USFS' Athlete Selection Procedures for 2022 Olympics

[Karen-W]

Red herring? Sorry, don’t really agree. You’re looking at it strictly from a points perspective, which is way too narrow.

Pretty much every athlete who’s ever described their first Olympic experience talks about how overwhelming it is, how nothing can prepare you for it, etc, etc. In a situation like that, are you really going to throw a newbie in to pinch hit at the last minute? He might not be able to lose that many points for the team, but how do you think he’s going to feel if he underperforms badly, which is not exactly far fetched? Do you think maybe there’s a reason why they might not want to put a 16-year old kid in that position?

Oh, please. He's going to be happy to come home with an Olympic medal, that's how he's going to feel.

And, really, talk about low hopes for him, in this hypothetical scenario of yours, saying it's "not exactly far fetched" that he will underperform badly.

Even if he doesn't skate as well as hoped in the TE FS, chances are that will light a fire in his belly to come back stronger than before and prove himself in the individual event - and, if we're talking specifically about Ilia, he might be a rather inconsistent competitor at this stage of his career but he has shown resiliency. His first JGP this year - he didn't have a really strong FS but he came back more focused than ever and put up the highest total score for JGP Men at his 2nd JGP. Then, at CS Austria, he was certainly disappointed with his terrible 13th place in the SP but he rebounded to 2nd in the FS. You're making way too much of "oh, his FEELINGS" than is fair to him or even consistent with how he's competed so far this fall. Furthermore, I expect that the rest of the Team USA TE skaters would rally around him before he even skated and tell him "don't worry how you do, we've got this and we're coming home with silver, no matter what you do."

 

[Tahuu]

No, Tahuu, it’s not what I hope for, and you must have quite a sad life if that’s what you expect of people.

You know what you think: “If Vincent got flu before the team event, Jason would get to replace him,” right?

 

[Karen-W]

Miner wasn't sent because the only success in his portfolio that year was nationals. He had the skate of his life and it was an amazing moment, but he bombed on the GP and USFS was looking for a consistent track record. Malinin is different because he has been doing well on the international circuit this season, even if it's at the junior level.

Anyway, I don't see Malinin passing Brown unless Brown completely tanks or is injured. Jason may not have quads (or at most, has one iffy quad), but he usually maxes out the rest of his elements.

Exactly! Just for grins & giggles, I put the 2017-18 results into this year's Selection format. It's really eye-opening.

For Women & Pairs - they pretty much followed the results of Nats; for Dance - same except for the 2nd & 3rd Alternates - they assigned those based on Int'l Scores.

For Men - it was a mixed bag - first off - all of the guys were bunched into Group 3 that year - Nathan hadn't come close to breaking the Worlds 2017 Top 3 Men's score and wasn't consistently scoring equal to the 2017 Worlds Top 5 during the fall. The ONLY reason Ross qualified into Group 3 was because of his 2nd place at Nats, whereas Adam, Jason & Max were there because of their Int'l Scores.

So, the Selection Committee basically went down the list of Nats finishers and selected Nathan & Vincent who were there by virtue of both their Int'l Scores AND placing Top 3 at Nats. Then, it came down to Adam & Ross - and Adam would have been G4 just on Nats results alone but Ross wouldn't have made it into Group 4 on his Int'l Scores alone. Looking at it in those terms, it really was a no-brainer to select Adam over Ross.

And when it came to the Alternates - Grant Hochstein was in Group 4 by virtue of his 5th place finish and the Selection Committee gave him a pass and put Jason in as Alternate 1 by virtue of his Int'l Scores (and making the GPF I'm sure factored into the committee's thought process). Then, and only then, did Ross get chosen as 2nd alternate, and I suspect had Max not bombed so badly to finish 9th but instead finished a close 7th to Jason, he would have been named 2nd alternate ahead of Ross, but instead, by virtue of being in Group 3 due to his Int'l Scores, he was given the 3rd alternate spot.

