Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[once_upon]

From personal experience - not all verbal and other abuse is seen by others in the family.

When the spouses confront the person doling out the abuse, the other family members and circle of friends jump to the defense of the abuser, ESPECIALLY if they are dependent on the good will of the abuser. When the one spouse (the one blood related) does not publicly continue that defense, it is difficult sometimes impossible for the relationship to survive.

I suspect Harry learned quickly growing up, how the winds would blow being the "spare" and all. Learned who the BRF and public would believe and was quiet to keep the peace when he was alone in that world.

I for one am glad he is supportive of Meaghan. I'm glad he feels supported by her to tell his story.

I wonder how the situation would play out if Catherine was bi-racial, had been married before, had a successful career as an actress and William chose her. Would the BRF have accepted her, would the public have accepted her? Would the BRF questioned who ethnicity Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis would favor? If any Meaghan detractors are truly, truly honest - they would say No.

As I read the linked article, it depends upon the definition of year - the calendar or fiscal year. Does it read that Charles provided funds for H&M through March, and the BRF fiscal year begins April? Calendar year vs Fiscal year - words matter in terms on monetary support.

 

[Judy]

I think everyone deserves to be happy no matter who they are. None of us would survive living there.

Loved the shots of little Archie!

 

[Tesla]

My sympathy lies with Meghan.

I actually think Harry is a lot and I totally related to Williams statement "I've put my arm around my brother all our lives. I can't do it any more".

​

Well, yeah. Of course Harry is a lot. He was the spare. He was raised a prince. I'm pretty sure William is a lot, too. I'm glad Harry and Meghan have each other as support.

 

[Allskate]

Just to be clear, the issue of security is not just about the money. Harry wasn't allowed to get security even when there was time to plan for it (as opposed to the sudden withdrawal of security when he was in Canada and under threat) and he was the one who would be paying for it. What he apparently did pay a "price" for was not being perfectly compliant with the wishes of the royal family and palace.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62265278

His team also said he had not been aware that a top aide to the Queen, with whom he faced "significant tensions", had played a role in the decision to downgrade his security.

 

[Cachoo]

My sympathy lies with Meghan.

I actually think Harry is a lot and I totally related to Williams statement "I've put my arm around my brother all our lives. I can't do it any more".

​

What constitutes "a lot" in that family?

 

[Allskate]

What constitutes "a lot" in that family?

Good question. One could say that William is "a lot" and that Charles is a "a lot."

I have respect for Harry for getting help, getting healthier, maturing, and improving himself. I can imagine that being raised the way that he was and losing his mother would be "a lot." He seems to have a healthier and more realistic perspective about the "institution" than other family members. I wonder if having served in the military is part of that. Also, his mother clearly had an impact on him even though she died when he was quite young. Watching the Netflix series, it was clear that he had spent more time in Africa than I had realized.

Also, wasn't that quote attributed to William by a tabloid? Even if real, at least Harry has the guts to say things directly to the media rather than planting things in tabloids.

 

[Cachoo]

But what was it that he did that was "a lot?" I am asking because Andrew is considered the bad boy and deservedly so. But as far as I can remember Harry missteps were wearing a Nazi shirt as a joke and appearing in a photo with a naked girl which everyone at the time, including me, thought was more amusing than anything. So WHAT on earth are they talking about?

 

[overedge]

There has been clarification about when Charles actually stopped supporting Harry financially. The impression people got from the Oprah interview was not accurate.

Prince Charles Did Cut Off Harry and Meghan, but Not Until the Summer of 2020

The Sussexes and Clarence House agree on the timing of when Charles cut off their funding—but it does put Harry’s comments from the Oprah Winfrey interview in a new light.

www.vanityfair.com

I think we can be sympathetic to Harry and Meghan but still fact check some of their assertions. They wouldn't be the first people to retell a story in a manner that is more flattering to their POV.

At the same time I was watching the documentary, I was reading Tom Bower's book Revenge. The two sources made good counterpoints to each other

For example, in the documentary Meghan claimed that her girlfriends threw her the baby shower in NYC and it was unfair that she got criticized for it (paraphrasing). Bower says that people working for Meghan organized the shower for her and she did a lot of the planning. It was in NYC partly because Meghan didn't have many friends in the UK, which is kind of sad.

