Russian Ladies news & discussion

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Why do you think that? Last year Kostornaia was set to win worlds, or Anna, or Trusova. I think it really likely that our next Oly champion will be young, because they are that good!

No, it is because they are that pre-pubescent. If they are really that good, let's see them continue to win with triple Axels, quads, etc with a fully grown woman's body. I am SICK of the throw away children winning LADIES figure skating just to be cast away for the next 15-year-old the next season. Let's let the prepubescent children stay in junior where they belong. Let's let ladies seniors be for adults. Again, if the children really are that good, they will have no problem winning in the senior division once they become adults.
 
No, it is because they are that pre-pubescent. If they are really that good, let's see them continue to win with triple Axels, quads, etc with a fully grown woman's body. I am SICK of the throw away children winning LADIES figure skating just to be cast away for the next 15-year-old the next season. Let's let the prepubescent children stay in junior where they belong. Let's let ladies seniors be for adults. Again, if the children really are that good, they will have no problem winning in the senior division once they become adults.
I am with you on figuring out ways that our young ones don't be the replaceable ones. But I was responding to a completely different argument - that a 15-year-old would not be allowed to win again. Given that our rules allow them to compete and they are landing jumps of a significantly higher difficulty, then yes, one of them will deserve to win, however bad an idea that might be for them and the sport. And one of them will, it seems.
 
But the powers-that-be obviously wanted to get away from 15 year old girls winning the Olympics. Which is why they're going to raise the age after the Olympics.
Curious what makes you say this. I could be wrong but I'm not aware that there has been anything other than peripheral or preliminary discussion on raising the age limit, certainly nothing that resembles a decision on the matter.
 
Why do you think that? Last year Kostornaia was set to win worlds, or Anna, or Trusova. I think it really likely that our next Oly champion will be young, because they are that good!
I think that because of the push after AZ1 the Olympics 3 years ago at the age of 15 and back loading was a key element they got rid of the back loading right away and people started talking about raising the age limit. Now the raising the age limit topic is very much on the table and probably will happen

No question Aliona was the favorite for worlds last year. With Anna and Sashal close behind.
 
Curious what makes you say this. I could be wrong but I'm not aware that there has been anything other than peripheral or preliminary discussion on raising the age limit, certainly nothing that resembles a decision on the matter.
I hope you're right and it's just preliminary discussion but I thought it was something much more serious than that and that it was going to happen after the Bejiing Olympics.
 
I have very little desire to watch the Russian junior girls anymore, but I'm sad Osokina couldn't place any higher than 7th. :cry:
Why?

I think the competition was good especially considering they've been training and a pandemic for the last 8 months.

And being 7th in that super deep field is no disgrace.

Can you imagine if Kamilla Dasha and Maia were there too?
 
Alina Zagitova and Evgeniya Medvedeva were invited last night to appear on an evening TV Show on Channel 1, "Evening Urgant".

They were asked to talk about the upcoming Team Event and to give some details. The interview is in Russian, but towards the end they were asked to participate in a contest, as dog owners/lovers. That part does not need translation, it starts @ 10:25 (worth watching, super cute).
 
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I think that because of the push after AZ1 the Olympics 3 years ago at the age of 15 and back loading was a key element they got rid of the back loading right away and people started talking about raising the age limit.

You might be right, but I wish they wouldn’t make changes like that right after an Olympics. Getting rid of backloading was a mistake — it was thrilling! It was also a reactionary move: had they kept it, it would have been a way for skaters without quads to compete a little more in tech with the quad skaters. I think if the ISU just changed the rules for ladies so that they were scored on the same system as men (quads allowed in the short program, PCS counts for more), they wouldn’t even have to raise the minimum age... I’d also love to see 5-jump combos in the free skate and whatever else people can do!
 
