Keeping Track of Criminal Cases & SafeSport Suspensions in Skating

[skatfan]

What did he write? The link didn’t work for me.

The posts were deleted.

 

[Tavi]

Surely, if he had been “hacked” that would have came out since it’s essentially an argument for complete innocence since he in no way committed the act of which he was accused, which there was evidence of as shown by the deleted tweets. And since it seems the SafeSport investigation seems to have concluded, nothing is stopping him from screaming on top of his lungs that he has been hacked and he is totally innocent. Even the accused in confidential criminal investigations by law enforcement can speak and publicly attest to their innocence if they want to. If he had been hacked, you bet he would be shouting that all day today rather than deleting or suspending his social media accounts once this all came out.

I guess I don’t like making assumptions about things.

 

[bethy135]

What did he write? The link didn’t work for me.

I saw the screen shots. They were so bad they cannot be posted here. I do not think I could bear to type out any quotes even if I wanted to - just don't have it in me.

 

[skateboy]

What did he write? The link didn’t work for me.

I sent you a PM.

 

[letsskate]

I sent you a PM.

do you mind sending me a PM too? i couldn't open the link either.

 

[misskarne]

I guess I don’t like making assumptions about things.

Good thing we don't need to then, hey. Since it's already been investigated by authorities and they have clearly determined that sexual harassment took place.

If they were fake, Miner is always free to say something. But in 48 hours all we've had is him deleting his socials, and him and the club dodging phone calls. Not a fabulous look.

 

[rfisher]

I'd delete my social media as well irrespective of innocence or guilt. But, I would think Safesport gives someone an opportunity to defend themselves during the course of the investigation which takes some time to complete. And, has been completed since they've rendered a judgment. They aren't starting an investigation; they finished one, ergo, Minor has had his opportunity to refute any charges against him and Safesport found the person making the claim against him to be more credible. He wasn't hacked.

I'm not sure what public response he could or should make at this point. If there are any legal issues at play, I'd suspect his attorney has advised him to say nothing.

 

[Tavi]

Good thing we don't need to then, hey. Since it's already been investigated by authorities and they have clearly determined that sexual harassment took place.

If they were fake, Miner is always free to say something. But in 48 hours all we've had is him deleting his socials, and him and the club dodging phone calls. Not a fabulous look.

The flaw in your reasoning is that you don’t know what facts the charge was based on. You’re making assumptions based on a tweet citing an anonymous source with “knowledge” of the case and attaching screenshots of unknown provenance - a tweet was later deleted. Without more, those screenshots and the allegations in the tweet would never hold up as evidence in court, at least in the US. To be clear, I’m not saying the screenshots were or weren’t doctored, nor am I saying the allegations in the tweet are wrong and the screenshots are unrelated to his suspension by SafeSport. I’m saying we don’t know those things for a fact, and I choose not to make assumptions. I also wouldn’t assume anything just because he hasn’t made a public statement.

 

[thvu]

It didn't take long for the Ross Miner apologists to surface.

 

[haribobo]

Also worth nothing- look at the whole picture...when there is a sudden exodus from a training camp as there has been from MJM, its often because the whole camp is in trouble for something (covering up a Safesport matter), not just cause they are taking a break or whatever...

Their music and choreo was weaksauce anyway. Listening to his podcast with Polina recently, Ross wasn't well prepared by his camp to understand the BoW argument, and to me that is irresponsible coaching. Seems strange that a skater of his abilities was always so mediocre in the fall. Maybe USFS saw things at Champs Camp etc that none of us saw, who is to say Ross didn't show up untrained or had a reputation for being racist and harrassy there too.... just a thought. That Mark was so taken aback by the decision goes to show he really wasn't paying attention and had his head buried in the sand in 2014 when Ashley was chosen over Mirai (not exactly the same situation but similar). Whether or not it was the "right" call, they should have been more prepared. As all the gymnasts were for total shenanigans whenever Martha Karolyi named a team. Good riddance to Martha, Ross, Peter, and Mark!

