The Heir, The Spare and the “Baby Brain” -The Prince Harry and Meghan show rumbles on…

[kwanfan1818]

Has it not been established that Prince Phillip LOVED his time at that school and insisted Charles go there.
And that Charles HATED his time there.
I thought the talk for decades was that Charles was a more sensitive child who was more into art and gardening and the climate.
I can't imagine him putting up any fights if/when Diana was the one who suggested Eton.

That reminds me of a friend who was a math prodigy from Long Island and who was accepted to Columbia and Princeton when he was 15. His mother insisted that he go to Princeton, where he was miserable; had he gone to Columbia, he would have happily lived at home and commuted. He suffered from depression for quite a while, because of feeling like a social misfit and too young to be accepted, all the while knowing that it is more common for other bright students to catch up to math prodigies than that they win Nobel prizes. Although she saw how much the experience scarred him, when we were discussing his experience, all she could talk about was how much she loved Princeton and how wonderful it was. (And, no, she didn't go there herself: it was still an all-Men's university when she went to college.)

I have no skin in the game as to how much King Charles was a hands on father or that he did or didn't agreed to Eton, where her father and brother had gone to school. She was the driver, and for someone to try to create something for her children so that they weren't forced to suffer just because she and her husband had was admirable to me. It obviously didn't go as planned in the long run, especially as you pointed out that Prince William had to deal with his parents' interviews when he was 12-13 (not that there is a great time).

Most people do not have the means to change their their lives without getting the education or training it would require to support that change, nor do they have plenty of leisure time to think about what they would rather be doing with their lives long before, say, a divorce finally frees them to do it.

But there are plenty of wealthy and upper-middle class people who do have the means to change their lives, and they don't: they stay at the same law firm, they remain at the head of the same company, they stay in the same medical practice, even if they have enough money to go back to school to study art history or never work again or join the Peace Corps, they stay in tech even though they have million in stock options, etc.

 

[marbri]

Some of the excerpts seem surreal. Like this one described in the Daily Mail:



I get that kids do awful things and learn better as they get older, but what a bizarre thing to recount in your own biography at almost 40.

Also a bit humiliating for that poor teacher if she is still alive. Particularly as it was likely she was forced to work through disability and pain in order to put a roof over her head. (Just so a prince with his life laid out on a silver platter can judge her by her appearance).

No wonder Harry clashed with his communications team and aides if this is what he wanted to do with his platform.

I am seeing so many things online I can't tell the difference anymore between what is actually in the book and what parody accounts are posting.

So far it's all seeming a bit "kiss and tell" which is a bit ironic when you think about it all.

 

[Prancer]

But there are plenty of wealthy and upper-middle class people who do have the means to change their lives, and they don't

. Yes? Are they unhappy and dissatisfied with their work? That is the assertion about Diana, is it not, that she was unhappy and dissatisfied just being rich and showing up at events?

There are also wealthy and upper middle class people who do change their lives and do completely different things.

I am not sure what other people have to do with her choices in life either way .

 

[starrynight]

I am seeing so many things online I can't tell the difference anymore between what is actually in the book and what parody accounts are posting.

So far it's all seeming a bit "kiss and tell" which is a bit ironic when you think about it all.

I know. I first saw the extract of Harry making fun of the disabled teacher who didn’t ‘make him horny’ on social networks and then had to try to see if a news site was publishing it (which it has) to confirm that it’s an actual excerpt. Same with the nitrous oxide bit.

The biggest problem the royal family is going to face is that someone so entitled and mean was raised by them and then protected with a fake public persona, while they hushed up all his bad behaviour.

Which is ironic because no doubt Harry will complain in his forthcoming interviews that the palace ‘didn’t protect him’. Whereas it seems they protected him to the point of it being a disgrace.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I’ve read all the excerpts that have been released so far.

Probably the one that attracts my attention most is Harry’s behaviour when Meghan was delivering Archie.

So she goes into the hospital to be induced. Harry needs to calm himself down, so he gets his bodyguard to bring him takeaway Nandos chicken to the hospital room. He then sees a canister of nitrous oxide and starts huffing it while Meghan is sitting on an exercise ball trying to move the baby along. Later when Meghan needs pain relief, the nurses realise Harry has emptied the whole canister. A new one has to be fetched for her. Because he’s a prince he just seems to get away with this.