Men
Group 3
O1 Nathan Chen (275.04 CS US Classic; 293.79 GP Rostelecom; 275.88 GP SkAm; 286.51 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 1st US Nats
O3 Adam Rippon (249.88 CS Finlandia; 261.99 GP NHK; 266.45 GP SkAm; 254.33 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 4th US Nats
A1 Jason Brown (259.88 CS Lombardia; 261.14 GP SCI; 245.95 GP NHK; 253.81 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 6th US Nats
A3 Max Aaron (261.56 CS US Classic; 259.69 GP CoC; 237.20 GP IdF) Int Scores G3 & 9th US Nats
O2 Vincent Zhou (250.01 CS Finlandia; 256.66 GP CoC; 222.21 GP IdF) Int Scores G3 & 3rd US Nats
A2 Ross Miner (219.96 CS ACI; 219.62 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 2nd US Nats

Group 4
Alexei Krasnozhon (222.39 CS Tallinn; 209.37 JGP Australia; 225.48 JGP Croatia; 236.35 JGPF) Int Scores G4 & 10th US Nats
Grant Hochstein (217.52 CS Nepela; 206.69 GP Rostelecom; 216.44 GP CoC) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Alexander Johnson (226.04 CS Nebelhorn) 8th US Nats
Timothy Dolensky (214.94 CS US Classic) 7th US Nats
Andrew Torgashev (CS Warsaw; 212.71 JGP Belarus; 205.56 JGP Italy; 160.49 JGPF) 13th US Nats
Sean Rabbitt (204.46 CS US Classic) 14th US Nats
Jordan Moeller (191.73 CS Lombardia) 15th US Nats

Women
Group 3
O1 Bradie Tennell (196.70 CS Lombardia; 204.10 GP SkAm) Int Scores G3 & 1st US Nats
O2 Mirai Nagasu (183.54 CS US Classic; 178.28 GP Rostelecom; 194.46 GP NHK) Int Scores G4 & 2nd US Nats
O3 Karen Chen (182.32 CS US Classic; 170.40 GP SCI; 182.80 GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
A1 Ashley Wagner (183.94 GP SCI; GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 4th US Nats
A3 Angela Wang (183.85 CS Finlandia; 160.04 CS Tallinn) Int Scores G4 & 7th US Nats
Courtney Hicks (174.16 CS ACI; CS Warsaw; 182.57 GP SCI) Int Scores G4 & 9th US Nats
A2 Mariah Bell (168.66 CS US Classic; 188.56 GP Rostelecom; 166.04 GP NHK) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Caroline Zhang (167.95 CS Nepela; 170.82 CS Tallinn) 11th US Nats
Polina Edmunds (142.20 CS Finlandia; 157.77 GP IdF) WD US Nats
Amber Glenn (149.96 CS Lombardia; 151.14 GP CoC) 8th US Nats
Paige Rydberg (119.71 CS US Classic) DNQ US Nats

Pairs
Group 3
O1 Alexa Scimeca Knierim/Chris Knierim (186.08 CS US Classic; 192.51 GP NHK; 189.07 GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 1st US Nats
A1 Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea Int Scores NG & 2nd US Nats
A2 Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay (165.36 CS US Classic; 161.17 CS Finlandia; 165.00 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
Chelsea Liu/Brian Johnson (181.40 CS US Classic; CS Warsaw) Int Scores G4 & 7th US Nats
Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran (176.38 CS ACI; 170.53 GP Rostelecom; 177.15 GP IdF) Int Scores G4 & 6th US Nats
A3 Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc (166.32 CS Lombardia; 176.35 CS Nebelhorn; 154.36 GP CoC) Int Scores NG & 4th US Nats
Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier (168.47 CS US Classic; 172.95 GP SCI; 172.16 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Jessica Pfund/Joshua Santillan (158.10 CS Nepela; CS Warsaw) 8th US Nats
Jessica Calalang/Zach Sidhu (146.86 CS ACI; 156.88 CS Finlandia) 9th US Nats
Erika Smith/AJ Reiss (134.25 CS Nepela) 10th US Nats