 

[VGThuy]

The flaw in your reasoning is that you don’t know what facts the charge was based on. You’re making assumptions based on a tweet citing an anonymous source with “knowledge” of the case and attaching screenshots of unknown provenance - a tweet was later deleted. Without more, those screenshots and the allegations in the tweet would never hold up as evidence in court, at least in the US. To be clear, I’m not saying the screenshots were or weren’t doctored, nor am I saying the allegations in the tweet are wrong and the screenshots are unrelated to his suspension by SafeSport. I’m saying we don’t know those things for a fact, and I choose not to make assumptions. I also wouldn’t assume anything just because he hasn’t made a public statement.

So it’s then ok to make up defenses like he was hacked even though he himself didn’t say such a thing? That was the initial point of the post you originally responded to. I also think it’s curious that’s what’s being focused on and not the blatant racist and sexist content which was one of the most disgusting things I’ve read.

 

[Coco]

I'm so glad he got caught. Major high five to the young lady who turned him in. I hope she's not hurt by the lame ass suspension

Someone like Ross, who up until now had a positive image and public sympathy because of getting Mirai'd out of the Olympics, he could have been pulling this shit for a long time.

 

[Tavi]

So it’s then ok to make up defenses like he was hacked even though he himself didn’t say such a thing? That was the initial point of the post you originally responded to. I also think it’s curious that’s what’s being focused on and not the blatant racist and sexist content which was one of the most disgusting things I’ve read.

Where did I say it was okay to make up defenses? My response to you was factual only. To the extent you were referring to a public defense and not an argument made to SafeSport, that wasn’t clear to me. As to rest of your comment, of course the screenshots are disgusting. For the record, I’ve experienced my share of sexual harassment over the years and been frustrated not to be believed or to have action taken. I’ve also had the pleasure of testifying before a grand jury as the victim of a violent crime only to have the guy plea bargain his way to a light sentence. So I’d appreciate if you didn’t make assumptions about what I value based on the fact that I haven’t commented on the content of those screenshots.

 

[VGThuy]

Many of us have been sexually harassed as women. We are more likely to experience that and sexual assault as well in our lifetimes. There’s still a great number of women coming to men’s defenses right away to the point of bending over backwards. I didn’t say you were one of them but I did think it was curious that the discussion has now taken this turn and the focus is on Ross and people making assumptions about him. This happens in every sexual assault-related thread. This would less likely to happen if he was accused of say attempted murder instead.

As for your post being factual. The only facts out there are that an investigation was conducted and was finished resulting in a suspension of six months for sexual harassment. You’re right that we don’t know if that screenshot was one of the pieces of evidence used, but the screenshot did exist. Someone presented it to the public and the fact is that no one but someone else who was not Miner desperately came up with a hacking/doctored story when nobody from his camp nor he presented that. That was the point of my original post that you quoted that started this whole rabbit hole of a discussion in the first place.

 

[AnnM]

Why are people always so eager to make excuses for men behaving badly at the expense of children?

 

[Vagabond]

Unless I have missed something because I have someone on Ignore, no one here is making excuses for Ross Miner but rather saying that we don't know for sure any of the specifics of what Miner did or whether those screen shots were genuine.

Miner was found to have committed violations, and I think that SafeSport should be more specific in what it tells the public while still respecting victims' privacy. If, as it appears, Miner sent explicitly sexual text messages laden with racist epithets and stereotyping, then SafeSport should say that's why he was suspended. It would send a clear message that what Ross Miner did is unacceptable.

 

[VGThuy]

What was initially asked was why are people saying the screenshot of a Snapchat conversation between Ross Miner (showing his actual Snapchat account conversing with another person) wasn't genuine or that he was hacked or that the shot was doctored when he himself did not present that defense. Yes, a defense because the initial conversation started with someone being happy to participate in this discussion in here because elsewhere people were defending him and saying he was "hacked".

Then we went down this rabbit hole where I started to wonder why do people start making up defenses when they don't need to do so, and such defenses that the accused/defendant did not offer himself. We saw that happen a lot with the Coughlin and Cipres thread.