1. Akatieva- Next to Kamila, Sofia is my favorite up and comer. Her skating to me is exquisite. So uncluttered, poised, controlled and precise. I love her posture, best of all the ladies. I'm glad she won, she was clearly the class of the field, save perhaps for Samodelkina. Deserved win, which she probably should have won last year over Kamila.
2. Adelia- Wow to her spins. She is just so tiny. Her jumps are super tiny (that Axel?). She seems fast, and I like her energy.
3. Muravyova/eva/whateva- I just don't understand her. People have been raving about her for years, and I don't see it. She is terribly unpolished. She has the flailing unnecessary purposeless arm movements that limits her to being just an unremarkable junior skater who is capable of landing her jumps. When you are skating to Liebestraum, flailing purposeless arm movements just for the sake of moving your arms to show "artistry" is barely watchable to me. Tarakanova has the same problem, and makes for an uninteresting and unpleasant viewing performance. Her jumps are pretty ugly, totally hunched and ugly in the air, almost always uncomfortably bent forward on almost all of her landings. Even her best jump in that program, the final RLutz, was just meh to me. Extend the landings too dearie.... ETA: Do you think if she just relearned her jumps to all Rippons she would be straighter in the air and hence on her landings?
4. Samodelkina- I was expecting Akatieva and Samodelkina to go 1/2. Yes, she was gifted in the SP, which was outrageous. I mean, EVERYONE could see she earned a 3ACOMBO in the SP. But anyway, the LP. I can see why she took out the 4Loop, since she was only two points behind, but WHY in the world would she take out her 3axels for the LP??? Those are consistent jumps for her. I'm not an Uber-fan of her presentation, but she clearly is listening to the music and despite her at times rounded and hunched back and shoulders, she has a very good presentation. But at this point, I've prepared myself to be seeing those two overdone programs for five more years leading up to her Olympic gold medal performances. New programs STAT to CSKA, CodeOverdone in progress at Team Davydov.
5. Berestovskaya- Uggh. NOT my cup of tea. Woefully slow, no air on her juniorish jumps (all spin-jumps with no air). Plus she has form and posture issues. And then, there's my biggest pet peeve of hers (or anyones for that matter...): The FACEography. Just no. These phony plastic smiles are way too much and overdone. Thank god she dropped Kalinka because that was even worse. I mean, when you warmup your 2axel in the 6 minute warmup and land with the automatic SURPRISED BIG "O" SMILE, it's annoying, unnatural, and obnoxious. Which describes her skating for me. Plus, she's going to lose her low and slow jumps with that slip slide technique. She is growing into a very pretty young lady though.
6. Frolova- I like her skating. I like that she is actually PRESENTING herself in her skating. She's always just going to be a second tier Russian skater, but that's still impressive.
???. Zhilina- Well, this was a surprise though really not a shocker. She was just a hot mess. And I don't know what Plushy or her mother have done to her programs, but this new version of Samson/Delilah was just so empty, rushed, unfinished, and well, she looked like a starting novice skater (albeit with a 4toe, but I'm talking about her skating and her choreography). What a horrible program and placement, she might not even make the JGP now, which is a shocker. Her skating has regressed since the beginning of the fall. And it's not a CV thing, it's her SKATING.
 
....
3. Muravyova/eva/whateva- I just don't understand her. People have been raving about her for years, and I don't see it. She is terribly unpolished. She has the flailing unnecessary purposeless arm movements that limits her to being just an unremarkable junior skater who is capable of landing her jumps. When you are skating to Liebestraum, flailing purposeless arm movements just for the sake of moving your arms to show "artistry" is barely watchable to me. Tarakanova has the same problem, and makes for an uninteresting and unpleasant viewing performance. Her jumps are pretty ugly, totally hunched and ugly in the air, almost always uncomfortably bent forward on almost all of her landings. Even her best jump in that program, the final RLutz, was just meh to me. Extend the landings too dearie.... ETA: Do you think if she just relearned her jumps to all Rippons she would be straighter in the air and hence on her landings?
....
LOL! That’s exactly how I feel about Levito-Le”NOT-Oh” in the US.
 