Dance
Group 1
O1 Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue (178.80 CS US Classic; 189.43 GP SCI; 188.35 GP NHK; 187.40 GPF) Int Scores G1 & 1st US Nats
O2 Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani (189.24 GP Rostelecom; 194.25 GP SkAm; 188.00 GPF) Int Scores G1 & 2nd US Nats

Group 2
O3 Madison Chock/Evan Bates (184.50 GP CoC; 181.85 GP IdF; 187.15 GPF) Int Scores G2 & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
A1 Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker (153.55 CS US Classic; 163.53 GP SkAm; 165.20 GP SCI) Int Scores G4 & 4th US Nats
A3 Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons (163.14 CS Nepela; 148.75 GP Rostelecom; 145.54 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
A2 Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter (154.50 CS ACI; 141.78 CS Finlandia; CS Warsaw; 157.61 GP CoC) 6th US Nats
Elliana Pogrebinsky/Alex Benoit (150.42 CS Lombardia; 150.47 GP CoC; 154.14 GP IdF) 7th US Nats
Julia Biechler/Damian Dodge (127.12 CS US Classic; 119.79 CS Finlandia) 10th US Nats
Karina Manta/Joseph Johnson (126.48 CS Nebelhorn) 9th US Nats

 

[Tavi]

Even if he doesn't skate as well as hoped in the TE FS, chances are that will light a fire in his belly to come back stronger than before and prove himself in the individual event - and, if we're talking specifically about Ilia, he might be a rather inconsistent competitor at this stage of his career but he has shown resiliency. His first JGP this year - he didn't have a really strong FS but he came back more focused than ever and put up the highest total score for JGP Men at his 2nd JGP. Then, at CS Austria, he was certainly disappointed with his terrible 13th place but he rebounded to 2nd in the FS. You're making way too much of "oh, his FEELINGS" than is fair to him or even consistent with how he's competed so far this fall. Furthermore, I expect that the rest of the Team USA TE skaters would rally around him before he even skated and tell him "don't worry how you do, we've got this and we're coming home with silver, no matter what you do."

Oh, well, I guess you’ve got that all worked out. Congratulations!

 

[Tavi]

You know what you think: “If Vincent got flu before the team event, Jason would get to replace him,” right?

You know, I’m not sure why I ever took you off ignore, but back you go.

 

[Karen-W]

You kno

Oh, well, I guess you’ve got that all worked out. Congratulations!

No, what I have worked out is as likely a scenario as the doom and gloom one you laid out for him. Jeez. Why act like he's so fragile that this might damage him forever?

 

[Tavi]

No, what I have worked out is as likely a scenario as the doom and gloom one you laid out for him. Jeez. Why act like he's so fragile that this might damage him forever?

You know, between you and the lovely Tahuu, I’ve kind of had my fill of over the top drama tonight.

 

[lurkz2]

Exactly! Just for grins & giggles, I put the 2017-18 results into this year's Selection format. It's really eye-opening.

For Women & Pairs - they pretty much followed the results of Nats; for Dance - same except for the 2nd & 3rd Alternates - they assigned those based on Int'l Scores.

For Men - it was a mixed bag - first off - all of the guys were bunched into Group 3 that year - Nathan hadn't come close to breaking the Worlds 2017 Top 3 Men's score and wasn't consistently scoring equal to the 2017 Worlds Top 5 during the fall. The ONLY reason Ross qualified into Group 3 was because of his 2nd place at Nats, whereas Adam, Jason & Max were there because of their Int'l Scores.

So, the Selection Committee basically went down the list of Nats finishers and selected Nathan & Vincent who were there by virtue of both their Int'l Scores AND placing Top 3 at Nats. Then, it came down to Adam & Ross - and Adam would have been G4 just on Nats results alone but Ross wouldn't have made it into Group 4 on his Int'l Scores alone. Looking at it in those terms, it really was a no-brainer to select Adam over Ross.

