social media. They have a first amendment write to share what they share. It's strange how many opinions you have in six young adults to me.
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The first amendment has nothing to do with people’s opinions. No one is suggesting that the government should come in and stop them from having a religion.
 
jackson said:
I'm not condoning any of this, but shy should they share publicly their religion (Something sacred) on social media. They have a first amendment write to share what they share. It's strange how many opinions you have in six young adults to me.
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This is such a bizarre take on what I said. In no way shape or form do I believe that any of those skaters (or anyone else for that matter) need to share anything more than what they want publicly or privately.

My point was actually that we, as fans, really don't have any insight into their personal beliefs and any discussion about what role their personal faith may have in their life is speculation, especially because none of them have shared anything of that nature publicly.

You continue to try and come at me and twist my words in a variety of threads and it's kind of sad and pathetic how wrong you are pretty much every time you take a swipe at me. Back on ignore you go!
 
Willin said:
I also don't know anyone in this day and age who isn't posting their relationship on social media. The boomers post their anniversaries/grandkid/throwback fluff, the millennials post their family/kid/travel photos, the Gen Z post their young and in love photos. Somehow if this was a marriage in the loving sense I think we'd see more affectionate stuff on social media (and Ivan wouldn't be liking sexy photos of other women).
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Won’t someone think of Gen X?:drama:
 
Former Lurve Goddess said:
Sigh, no one ever does;)
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Gen X is the new Silent Generation. There aren’t enough of them to draw mass marketing attention. And they’re also the last generation that doesn’t have their teen/young adult years documented in perpetuity on the internet. Smart, Gen X, smart.

Now back to the topic at hand. We’ve strayed enough.
 
Trillian said:
When it comes down to it, I would guess a lot of us in this conversation have pretty pragmatic perspectives on both marriage and U.S. immigration law, understanding that marriage is a legal agreement that people can enter into for a lot of reasons, and the U.S. immigration system isn’t such a flawless apparatus that we need to be getting particularly precious about it. I don’t sense a lot of moral judgment along those lines happening here.

But it’s one thing to recognize all of that, and another thing to recognize that a group of young people could all end up in various kinds of trouble that could have a significant impact on their futures because people in positions of power either didn’t provide appropriate guidance or outright coerced them.

This really has nothing to do with how anyone thinks marriage or immigration “should” work, and everything to do with the fact that power dynamics in figure skating are inherently exploitative to the young athletes involved.
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My last post I just reiterated how sad this whole situation was… It was so bothersome that I asked a lawyer friend, who is familiar with immigration law, and he said there are several legal options particularly for athletes to immigrate to the United States. He referred to a P1 Athlete Visa as an example. Now I didn’t get more details to ask how that path would lead to US citizenship…

Instead of being sad, now I just think all these decisions by these WASA young ice dance couples/coaches/parents were dumb. I hope all parties are properly investigated to put an end to all our rumors and speculations, and I’m hopeful that there are other Team USA skating couples doing this correctly (legally).
 
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Former Lurve Goddess said:
To get us back on topic, does anyone think that Skate Canada and USFS will be putting in new policies after these higher profile suspensions?
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Don't bet on it.

I just received the following email from USFS:

SkateSafe® Mandatory Reporting for Adult Participants and New SafeSport™ Ready App!​

As the season progresses, we wanted to remind our adult members of U.S. Figure Skating and/or Learn to Skate USA® of the continuing obligation of mandatory reporting.

  • All Adult Participants (i.e., coaches/instructors, athletes, officials, volunteers, club and program leaders, etc.) are required to report suspected child abuse and/or sexual misconduct to the U.S. Center for SafeSport and local law enforcement. Reports can be made to the Center here or by calling 833-5US-SAFE (587-7233).
  • All other SkateSafe® violations, such as emotional and physical misconduct, bullying, harassment or violations of the U.S. Figure Skating SkateSafe® Handbook, must be made directly to U.S. Figure Skating here.
The U.S. Center for SafeSport has announced the launch of their SafeSport Ready app; an educational tool to help parents, guardians, and other adults within U.S. Figure Skating stay aware and informed about abuse in sport. Users of the SafeSport Ready app will be able to:
  • More easily recognize types of abuse and misconduct and how they may materialize
  • Take interactive quizzes to test their knowledge on topics related to creating safer sport settings
  • Explore articles on how to talk to minor athletes about topics like setting healthy boundaries and being inclusive of all teammates
  • Search the U.S. Center for SafeSport’s Centralized Disciplinary Database to see if any coach’s have been restricted within the Movement
Visti the Apple App Store or Google Play to download SafeSport Ready and click here to learn more about the app and the U.S. Center for SafeSport.

As always, you can reach out to us with questions at [email protected] or call 719-635-5200, option 6.

Sincerely,
U.S. Figure Skating SkateSafe® Team
John, Shelbi, Tim, and Hannah
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Instead of telling people to take interactive quizzes, how about investigating abuse going on down the road from your headquarters?

Interesting that they are telling people to report emotional or physical abuse directly to USFS. I thought those could also be reported to SafeSport, people could choose either one. Maybe SafeSport is asking NGBs to handle those complaints b/c of their backlog? Are other sports requiring the same thing?
 
Debbie S said:
Don't bet on it.

I just received the following email from USFS:


Instead of telling people to take interactive quizzes, how about investigating abuse going on down the road from your headquarters?

Interesting that they are telling people to report emotional or physical abuse directly to USFS. I thought those could also be reported to SafeSport, people could choose either one. Maybe SafeSport is asking NGBs to handle those complaints b/c of their backlog? Are other sports requiring the same thing?
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As an adult skater I also got this e-mail. I didn't put two and two together, but the timing definitely makes sense
 
Former Lurve Goddess said:
To get us back on topic, does anyone think that Skate Canada and USFS will be putting in new policies after these higher profile suspensions?
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They already have extensive policies, and systems of reporting and resolution. The problem is that neither association clearly explains how to use these, they aren't designed to be user-friendly, and even if people did understand how to use them, many are afraid to file complaints.

Both associations need to address the culture that enables abuse and discourages complaints about abuse. And despite lots of nice public statements about not tolerating abuse and being inclusive and respectful, neither is doing anything substantive to change that culture.
 
overedge said:
Both associations need to address the culture that enables abuse and discourages complaints about abuse. And despite lots of nice public statements about not tolerating abuse and being inclusive and respectful, neither is doing anything substantive to change that culture.
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Agree. Drop the passive voice. Be direct and get on with it no matter whose boot is getting scraped.
 
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