You might be right, but I wish they wouldn’t make changes like that right after an Olympics. Getting rid of backloading was a mistake — it was thrilling! It was also a reactionary move: had they kept it, it would have been a way for skaters without quads to compete a little more in tech with the quad skaters. I think if the ISU just changed the rules for ladies so that they were scored on the same system as men (quads allowed in the short program, PCS counts for more), they wouldn’t even have to raise the minimum age... I’d also love to see 5-jump combos in the free skate and whatever else people can do!
ISU is like politicians.

I totally agree with your post especially about how thrilling it was with the back loading and how so dam hard it was to do. They got rid of backloading so fast because of the uproar from the anti Russians anti Eteri faction in the figure skating world.

I also agree with you they have to start treating the girls and women the same as boys and then way the quad allowed in the SP.
 
Significant backloading/frontloading is almost always detrimental to a "well-balanced program." The difference is that the first is quantifiable by the clock and a fixed reward percentage, and the second is qualitative and up to the judges.
 
I don't mind them changing the rule to only give the last 3 jumps a bonus necessarily. I was big fan of Alina's DQ and thought she filled out the first half of the program well, but Everyone was going to start doing it and most of them I would not have been able to stand watching do nothing for 2 minutes. I also thought that points should come off the "well-balanced program" criteria, which would have been fair without really hurting her scores.
I really doubt the age limit will be raised, but really believe they'll start letting quads in the short, which will further tip the scales the wrong way I think.
 
I don't mind them changing the rule to only give the last 3 jumps a bonus necessarily.
Plus giving judges guidance for them to seriously punish programs that visibly back-load OR front-load, and programs that cluster similar elements together. FFS, Alina's DQ was seg - spin - seq - jump - jump - jump - spin - jump - jump - jump - jump - spin.
 
I don't mind them changing the rule to only give the last 3 jumps a bonus necessarily. I was big fan of Alina's DQ and thought she filled out the first half of the program well, but Everyone was going to start doing it and most of them I would not have been able to stand watching do nothing for 2 minutes. I also thought that points should come off the "well-balanced program" criteria, which would have been fair without really hurting her scores.
I really doubt the age limit will be raised, but really believe they'll start letting quads in the short, which will further tip the scales the wrong way I think.
Not everyone was going to start doing it. Every time this discussion comes up, it's like posters are in this delusional world where they think all of those jumps thrown together in less than 2 (late) minutes will be a piece of cake for everyone. We saw Zagitova melt down in spectacular fashion a month after the Olympics, and there was no way to catch up or get the program back once the mistakes started. ALSO, it worked extremely well with Don Quixote when she was on and I will argue to the end with anyone who says otherwise, but so much of that required precise timing and explosive jumps. Throwing all the jumps in at the end for a mediocre all-around skater probably has them losing a bunch of GOE and not getting PCS because there may not be (any) cohesion.

I 100% did not agree with the rule getting rid of incentive to backload. It is a HUGE risk and it should be rewarded accordingly. If the program sucks as a result, then the PCS should reflect such.

By limiting everything, you're actually making 95% of programs have the same general formula.

ETA- we saw endless skaters as it was still putting 4 or 5 jump elements as all of their first elements in a row even when the (unlimited) bonus option was there. We saw skaters doing difficult elements 10 seconds before the bonus. Yet everyone was going to jump on the 'all past the halfway point' strategy as if it was that easy? Please :lol:
 
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Not everyone was going to start doing it. Every time this discussion comes up, it's like posters are in this delusional world where they think all of those jumps thrown together in less than 2 (late) minutes will be a piece of cake for everyone. We saw Zagitova melt down in spectacular fashion a month after the Olympics, and there was no way to catch up or get the program back once the mistakes started. ALSO, it worked extremely well with Don Quixote and I will argue to the end with anyone who says otherwise, but so much of that required precise timing and explosive jumps. Throwing all the jumps in at the end for a mediocre all-around skater probably has them losing a bunch of GOE and not getting PCS because there may not be (any) cohesion.

