Ice Talk podcast 2019-20 (season 4)

Sylvia

Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
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https://twitter.com/IceTalkPodcast/status/1179455306180517888
LISTEN: #IceTalk season premiere is ready for you!
@rockerskating
and
@NickMcCarvel
preview the season + you’ll hear from Evgenia Medvedeva and Lilah Fear/Lewis Gibson. SO EXCITING!! ❄?
Apple Podcasts: http://bit.ly/icetalk2
You also can listen to Ice Talk directly from this website:
Oct 2, 2019
Hosts Nick McCarvel and Jackie Wong are joined by two-time Olympic medalist Evgenia Medvedeva, as well as Great Britain's Lilah Fear and Lewis Gibson, as they break down the season so far and look ahead to the rest of the fall.
 
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ITA with Jackie Wong's sentiment re how exhausting the season has been even before it's barely started (what with the Junior GP and pre-season Challenger events). And as Wong also mentions, it's exciting too what with all that's going on and hard to keep up with. I am exhausted as well as excited and anticipatory about some aspects of what's ahead.

What I really hope for to little avail is better figure skating coverage. Something beyond or at least in between the aggressive, ego-driven Darth Vader of TSL and the slick, happy-go-lucky Disney World of Ice Talk. ;) :drama:

Not that I don't enjoy a lot of what Wong and McCarvel offer. It was fun hearing from Fear/Gibson. BTW, Tony Wheeler did a great interview with this cool young ice dance team from Great Britain last season. In this episode, Wong also elicited some nice tidbits from Medvedeva at Autumn Classic.
 
What I really hope for to little avail is better figure skating coverage. Something beyond or at least in between the aggressive, ego-driven Darth Vader of TSL and the slick, happy-go-lucky Disney World of Ice Talk. ;)

I sort of equate Jackie Wong with a statistician and TSL as more commentary. I greatly appreciate all of the info from Jackie, and the timeliness of it, but I don't expect to get any controversial opinions or stimulating conversation from him. On the other hand, I also enjoy the opinions/analysis (including the intended snarkiness and camp) from TSL even if I don't always agree with them. I think both have a place in the sport as long as we keep in mind the intent of both.
 
I sort of equate Jackie Wong with a statistician and TSL as more commentary. I greatly appreciate all of the info from Jackie, and the timeliness of it, but I don't expect to get any controversial opinions or stimulating conversation from him. On the other hand, I also enjoy the opinions/analysis (including the intended snarkiness and camp) from TSL even if I don't always agree with them. I think both have a place in the sport as long as we keep in mind the intent of both.

I'm not talking about whether or not either have a place in the sport. That's a moot point. No coverage is perfect in any case, because it's not a perfect world and humans are full of conundrums and contradictions. I appreciate that DL of TSL has kind of made an attempt to clean up his act as best he can, but he just can't help himself. He's an acquired taste in many respects. And I mean, a lot of times people have to change their diets ya know, or cut back a little on stuff that gives them too much gas, if you get my drift. With TSL, I know when too much is enough, or when to skip some not so healthy morsels. I sometimes agree with TSL's takes, and the platform that was created by Jenny and DL is important. It just leaves a lot to be desired, and snarkiness can be overdone and hurtful.

Jackie Wong is great fun to listen to, and I'm sure he's fun to be around. McCarvel is a nice guy, but nice can grate too when it becomes too superficial. But for what they do and what their intent is, they do a great job. They are presenting summaries and reviews for the most part, along with entertaining interviews and middle-of-the-road commentary designed not to offend.

And so I come full circle back to wishing for something more in-depth, and more historically well-informed that can be connected with what's happening today. As well, something every so often involving provocative panel discussions that can be enlightening and refreshing. That kind of coverage just doesn't exist (probably partly because figure skating is so insular and elitist in its origins). So, what we currently have is what it is and every effort is welcome. I think TSL could improve in any number of ways, but I don't see that happening, as once people reach a certain age, it's hard to do a complete transformation or change one's personality or fix bad habits.

Everybody has free will and I appreciate all who put themselves out there online to share their opinions about the fs scene, including Fran, and the IntheLoop group (also accessible on Youtube), et al.

