The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023

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Bigbird

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As pretty much everyone including big B/B fans like me pointed out, they did not skate their best this week. Performance matters. They’re lucky (by an extended lift for the Brits, who were sublime) not to have finished off the podium entirely.
They were not in good form and the performance was meh. They should be lucky they have bronze.

And I lurved their programmes. They fizzled out at the end of the season. Not sure if it was the pressure, self doubt or injuries.
 

BlueRidge

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Mrazeks blew everyone away but I think that the idea that B&B were significantly off is groupthink that has set in. They lost because they didn't get their levels on the patterns in the RD but its very hard to see how they scored lower than Lim & Quan in the FD. L&Q camouflaged a couple of mistakes with theatrical presentation but I certainly question their getting silver over B&B.

In any case, the highlights for me were Mrazeks and Neset & Markelov. I'm quite thrilled with N&M's performances here, granted we'll sadly never know if they would have been top 5 had the Germans skated, but they are top 5 so that was exciting.
 

BlueRidge

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I made the observation during the RD that B&B were surprisingly sloppy. I don’t think it had anything to do with group think. Their sloppiness lead to lower levels, GOE, and PCS. Nothing about how they were scored stands out to me.
What about their FD though? Was it equally sloppy in your eyes? I didn't see that.
 

lauravvv

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No, I'm behind & having to watch everything late because I was working last week. If I could have watched the event live, I'd have put the comment in the play-by-play thread, but the conversation in those usually dies once the event is over.

It would be fair to say that Tkachenko & Kiliakov are favorites of mine. I have liked them since I first saw them in novices at the 2017 Kansas City Nationals. (Hence, I can appreciate that he's grown because there were times when I had doubts!)
Okay, understood. And you are right about the play-by-play thread.

Even though Tkachenko/Kiliakov are not among my top favorites (to be honest, I like many junior teams, but have no heavy favorites), I have always liked them and have been wondering for some time when would they start fulfilling their potential and getting higher scores. This seemed more like it, although they placed just two places higher than at the previous Worlds. But at the moment there are so many really good teams in juniors, that they couldn't have asked for much more, except, perhaps, getting into that top 10.
 

Wyliefan

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Mrazeks blew everyone away but I think that the idea that B&B were significantly off is groupthink that has set in. They lost because they didn't get their levels on the patterns in the RD but its very hard to see how they scored lower than Lim & Quan in the FD. L&Q camouflaged a couple of mistakes with theatrical presentation but I certainly question their getting silver over B&B.
Thank you. I was beginning to think I was losing my eyesight or something. :lol:
 

Karen-W

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Honestly, the top five were so good in different ways that I’m now more eager for the top three Senior teams to retire. So much talent coming up…
Make that top 4. I'd be happy to see the Canadanes take their bows too, though I expect they'll stick around for Montreal Worlds.
Can you at least wait until Worlds is over? ;)
LOL, yeah, I'm with you. They've got about 5 weeks (because you know they'll show up at WTT too) and then they need to start "stepping lightly" please and retire.
 

Wyliefan

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That reminds me, I had an idea for the next Dance Hall thread title: Movin' On Up, in honor of all the talented young teams hitting seniors next season. We should probably keep this thread open until after Worlds, but I'll save it till then, unless anyone else has other title ideas to put forward!
 

litenkyckling

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They were not in good form and the performance was meh. They should be lucky they have bronze.

And I lurved their programmes. They fizzled out at the end of the season. Not sure if it was the pressure, self doubt or injuries.
Probably all of the reasons you listed but in her YouTube vlogs recently Nadiia mentioned an injury before nationals and it still not fully healed when they did the worlds camp in Calgary
 

thvu

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What about their FD though? Was it equally sloppy in your eyes? I didn't see that.
It wasn't. Much better than the RD, but I've never been that enamored by B&B's Free Dance. I think they struggle to find an interpretation that fits both them and the music. I also don't think that, as a team, that they have level of precision of the rest of the podium (or the Baby Brits). When I compare their level at the JGPF to everything else, to me, they over-performed at the JGPF. Their JWorlds FD was more in line with their normal baseline of performance.

If I think back to their JWorlds FD, they had some visible struggles on the steps and twizzles. Unlike with L&M, B&B didn't disguise theirs with interpretation and style. The music more or less existed over their mistakes, music they aren't really interpreting during their steps and twizzles. The performance level and commitment compared to the top two just wasn't there. To me, that completely justified the lower GOE and PCS.

Also, Lim & Quan were undermarked during the JGP season IMO. Small ice dance fed blues. They were the only team that had senior-worthy programs across the board, programs that were difficult to perform with that level of interpretation and precision, and it took the judges the whole season to truly award them for it.
 

morqet

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What about their FD though? Was it equally sloppy in your eyes? I didn't see that.
I thought the start of their FD was great, I love his posture and the way he uses his arms, but as they got to the end of the one foot sequence the edges were getting weaker, and then there was a visible mistake from him on the 2nd twizzle and clunky entries/exits from elements. They just didn't look as sharp as they have previously.
 

yurokis40

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the czech team is not ready at all for seniors they lack control and experience a big mistake to move up, the best example is LALA who struggled in their first senior season and they had more experience than the mrazeks, B&B look the most senior ready I think they will end up in montreal soon especially after alot of the veteran teams there retire they will be space fo them.
 