I 100% did not agree with the rule getting rid of incentive to backload. It is a HUGE risk and it should be rewarded accordingly. If the program sucks as a result, then the PCS should reflect such.

By limiting everything, you're actually making 95% of programs have the same general formula.

ETA- we saw endless skaters as it was still putting 4 or 5 jump elements as all of their first elements in a row even when the (unlimited) bonus option was there. We saw skaters doing difficult elements 10 seconds before the bonus. Yet everyone was going to jump on the 'all past the halfway point' strategy as if it was that easy? Please :lol:
:eek: That’s second time I am agreeing with you in a relatively short period of several months. What’s going on here!

Saying that, I do believe lots of Russians would try to repeat that. The same way as when Sakhanovich and Medvedeva started doing all those Tanos, within a year or two most Russian ladies could do them too! The competition within Russian ladies is so brutal that as soon as one has some edge, they all want to get the same too. I am not saying that putting jumps at the end is easy and that anyone can do it, but the season or two Zagitova was doing it, she wasn’t the only one. I think Panenkova was doing it too.
 
:eek: That’s second time I am agreeing with you in a relatively short period of several months. What’s going on here!

Saying that, I do believe lots of Russians would try to repeat that. The same way as when Sakhanovich and Medvedeva started doing all those Tanos, within a year or two most Russian ladies could do them too! The competition within Russian ladies is so brutal that as soon as one has some edge, they all want to get the same too. I am not saying that putting jumps at the end is easy and that anyone can do it, but the season or two Zagitova was doing it, she wasn’t the only one. I think Panenkova was doing it too.
But therein lies the problem for some people, if I had to guess: Eteri or other Russian coaches that are producing all these wonderful skaters will teach them from a young age how to get through a program with 6 out of 7 or all 7 jumping passes later, and that'll be unfair because the rest of the world can't catch up or match it. ?‍♂️ Well of course now it doesn't matter because of the rule change.

Along the same lines, I hope the quad is introduced as a valid element in the ladies' SPs from 2023 on.

ETA- the 4 jumps in a row, spin, footwork, 3 more jumps in a row, choreo seq, 2 spins layout should be what people are more bothered by! Not all music matches that phrasing, no matter how 'well-balanced' it apparently is.
 
I 100% did not agree with the rule getting rid of incentive to backload. It is a HUGE risk and it should be rewarded accordingly. If the program sucks as a result, then the PCS should reflect such.
The problem is that the judges can't/won't apply PCS properly, and it gets worse with each passing year.

We saw Zagitova melt down in spectacular fashion a month after the Olympics, and there was no way to catch up or get the program back once the mistakes started.
Zagitova's PCS for her 2018 Worlds LP was:

8.96
8.79
8.32
8.89
8.71


Absolute joke.
 
But therein lies the problem for some people, if I had to guess: Eteri or other Russian coaches that are producing all these wonderful skaters will teach them from a young age how to get through a program with 6 out of 7 or all 7 jumping passes later, and that'll be unfair because the rest of the world can't catch up or match it. ?‍♂️ Well of course now it doesn't matter because of the rule change.

Along the same lines, I hope the quad is introduced as a valid element in the ladies' SPs from 2023 on.
Maybe. I wouldn’t be surprised if certain countries who are currently without a decent lady, would be pushing for the opposite- for example limiting numbers of quads in the FS, because it is so unfair that someone can jumps four or five quads and someone else can’t. Why not try to make the field more equal. I was hoping that as USA had Liu and Japan also had several ladies with the harder jumps, they will push for it. Now that Liu lost her quads, I wouldn’t be surprised if USA and Canada were blocking it to give their ladies a chance.
 
The problem is that the judges can't/won't apply PCS properly, and it gets worse with each passing year.