ETA:
I'd love to meet Jackie Wong, it would be a pure honor. And it'd be fun talking with Nick McCarvel about tennis. :D @Sylvia was so lucky to meet with Ted Barton and his crew recently. She shared some nice pics of their behind-the-scenes set-up for Junior GP coverage. Fran seems like a cool person and an awesome skating fan, and the same for Ted Flett and the other really sweet guy who's been doing skating podcasts for years (I don't recall his name). As far as DL, I'd be a bit afraid of being stabbed in the back. ;)
 
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Next 2 episodes:

Oct. 9, 2019 (Wong's chat with Kevin Aymoz at Autumn Classic begins around the 28 minute mark):


Oct. 16, 2019 (their conversation with Jason Brown starts around the 32 minute mark):
 
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I'm not talking about whether or not either have a place in the sport. That's a moot point. No coverage is perfect in any case, because it's not a perfect world and humans are full of conundrums and contradictions. I appreciate that DL of TSL has kind of made an attempt to clean up his act as best he can, but he just can't help himself. He's an acquired taste in many respects. And I mean, a lot of times people have to change their diets ya know, or cut back a little on stuff that gives them too much gas, if you get my drift. With TSL, I know when too much is enough, or when to skip some not so healthy morsels. I sometimes agree with TSL's takes, and the platform that was created by Jenny and DL is important. It just leaves a lot to be desired, and snarkiness can be overdone and hurtful.

Jackie Wong is great fun to listen to, and I'm sure he's fun to be around. McCarvel is a nice guy, but nice can grate too when it becomes too superficial. But for what they do and what their intent is, they do a great job. They are presenting summaries and reviews for the most part, along with entertaining interviews and middle-of-the-road commentary designed not to offend.

And so I come full circle back to wishing for something more in-depth, and more historically well-informed that can be connected with what's happening today. As well, something every so often involving provocative panel discussions that can be enlightening and refreshing. That kind of coverage just doesn't exist (probably partly because figure skating is so insular and elitist in its origins). So, what we currently have is what it is and every effort is welcome. I think TSL could improve in any number of ways, but I don't see that happening, as once people reach a certain age, it's hard to do a complete transformation or change one's personality or fix bad habits.

Everybody has free will and I appreciate all who put themselves out there online to share their opinions about the fs scene, including Fran, and the IntheLoop group (also accessible on Youtube), et al.

ETA:
I'd love to meet Jackie Wong, it would be a pure honor. And it'd be fun talking with Nick McCarvel about tennis. :D @Sylvia was so lucky to meet with Ted Barton and his crew recently. She shared some nice pics of their behind-the-scenes set-up for Junior GP coverage. Fran seems like a cool person and an awesome skating fan, and the same for Ted Flett and the other really sweet guy who's been doing skating podcasts for years (I don't recall his name). As far as DL, I'd be a bit afraid of being stabbed in the back. ;)


aussieSKATES was fortunate enough to attend the 2017 World Championships as a credentialed member of the media.

Whilst in Helsinki, our journalist on site got to meet Ted Barton and Jackie Wong. Both are as gregarious and humble in person as they are online.

Jackie would have had to be the hardest working reporter we saw at the event. He was at the arena every day from the first practice until lights out. His dedication and attention to detail was inspiring.
 
Oct. 23, 2019 (Jackie's brief chat with Vanessa James starts around the 8 min. mark & his longer chat with Junhwan Cha starts around the 34 min. mark):
 
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Oct. 30, 2019 (audio clip from Hanyu's FS presser about Trusova's quads was tweeted/subtitled here: https://twitter.com/olympicchannel/status/1188493938870706177 ); Nick spoke with Young You for about 5 mins. in Kelowna at the 18 min. mark; Jackie's 10 min. chat with Nathan in Las Vegas starts after the 36 min. mark):
 
Nov. 20, 2019:

Nov. 13, 2019:
 
^^ I can do without the surface hype though. I'd love if they could focus on telling skating fans who enjoy and follow the sport something that we don't already know instead of surface trivialities and status quo think. I understand this particular podcast is set up not to ruffle any feathers. Hanging in to listen through the end of the pairs review, it got better but I'm not so interested in the surface gushing.

Regarding pairs which they covered first, what in the world did Ashley Wagner mean when she said she often finds pairs skating to be 'abrasive and jarring choreographically..." :huh: And then she praises Sui/Han as "starting to give ... shades of Savchenko/Massot..." What does Ash mean by that?? S/H are not like S/M, despite recent suggestions that S/H are trying to adopt some of the musical and movement themes of S/M's Olympic fp.

S/H have their own unique look, style and approach to their skating. S/H have been kicking it for awhile with their bravura elements, and in recent years they've stepped up their game aesthetically under the tutelage of Shen/Zhao and with the ongoing efforts of their long time choreographer, Lori Nichol. What Ash might better have pointed out is that S/H's sp is somewhat of a departure for them stylistically, yet they did a fairly decent job exploring a different genre. Plus, Ash and Ice Talk co-hosts could have also pointed out that this season marks Sui/Han's first return to the GP in three seasons at a transitional time during which several top teams have retired, other veteran teams are currently taking a break, and a number of new young Russian teams are on the rise, whilst Tarasova/Morosov have been struggling.

