2024-25 US Pairs Discussion - Triple-Twisting Through Tornado Alley

[BrightSkates]

Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational NQS entries are up - 3 junior pairs teams!

Mazie McFarland/Samir Andjorin (he's a new name to pairs skating, also from Oklahoma City FSC like Mazie)
Graceann Gottschalk/Sam Herbert (they just passed their jr pairs test)
Elizabeth Hansen/William Church (first competition - they were added to the ISP after summer monitoring & are assigned to JGP Turkey)

Fitzpatrick/Bearinger are the only senior team entered.

Fitzpatrick/Bearinger are not playing around, they have been doing a lot of NQS and just now John Nicks Intl. This team is very motivated to get experience!

 

[Karen-W]

Fitzpatrick/Bearinger are not playing around, they have been doing a lot of NQS and just now John Nicks Intl. This team is very motivated to get experience!

Not really. This is their first NQS. Skate Detroit earlier this summer wasn't an NQS event.

Here are the following teams that have competed in an NQS, John Nicks IPC, or JGP so far:

Senior -
Cooke/Kennedy - Middle Atlantics 116.86
Digerness/Sadusky - Cup of Colorado 166.00; John Nicks IPC 147.72
Efimova/Mitrofanov - John Nicks IPC 188.88; Nebelhorn TBD; Skate America TBD
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger - John Nicks IPC 134.86; Greater Chicagoland TBD
Hanns/Neudecker - Cup of Colorado 135.49; John Nicks IPC 128.78
Kam/O'Shea - John Nicks IPC 191.62; Nebelhorn TBD; Skate America TBD; NHK TBD
Korytek/Chapman - Glacier Falls 149.09
Martins/Bedard - Glacier Falls 141.52
McBeath/Parkman - John Nicks IPC 173.37; (probably Skate America TBD)
Williams/Lewer - Glacier Falls 148.57; John Nicks IPC 145.94; Finlandia TBD

Still to compete -
Chan/Howe - SCI TBD; Finlandia TBD
Fredette/Siianytsia
Mokhova/Mokhov
Plazas/Fernandez - NHK TBD; CoC TBD
Shin/Nagy

Junior -
Carpenter/Maravilla - JGP Czechia 125.83
Flores/Wang - Glacier Falls 165.53; JGP Latvia 139.51; JGP Turkey TBD
Gottschalk/Herbert - Greater Chicagoland TBD
Grohne/Lunt - Cup of Colorado 95.30
Hansen/Church - Greater Chicagoland TBD; JGP Turkey TBD
Jarmoc/Witkowski - Middle Atlantics 116.90
McDanold/Felberbaum - John Nicks IPC 105.19; JGP Turkey TBD
McFarland/Andjorin - Greater Chicagoland TBD
Moss/Galbavy - JGP Latvia 127.16; John Nicks IPC 126.87

Still to compete -
Shapovalova/Griffin (competed the SP at Golden West this past weekend)

Remaining NQS competitions -
Pacific NW Interclub Championships - Snoqualmie WA - Sept 19-22
Boston NQS - Norwood MA - Oct 3-6

Best guess - we see Korytek/Chapman, Martins/Bedard, Shapovalova/Griffin and Grohne/Lunt at Pac NW; and we see Fredette/Siianytsia, Shin/Nagy, the Mokhovs, Cooke/Kennedy, and Jarmoc/Witkowski at Boston NQS.

 

[BrightSkates]

Not really. This is their first NQS. Skate Detroit earlier this summer wasn't an NQS event.

My mistake- not NQS at Skate Detroit but 3rd competition soon this season and I'm sure they plan on more before the finals.

Skate Detroit used to be a big deal and now I remember how much it's digressed.

 

[BrightSkates]

2024 Golden West Championships Sr. Pairs

Ellie Korytek, Timmy Chapman, SC of New York 47.58 SP
90.14 FS
137.72 Total

Why weren't they sent to Nicks instead of Hann/Neu or Fitz/Bear?

 

[Karen-W]

2024 Golden West Championships Sr. Pairs

Ellie Korytek, Timmy Chapman, SC of New York 47.58 SP
90.14 FS
137.72 Total

Why weren't they sent to Nicks instead of Hann/Neu or Fitz/Bear?