And when it came to the Alternates - Grant Hochstein was in Group 4 by virtue of his 5th place finish and the Selection Committee gave him a pass and put Jason in as Alternate 1 by virtue of his Int'l Scores (and making the GPF I'm sure factored into the committee's thought process). Then, and only then, did Ross get chosen as 2nd alternate, and I suspect had Max not bombed so badly to finish 9th but instead finished a close 7th to Jason, he would have been named 2nd alternate ahead of Ross, but instead, by virtue of being in Group 3 due to his Int'l Scores, he was given the 3rd alternate spot.

Men
Group 3
O1 Nathan Chen (275.04 CS US Classic; 293.79 GP Rostelecom; 275.88 GP SkAm; 286.51 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 1st US Nats
O3 Adam Rippon (249.88 CS Finlandia; 261.99 GP NHK; 266.45 GP SkAm; 254.33 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 4th US Nats
A1 Jason Brown (259.88 CS Lombardia; 261.14 GP SCI; 245.95 GP NHK; 253.81 GPF) Int Scores G3 & 6th US Nats
A3 Max Aaron (261.56 CS US Classic; 259.69 GP CoC; 237.20 GP IdF) Int Scores G3 & 9th US Nats
O2 Vincent Zhou (250.01 CS Finlandia; 256.66 GP CoC; 222.21 GP IdF) Int Scores G3 & 3rd US Nats
A2 Ross Miner (219.96 CS ACI; 219.62 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 2nd US Nats

Group 4
Alexei Krasnozhon (222.39 CS Tallinn; 209.37 JGP Australia; 225.48 JGP Croatia; 236.35 JGPF) Int Scores G4 & 10th US Nats
Grant Hochstein (217.52 CS Nepela; 206.69 GP Rostelecom; 216.44 GP CoC) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Alexander Johnson (226.04 CS Nebelhorn) 8th US Nats
Timothy Dolensky (214.94 CS US Classic) 7th US Nats
Andrew Torgashev (CS Warsaw; 212.71 JGP Belarus; 205.56 JGP Italy; 160.49 JGPF) 13th US Nats
Sean Rabbitt (204.46 CS US Classic) 14th US Nats
Jordan Moeller (191.73 CS Lombardia) 15th US Nats

Women
Group 3
O1 Bradie Tennell (196.70 CS Lombardia; 204.10 GP SkAm) Int Scores G3 & 1st US Nats
O2 Mirai Nagasu (183.54 CS US Classic; 178.28 GP Rostelecom; 194.46 GP NHK) Int Scores G4 & 2nd US Nats
O3 Karen Chen (182.32 CS US Classic; 170.40 GP SCI; 182.80 GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
A1 Ashley Wagner (183.94 GP SCI; GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 4th US Nats
A3 Angela Wang (183.85 CS Finlandia; 160.04 CS Tallinn) Int Scores G4 & 7th US Nats
Courtney Hicks (174.16 CS ACI; CS Warsaw; 182.57 GP SCI) Int Scores G4 & 9th US Nats
A2 Mariah Bell (168.66 CS US Classic; 188.56 GP Rostelecom; 166.04 GP NHK) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Caroline Zhang (167.95 CS Nepela; 170.82 CS Tallinn) 11th US Nats
Polina Edmunds (142.20 CS Finlandia; 157.77 GP IdF) WD US Nats
Amber Glenn (149.96 CS Lombardia; 151.14 GP CoC) 8th US Nats
Paige Rydberg (119.71 CS US Classic) DNQ US Nats

