When Nicky and Simon misstep, they misstep.

[orbitz]

Putting the offensive and derogatory comments aside, commentary almost never distracts me from the performances. Sometimes they can enhance it. I never understand why it bothers people. And don’t get me started on people who prefer networks due to commentary but you get fewer skating performances. Why in the world are Americans nostalgic for ABC when you get everything on Peacock or Olympic Channel or whatever? You miss Peggy Fleming that much?

I really do miss Gannon and Dick Button ("refrigerator brake", "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!", "baby balerina", etc.) . I wouldn't say I was the biggest fan of Peggy, but I do think she added something to the team: The Three Musketeers of figure skating.

 

[skateboy]

While I grew up with Dick and Peggy and sometimes feel nostalgic for their commentary, the truth is that Johnny and Tara are FAR better commentators than they ever were.

Uncle Dick, while oddly endearing, made countless egregious errors, and Peggy went from being a total d-bag to sickeningly saccharine sweet ("Oh, she's really FEELING this music!"). Barf.

 

[Skate Talker]

Personally I hate the way people feel free to say anything they want on social media now. To my way of thinking nothing Meagan said was incorrect and echoed how many others were feeling about it too. However, to my way of thinking it would have been more appropriate to direct those comments privately to ISU. ISU did make a grave mistake in hiring the original team who were clearly just not up to the job technically. Add in the socially-unacceptable comments and the stupid hot-mic comments - well it was a total disaster.

I absolutely love PJ Kwong commentary on BOLD. I learned so much from it. I think she was my first exposure to how commentary can be kind to every athlete, find something positive and still critique in a constructive way. But I also recall that many many skating fans found her commentary and delivery too boring for their taste and claimed it put them to sleep. For sure not me.

I appreciated that she could comment during the performance without distracting from it by being so low key. One could either pay close attention to her informative comments or easily block them out and get lost in the performance - or indeed both. I tended to do some of each, depending on how mesmerizing the skate was. It was great on replay to be able to go back and experience the skate whichever way I hadn't watched it the first time through.

So a note on commentators not knowing the sport when they are supposedly the expert - sadly I have to say that in the last several years especially it had become apparent that Kurt Browning was not keeping up with the requirement and scoring changes, and had not been watching much of the competitive skating. I was somewhat taken aback by the holes in his knowledge at the 2018 Olympics. I think the pay-cheque is for more than one's past experience in the sport and then just showing up and "winging it" at the current event. That said, for whatever reason this year he seems somewhat improved. Perhaps some of the new generation who have been doing streaming and tv broadcasts for CBC have inspired him to try to catch up.

(By the way, Carol Lane, caught your faux-pas on yda's TV broadcast. Since it was aired tape-delayed I cannot fathom why CBC did not edit that part on the afternoon broadcast, nor for the late-night partial repeat.)

 

[kwanfan1818]

The whole thing is a bit like Capone getting busted on tax evasion, but you gotta work with what you got.

 

[maatTheViking]

I saw nothing wrong with Duhamel’s comment. She expressed an opinion on Twitter, an opinion many shares.

I don’t think the fact that she commentates herself makes any difference.

That said, in general I think many semi-famous people have a very hard time on social media walking the the line between “personal use” - using social media as regular more anonymous people would and “professional use” - presented a highly edited public persona. Someone like Leonardo DiCaprio uses his Twitter very purposefully and edited (environmentalism), but he’s ofc a public person on a very different scale than Duhamel.

So, that’s all to say, I think what she said was fine and expeced.

And regardless, no one deserves to be called bitch.

along with all the other things. Good riddance

 

[misskarne]

However, to my way of thinking it would have been more appropriate to direct those comments privately to ISU.

No. Because then the ISU could have slipped it under the radar and ignored it. Keeping things "private" is how organisations like the ISU get away with doing things like continuing to appoint Simon and Nicky to the world feed. There is no way the ISU would have taken any action if the criticisms were all given privately.

And why should Duhamel's comments be kept private? Nicky and Simon's comments certainly weren't!

 

[I❤️Marina&Sergai]

FSU of all places, the land of ice dance fandom during the period of Euro political warfare (Scary Babs v. Princess Marina of Russia representing her married into Kingdom of France), is the place that taught me as a teenaged know nothing that Eurosport commentators, especially Simon Reed and Nicky Slater (the commentators on ice dance) were absolutely inept and incompetent at their jobs for a huge list of reasons.