I am seeing so many things online I can't tell the difference anymore between what is actually in the book and what parody accounts are posting.

Yes, as a doctor as well as a woman who has given birth, I call BS on the vignette in the first quote. 1) I have never seen nitrous used in L&D; most women have an epidural or decline pain relief in order to be alert to greet their newborn. 2) A canister of nitrous is not just going to be lying around for a random visitor to take a hit. It is a general anesthetic agent requiring administration by a trained professional, and the hospital would be in major violation if they didn't control access.

I am more on the side of Harry/Meghan but am sure both of them have made mistakes and done things that they regret as have we all. There will probably be some unfortunate revelations in this book, but some of these "excerpts" strain credulity.

 

[starrynight]

All of the news outlets have translated copies of Spare. Not sure whether they would need to make up the excerpts.

Prince Harry was high on laughing gas and ate Nando's at son's birth

Harry described the extraordinary scene at London's Portland Hospital in May 2019 as he admitted 'enhancing' his mood with nitrous oxide, or laughing gas, a common pain reliever.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Harry says that he didn’t have any laughing gas when Lilibet was born because none was available in the US delivery room like it was in the UK.

Based on what I’ve read online, use of nitrous oxide gas during labour varies significantly from country to country. A lot of US people say that it’s not used in the US at all - but common in the UK.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Some of the excerpts seem surreal. Like this one described in the Daily Mail:

Good lord. What a nasty little shit. How in the world did Harry or anyone around him think publishing these stories was a good idea? I've rarely seen anyone shoot himself in the foot so thoroughly and publicly.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Are they unhappy and dissatisfied with their work?

Um, hell yeah. Especially people who work for big, prestigious law, consulting, and accounting firms. I just listen and nod, and now that we're all close to retirement age, I wait for them to retire.

What this has to do with Princess Diana is that she might have being happy being rich and going to events, or she might have been miserable being rich and going to events, or she might have been unhappy/bored/meh, but nothing else looked better, but that she kept doing it only shows that she kept doing it.

 

[starrynight]

Good lord. What a nasty little shit. How in the world did Harry or anyone around him think publishing these stories was a good idea? I've rarely seen anyone shoot himself in the foot so thoroughly and publicly.

Well I’m sure the publisher has delighted in all the revelations. So they aren’t going to stop him.

And I’m not sure Harry has anyone around him to say ‘no’ anymore.

 

[millyskate]

Yes, as a doctor as well as a woman who has given birth, I call BS on the vignette in the first quote. 1) I have never seen nitrous used in L&D; most women have an epidural or decline pain relief in order to be alert to greet their newborn. 2) A canister of nitrous is not just going to be lying around for a random visitor to take a hit. It is a general anesthetic agent requiring administration by a trained professional, and the hospital would be in major violation if they didn't control access.

I am more on the side of Harry/Meghan but am sure both of them have made mistakes and done things that they regret as have we all. There will probably be some unfortunate revelations in this book, but some of these "excerpts" strain credulity.

Actually “gas and air “ is standard in the UK for women giving birth (epidurals are discouraged) and yes the canisters are available in the rooms. On the show “one born every minute” dads trying to sneakily use the gas and air as soon as the midwives leave the room is a classic.

 

[puglover]

I don't know about "events" but Diana clearly cared deeply for the humanitarian causes she chose to be involved with. I recall being somewhat shocked seeing her wear protective gear recounting the horrific reality of landmines and their dreadful consequences. She loved children and had a way with them. There was such a lack of understanding around AIDs at the time and Diana, ungloved, was photographed holding a sufferers hand. That meant so much to our family as my husband's brother was diagnosed with it in 1987.

Charles gave his first talk on the environment in 1968, 7 years before they even coined the phrase "global warming" and decades before the "How Dare You" thinking of today. He was labelled a radical - a lost voice calling for a balanced approach to living so he began with his own farms setting an example of conservation.

William and Kate have been very busy through Covid calling frontline workers, emphasizing mental health, and Kate has taken special interest in mothers of young babies.

I thought Harry's Invictus Games was a huge success - not sure why he said what he did about his own service.