Pairs
Group 3
O1 Alexa Scimeca Knierim/Chris Knierim (186.08 CS US Classic; 192.51 GP NHK; 189.07 GP SkAm) Int Scores G4 & 1st US Nats
A1 Tarah Kayne/Danny O’Shea Int Scores NG & 2nd US Nats
A2 Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay (165.36 CS US Classic; 161.17 CS Finlandia; 165.00 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
Chelsea Liu/Brian Johnson (181.40 CS US Classic; CS Warsaw) Int Scores G4 & 7th US Nats
Marissa Castelli/Mervin Tran (176.38 CS ACI; 170.53 GP Rostelecom; 177.15 GP IdF) Int Scores G4 & 6th US Nats
A3 Ashley Cain/Timothy LeDuc (166.32 CS Lombardia; 176.35 CS Nebelhorn; 154.36 GP CoC) Int Scores NG & 4th US Nats
Haven Denney/Brandon Frazier (168.47 CS US Classic; 172.95 GP SCI; 172.16 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
Jessica Pfund/Joshua Santillan (158.10 CS Nepela; CS Warsaw) 8th US Nats
Jessica Calalang/Zach Sidhu (146.86 CS ACI; 156.88 CS Finlandia) 9th US Nats
Erika Smith/AJ Reiss (134.25 CS Nepela) 10th US Nats

Dance
Group 1
O1 Madison Hubbell/Zachary Donohue (178.80 CS US Classic; 189.43 GP SCI; 188.35 GP NHK; 187.40 GPF) Int Scores G1 & 1st US Nats
O2 Maia Shibutani/Alex Shibutani (189.24 GP Rostelecom; 194.25 GP SkAm; 188.00 GPF) Int Scores G1 & 2nd US Nats

Group 2
O3 Madison Chock/Evan Bates (184.50 GP CoC; 181.85 GP IdF; 187.15 GPF) Int Scores G2 & 3rd US Nats

Group 4
A1 Kaitlin Hawayek/Jean-Luc Baker (153.55 CS US Classic; 163.53 GP SkAm; 165.20 GP SCI) Int Scores G4 & 4th US Nats
A3 Rachel Parsons/Michael Parsons (163.14 CS Nepela; 148.75 GP Rostelecom; 145.54 GP SkAm) Int Scores NG & 5th US Nats

Other International Assignments
A2 Lorraine McNamara/Quinn Carpenter (154.50 CS ACI; 141.78 CS Finlandia; CS Warsaw; 157.61 GP CoC) 6th US Nats
Elliana Pogrebinsky/Alex Benoit (150.42 CS Lombardia; 150.47 GP CoC; 154.14 GP IdF) 7th US Nats
Julia Biechler/Damian Dodge (127.12 CS US Classic; 119.79 CS Finlandia) 10th US Nats
Karina Manta/Joseph Johnson (126.48 CS Nebelhorn) 9th US Nats

Purely hypothetical but since they're including 2021 Worlds as an international score for the criteria this year wouldn't 4CC have counted too? So Nathan's 307.46 at the 2017 4CC WOuLD move him into Group 2?

 

[Karen-W]

Purely hypothetical but since they're including 2021 Worlds as an international score for the criteria this year wouldn't 4CC have counted too? So Nathan's 307.46 at the 2017 4CC WOuLD move him into Group 2?

I have no idea what they would have done with 2017 4CCs (or 2017 Jr Worlds for that matter). Possibly? I suppose the same could be said of Karen Chen then, in that case, since she did finish 4th at 2017 Worlds, which would have been enough to qualify her into Group 3 for the Women just like it does this season.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

goner: someone or something with no chance of surviving or succeeding

How could a goner in sport referred to dying make sense to you?

Wow, you really are a charmer, aren’t you?

 

[Tahuu]

You know, I’m not sure why I ever took you off ignore, but back you go.

Ok but don’t forget your rubber ear plugs.

When you take cheap shots and call other posters rude, you should expect a response. In the context of my early post, the word “goner” has nothing to do with describing someone is dead. There are numerous “x’s a goner” sports headlines talking about a coach or athlete has no chance, is gone, fired, traded or waived. If you feared Jason fit that description, that’s on you.

When you, as a Jason uber, postulated should Vincent get the flu before the Olympic team event Jason could replace him as one of reasons to select Jason to the team, no one would need both eyes to see what you are hoping for. When you resorted to personal attack and called me a miserable sad life, I knew I got you right.