For the past twenty something years I’ve been watching skating and hearing them, and retroactively watching old videos with them, they seriously have not improved at their job at all. Most people would be fired for such performances. I’m wondering who they’re sleeping with to have kept their jobs or if Eurosport simply doesn’t give a damn about figure skating.

Simon with Chris was usually ok since Chris would correct him or Simon would let Chris handle the technical aspects. With Nicky or on his own, which has happened, however…

Nicky Slater

Eurosport had Chris Howarth and Louise Walden covering worlds. I thought they were a decent team. Chris is willing to be very frank in his opinions, particularly in ice dance & Louise obviously knew the technical stuff. She’s still an active coach and got really into explaining things like the point at which you should turn on the circle for a bracket to be considered clean. But they aren’t as slick as people who have been commentating professionally, lots of pauses and you knows and likes. But overall, up there with Mark Hanretty as someone worth listening to.

I enjoyed their commentary this week. They had some really good insights and their critiques were fair. I like Mark too, considering Nicky Slater actually competed at world level he has never really offered any insights of what it’s like to compete at that level and consistently babbled on distracting from the performances. Sadly am not surprised at his and Reeds performance this week.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Maybe I'm thinking of Al. It's been too long. I just remember one that was really bad who didn't seem to care at all and was just marking time until retirement.

Tom Hammond. He was the absolute worst, and made his disdain for the sport abundantly clear.

Verne Lundquist, on the other hand, is a broadcasting legend, and clearly held a great deal of respect for the sport. I think he stopped commentating figure skating around 2000, after rights went from CBS to NBC.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Tom Hammond. He was the absolute worst, and made his disdain for the sport abundantly clear.

Verne Lundquist, on the other hand, is a broadcasting legend, and clearly held a great deal of respect for the sport. I think he stopped commentating figure skating around 2000, after rights went from CBS to NBC.

Yes! Thank you! Tom Hammond was the worst. That's exactly who I was thinking of. Al Trautwig wasn't that great either but Tom didn't hide the fact that he hated calling figure skating at all. He was just a nasty piece of work. It bugged me that he viewed skating as a punishment and the network probably did too.

 

[Bouffantrex]

I really do miss Gannon and Dick Button ("refrigerator brake", "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!", "baby balerina", etc.)

I never liked that "baby ballerina" line and it's even worse in retrospect.

Dick and Peggy were great in the 80s and 90s, but their commentary is only desirable today if you're looking at the past with rose-colored glasses--which is totally understandable with the state of today's world.

 

[Cachoo]

I really do miss Gannon and Dick Button ("refrigerator brake", "Good for you, Lucinda Ruh!", "baby balerina", etc.) . I wouldn't say I was the biggest fan of Peggy, but I do think she added something to the team: The Three Musketeers of figure skating.

I could just see the network powers that be today counseling Dick: “You can’t call her a cupcake!” I do miss him but I like Tara and Johnny too.

 

[Vagabond]

Putting the offensive and derogatory comments aside, commentary almost never distracts me from the performances. Sometimes they can enhance it. I never understand why it bothers people. And don’t get me started on people who prefer networks due to commentary but you get fewer skating performances. Why in the world are Americans nostalgic for ABC when you get everything on Peacock or Olympic Channel or whatever? You miss Peggy Fleming that much?

The proper place for commentary is while the skater isn't skating. Doing it doing the video repeat makes the most sense, but commercial broadcasters would prefer to sell at least some of that time to advertisers.

 

[floskate]

Yes! Thank you! Tom Hammond was the worst. That's exactly who I was thinking of. Al Trautwig wasn't that great either but Tom didn't hide the fact that he hated calling figure skating at all. He was just a nasty piece of work. It bugged me that he viewed skating as a punishment and the network probably did too.

Yep I've seen enough Tom Hammond footage of skating to agree with this. Also Al Trawtwig I've seen mostly through gymnastics broadcasts and he was just dreadful and said some terrible things about the US girls over the years. It caught up with him finally over the Simone Biles furore he created.

 

[VGThuy]

I don't think people are thinking that they prefer "less" performances when they said they preferred the commentary from other networks. They're not thinking about coverage and commentary together. And during ABC's contract with the ISU, it was before the days of internet and app streaming and smart phones/TVs. I'm sure had ABC/ESPN had their contract with the ISU, they would have made streaming options available for the whole competition as well, especially if they're just doing what Peacock is doing most of the time and using the ISU world feed. NBC has had this contract for a long time and Peacock is still relatively new. For many years with NBC, we had to rely on Ice Network and with the outdated flash video tech.