One thing that Bower's book claims, which I hadn't seen elsewhere, is that the story of the letter Meghan wrote as a kid about the sexist dish detergent ad has been misrepresented. Meghan wrote the letter, but it got ignored until her dad used some of his contacts in the media and sent it to them. If she had been an ordinary kid making the complaint, it might not have gone anywhere.

I highly recommend Revenge to balance out H&M's documentary. Bower is a very experienced biographer and while he's quite forthright about the Royal Family being out of touch with reality and Harry having had a very difficult life, he also mentions a lot of evidence that H&M's story conveniently overlooked.

 

[Allskate]

One thing that Bower's book claims, which I hadn't seen elsewhere, is that the story of the letter Meghan wrote as a kid about the sexist dish detergent ad has been misrepresented. Meghan wrote the letter, but it got ignored until her dad used some of his contacts in the media and sent it to them. If she had been an ordinary kid making the complaint, it might not have gone anywhere.

I don't see what the importance of this is. He isn't denying that Meghan wrote the letter, which seems to be what is the significant part of the story for understanding Meghan. It doesn't seem like a misrepresentation to me. If this is the kind of stuff that he set out to discuss in the book, then the book doesn't seem like a very good use of money or time to me. Actually, books that are celebrity profiles by authors who don't know the celebrity generally aren't my cup of tea. But, I have no doubt that there is a market for it even if this guy hasn't even met Meghan and Harry. You just need to look at the tabloids and their sales (and the piece by Clarkson) to know how much money there is to be made off of stuff written about Harry and Meghan.

But what was it that he did that was "a lot?" I am asking because Andrew is considered the bad boy and deservedly so. But as far as I can remember Harry missteps were wearing a Nazi shirt as a joke and appearing in a photo with a naked girl which everyone at the time, including me, thought was more amusing than anything. So WHAT on earth are they talking about?

I don't think Charles or William found this amusing. Harry doesn't seem to find it amusing at this point, either.

 

[once_upon]

What constitutes a lot of the planning for a shower?
I'm a nobody, and my friends all lived here, and there was no concern for celebrities privacy or security needs and I had a lot of input into a baby shower.

What date, what time, where, who to be invited, who should not be invited, any special dietary concerns, what type of gifts I had input on those decisions

People just wanted something to criticize her for.

 

[Cachoo]

I don't see what the importance of this is. He isn't denying that Meghan wrote the letter, which seems to be what is the significant part of the story for understanding Meghan. It doesn't seem like a misrepresentation to me. If this is the kind of stuff that he set out to discuss in the book, then the book doesn't seem like a very good use of money or time to me. Actually, books that are celebrity profiles by authors who don't know the celebrity generally aren't my cup of tea. But, I have no doubt that there is a market for it even if this guy hasn't even met Meghan and Harry. You just need to look at the tabloids and their sales (and the piece by Clarkson) to know how much money there is to be made off of stuff written about Harry and Meghan.



I don't think Charles or William found this amusing. Harry doesn't seem to find it amusing at this point, either.

Well the impression I had was that this was boys will be boys, particularly after returning from war, in a city where sex workers can operate legally if that is what this was. If THAT is it that is not very much at all. My idea of someone who might earn that distance is someone who is making a clean start, say after prison, and keeps following the same bad path.

 

[skategal]

What constitutes a lot of the planning for a shower?
I'm a nobody, and my friends all lived here, and there was no concern for celebrities privacy or security needs and I had a lot of input into a baby shower.

What date, what time, where, who to be invited, who should not be invited, any special dietary concerns, what type of gifts I had input on those decisions

People just wanted something to criticize her for.

Yes. Much ado about nothing.

I’m sure if her celebrity friends are hosting the shower, they aren’t the ones organizing it and whoever is organizing it, would ask Meghan what her preferences are and if she wants to be involved.

 

[overedge]

The importance of the letter is that Meghan uses that story to establish her credentials as a long time activist, and as proof that her activism has an impact. If it didn't happen as she says it does, that's worth mentioning.

And re the baby shower, this wasn't just a gathering of friends that got together for an informal afternoon. It was at a posh hotel and brands were solicited for attendee gifts etc in exchange for publicity. IMO Meghan is being selective in the facts by claiming that her girlfriends put it on for her. No doubt there were elements of it that were surprises for her, but she was very involved in organizing it.

