Kostornaia leaves Tutberidze

[bladesofgorey]

I think the move for Trusova was good because she's all about the quad. I think this move was all about I like Kostornaia's skating a lot, but she's a real drama queen and cries a lot (all you have to do is watch her practices). She takes a lot of energy to coach. And, she totally missed out on all the endorsements the other senior Sambo-70 skaters got. She wasn't offered any. Now, she'll cut a deal to skate in Plushenko's shows.

We are talking about a CHILD here. If a child is upset a lot and crying often under the pressure of their environment that doesn't make them a drama queen, that makes them a young person in an environment that's at the best not good for them, not nurturing, and at the worst actively toxic/harmful.

 

[starrynight]

that makes them a young person in an environment that's at the best not good for them, not nurturing, and at the worst actively toxic/harmful.

Yes. Given the global investigations underway into this exact thing in gymnastics, I think it's time we all saw a lot of this for precisely what it is.

We are actually talking about a young girl who is talented enough to be European champion and is clever enough to potentially have the opportunity to study medicine at university being so upset at training it makes her cry regularly.

 

[Bigbird]

Yes. Given the global investigations underway into this exact thing in gymnastics, I think it's time we all saw a lot of this for precisely what it is.

We are actually talking about a young girl who is talented enough to be European champion and is clever enough to study medicine at university being so upset at training it makes her cry regularly.

I repeat Lipnitskaya, Medvedeva, Trusova, Zhulina and now Kostornaia represent a telling trend that cannot be denied. Eteri's handling of the situation reflects poorly on her. And the harsh criticism being meted out to Kostornaia by other athletes suggests to me that these toxic situations are almost accepted as the norm in some circles. The one who steps away or dares to push back apparently being labelled a criminal. This sport can be beautiful but more and more I'm beginning to see the ugly underside more clearly.

 

[Immortelle]

How exactly does this work?

I’m curious too. Do they have managers as other sportspeople do overseas?

 

[Ananas Astra]

Let's just see how it's gonna work out.
I loved Plushenko as a skater and I would be nothing but THRILLED to see him finally have some success as a coach.
I also value Tutberidze as a coach, so...this is going to be fun.
I'd bet Tarasova is already pissed she cannot participate in this.

 

[dinakt]

And, she wants money like Anna, Sasha and Alina got.

And well she should. She is the most complete, beautiful balletic/athetic package of all of them, and yet her time flows away and she has no endorsements. I hope she gets them now. If Alena is sincere in articulating that it's two more years of skating and then medical school, then now, when she is so good, is the time to get endorsements.

 

[mjb52]

I just wish it was someone other than Plush. He seemed like a good fit for Trusova and the whole thing made sense in a weird way but for Kostornaia he seems like a weird choice. I know the assumption is that she is going to work with Rozanov but Plush is the public face and while I rooted for him as a skater and find his whole schtick interesting in a weird way, it's so not what Kostornaia has become so highly esteemed for.

I thought in general the Tutberidze team handled the Trusova departure ok (other than that choreographer) so I wonder if their response is so dramatic this time b/c of some of that bottled up in addition to this. The last two months have been like nine million years so maybe I'm forgetting things though. I do think they should take this as a wake-up call; if you keep losing your top students in dramatic circumstances something about your set-up must not be working as well as you thought.

 

[MacMadame]

But then wait for 2 months, get the new programs, behave like a brat and then tell the coaching team: "I'm done with you."
This is not nice. At all.

There is also no evidence that this is what happened. It also makes no sense.

It makes more sense that she went to the training camp, got programs she hated, realized the whole year would be like this, and contacted Plushy's team. Contacting them after training camp and after getting programs makes way more sense than arranging this in May and then sitting around for 2 months being miserable.

 

[Bellanca]

The go-to coach of the moment trend, in this case, Eteri, starts to fade away, eventually. The skaters realize a harmonious coach/skater relationship, and a comfortable training environment is vital. Still, at the same time, the skater is the one that charts their course and ultimately decides if they are successful or not. I am feeling pretty positive about this move because Alena is very independent, a crucial characteristic that should serve her well as she moves forward.