 

[caseyedwards]

lol the Russian figure skaters didn’t invade Ukraine. They should have been at worlds! 100% fake worlds

 

[VGThuy]

lol the Russian figure skaters didn’t invade Ukraine. They should have been at worlds! 100% fake worlds

The first legitimate World Championships since at least 2015!

 

[floskate]

The first legitimate World Championships since at least 2015!

Amen to that! The bitterness is real.

 

[Judy]

I totally agree on this, and that bothers me far more about Simon and Nicky than their faux pas that was accidentally caught. So I am happy they are being replaced, for whatever reason it came about.

Plus Simon covers other sports like tennis, and it is evident he has done far more homework on them than he does on figure skating, which makes it even more inexcusable, when skating is the sport he probably covers most.

I think it’s the ISU’s responsibility to put good commentators in place (I feel they have never put any value in that). You need people that have kept up with the sport and all the changes.

 

[Deleted member 221]

One thing I appreciate about the British commentators is their best-in-class impartiality and lack of obvious conflicts of interest. In the rare case there is a conflict of interest, it's openly disclosed. I feel like some standards of journalistic integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are upheld.

North American commentators have promoted "reality show" figure skating for a long time, and it only seems to be getting worse. They are are by and large cheerleaders for the home team without even a pretense of objectivity. Conflicts of interest, like being the choreographer for the program, are never mentioned. The presenter, if any, eggs on the shenanigans rather than arbitrates or adds objectivity. There nothing journalistic or sportsmanlike about most of the commentary. Ragging on your rivals on twitter fits right in.

I'm surprised, but then again not surprised, that people don't appreciate how unethical Duhamel's behavior was. Twitter is not the appropriate venue for her comments. She is a paid TV commentator, not a random person. Can't stick IMHO after this one and make it go away. Duhamel needs to decide whether she wants to be a journalist or a fan. Her twitter is wildly inappropriate for anyone in a paid commentary position.

 

[manhn]

I don't think people are thinking that they prefer "less" performances when they said they preferred the commentary from other networks. They're not thinking about coverage and commentary together. And during ABC's contract with the ISU, it was before the days of internet and app streaming and smart phones/TVs. I'm sure had ABC/ESPN had their contract with the ISU, they would have made streaming options available for the whole competition as well, especially if they're just doing what Peacock is doing most of the time and using the ISU world feed. NBC has had this contract for a long time and Peacock is still relatively new. For many years with NBC, we had to rely on Ice Network and with the outdated flash video tech.

When I was really into skating and had everything on dvd and vhs, I could remember the number of programs each network aired for every event. So, whenever contracts switched to another network and posters either cheered or sneered because of whatever commentator, my post about the new network will result in 1 or 2 more/less programs fell on deaf ears.

The thing is, what streaming service would ABC FOX OR CBS put skating on?

In short, quantity over quality.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I'm surprised, but then again not surprised, that people don't appreciate how unethical Duhamel's behavior was. Twitter is not the appropriate venue for her comments. She is a paid TV commentator, not a random person. Can't stick IMHO after this one and make it go away. Duhamel needs to decide whether she wants to be a journalist or a fan. Her twitter is wildly inappropriate for anyone in a paid commentary position.

Journalists in Canada call each other out on Twitter all of the time. It's standard practice for comms Twitterati. I don't follow her feed so I don't know its general contents (I'm sure I wouldn't much like it), but there wasn't anything wrong with MD's specific tweet that apparently caused Nicky and Simon to use a sexist slur in reference to her.

 

[maatTheViking]

Sadly am not surprised at his and Reeds performance this week

For one confused moment I thought you were talking about Cathy Reed, then remembered Simon is named Reed too.

Btw is Cathy still involved in skating?

 

[jao86]

For one confused moment I thought you were talking about Cathy Reed, then remembered Simon is named Reed too.

Btw is Cathy still involved in skating?

Cathy is coaching in Japan! She has a number of junior teams.

 

[Frau Muller]

Yeah, it was CBS. And I always found Lundquist to be very well-spoken and supportive of skaters. Are you maybe thinking of NBC and Al Trautwig? Because yeah, that one was.. not good.