My two cents to you: ultrauberism is unhealthy. Your fav may not be that much better than others as you believe.

 

[Tavi]

Ok but don’t forget your rubber ear plugs.

When you take cheap shots and call other posters rude, you should expect a response. In the context of my early post, the word “goner” has nothing to do with describing someone is dead. There are numerous “x’s a goner” sports headlines talking about a coach or athlete has no chance, is gone, fired, traded or waived. If you feared Jason fit that description, that’s on you.

When you, as a Jason uber, postulated should Vincent get the flu before the Olympic team event Jason could replace him as one of reasons to select Jason to the team, no one would need both eyes to see what you are hoping for. When you resorted to personal attack and called me a miserable sad life, I knew I got you right.

My two cents to you: ultrauberism is unhealthy. Your fav may not be that much better than others as you believe.

Sorry, but you’re seeing things that aren’t there.

Most people, however much they like a skater, are not so wrapped up in their success that they spend hours obsessing about them, wishing ill to their competitors, or tying their own happiness to the success of their favorites. You apparently are the kind of person who does those things, added to which you apparently don’t understand that both your comprehension of English and your written use of it is imperfect enough to cause misunderstanding. The fact that you only ever express hateful thoughts suggests that’s the kind of world you live in. I feel sorry for you.

 

[Tahuu]

Didn’t you say you went out off your way to Google Ms Lundgren after skate Canada and hit out at her being rich and giving Jason low score? That’s a pretty miserable life to me.

 

[VGThuy]

I admit that I called Sharon Rogers out once and it was in the USFS tweet, hoping she'd see it.

 

[Tavi]

Deleted

 

[RoseRed]

I have no idea what they would have done with 2017 4CCs (or 2017 Jr Worlds for that matter). Possibly? I suppose the same could be said of Karen Chen then, in that case, since she did finish 4th at 2017 Worlds, which would have been enough to qualify her into Group 3 for the Women just like it does this season.

The 2021 4CCs and Junior Worlds are on the list for events included in selection, but crossed out because they didn't happened obviously. So I think they would have counted if we were using this year's criteria back then.

 

[Aceon6]

Children, please. Use the data. And if you’re using your heart, clearly label it as such. We have more than a month to go and lots can happen. Save the vitriol for the selection committee if when they make a selection blunder.

 

[Karen-W]

The 2021 4CCs and Junior Worlds are on the list for events included in selection, but crossed out because they didn't happened obviously. So I think they would have counted if we were using this year's criteria back then.

Yes, I think those scores would have definitely been used/considered if this had been the format in 2018. And, like I said, the only changed would have been moving Nathan to Group 2 and moving Karen up to Group 3. All of the other groups would have been the same. So, essentially, the options available for the Selection Committee would not have been any different. There were 5 men in Group 3 plus Nathan - those six were the ones selected for the team and alternates.

It is hard to know what the Committee would do this year but should Ilia manage to bump his JGPF score up so that for a 2nd time he scores equal to Top 10 at 2021 Worlds, that would put him in Group 3 and, even if his best is still 10-15 points off of Jason's median, I suspect they would stick with Nationals results and put him on the team if he beats Jason. That's what they did with Vincent for the 2nd spot in 2018 even though his best was still about 10 points lower than Adam.

For what it's worth, I think the same is true with the Women. If Mariah and Lindsay can bump their scores up over the next few weeks and slip into Group 3 then I expect the Committee will go with Nationals results. I'm not sure what that means for Bradie's chances - she might need to win or finish a close 2nd to Alysa to have any shot.

 

[Aceon6]

FWIW, I think Bradie will need a clean lutz combo to be considered. I do not have any personal knowledge of her injury, but the lutz combo probably involves the most torque. Should she be able to manage them in the short and long, I’m sure they will look at her medical reports and assess the risk of reinjury before making a decision.