Karen-W

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the czech team is not ready at all for seniors they lack control and experience a big mistake to move up, the best example is LALA who struggled in their first senior season and they had more experience than the mrazeks, B&B look the most senior ready I think they will end up in montreal soon especially after alot of the veteran teams there retire they will be space fo them.
I laugh at this comment, because you're clearly biased and we all know this. I don't agree that the Mrazeks aren't ready for seniors - they certainly have the power and speed to be competitive with a lot of teams. However, I wouldn't go so far as some in both the Jr Worlds FD pbp thread or here who think that they're going to be competitive for Worlds Top 10 in their first season unless there are some retirements that help clear the deck, so to speak. Even then...

There's still a lot of teams ahead of them - Canadanes, LajLag, LesGacs, FearGib, HawBak, GreenP, CarPon, LopBri, DemLeM, TurkVer, ReedAmbru, the Taschlers, KazRev - that's 13 teams right there, plus the other Jr teams who are moving up - LimQuan, BekHern, BashBeau (well, BashBeau won't be at Worlds if they don't move ahead of LesGacs immediately). Is top 15 at Worlds doable - oh, yes, presuming the Taschlers can earn 2 spots for Czechia next season. And, if Czechia only has 1 spot next season, I think it will go to the Taschlers, who would certainly earn 2 in 2024 if those retirements happen.
 

Wyliefan

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@thvu and @morqet thanks for your thoughts on this, helps me to understand what happened.
I appreciate it too -- it helps, plus it's a lot more nuanced and fair than what we've been getting here and what we got in the PBP thread. I realize there's not much time for nuance during PBPs, everything moves so fast. What bugs me is the selectiveness. Even Ted called out Ye Quan's very visible twizzle trouble, but to read here, you'd never know Lim/Quan had any trouble at all. I know everyone loves L/Q -- I love them too -- but let's not make it sound like one team scraped the bottom of the barrel and the other was sheer perfection. Both had issues.
 
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Sylvia

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Natálie Taschlerová posted this reel video on Feb. 19 (left knee injury caused by their sliding move): https://www.instagram.com/p/Co28aZ4oy6z/
Pain will make you grow in to the person you wanna be in future! Never give up! Keep going!
P.S - I’m doing great.💛I’m back sooner than you think. It’s nothing crazy serious. Just wanted to share the different parts of figure skating that we’re usually not sharing.
Love your body for everything!💛
 

Marta24

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I laugh at this comment, because you're clearly biased and we all know this. I don't agree that the Mrazeks aren't ready for seniors - they certainly have the power and speed to be competitive with a lot of teams. However, I wouldn't go so far as some in both the Jr Worlds FD pbp thread or here who think that they're going to be competitive for Worlds Top 10 in their first season unless there are some retirements that help clear the deck, so to speak. Even then...

There's still a lot of teams ahead of them - Canadanes, LajLag, LesGacs, FearGib, HawBak, GreenP, CarPon, LopBri, DemLeM, TurkVer, ReedAmbru, the Taschlers, KazRev - that's 13 teams right there, plus the other Jr teams who are moving up - LimQuan, BekHern, BashBeau (well, BashBeau won't be at Worlds if they don't move ahead of LesGacs immediately). Is top 15 at Worlds doable - oh, yes, presuming the Taschlers can earn 2 spots for Czechia next season. And, if Czechia only has 1 spot next season, I think it will go to the Taschlers, who would certainly earn 2 in 2024 if those retirements happen.
I would be totally happy with Top 15 at World. I think top 10 at Euros + Top 15 at Worlds are realistic and would be great results for them. The transition to Seniors is always tough for ice dancers. All these amazing GOE and PCS they are receiving now, will be recalibrated once they move up and compete against the teams you have listed. Elements that look incredible in the Junior ranks, don't look that amazing anymore when you are competing against 10 other Senior teams that can do these same elements much better than you.
But seeing how much Zanni has improved Taschler's skating and standing with the judges, makes me hopeful that Mrazeks move to Seniors isn't going to be too painful in terms of scoring and placements.
 

PRlady

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B/B have a traffic jam ahead of them. :(

Mrazeks have a Worlds spot waiting for them if Tachlers do well and Bekker/Hernandez certainly do. I assume Lim/Quan will go wherever they can with Fed backing including Worlds next year. N/M are staying Junior I assume? They really do have a traffic jam as well. So do the French.

I don’t expect any of these teams to leapfrog the good Seniors ahead of them but they can get a toehold on the lower ranks with some top Senior retirements.
 

BlueRidge

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Just out of curiosity I looked up the past 5 years of junior worlds to see how the teams who medaled have fared since. I'll probably get details wrong so correct me, please.
Leaving out Russian teams:
2018: CarPon, still working their way up
2019: Lajoie & Lagha, still working their way up
2020: Nguyen & Kolesnik: split, he repartnered and is working his way up; Kazakova & Reviya, still working their way up
2021: Cancelled
2022: Browns, still working their way up; D'Alessandro & Waddell split.

This probably tells us where the current teams who are moving up after this years junior worlds are going anytime soon.
 

skatingguy

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B/B have a traffic jam ahead of them. :(

Mrazeks have a Worlds spot waiting for them if Tachlers do well and Bekker/Hernandez certainly do. I assume Lim/Quan will go wherever they can with Fed backing including Worlds next year. N/M are staying Junior I assume? They really do have a traffic jam as well. So do the French.

I don’t expect any of these teams to leapfrog the good Seniors ahead of them but they can get a toehold on the lower ranks with some top Senior retirements.
I think it will depend on the programs that the Mrzaeks have next season - they have the balanced skating skills, speed, and extension to upstage the top teams if they have the programs. They are the team to watch in next few seasons.
 

litenkyckling

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I think its also important to remember that fast juniors will always do well in juniors, but in seniors I think the judges are looking for that little bit more in style, expression, interpretation. So while speed is certainly an advantage, it's more of an advantage at the junior level (for now at least).
 
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