 

[Sylvia]

For those interested in watching Anderson Cooper's interview with Prince Harry for 60 Minutes that's scheduled to air on CBS tomorrow evening in the U.S.:

How to watch Prince Harry's "60 Minutes" interview with Anderson Cooper on Sunday

Prince Harry speaks with Anderson Cooper on Sunday night following NFL coverage on CBS.

www.cbsnews.com

Preview clips are available: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/prince-harry-meghan-markle-british-press-bigotry-60-minutes-2022-01-05/

 

[4rkidz]

A family friend got to know Meg when she lived in Toronto. He was impressed with her authenticity and independence. I trust his judgement, so can totally see how she would revolt against the enmeshed unhealthy seemingly racist royal systems. Mental health has had no recognition within the royals, I am glad Harry escaped. I hope he finds peace from his inner turmoil.

 

[marbri]

All of the news outlets have translated copies of Spare. Not sure whether they would need to make up the excerpts.

Prince Harry was high on laughing gas and ate Nando's at son's birth

Harry described the extraordinary scene at London's Portland Hospital in May 2019 as he admitted 'enhancing' his mood with nitrous oxide, or laughing gas, a common pain reliever.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Harry says that he didn’t have any laughing gas when Lilibet was born because none was available in the US delivery room like it was in the UK.

Based on what I’ve read online, use of nitrous oxide gas during labour varies significantly from country to country. A lot of US people say that it’s not used in the US at all - but common in the UK.

I was offered nitrous oxide gas during my first labour and a sterile water injection. I think that is more common in Nordic countries as well.

 

[4rkidz]

I was offered nitrous oxide gas during my first labour and a sterile water injection. I think that is more common in Nordic countries as well.

My BIL sent us a video of him taking the gas during his sons birth as the labour was so long. I wanted it here in Canada but got an epidural instead.

 

[MsZem]

Mental health has had no recognition within the royals, I am glad Harry escaped. I hope he finds peace from his inner turmoil.

Harry, together with William and Kate, launched Heads Together back in 2016.

Now, maybe it wasn't the right fit for him, and it doesn't mean there's enough recognition of the importance of mental health among older members of the BRF. But it does indicate some pretty high-level involvement with this issue.

 

[Husky]

... what a bizarre thing to recount in your own biography at almost 40 ...
Also a bit humiliating for that poor teacher if she is still alive. Particularly as it was likely she was forced to work through disability and pain in order to put a roof over her head. ...

No wonder Harry clashed with his communications team and aides if this is what he wanted to do with his platform.

Sounds brutally honest to me! I doubt that he didn't know how people will receive this episode. I guess he wrote it because he understands that he had no right to mock her for the same reasons that you name. Of course, this is just my guess as I haven't read the book. But it really looks as if he is so fed up with the Royal theatre that he just wants to be honest, even at the cost to lose the rest of his reputation. You don't get this type of autobiography very often. I still wonder why he couldn't buy furniture with his own money. Is it possible that he had no credit card? That everything was arranged for him and he never had to pay for anything except maybe a Coke?

 

[Husky]

BTW I'm off now to search for a copy of the book in the darknet.

 

[airgelaal]

Sounds brutally honest to me! I doubt that he didn't know how people will receive this episode. I guess he wrote it because he understands that he had no right to mock her for the same reasons that you name. Of course, this is just my guess as I haven't read the book. But it really looks as if he is so fed up with the Royal theatre that he just wants to be honest, even at the cost to lose the rest of his reputation. You don't get this type of autobiography very often. I still wonder why he couldn't buy furniture with his own money. Is it possible that he had no credit card? That everything was arranged for him and he never had to pay for anything except maybe a Coke?

I don't really understand, but what's the difference with an ordinary family?
I haven't read anything that doesn't happen in ordinary families. As if ordinary families hang their dirty laundry every weekend. Is the royal family hiding something? Ordinary parents also do not shout at every corner about all the misdeeds of their children. It’s just that the whole world doesn’t follow ordinary families.

 

[morqet]

But you said, and I'll quote you again...

I'm challenging you on the assertion that Harry has had "years of hurt" without acknowledgment by anyone. That is, factually, untrue. Harry has been quite open about WILLIAM, his own brother, recognizing the hurt and pain Harry was suffering, and helping him get into therapy. So, while whatever therapy he had "didn't take", it is simply untrue to state that it has never been acknowledged or addressed by anyone, and specifically William, someone he was, inarguably, once extremely close to.