And finally, Tom Bower isn't just any "celebrity biographer". He's a very thorough researcher and he has good sources. Read his book about Charles (The Rebel Prince) and you'll see that he doesn't hold back on criticizing the rest of the Royals as well.

Believe what you will, but Revenge reminded of the saying: if you encounter one unpleasant person in the morning, maybe it's that person that is unpleasant. If you encounter unpleasant people all day long, maybe it's you that's the unpleasant one.

 

[marbri]

What constitutes "a lot" in that family?

"A lot" in any family in the context I used with the quote attributed to William ( I don't know if the Times is a tabloid or the royal correspondent who wrote it is any more tabloid-y than say Omid Scobie ) applies to any families dealing with a family member with mental health issues (stemming from a very real childhood trauma) that by their own admission dealt with a lot of anxiety, panic attacks and anger issues that led to "years of chaos" to the point their brother (by their own admission) stepped in and said you need to get help, talk to someone (professional) to help you deal with what you have buried for all these years. And also went on to support a charity for mental health with his brother and his brothers wife.

Many times families in these situations spend the bulk of their worry on the specific individual to the detriment of their own mental and physical health. And find themselves labelled the villain in the process.

But I mean if you want to hang out in the shallow end where his only two flaws are wearing a Nazi costume and a party in Vegas go for it. I prefer to swim in the deep end.

 

[Cachoo]

"A lot" in any family in the context I used with the quote attributed to William ( I don't know if the Times is a tabloid or the royal correspondent who wrote it is any more tabloid-y than say Omid Scobie ) applies to any families dealing with a family member with mental health issues (stemming from a very real childhood trauma) that by their own admission dealt with a lot of anxiety, panic attacks and anger issues that led to "years of chaos" to the point their brother (by their own admission) stepped in and said you need to get help, talk to someone (professional) to help you deal with what you have buried for all these years. And also went on to support a charity for mental health with his brother and his brothers wife.

Many times families in these situations spend the bulk of their worry on the specific individual to the detriment of their own mental and physical health. And find themselves labelled the villain in the process.

But I mean if you want to hang out in the shallow end where his only two flaws are wearing a Nazi costume and a party in Vegas go for it. I prefer to swim in the deep end.

Thank you. I don’t follow them so this is news to me. I think I shall watch their special.

 

[Spikefan]

I don’t see a mental health issue as a flaw and we need to stop seeing them as such. William is definitely not equipped to deal with it but from history “the institution” thinks you should just deal with it. Neither brothers fault or flaw but definitely a a huge flaw of “the institution” which is really the thing that is A LOT.

 

[manhn]

What kind of connections does the dad have? He was part of the filming crew, no? Something to do with lighting. Anyways, for me, it's less about the dish detergent company making any changes and more about a kid writing the letter in the first place. I don't see any of those Nepo-Babies writing to dish detergent companies.

 

[shan]

What kind of connections does the dad have? He was part of the filming crew, no? Something to do with lighting. Anyways, for me, it's less about the dish detergent company making any changes and more about a kid writing the letter in the first place. I don't see any of those Nepo-Babies writing to dish detergent companies.

What are "Nepo-Babies"?

 

[Tesla]

What kind of connections does the dad have? He was part of the filming crew, no? Something to do with lighting. Anyways, for me, it's less about the dish detergent company making any changes and more about a kid writing the letter in the first place. I don't see any of those Nepo-Babies writing to dish detergent companies.

And so what if contacts were used. If something good came out of it, what’s the problem?

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

What are "Nepo-Babies"?

Extremely Overanalyzing Hollywood’s Nepo-Baby Boom

“Everywhere you looked, there was another child of a famous person booking a role.”

nymag.com

 

[skategal]

The importance of the letter is that Meghan uses that story to establish her credentials as a long time activist, and as proof that her activism has an impact. If it didn't happen as she says it does, that's worth mentioning.

And re the baby shower, this wasn't just a gathering of friends that got together for an informal afternoon. It was at a posh hotel and brands were solicited for attendee gifts etc in exchange for publicity. IMO Meghan is being selective in the facts by claiming that her girlfriends put it on for her. No doubt there were elements of it that were surprises for her, but she was very involved in organizing it.