Outside of whether that screenshot was part of the sexual harassment investigation, what we had was a Twitter user presenting to the public a screenshot of the Snapchat conversation between Ross and a younger female user (we're "assuming") where he made a bunch of racist and sexually-tinged comments to her. Called her "chink" multiple times, she responded to him by calling him "racist", he posted a video of an "awkward sex scene" from the movie Team America, made more lewd comments like referring to a finger in her vagina as a "twat-sticker" making fun of the fact that she was Asians and Chinese restaurants serve "pot stickers", called her "chink" a few more times, said she was "yellower than a fortune cookie" and made a bunch of other comments.

Now, as an observer, we have that one screenshot showing all of that. Now, if we wanted to look at what he had to say for himself, there's nothing there. He didn't say he never wrote such things, he didn't say it was hacked...and if he was indeed hacked or if the screenshot was doctored, then that would have totally cleared his name, so of course he would say something like that if that was true. So, by not presenting a defense, this prompted people who did not want to "make assumptions" to start creating defenses on his behalf. You can't just make something up and offer it as equal evidence just because he himself didn't think to do it. You can still say you don't find the screenshot in of itself enough to judge Miner, but of course the nature of that screenshot was so bad that it'd be hard to say such a thing.

Until there is credible evidence to refute the screenshot, then I will only take what was presented and not what people made up. If Miner refutes the authenticity of the screenshot, then I will listen.

Also, now that we're going to the idea that we don't know whether that screenshot was used as evidence in the SafeSport investigation, a new direction we're now being twisted into, then why bring up that the SafeSport investigation is confidential and that Ross may not be able to speak freely, which is actually false. If that screenshot has nothing to do with his sexual assault suspension, then it has nothing to do with the investigation and thus he would totally be able to speak and defend himself from that accusation.

 

[Vagabond]

I did miss something because I do have a certain someone on Ignore.

And I can live with that.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

the Snapchat conversation between Ross and a younger female user ...

WTF?!?! He should never be allowed to coach again.

 

[Yuri]

I'm so glad he got caught. Major high five to the young lady who turned him in. I hope she's not hurt by the lame ass suspension

Someone like Ross, who up until now had a positive image and public sympathy because of getting Mirai'd out of the Olympics, he could have been pulling this shit for a long time.

Why are people always so eager to make excuses for men behaving badly at the expense of children?

Did I miss something, but exactly WHERE is the evidence that the victim is a young girl/minor? Lots of assumptions going on!

The Christine Brennan article did not mention whether the victim was male or female, a minor or an adult, race or ethnicity, or even whether it involved a coach/student relationship. I couldn't tell from the deleted SnapChat conversation any of these items, either, including whether or not the victim is an Asian. All we know for sure is that Ross was suspended by SafeSport for six months for sexual harassment. Period. The fact that Ms. Brennan and/or her USA Today editors chose to not reference the alleged SnapChat conversation that was all over social media gives some weight to its lack of credibility (they didn't verify it), as in the past Brennan has not hesitated to publish those sort of scandalous and salacious details about SafeSport investigations. The USA Today article stuck to the limited facts without any speculation, and would have been extremely short but for referencing past investigations.

 

[overedge]

It might not be that they didn't verify it. It might be that they tried but they couldn't verify it.

 

[rfisher]

Whether or not the Snapchat posts were relevant to Safesport's investigation and decision, they were highly offensive and disturbing in light of the increased violence toward the AAPI community.

 

[overedge]

@Yuri If the victim weren't Asian, why would Miner be sending racial slurs against Asians and calling the recipient racist terms associated with Asians?

 

[Rukia]

It...doesn't matter if the victim was Asian or underaged. The things he said were incredibly evil no matter who they were written to. And he and his camp have had plenty of time to issue the standard "these were fabricated" or "he would never say such hateful things" and they just haven't. Take from that what you will I guess.

 

[once_upon]

I agree with @rfisher. The snapchat posts may or may not have been part of Safe Sports investigation, BUT they were posted and screen shot captured. At the very least, it shows extremely poor judgment and that he should not be allowed to have them dismissed as "not credible". What I saw of them (through screen capture), they absolutely where reasons for censor and suspension. The assumption needs to be there was enough other evidence for Safe Sport to do the actions taken.