I think that therapy was more focused on the issues arising from Diana's death. But there's something else which it seems that Harry has only started to grapple with since he met Meghan and I doubt there has been any real help or acknowledgement from his family to address it; the problem is that he is part of a family whose status relies on setting one sibling above another.

Even if they had perfect parents in a stable marriage and hadn't lost their mother at a young age, William and Harry would have been forced into the golden child and scapegoat model someone else mentioned earlier because William is perceived as more important by virtue of being older. William will be more protected and his misdemeanours will be hushed up because he is expected to be king. William has a defined role and path, and if Harry did have one before they left, it would be in service of his brother. It's a pattern that you see in at least the last three generations of the BRF, and I really doubt that anyone beyond the most selfless individual could go through that as a child and young adult and not be disturbed by it.

If as a family the royals ever did face up to this and address it, they'd have to ask questions that undermine their entire position. It feels to me that Harry is starting to work this out, but hasn't fully followed the logic all the way to the end. He wants a caring family, but a caring family wouldn't buy in to an institution that does this to people.

 

[airgelaal]

The Queen had 4 children and 8 grandchildren. And they all have such different family histories that I don't really understand what pattern we are talking about. And this is only the closest circle.
I understand that the main focus of public attention has always been aimed at the direct heirs, but this does not mean that everyone else lives the same way.

 

[4rkidz]

Harry, together with William and Kate, launched Heads Together back in 2016.

Now, maybe it wasn't the right fit for him, and it doesn't mean there's enough recognition of the importance of mental health among older members of the BRF. But it does indicate some pretty high-level involvement with this issue.

According to that article they didnt launch it for themselves But others? Its another campaign they have put their support to help others. My organization offers all sorts of programs for the community, but its not for the ‘staff‘. Do they have a employee benefit package (royals) that includes psychotherapists and social workers that is external to their royal system? Like our regular associations do? I am not talking about the therapist they hired internally to help them as children after their mothers death. But an employee benefit package that is independent?

 

[MsZem]

Even if they had perfect parents in a stable marriage and hadn't lost their mother at a young age, William and Harry would have been forced into the golden child and scapegoat model someone else mentioned earlier because William is perceived as more important by virtue of being older. William will be more protected and his misdemeanours will be hushed up because he is expected to be king. William has a defined role and path, and if Harry did have one before they left, it would be in service of his brother. It's a pattern that you see in at least the last three generations of the BRF, and I really doubt that anyone beyond the most selfless individual could go through that as a child and young adult and not be disturbed by it.

I'd say that arguably the reverse is true if you look at Charles vs. Andrew. The expectations and responsibilities are greater if you are the heir.

The best model for so-called spares, as others have noted, is not found in the BRF; it's Princess Madeleine of Sweden, who's built a good life for herself and her family.

According to that article they didnt launch it for themselves But others? Its another campaign they have put their support to help others. My organization offers all sorts of programs for the community, but its not for the ‘staff‘. Do they have a employee benefit package (royals) that includes psychotherapists and social workers that is external to their royal system? Like our regular associations do? I am not talking about the therapist they hired internally to help them as children after their mothers death. But an employee benefit package that is independent?

My point is that the argument that there is no recognition in the BRF for mental health issues falls flat given that this has been a major area of interest for Kate, William, and - at least at the time - Harry.

 

[Spikefan]

Harry basically published his own personal Burn Book.

You made me think of this, lol.

- YouTube

Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

m.youtube.com

 

[becca]

According to that article they didnt launch it for themselves But others? Its another campaign they have put their support to help others. My organization offers all sorts of programs for the community, but its not for the ‘staff‘. Do they have a employee benefit package (royals) that includes psychotherapists and social workers that is external to their royal system? Like our regular associations do? I am not talking about the therapist they hired internally to help them as children after their mothers death. But an employee benefit package that is independent?

The point that was made to Meghan is she is not considered an employee. So should seek it outside.

I found the argument she couldn’t get a therapist a little bit questionable. Especially since Harry said that after his fight with William his first call was his therapist.

And previously he said William urged him into therapy.

Apparently way back in the past Charles urged Diana into therapy and got some himself.

Now maybe she didn’t have the contacts.

I think Meghan being so fiercely independent and use to controlling her own image likely was not a good fit for the royal family.

I think In terms of their heir and scape goat.