 

[hanca]

The go-to coach of the moment trend, in this case, Eteri, starts to fade away, eventually. The skaters realize a harmonious coach/skater relationship, and a comfortable training environment is vital. Still, at the same time, the skater is the one that charts their course and ultimately decides if they are successful or not. I am feeling pretty positive about this move because Alena is very independent, a crucial characteristic that should serve her well as she moves forward.

I think it is just your wishful thinking. Tutberidze knows how to make consistent skaters who wins and when they don’t, she gets rid of them. She may arrange the skater to leave to go to ice dance or pairs, or she may persuade them that they don’t have a future in elite figure skating and they retire. This high turnover means that she works only with those who get the results and therefore she will always be successful. Why should students stop coming to her? If you were a skater and someone gave you choice, whether you want to have one or two successful seasons and get medals at europeans and worlds and then you will struggle (and possibly retire young), or whether you want long career and have very low to none chance of Europeans/worlds medals (because someone else will go to Tutberidze and will get the medals instead of you), what would you choose? I would go for the medals, then retire and have time to get education.

 

[starrynight]

Coaching teams don't fade away on their own. Rather another coaching team rises up instead.

Sort of like how there was that handover between Marina Zoueva and Gadbois.

 

[hanca]

Coaching teams don't fade away on their own. Rather another coaching team rises up instead.

Sort of like how there was that handover between Marina Zoueva and Gadbois.

Yes, but you can’t compare ice dance and singles. In ice dance, the GOE and PCS is so much ‘flexible’ that it is pretty easy to arrange that some coaching team is ‘the best thing ever’ and its skaters are ‘it’. Whereas in singles there is not as much space for manipulating the marks (relatively speaking, in comparison to ice dance), because in singles the skaters actually have to land the jumps. So the handover happens only if the previous most successful coaching team slip with their standards.

 

[starrynight]

So the handover happens only if the previous most successful coaching team slip with their standards.

Actually it would be quite interesting to compare the change overs in dominance.

Of course, a supply of talent is an important factor as well. And that is often a big part of it.

 

[Bellanca]

^^^^ It's not wishful thinking, just an observation over the years.

I actually think Alena and Plushy will get along quite nicely. I can see their personalities clicking. If Kos is good with it, so am I.

ETA: Plushy is not a conventional/predictable coach or coaching choice, which makes this move even more intriguing.

 

[hanca]

Actually it would be quite interesting to compare the change overs in dominance.

Of course, a supply of talent is an important factor as well. And that is often a big part of it.

Actually, I don’t think it would be as easy to compare it, because I don’t remember when the last time any coaching team had this level of dominance, at least not in singles. In Russian ladies, within Russia Tutberidze had top three in senior ladies at the Russian senior nationals, top three plus fifth and sixth in junior nationals and also the novice champion. If we look at it internationally, Tutberidze had top three and fifth at GPF in senior ladies, top three at Europeans, first and fifth at JGPF and 1st, 2nd and 4th at junior world in junior ladies. So if you are talking about handovers of dominance, whom did she take over from? When was it last time someone managed all that within one season?

 

[skatingguy]

What is the problematic meaning? I dont get it (maybe you have to be a native speaker?)

I'm a native speaker, and I had never heard that word before.

 

[Spun Silver]

Does anyone know whether Alina still plans to return to competition this season, such as it is? I follow her on Instagram and haven't noticed any training pix, but I don't watch stories so I may have missed something.

 

[DobrinFan]

Does anyone know whether Alina still plans to return to competition this season, such as it is? I follow her on Instagram and haven't noticed any training pix, but I don't watch stories so I may have missed something.

No clue about her return but as of now, she's sick and in isolation at home. She had left camp and was golfing not to long ago.

"Alina got sick and has to be isolated." Tutberidze's team told why Zagitova is not in the general photo of the group in Novogorsk

Eteri Tutberidze's team on Instagram explained the reason for the absence of Olympic champion Alina Zagitova in a group photo at the base in Novogorsk during training camps.

Earlier, the account of the coaching staff of Tutberidze said that the training camp in Novogorsk was completed and the programs were delivered to all athletes. Alina Zagitova was not in the photo posted on the account.