Because they are not age-eligible for international competition. She's too young for seniors and he's too old for juniors.

 

[BrightSkates]

Standings so far for NQS via USFSA

Senior
1 Digerness, Nica / Sadusky, Mark
St. Moritz ISC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
166.00

2. Korytek, Ellie / Chapman, Timmy
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
149.09

3. Williams, Naomi / Lewer, Lachlan
The Skating Club of Boston
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
148.57

4. Martins, Isabelle / Bedard, Ryan
Chicago FSC
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
141.52

5. Hanns, Grace / Neudecker, Danny
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
135.49

Junior
1. Moss, Reagan / Galbavy, Jakub
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
145.48

2. McDanold, Addyson / Felberbaum, Aaron
DuPage FSC
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
113.48

3. Grohne, Jolena / Lunt, Reede
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
95.30

 

[Karen-W]

Standings so far for NQS via USFSA

Junior
1. Moss, Reagan / Galbavy, Jakub
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
145.48

2. McDanold, Addyson / Felberbaum, Aaron
DuPage FSC
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
113.48

3. Grohne, Jolena / Lunt, Reede
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
95.30

Strange that the Jr standings don't include Flores/Wang's Glacier Falls NQS score.

 

[Stephanie]

Strange that the Jr standings don't include Flores/Wang's Glacier Falls NQS score.

The only thing I can think of is that, back at the time of junior worlds, F/W said they planned to skate senior domestically for 2024/25, which makes sense since they won juniors. Perhaps they skated junior at NQS to prepare for their JGP and subsequently tested up to senior, which means their junior NQS doesn't count in the standings, especially since with their JGP they have a bye to sectionals.

 

[Karen-W]

The only thing I can think of is that, back at the time of junior worlds, F/W said they planned to skate senior domestically for 2024/25, which makes sense since they won juniors. Perhaps they skated junior at NQS to prepare for their JGP and subsequently tested up to senior, which means their junior NQS doesn't count in the standings, especially since with their JGP they have a bye to sectionals.

Could be! I think they'd be foolish to plan on competing seniors domestically this year - at least, based on what they delivered last week in Riga, they should stay focused on juniors this entire season and not worry about seniors until they're age-eligible internationally.

 

[haribobo]

Could be! I think they'd be foolish to plan on competing seniors domestically this year - at least, based on what they delivered last week in Riga, they should stay focused on juniors this entire season and not worry about seniors until they're age-eligible internationally.

Foolish? Good lord. Besides K/O, E/M, and M/P, nobody is doing much so far. Shin/Nagy, Fredette/Siianytsia could do something but haven't show up so far. Plazas/Fernandez and Chan/Howe both appear to be injured. Flores/Wang could finish as high as 4th at Nationals, I think. No reason to hold themselves down to junior. Who are they supposed to be afraid of?

 

[Karen-W]

Foolish? Good lord. Besides K/O, E/M, and M/P, nobody is doing much so far. Shin/Nagy, Fredette/Siianytsia could do something but haven't show up so far. Plazas/Fernandez and Chan/Howe both appear to be injured. Flores/Wang could finish as high as 4th at Nationals, I think. No reason to hold themselves down to junior. Who are they supposed to be afraid of?

Oh, you're cute. They may finish 5th at Nats - but that is only if PlaFern don't get their act together - and even that is questionable. The only way they finish as high as 4th is if, like last year, ChanHowe WD and PlaFern join them on the WD list. The reported injuries are concussions - something that both teams should be back at full strength by in another 4.5 months.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions that they'd skate up to the level we know they're capable of but first time competing seniors at Nats. Last year, LiuNagy scored 178+ and finished 4th, McBPark finished 5th with 172+. Unless BOTH PlaFern and ChanHowe are out of Nats, there is no way that FlorWang finish 4th unless they really step it up a LOT from where they're at.