And finally, Tom Bower isn't just any "celebrity biographer". He's a very thorough researcher and he has good sources. Read his book about Charles (The Rebel Prince) and you'll see that he doesn't hold back on criticizing the rest of the Royals as well.

Believe what you will, but Revenge reminded of the saying: if you encounter one unpleasant person in the morning, maybe it's that person that is unpleasant. If you encounter unpleasant people all day long, maybe it's you that's the unpleasant one.

To think that Meghan wouldn’t be involved in the planning of her baby shower is just weird to me.

Plus then you have celebrities hosting it.

To think they were going to plan and organize it is a stretch to say the least.

They don’t even organize their own meals or anything else.

 

[shan]

Extremely Overanalyzing Hollywood’s Nepo-Baby Boom

“Everywhere you looked, there was another child of a famous person booking a role.”

nymag.com

Thanks!

 

[ballettmaus]

I think the problem with the baby-shower wasn't the baby-shower itself but the optics. Meghan isn't British and then she had a baby-shower in a foreign country, with foreign people that she flew in for. Did she and/or Harry really expect that this would just be accepted?

I think a lot of things that happened early on are about the optics and that it looked like Meghan was rejecting certain things and, therefore, British traditions and customs. It may not have been the case, still, it looked like it.

With things like these, I keep going back to that I read that William suggested they wait and I keep wondering if certain things may not have happened had they waited. I think marrying into the royal family as a commoner is difficult enough, marrying into it as a foreigner is probably even more so and it seems a bit unfair of Harry that he didn't give Meghan time. I don't know if there's an equivalent in English but in German, we'd say he "threw her into cold water".

(For the record, I view that entirely separate from the racism she was faced with).

 

[manhn]

Personally I am over the criticism of the Royal Family of “not evolving” and then critizing Meaghan and Harry for not following tradition, but of course not condoning racism. As if that’s being “balanced.”

 

[overedge]

What kind of connections does the dad have? He was part of the filming crew, no? Something to do with lighting. Anyways, for me, it's less about the dish detergent company making any changes and more about a kid writing the letter in the first place. I don't see any of those Nepo-Babies writing to dish detergent companies.

He knew people in the news media from his experience as a lighting director. I don't think he worked on the commercial itself.

 

[overedge]

To think that Meghan wouldn’t be involved in the planning of her baby shower is just weird to me.

Plus then you have celebrities hosting it.

To think they were going to plan and organize it is a stretch to say the least.

They don’t even organize their own meals or anything else.

She characterized it in the documentary as her friends organizing the event for her. Bower's book claims that Meghan and her people were the main organizers. Which if that's true also begs the question of why someone so protective of their privacy would organize an event where (allegedly) companies were solicited to donate freebies in exchange for publicity.

Read the book. Believe it or don't, but it certainly raised some questions for me about the content of the documentary. And if Bower is so terribly wrong about major points in his book, H&M's aggressive lawyers will surely be after him.

 

[Allskate]

The importance of the letter is that Meghan uses that story to establish her credentials as a long time activist, and as proof that her activism has an impact. If it didn't happen as she says it does, that's worth mentioning.

Oh, please. You're really stretching how she's used it. "Credentials as a long time activist?" And, again, I see nothing contradictory. Also, if this is what someone (author or hater in the general public) is resorting to in order to try to pick Meghan apart, I think that's pretty pathetic. I can't take such a writer seriously.

 

[ballettmaus]

Personally I am over the criticism of the Royal Family of “not evolving” and then critizing Meaghan and Harry for not following tradition, but of course not condoning racism. As if that’s being “balanced.”

I, for my part, am over things getting interpreted into posts and others assuming that, for some reason, there must be a hidden agenda.

I said Meghan's actions may have looked like she was rejecting customs and traditions and that the reaction should have been expected by Harry and that is all that I meant. Period. I really don't care if she used a stylist or had her wedding dress designed by a British designer, I just don't think she/they should have been surprised over the reaction she/they received. You can't break with tradition and expect that it's instantly accepted by traditionalists. That is all I'm saying and that is where I think Harry is to blame.

And yes, I do view it as a separate issue from racism because I am capable of separating those two issues. But thanks for not calling me a liar outright but simply implying that I wasn't sincere.