"It's really uncomfortable, but where is Alina?" - asked a question in the comments.

“Alina got sick and had to be isolated. Everything is all right, (she) is at home, ”they replied on Instagram.

«Алина приболела и вынуждена находиться в изоляции». Команда Тутберидзе рассказала, почему Загитовой нет на общем фото группы в Новогорске

Этери Тутберидзе рассказала, что Алина Загитова находится в изоляции и не тренируется

m.sports.ru

 

[Willin]

How exactly does this work?

I’m curious too. Do they have managers as other sportspeople do overseas?

To be honest I’m not entirely sure how it works. My general understanding of the situation is that the head coach (in this case, Eteri) acts both as coach as manager. For instance, prize money is not given to the skater directly, it goes to the coach who then pays a portion to the skater. One of the Russian users here will have to expand further.

 

[TallyT]

I think it is just your wishful thinking. Tutberidze knows how to make consistent skaters who wins and when they don’t, she gets rid of them. She may arrange the skater to leave to go to ice dance or pairs, or she may persuade them that they don’t have a future in elite figure skating and they retire. This high turnover means that she works only with those who get the results and therefore she will always be successful.

However, if the skaters have started to leave her before they start to fade - if they take her training and then go somewhere else and beat out her remaining skaters - she may have a problem on her hands. I'm not saying that will happen, but Trusova and Kostornaia are now direct competition for her remaining two super seniors, and if Zagitova chooses not to return she will have one, who is capable of taking the major international golds but hasn't as yet.

And in your first sentence, you may have crystallised the problem. She has always gotten rid of them when they are no longer... 'cost-effective', shall we say? Not a great way to inspire the remaining ones with any real loyalty, so now they are starting to get the idea that they can just as well get rid... of her.

 

[DobrinFan]

To be honest I’m not entirely sure how it works. My general understanding of the situation is that the head coach (in this case, Eteri) acts both as coach as manager. For instance, prize money is not given to the skater directly, it goes to the coach who then pays a portion to the skater. One of the Russian users here will have to expand further.

There's and article with Forbes where Betina Popova discusses the finances of skaters on and off the national team. There is a section about prize money/endorsements. She didn't say who gets the money initially (I assumed the federation since I read somewhere they take their cut plus a little to pay taxes to Russian IRS) but says what percentage everyone gets (fed, coach, taxes). Taxes from the country in which the earnings are earned comes out first (naturally). I assume the federation gives what's left of any winnings/endorsements to the athletes.

Now I learned from the Russian boards that Buianova who is a head coach has administration duties were she cuts all the paychecks because athletes get paid to be athletes (Lol). Whether that includes prize money, etc. IDK.

Anyway, here's the Forbes article if anyone is interested in

Яндекс

Найдётся всё

www.forbes.ru

ETA: well now that I think about, they (Rus forums) say money doesn't go directly from the Federation to the athletes but to the schools so maybe the head coaches do cut the final check.

 

[lala]

So is she putting herself in line for Plushy's shows / tv specials?

Apologies because I know there have been many posts about how $$ works for Eteri's team, but can someone else give me the tl;dr version?

Thanks,

Probably there will be no shows because of the *****. I don't think this is the reason

 

[starrynight]

What is the status of test skates occurring? Will they proceed?

I do wonder if maybe the decision to depart in mid-July (which is late for a coaching change) has a lot to do with it being clear that a grand prix series is unlikely and so there is no harm in forming new programs in Plushenko's group and taking time to settle into the coaching change.

Also, the one skater that fascinates me is Zagitova. So she has not been at the camp because she got sick and had to self-isolate. It seems like she has worked out a mutually beneficial arrangement at Sambo 70. I wonder if this is because with 40% of her earnings going to Eteri and Zagitova already achieving her earning potential (so no point in pushing her), Zagitova can be basically left alone? I guess also, at this tail end of her career, Zagitova really doesn't need a public assassination by Eteri.

 

[TAHbKA]

Pluschenko DID take his students to the camp - to Kislovodsk , not Novogorsk that is 1,600 km from Moscow. And he even rented some RVs and drove himself in order to get the kids there healthy and avoid airports. Am not a big fan of Pluschy (and Yana) but that was a very decent and wise move given current circumstances.