Zagitova's PCS for her 2018 Worlds LP was:

8.96
8.79
8.32
8.89
8.71


Absolute joke.
I'm not in disagreement over the judging problems over PCS - I've complained about that since the inception of IJS and find 2005-2010 COP competitions almost intolerable to watch from a serious point of view because everyone was clumped together. But then they opened the flood gates so that top skaters are somewhat distanced from the rest of the field - sometimes undeservedly so. But realistically, the same tended to happen with 6.0. The second mark was often the one that put the skater where the judge ultimately wanted them. The problem in my mind is still that there's too much to watch to judge PCS 100% honestly, even from the most experienced judges.

Maybe. I wouldn’t be surprised if certain countries who are currently without a decent lady, would be pushing for the opposite- for example limiting numbers of quads in the FS, because it is so unfair that someone can jumps four or five quads and someone else can’t. Why not try to make the field more equal. I was hoping that as USA had Liu and Japan also had several ladies with the harder jumps, they will push for it. Now that Liu lost her quads, I wouldn’t be surprised if USA and Canada were blocking it to give their ladies a chance.
But the sport should be pushed forward IMO and holding the ladies back gives them no incentive to try to distance themselves with risky elements that only few can do. The spiral sequence was removed as an SP element because ladies were figuring out how to all do the same pattern and get their level 4's - most of them had no trouble achieving it. Taking away a bonus because one maybe two skaters caught on to a tactic (and remember I think Medvedeva's first LP that season was 1+6, right?) is harsh and targeted IMO.
 
ETA- the 4 jumps in a row, spin, footwork, 3 more jumps in a row, choreo seq, 2 spins layout should be what people are more bothered by! Not all music matches that phrasing, no matter how 'well-balanced' it apparently is.
I completely agree with this. The rule limiting the jump bonus really has made program construction worse. I’ve been calling it the 4+3 formula. Everything else just fits around it so the last 3 jumps occur soon after the 2 min mark. Like any constraint, this is limiting practical options.
 
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva has a new SP to 'Lovely' by Billie Eilish and Khalid, will debut it at Channel 1 Cup in few hours
 
The throwaway nature of pre-pubescent champions being replaced by the next rising star, means fans will barely get to know a skater and become attached to their technical development and creative journey. Since it is rare these days for any of them to last an entire quadrennial, in a year's time there could be a complete unknown waiting in the wings to grab gold in Beijing.
 
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The throwaway nature of pre-pubescent champions being replaced by the next rising star, means fans will barely get to know a skater and become attached to their technical development and creative journey. Since is rare these days for any of them to last an entire quadrennial, in a year's time there could be a complete unknown waiting in the wings to grab gold in Beijing.
There's just too much talent and depth among the Russian girls and ladies. A late teen and early 20 Russian ladies would compete longer but they get beaten out by younger more talented and hungrier skaters. The United States Canada Japan Korea and so on do not have this problem in any discipline let alone the ladies. I mean at 1 point the United States had Michelle Tara Sarah and Sasha on the way up. That was great but the cupboard was bare behind them. What the Russians and in particular TT are doing is incredible especially the last 10 years. The machine keep rolling and the skaters are fantastic and very different in many cases.


I don't think alina has the competitive spirit to compete anymore but Evgeniaa does and I hope she gets a couple smaller events next season.
Liza is still skating at 24. Leonova made it to 30 before retiring last year.. I say they should keep going if they are not in too much pain.

I consider the Russians to have like a 4 tier system among the ladies you have your 1st tier of for ladies than the 2nd tier than the 3rd tier and the 4th tier of for each that 16. Thats deep and that's talented.

I want Gubanova and Konstantinovna to keep skating and it doesn't matter to me if they are competitive or not. They're 2 of the most beautiful skaters I have seen in recent years.
Sofia Samodudova won Europeans 2 years ago and has basically disappeared. She's a beautiful skater too and only 18. What is she to do? My gasses continue skating for years and years.
 
This was the best fan cam video I could find of Valieva at the team event today. She was truly spectacular and landed the best triple axel I have ever seen from her even among practice videos. I hope her team reconsiders and keeps this SP for the Olympics too. There have been so few international events this year, actually none for juniors, that I don't think the judges would have any fatigue with either of her programs.
 
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