My issue with any junior pairs team trying to compete junior internationally and senior domestically is that they are at a technical disadvantage coming in. The junior SP requires either a Flip or Axel jump for the SBS - so, they either land a 3f or a 2a - they don't have a 3f or they'd be attempting it. Sure, they can switch the jump out for a 3s in seniors but that if it isn't something they've been training consistently in the SP then how reliable is it going to be when they need it? Furthermore, the senior FS requires 3 lifts and a step sequence that you don't perform in juniors. Presuming they qualify for the JGPF, they then get a Bye to Nats through Sectionals and they'll be skating their senior programs for the first time there. I'd hope they go to Sectionals and compete even with the Bye, just to get one senior competition under their belts but there's no requirement they do so per the Nats Bye criteria.

It's not a matter of being afraid of anyone, it's a matter of being realistic about the differences in technical requirements between junior and senior pairs and not being at all convinced, especially with the material they have this season, that FlorWang are capable of finishing higher than 6th at Nats - and that's presuming that some other fully senior teams don't make some progress in the coming months.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

nobody is doing much so far

Just wait for the multitalented and multi complex MarBed

 

[haribobo]

I fail to see the tragedy of them finishing in the 6-8 range if that were to happen. If they want to challenge themselves, good for them. I'm sure Naomi Nari Nam didn't expect to finish 2nd in 1999. But sometimes it pays to put yourself in the game earlier rather than later.

 

[BrightSkates]

Also as much as an additional step sequence + lift + harder(?) jumping pass can be difficult to execute.

The plus is that it means more in points on the table. Could be a big boost in their score.

 

[Karen-W]

Also as much as an additional step sequence + lift + harder(?) jumping pass can be difficult to execute.

The plus is that it means more in points on the table. Could be a big boost in their score.

If they could manage to finish 6th at Nats then it would be a slight increase in funding vs staying at the Jr level and winning again. Per the USFS Team Envelope Criteria -

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2024-2025%20Athlete%20Support%20Funding%20Criteria.pdf

5th-6th at US Championships or WJC Champion is the same funding level - Team B-Tier 2

7th-8th at US Championships, US Jr Champion, JGPF qualifier or WJC 2nd-3rd is the same funding level - Team C-Tier 1 (their funding level this season)

They've already guaranteed themselves Team C-Tier 2 funding with their bronze in Latvia last week.

The gamble may pay off if they can bump themselves up to Team A or Team B funding, I'm just not in agreement that it's very likely. 6th at Nats is probably the best they can achieve, and that's presuming none of the other teams with potential to bump them down (Fredette/Siianytsia, Shin/Nagy) wind up competing at Nats.

 

[otisgear]

Chan/Howe will be attending Shanghai Trophy as announced by the organisers ^^

 

[Karen-W]

Chan/Howe will be attending Shanghai Trophy as announced by the organisers ^^

Link?

 

[otisgear]

Link?

Here (hope it works, weibo links are a little wonky sometimes)

 

[Karen-W]

FitzBear WD from the Greater Chicagoland NQS. Makes sense. I'm guessing the USFS will automatically give a Sectionals Bye to all the senior teams who competed at John Nicks IPC.

 

[ice coverage]

Because Nicks is a Challenger this season, all Nicks senior pairs get a bye to this season's U.S. Pairs Final.

But even if Nicks lacked Challenger status (as it did in previous seasons) ... Nicks international scores count for NQS standings again this season, per USFS handbook for 2024-25 NQS.
(Same for Lake Placid international scores and NQS dance standings. A thing only for pairs and dance, so Cranberry internatonal scores do not count for NQS singles.
I don't know why Nicks and Lake Placid International scores are not showing up in 2024-25 NQS standings in EMS as of now. )

Because NQS pairs are so few, everyone in the NQS standings will have no trouble advancing to U.S. Pairs Final.
Senior and junior levels have 18 slots at U.S. Pairs final. Novice, intermediate, juvenile pairs have 24 slots.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2025%20Qualifying%20Bye%20Advancement%20Criteria%20FINAL.pdf

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/NQS_announcement%202024-25.pdf

 

[BrightSkates]

Because Nicks is a Challenger this season, all Nicks senior pairs get a bye to this season's U.S. Pairs Final.