There have been enough public cases of people being terminated from their jobs for posts or other social media that anyone and everyone should know that ANYTHING posted will be available for ANYONE to read and screen captured.

 

[just tuned in]

It...doesn't matter if the victim was Asian or underaged. The things he said were incredibly evil no matter who they were written to. And he and his camp have had plenty of time to issue the standard "these were fabricated" or "he would never say such hateful things" and they just haven't. Take from that what you will I guess.

Right. No, "Um, I was drunk and will be entering re-hab." No apology issued at all.

 

[Judy]

So it’s then ok to make up defenses like he was hacked even though he himself didn’t say such a thing? That was the initial point of the post you originally responded to. I also think it’s curious that’s what’s being focused on and not the blatant racist and sexist content which was one of the most disgusting things I’ve read.

Social media I am sure has been used in court cases in the U.S.? It certainly has in Canada … I’ve seen it in successful murder conviction murder cases. I don’t generally follow other cases unless it’s a huge case and smaller cases usually don’t make the news. Obviously it’s not the only evidence.

Sorry that was more directed at tavi. I don’t grasp why it doesn’t pick up the two conversations.

 

[Judy]

Did I miss something, but exactly WHERE is the evidence that the victim is a young girl/minor? Lots of assumptions going on!

The Christine Brennan article did not mention whether the victim was male or female, a minor or an adult, race or ethnicity, or even whether it involved a coach/student relationship. I couldn't tell from the deleted SnapChat conversation any of these items, either, including whether or not the victim is an Asian. All we know for sure is that Ross was suspended by SafeSport for six months for sexual harassment. Period. The fact that Ms. Brennan and/or her USA Today editors chose to not reference the alleged SnapChat conversation that was all over social media gives some weight to its lack of credibility (they didn't verify it), as in the past Brennan has not hesitated to publish those sort of scandalous and salacious details about SafeSport investigations. The USA Today article stuck to the limited facts without any speculation, and would have been extremely short but for referencing past investigations.

They may also not be allowed to legally write about it because it may give away the identity of the victim.

 

[Tavi]

Social media I am sure has been used in court cases in the U.S.? It certainly has in Canada … I’ve seen it in successful murder conviction murder cases. I don’t generally follow other cases unless it’s a huge case and smaller cases usually don’t make the news. Obviously it’s not the only evidence.

Sorry that was more directed at tavi. I don’t grasp why it doesn’t pick up the two conversations.

Yes it has. But if you’re trying to get stuff like that into evidence in court, there are rules you need to follow to prove that it’s reliable before a court will accept it as true. That might mean, for instance, subpoenaing SnapChat to get copies of their records to show that they match the screenshots posted on Twitter. Or having the person who received texts from Ross (not the person who posted them on Twitter) sign a sworn affidavit saying, I got these texts from Ross Miner on date x and this is a true and correct copy of what I received and yes he actually said this crap to me. Or something like that. That’s why I said that without more, they wouldn’t stand up in court.

 

[rfisher]

Yes it has. But if you’re trying to get stuff like that into evidence in court, there are rules you need to follow to prove that it’s reliable before a court will accept it as true. That might mean, for instance, subpoenaing SnapChat to get copies of their records to show that they match the screenshots posted on Twitter. Or having the person who received texts from Ross (not the person who posted them on Twitter) sign a sworn affidavit saying, I got these texts from Ross Miner on date x and this is a true and correct copy of what I received and yes he actually said this crap to me. Or something like that. That’s why I said that without more, they wouldn’t stand up in court.

But, we have no idea if the Snapchat posts are relevant to SafeSport's decision. It could have been made on other evidence. They could have verified them if they were relevant. None of which takes away from the fact they were offensive. SafeSport used whatever evidence was relevant to making their decision and they do not make that public in order to protect the aggrieved party. The public has to assume they did due diligence in making their decision. But, again, Miner made offensive posts on social media. Somebody did a screen shot of the posts and there you have it. Two separate events that may or may not be related and it doesn't matter. The posts are what they are. SafeSport suspended him for sexual harassment. There you have it.