That actually felt like a reason to prove Yana the RV was a smart purchase
Trusova's parents ended up driving her to Kislovodsk, while Konstantinova didn't even get to go to the camp.

Amyway, I see no reason to believe that Aliona (or her parents) planned this coaching change way back in May and it got public only now. What for? To get two masterpieces from Gleikh? To train in Novogorsk just to train? She could have very easily gone to Kislovodsk and have an ice there and not waste her time on choreographing programs she won’t use/doesn’t like under previous coaching team

I think we have to go back in timeline there:
In May the main team and the main team coaches went to Novogorsk, which included Tutberidze team (not Tutberidze herself - she was in the USA with Diana) but not Pluschenko, who by then did not coach anyone from the main team. I.e. even if Kostornaya was considering the switch she would not have the ice nor a certain date getting on the said ice. So going with the team she was part of seemed like the right thing to do.
Once things got back to normal and she could decide on her switch, where 2 weeks ago sounds like a reasonable time frame she became rude, she did not train well, she walked out. BTW, when did Tutberidze herself get on the ice? She came back to Russia and spent 2 weeks quarantining, so perhaps Kostornaya was ok with Dudakov and Gleikhengauze, but not so much with Tutberidze? Was she even working with Dudakov prior or was it always Rozanov and then all of the sudden she had to get used to working with Dudakov and without Tutberidze by her side?

 

[Willin]

@TAHbKA She got back with her skaters mid-June I think?

One wonders if part of the problem was her jumps. The jump coach that got her the 3A (Rozanov), after all, jumped ship for Plushenko.

 

[Frau Muller]

Sambo (martial art) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wasn’t Sambo Putin’s big sport in his youth?

 

[hanca]

However, if the skaters have started to leave her before they start to fade - if they take her training and then go somewhere else and beat out her remaining skaters - she may have a problem on her hands. I'm not saying that will happen, but Trusova and Kostornaia are now direct competition for her remaining two super seniors, and if Zagitova chooses not to return she will have one, who is capable of taking the major international golds but hasn't as yet.

And in your first sentence, you may have crystallised the problem. She has always gotten rid of them when they are no longer... 'cost-effective', shall we say? Not a great way to inspire the remaining ones with any real loyalty, so now they are starting to get the idea that they can just as well get rid... of her.

You are assuming that the skaters who leave her will continue to achieve the same results like with her. It didn’t work that well for Medvedeva, let’s see if this is true about Trusova and Kostornaya.

Look, if skaters are continue approaching Karel Fajfr, even though it is a public knowledge that he sexually abused someone in the past (eleven counts of sexual abuse and two counts of battery), why do you think skaters should stop going to Tutberidze? Relatively speaking, she is harmless.

 

[Frau Muller]

Now I’m wondering if and when Scherbakova may leave Eteri?

Let’s make it three out of three (of last fall’s Super Trio).

 

[rfisher]

She was close to hot Sergei and maybe that way she left.

I suspect it's all about him. He's been the primary force behind the younger skaters. Maybe he wants to advance his career and thinks it will be easier to do at Plushenko's rink. We'll see how that works. Other coaches have looked there and left in a short time. I don't think this is about Tutberidze or Plushenko although both have the ego and name. Plushenko doesn't have any skaters on the national team or funding until Sergei brought Trusova with him. What he has are his shows and the money he makes with his wife. Hot Sergei is the one to watch to see what happens.

 

[barbarafan]

Per Eteri, transfer to Plushenko was decided by Alena in May but she didn't tell TeamEteri about it.

Тутберидзе о переходе Косторной: «Нас она не поставила в известность. А мы поставили ей две программы, впечатлившие бы судей и зрителей»

Тренер по фигурному катанию Этери Тутберидзе рассказала, что чемпионка Европы Алена Косторная не сообщила наставникам о решении перейти в другую группу.

m.sports.ru

Obviously she could not tell Eteri until she was ready to walk out the door as Eteri is vicious and spiteful to those who leave. Alena is right to be classy and make no comment as it serves nothing to lower herself to the level of a shrieking fish wife. I don't see any flowers in their future but you never know.