But even if Nicks lacked Challenger status (as it did in previous seasons) ... Nicks international scores count for NQS standings again this season, per USFS handbook for 2024-25 NQS.
(Same for Lake Placid international scores and NQS dance standings. A thing only for pairs and dance, so Cranberry internatonal scores do not count for NQS singles.
I don't know why Nicks and Lake Placid International scores are not showing up in 2024-25 NQS standings in EMS as of now. )

Because NQS pairs are so few, everyone in the NQS standings will have no trouble advancing to U.S. Pairs Final.
Senior and junior levels have 18 slots at U.S. Pairs final. Novice, intermediate, juvenile pairs have 24 slots.

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/2025%20Qualifying%20Bye%20Advancement%20Criteria%20FINAL.pdf

​

https://www.usfigureskating.org/sites/default/files/media-files/NQS_announcement%202024-25.pdf

Was just thinking that. Technically everyone qualifies to the pairs final but some won't quality to Nationals. Nationals is 12 spots strict- and I believe there are more than 12 teams that we know of (maybe not competed yet) this season.

 

[BrightSkates]

Standings so far for NQS via USFSA

Senior
1 Digerness, Nica / Sadusky, Mark
St. Moritz ISC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
166.00

2. Korytek, Ellie / Chapman, Timmy
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
149.09

3. Williams, Naomi / Lewer, Lachlan
The Skating Club of Boston
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
148.57

4. Martins, Isabelle / Bedard, Ryan
Chicago FSC
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
141.52

5. Hanns, Grace / Neudecker, Danny
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
135.49

Junior
1. Moss, Reagan / Galbavy, Jakub
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
145.48

2. McDanold, Addyson / Felberbaum, Aaron
DuPage FSC
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
113.48

3. Grohne, Jolena / Lunt, Reede
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
95.30

Added in Seniors NQS Standings

6. Cooke, Sydney / Kennedy, Matthew Elite Edge SC
NQS - 98th Annual Middle Atlantic FS Champs
116.86

Juniors NQS Updated List

1. Moss, Reagan / Galbavy, Jakub
The SC of New York, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Glacier Falls Summer Classic
145.48

2. Hansen, Elizabeth / Church, William
Heart Of Illinois SC
NQS - 2024 Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational
129.22

3. Jarmoc, Sofia / Witkowski, Luke
The Skating Club of Boston
NQS - 98th Annual Middle Atlantic FS Champs
116.90

4. McDanold, Addyson / Felberbaum, Aaron
DuPage FSC
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
113.48

5. McFarland, Mazie / Andjorin, Samir
Oklahoma City FSC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational
108.51

6. Gottschalk, Graceann / Herbert, Sam
FSC of Charleston
NQS - 2024 Greater Chicagoland Fall Invitational
102.20

7. Grohne, Jolena / Lunt, Reede
Broadmoor SC, Inc.
NQS - 2024 Cup of Colorado
95.30

 

[BrightSkates]

Mcbeath and Parkman for SkAm

 

[BrightSkates]

Megan Wessenberg/Edo Caputo posted on their instagram story a beautiful throw triple salchow with the caption "It's been a minute!!!". Looks like they are back and still in the game for NQS

 

[Karen-W]

Megan Wessenberg/Edo Caputo posted on their instagram story a beautiful throw triple salchow with the caption "It's been a minute!!!". Looks like they are back and still in the game for NQS

There are still two NQS events for Pairs, so hopefully we'll see them at one of those.

Shin/Nagy have been in Colorado training this week - I'm wondering if they'll show up at the next Pairs NQS next weekend in Washington State.

 

[Karen-W]

Nina Ouellette is listed on IPS as of 9/2, which would confirm she and Rique Newby-Estrella are no longer skating together.

 

[Rukia]

Nina Ouellette is listed on IPS as of 9/2, which would confirm she and Rique Newby-Estrella are no longer skating together.

lol i literally thought they had broken up ages ago

 

[Karen-W]

lol i literally thought they had broken up ages ago

That was my presumption as well based on her IG posts not showing any pairs training at all for awhile now, but it's nice to have official confirmation, I guess, lol.

 

[A.H.Black]

I'm surprised there are no posts about Ellie Kam landing her throw loop in the Nebelhorn short program. According to Jackie it was the best he had seen her do. In 2nd and ahead of the world champions - for now. So happy for her.

 

[orbitz]

She landed the throw 3l in the LP too, but the entire performance was bad. Danny looked so shaky in all of their lifts.