 

[missing]

I've been thinking about the selection for the men's team and my current feeling is if at Nationals Nathan and Vincent in some order or another take gold and silver, a younger skater takes bronze and Jason takes pewter (or less), then the younger guy should be named to the team. If this takes some renegotiation on the part of the selection committee, casually overlooking rules they claimed to have set up, they should do it.

I was a big fan of Jeffrey Buttle and I saw much of what I loved about his skating in Jason, the artistry, the musicality, the ability (no small thing) to bring out the best in his choreographers. I certainly didn't love either for his quad mastery. But one thing Jeffrey had that I don't think Jason does is the ability to think while he's skating. When Jeffrey made a mistake, he corrected it later in the program to regain the lost points. Jason seems to be sliding into the opposite direction, turning triples into doubles and doubles into singles. This could be why Jeffrey ended up with 2 world medals (including gold) and an Olympic medal, while Jason has never reached that level of international success.

Should Jason win bronze thanks to a high PCS score and noticeably lower TES scores than the pewter winner, were I the Olympic selection committee, I'd have a long visit with Jason, Tracy and Brian and I'd explain to them that the Olympics is not a vanity event and that Jason is expected to skate without mental errors.

If it's any comfort, should Hanyu make the Japanese Olympic team with a less than brilliant skate (or with no skate at all), I'd expect the Japanese Olympic selection committee to explain to him and his coaches that the Olympics is not a vanity event, but I'd give Hanyu a Pooh bear or two to make the lesson more palpable.

 

[Karen-W]

I've been thinking about the selection for the men's team and my current feeling is if at Nationals Nathan and Vincent in some order or another take gold and silver, a younger skater takes bronze and Jason takes pewter (or less), then the younger guy should be named to the team. If this takes some renegotiation on the part of the selection committee, casually overlooking rules they claimed to have set up, they should do it.

Well, the selection criteria is set up so that some younger man, should he win bronze, will automatically jump into Group 3 along with Jason. What the committee does at that point is up in the air.

 

[MacMadame]

I've been thinking about the selection for the men's team and my current feeling is if at Nationals Nathan and Vincent in some order or another take gold and silver, a younger skater takes bronze and Jason takes pewter (or less), then the younger guy should be named to the team. If this takes some renegotiation on the part of the selection committee, casually overlooking rules they claimed to have set up, they should do it.

I think whether they should or not depends on who that 3rd place skater is including their track record.

 

[VGThuy]

Oh yeah I’m sure Jason is simply choosing to skate with “mental errors” and a stern talking to would sort that out…

 

[Stephanie]

I think whether they should or not depends on who that 3rd place skater is including their track record.

And also the margin (score-wise) between 3rd and 4th

 

[Rukia]

Oh yeah I’m sure Jason is simply choosing to skate with “mental errors” and a stern talking to would sort that out…

Has anyone checked to see how often he goes out for ice cream and/or bubble tea?

 

[missing]

Oh yeah I’m sure Jason is simply choosing to skate with “mental errors” and a stern talking to would sort that out…

The belief is in baseball that a manager will accept an error a player makes because players are humans and humans make mistakes. But a manager will be angry if a player makes a mental error because that indicates the player isn't concentrating on the ballgame at that moment.

Jason made two major mental errors in his free skate in France. If he'd only made one, he would have gotten silver and wouldn't have to depend on bad skates by others to get into the GPF.

If Jason is incapable at this point of doing a clean short program or a free skate with triple loop and (at very least) a double salchow in a three jump combo, then his choreography or the coaching he's getting on jumps needs serious reevaluation. If he is capable and is failing anyway, that's a mental error and needs to be addressed as such.

 

[VGThuy]

The belief is in baseball that a manager will accept an error a player makes because players are humans and humans make mistakes. But a manager will be angry if a player makes a mental error because that indicates the player isn't concentrating on the ballgame at that moment.

Jason made two major mental errors in his free skate in France. If he'd only made one, he would have gotten silver and wouldn't have to depend on bad skates by others to get into the GPF.