If it came down to protecting William or Harry it was always Wiiam
No doubt.

But William was also never allowed to get away with the stuff Harry did. Either he did far less escapades

Harry was pretty protected by the royal family. He apparently didn’t have the scores to get into the military.

There may be an investigation if was removed from front lines before drug tests.

Harry benefited hugely from being a member of the royal family and he doesn’t look better now that he controls his own image

 

[morqet]

I'd say that arguably the reverse is true if you look at Charles vs. Andrew. The expectations and responsibilities are greater if you are the heir.

The best model for so-called spares, as others have noted, is not found in the BRF; it's Princess Madeleine of Sweden, who's built a good life for herself and her family.

I think it goes in two ways with Charles and Andrew - the Queen clearly let Andrew get away with much more than anyone else, but Andrew was (and maybe still is) resentful of the way his daughters are treated compared to Charles's sons. And it's tough because it's very easy to justify the Yorks having no security paid for, not getting the big Westminster Abbey weddings covered by the BBC etc just based on where they are in the line of inheritance. But on a personal level I can imagine it is difficult to come to terms with the perception that your children are "lesser" than their cousins through no fault of their own.

(Now I'm thinking about it, maybe the Queen's lenience and indulgence of Andrew was a misguided attempt to appease him following his own loss of status once Charles had children. It's toxic all the way through! Abolish the monarchy.)

 

[taf2002]

Well I’m sure the publisher has delighted in all the revelations. So they aren’t going to stop him.

And I’m not sure Harry has anyone around him to say ‘no’ anymore.

I can't believe Meghan wouldn't have told him no in no uncertain terms. It makes me think she didn't get to see it before he sent it to the publisher. I can't think of a woman I know who would stay with a man (or else get him in serious therapy) who revealed all these nasty details about his life, esp his sex life & his wanker. And a woman with any feminist feelings at all would be horrified by the "ugly teacher" story. I wonder what's going on in their house now.

 

[becca]

I think it goes in two ways with Charles and Andrew - the Queen clearly let Andrew get away with much more than anyone else, but Andrew was (and maybe still is) resentful of the way his daughters are treated compared to Charles's sons. And it's tough because it's very easy to justify the Yorks having no security paid for, not getting the big Westminster Abbey weddings covered by the BBC etc just based on where they are in the line of inheritance. But on a personal level I can imagine it is difficult to come to terms with the perception that your children are "lesser" than their cousins through no fault of their own.

(Now I'm thinking about it, maybe the Queen's lenience and indulgence of Andrew was a misguided attempt to appease him following his own loss of status once Charles had children. It's toxic all the way through! Abolish the monarchy.)

Once could point out Princess Madeleine is not the spare her brother is.

But yes I don’t think William was nearly as coddled as Harry was in fact Harry even says that William resented Harry got away with more I think in some ways he was parentied.

I think they are probably far stricter with the heir the last thing they would want to create is another Edward VIII. Spoiled with no sense of duty.

The Queens father was certainly not coddled as the spare


Princess Anne and Prince Edward turned out okay. Princess Anne had her riding. Prince Edward tried to make a career in the arts didn’t work but still lived quiet life. I think both just accepted they weren’t the heir deal with it.

Both are raising their kids with the attitude of you will have to get a job and work hard. Which is why no prince or princess for their kids even thing the Queen offered Anne and Edwards kids could.

I think Andrew and Harry would have benefited more from being raised with the whole you aren’t the heir deal with it because you are still a very privileged child. You will have to work hard and find your own way.

No point of talking about spare because with life expectancy and modern medicine it’s not likely a spare will be needed

 

[becca]

I can't believe Meghan wouldn't have told him no in no uncertain terms. It makes me think she didn't get to see it before he sent it to the publisher. I can't think of a woman I know who would stay with a man (or else get him in serious therapy) who revealed all these nasty details about his life, esp his sex life & his wanker. And a woman with any feminist feelings at all would be horrified by the "ugly teacher" story. I wonder what's going on in their house now.

Well Meghan approved the Cut. I am not sure the two realize how they come accross at times. Do we really think Harry didn’t ask about the lip gloss story.

There is plenty of talk that the palace did try to teach Meghan protocol and that she just did not want to listen.

 

[Karen-W]

BTW I'm off now to search for a copy of the book in the darknet.

The book will be available for sale on Tuesday...