ABC had the late Chris Schenkel in that role of non-specialist sidekick. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Schenkel

He had some of the most vapid comments but it was the expected style back then. My favorite, as Rodnina/Zaitsev skated: “Irina collects teacups & doesn’t she look delicate on the ice!”

 

[Coco]

Tom Hammond was so horrible. I never understood how he had a job, until I listened to him call track and field. He loves track and field and it was just shocking to hear the difference between the way he called that sport and the way he called skating.

If you are trying to boost ratings and build an audience, how in God's name can you justify putting somebody on the air who clearly dislikes the sport?

 

[caseyedwards]

The first legitimate World Championships since at least 2015!

Right…talk about bitter!

 

[jenny12]

I never liked that "baby ballerina" line and it's even worse in retrospect.

Dick and Peggy were great in the 80s and 90s, but their commentary is only desirable today if you're looking at the past with rose-colored glasses--which is totally understandable with the state of today's world.

Yeah, Dick sometimes made good points and I liked his appreciation for simple, clean lines and good positions. However, looking at some of his comments through a modern lens shows how icky some of it was: “baby ballerina”…”delicious young things”…”refrigerator break”…I also remember him calling Gregor Filipowski a street urchin .

 

[AYS]

For one confused moment I thought you were talking about Cathy Reed, then remembered Simon is named Reed too.

Btw is Cathy still involved in skating?

She was mentioned as a choreographer for one of the skaters or teams this week but I can’t remember who it was. It was nice to hear her name.

ETA: it was Mana Kawabe.

 

[Yuri]

One thing I appreciate about the British commentators is their best-in-class impartiality and lack of obvious conflicts of interest. In the rare case there is a conflict of interest, it's openly disclosed. I feel like some standards of journalistic integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are upheld.

North American commentators have promoted "reality show" figure skating for a long time, and it only seems to be getting worse. They are are by and large cheerleaders for the home team without even a pretense of objectivity. Conflicts of interest, like being the choreographer for the program, are never mentioned. The presenter, if any, eggs on the shenanigans rather than arbitrates or adds objectivity. There nothing journalistic or sportsmanlike about most of the commentary. Ragging on your rivals on twitter fits right in.

I'm surprised, but then again not surprised, that people don't appreciate how unethical Duhamel's behavior was. Twitter is not the appropriate venue for her comments. She is a paid TV commentator, not a random person. Can't stick IMHO after this one and make it go away. Duhamel needs to decide whether she wants to be a journalist or a fan. Her twitter is wildly inappropriate for anyone in a paid commentary position.

This is one of the points I was trying to make on the pairs thread: as a TV commentator AND a coach of one of the top pairs in the competition, it was totally unethical and unprofessional for Meagan to tweet or like tweets criticizing Nicky and Simon. Not the same thing at all for a retired KMT or fans to do so, that's fair game. As Louis said, are you a fan or a commentator? Pick one.

No one has yet to answer my questions on the pairs thread:

• what exactly triggered Nicky & Simon to make the TBFC comment; and
• how did everyone seem to know immediately their comments were directed at Meagan, when they didn't even say her name?

I will also add the question of whether someone with a 40-year career who apologizes within 24 hours for a "private" comment can be forgiven. Or does cancel culture not permit any chance of redemption for a big mistake? This happened to long-time baseball announcer Thom Brennaman as well last summer, despite his profuse on-air apologies for an unfortunate hot mic LGBTQ comment referencing Kansas City. Or the Jon Gruden situation when private emsils forced his resignation as head coach of the NFL's Las Vegas Raiders. It seems 1984-style Orwellian to me.

Personally, I love what Kaitlyn Weaver (I think?) is doing to turn this very unfortunate situation into a positive. I believe she has proposed to market and sell TBFC t-shirts and other items and use any profits to provide relief to Ukraine. I hope we can all at least agree that's a worthy goal and a way to move on from this mess.

 

[Lemonade20]

Honestly I don't disagree on his comments on Meaghan. I am Canadian, and literally could never stand her. She almost makes Jamie Sale appear likeable. And he thought his mike was off, but I guess this is a lesson to everyone, wait until you are completely off job and in private before you let those kinds of thoughts slip.

Meaghan can rub people the wrong way, but it's still unprofessional to share those thoughts when working, off or on record.