If Jason is incapable at this point of doing a clean short program or a free skate with triple loop and (at very least) a double salchow in a three jump combo, then his choreography or the coaching he's getting on jumps needs serious reevaluation. If he is capable and is failing anyway, that's a mental error and needs to be addressed as such.

You make it sound like he never thought to analyze or attempted to deal with his mistakes post-competiton with his coaches and his own pressures. You should tweet to him or comment on his IG to address his mental errors.

 

[missing]

You make it sound like he never thought to analyze or attempted to deal with his mistakes post-competiton with his coaches and his own pressures. You should tweet to him or comment on his IG to address his mental errors.

I was under the impression that FSU was a place where skaters' successes and failures could both be discussed. I hadn't realized we were limited to praise and not criticism.

What a relief that will be for Eteri Tutberidze, her coaches, choreographers and skaters. Will you tweet them the good news or should I?

 

[VGThuy]

I was under the impression that FSU was a place where skaters' successes and failures could both be discussed. I hadn't realized we were limited to praise and not criticism.

What a relief that will be for Eteri Tutberidze, her coaches, choreographers and skaters. Will you tweet them the good news or should I?

It’s also a place where people can discuss other people’s assumptions and arm-chair coaching. Discussing and analyzing a performance is one thing, but you’re going into Jason and his teams’ actual habits, acting like skating is easy by telling them to simply not make “mental mistakes” - so many mistakes in skating is mental since the mechanics of jumps and landings are so precise and require specific timing to get right that it’s easy to have a mistake -, and then you took a position that USFS should tell him an Olympic spot is not a vanity project so we expect no more mistakes. Aka making an assumption that Jason thinks getting into the Olympics is just a vanity project. Not that he isn’t training and working hours upon hours every day - putting his body to the limit - and didn’t just deal with a fracture over the summer working his damndest to make the team.

It’s like some fans think assume skaters are simply coasting when actually they’re doing the best they can with the physical condition they’re given and the fact that the sport is simply hard - it’s an Olympic sport after all. If to succeed was easy and to succeed in sport was just physical, then 95% of athletes in tough sports around the world wouldn’t make the mistakes they make. But it happens often so it shows “mental mistakes” are not actually easy to solve.

Anyway, why should it be just him who needs a talking to? They have a whole slew of pairs teams and ladies skaters who could use such useful advice along with other men as well. I’m sure every competitor hasn’t heard some variation of that piece of vague advice ever in their lives and just need to be told to stop making mistakes - as if skaters aren’t the ones who are hardest on themselves and haven’t already beaten themselves up over their mistakes. They sure are lazy, happy-go-lucky people. You need to get them in shape! All I I suggested was that since it seems to know a lot about what Jason has or hasn’t done and have such a great piece of coaching to provide - why don’t you spread your wealth of knowledge to him? I mean it was so insightful and practical.

 

[beckab81]

The belief is in baseball that a manager will accept an error a player makes because players are humans and humans make mistakes. But a manager will be angry if a player makes a mental error because that indicates the player isn't concentrating on the ballgame at that moment.

Jason made two major mental errors in his free skate in France. If he'd only made one, he would have gotten silver and wouldn't have to depend on bad skates by others to get into the GPF.

If Jason is incapable at this point of doing a clean short program or a free skate with triple loop and (at very least) a double salchow in a three jump combo, then his choreography or the coaching he's getting on jumps needs serious reevaluation. If he is capable and is failing anyway, that's a mental error and needs to be addressed as such.

Something like not counting revolutions carefully on a spin would be the same type of “mental error” as you mention in baseball, IMO.

Jason knows he needs to maximize his points, both TES and PCS. Let’s say he tried to force the loop or salchow when he was already off balance or off timing - most likely he would have underrotated and fallen. Not only would have have hurt his combo GOE even more, it could result in his PCS getting capped from too many mistakes, causing him to finish even further down.

He and his team are extremely aware of what they need to do, and I don’t think a “talking-to” would make any sort of positive difference (it would probably add even more pressure).