 

[ballettmaus]

I wonder how the situation would play out if Catherine was bi-racial, had been married before, had a successful career as an actress and William chose her. Would the BRF have accepted her, would the public have accepted her? Would the BRF questioned who ethnicity Prince George, Princess Charlotte and Prince Louis would favor? If any Meaghan detractors are truly, truly honest - they would say No.

My first reaction was to say that I'm not sure William would have dated a bi-racial woman with the intention of marrying her and if he had, I'm not sure if he had gotten permission to marry her. But if she had been a British woman, maybe he would have. I'm sad to say, I think it depends on the signals he would have gotten from his family as William strike me as the kind of guy who would not have allowed himself to fall in love with a woman he knew he would not be allowed to marry.

I read that Harry talked about unconscious racism, so I would expect a bi-racial wife of William's would have been confronted with the same things Meghan was confronted with in the family.
As for the media, I don't know. I believe any foreigner who didn't fit neatly into the family and basically became British, would have been given a hard time by the media. As someone mentioned elsewhere, had Meghan been blonde and blue-eyed, her intelligence would likely have been called into question and, I'm assuming, possibly also the authenticity of her hair-color, eye-color and other body parts.

I also think there are three categories of writers. There are those who wrote and write racist things because they are racist. There are those who didn't know better and would benefit from education (I mean, this a country where parties where you dress up as a Nazi seems to be an accepted thing). And there are those who are mostly bothered by the fact that she's a foreigner who didn't fit their image of what a royal wife should be and not that she's a bi-racial woman.

But as far as I can remember Harry missteps were wearing a Nazi shirt as a joke and appearing in a photo with a naked girl which everyone at the time, including me, thought was more amusing than anything.

Wearing a Nazi shirt to a party is no more amusing that Blackface or wearing a KKK hood.

 

[MacMadame]

But what was it that he did that was "a lot?" I am asking because Andrew is considered the bad boy and deservedly so. But as far as I can remember Harry missteps were wearing a Nazi shirt as a joke and appearing in a photo with a naked girl which everyone at the time, including me, thought was more amusing than anything. So WHAT on earth are they talking about?

I assume they are talking about private behavior and private drama. Some people are "a lot." I don't know if Harry is one of those people but I wouldn't be surprised if he is. Or that William is too, for that matter.

The importance of the letter is that Meghan uses that story to establish her credentials as a long time activist, and as proof that her activism has an impact. If it didn't happen as she says it does, that's worth mentioning.

Activists use their contacts to achieve their goals. (I know this because I am one and I do that.) Her dad asking some friends to look at her letter makes the story sweeter to me. And lots of kids her age would never have even written a letter.

She characterized it in the documentary as her friends organizing the event for her. Bower's book claims that Meghan and her people were the main organizers. Which if that's true also begs the question of why someone so protective of their privacy would organize an event where (allegedly) companies were solicited to donate freebies in exchange for publicity.

I don't really understand what people expected or why what happened is at all remarkable. Having sponsors to donate stuff and help with costs is how celebrities have milestone parties. Meghan isn't some random person with a private life whose friends and families organize a low-key shower that doesn't make the news. She is and was a celebrity and she had a celebrity shower with her celebrity friends.

I also think there are three categories of writers. There are those who wrote and write racist things because they are racist. There are those who didn't know better and would benefit from education (I mean, this a country where parties where you dress up as a Nazi seems to be an accepted thing). And there are those who are mostly bothered by the fact that she's a foreigner who didn't fit their image of what a royal wife should be and not that she's a bi-racial woman.

You left out the racist ones. Because they absolutely exist.

Wearing a Nazi shirt to a party is no more amusing that Blackface or wearing a KKK hood.

It was the naked woman photo that was amusing.

And it's responses like these that do make it seem to me that people are interpreting everything they do in the worst possible light with no room for grace.

I get that Meghan is a polarizing person who rubs people the wrong way. But so much of the criticism she gets seems off-base to me. I'm not even really a fan of them (I am anti-monarchy, FTR) but I find myself defending them all the time because of things like insisting that they said they want privacy (when they didn't) but now they are doing things that put them in the spotlight -- those hypocrites! Or picking apart everything they do and say to find something to pounce on. Her dad got her letter noticed! Her shower wasn't in the UK and had sponsors! Etc. Etc.