I disagree with Jackie Wong's suggestion that what marks K&M's progress this season is Michael "becoming more and more of a good pairs partner." I still think Michael has a way to go to be a comparatively good pairs partner. It's true that they've come together far as a team, but Michael is still the weaker link, and compared to other top pairs guys, he's not as strong. Sure Michael has improved every season. It would be a problem if he wasn't improving every season. The difference this season is that K&M have better programs and they didn't have the slow start due to injury that they had last season. Plus, K&M are more confident with the Canadian #1 status, which in fact they may not necessarily hold indefinitely should Luba & Charlie continue building a strong and exciting partnership.

Jackie also said that K&M "should have medaled" at last season's NHK, but came in 4th. It's not that they should have medaled, they hoped to medal... The key thing which Jackie neglected to mention is that it was the Knierims who snatched the bronze medal ahead of K&M at last year's NHK with a strong performance. That led to Canadian fans commiserating about K&M's weak 3-twist, which likely is why they retooled it, and it's looking better. IMO, it's rather significant that the Knierims grabbed the bronze last year, but then failed to even come in fourth this season with some great programs. The tables have turned a bit, and the turning started at the first Challenger event between K&M and the Knerims where K&M won and the Knerims placed second. It seems to me that it's the Knerims' confidence which is lacking and needs to be rebuilt.

I'm not so sure Boi/Koz will necessarily overtake S/H at GPF, as Jackie seems to hint. Yes Sui has to clean up the jump errors, but Boi/Koz are still a young team on the rise, and are only becoming Russia's #1 this season due to T/M having so many problems. Anything can happen in figure skating, but I don't see Sui faltering when push comes to shove. We shall see. S/H carry a lot of badass rep and the judges love them. Boi/Koz may not necessarily get as high marks as S/H on PCS. But at least we should have a more intriguing, closely fought battle than we've had during the entire GP season in pairs!

I disagree with Ash that Tarah & Danny did what they needed to do at NHK. Nope, they could have done better actually. Still, 5th is not bad when 5th or 6th were about what was expected for them in this field. Still, had K/O skated better, 4th place was possible against Efimova/Korovin once the Knierms faltered. K/O did not step through that open door. I do agree with Ash that K/O's fp is not strong enough this season to hold up at Nationals against a stronger Cain-Gribble/LeDuc and Denney/Frazier's boffo fp. Neither has K/O's skating improved very much this season to keep up with the competition.

Ashley W mentions the need for U.S. teams 'building confidence' just as I stated, and I typed that thought before I heard her say that. At least the pairs review got a little better as it went on. However, I would have emphasized how Ash & Timothy got off to a great start this season and how they improved so much over the off-season. That's a fact that shouldn't be given short shrift just because Ash & Timothy didn't live up to the build-up of expectations for Skate America and IDF. I agree with Ice Talk's commentary about the Knierims. Ashley was spot-on in her assessment and how she phrased it. I'm glad Jackie favorably mentions Miura/Kihara.

Maybe I'll listen to the rest later.
 
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Regarding pairs which they covered first, what in the world did Ashley Wagner mean when she said she often finds pairs skating to be 'abrasive and jarring choreographically..."
I would say she means she tends to find the elements not especially integrated into choreography, from the context.

I disagree with Jackie Wong's suggestion that what marks K&M's progress this season is Michael "becoming more and more of a good pairs partner." I still think Michael has a way to go to be a comparatively good pairs partner. It's true that they've come together far as a team, but Michael is still the weaker link, and compared to other top pairs guys, he's not as strong.
Jackie never said that Michael was now as good as Kirsten, he said that he was at a level where the team could skate more consistently.

Jackie also said that K&M "should have medaled" at last season's NHK, but came in 4th. It's not that they should have medaled, they hoped to medal... The key thing which Jackie neglected to mention is that it was the Knierims who snatched the bronze medal ahead of K&M at last year's NHK with a strong performance. That led to Canadian fans commiserating about K&M's weak 3-twist, which likely is why they retooled it, and it's looking better. IMO, it's rather significant that the Knierims grabbed the bronze last year, but then failed to even come in fourth this season with some great programs. The tables have turned a bit, and the turning started at the first Challenger event between K&M and the Knerims where K&M won and the Knerims placed second.
I don't see how that's key. There was nothing about the NHK 2018 performance that specifically triggered a debate about MT/M's twist; it was a known fact that the twist was their weakest element, from the beginning. NHK 2018 was just a messy event for them. They then had two really good events at Nationals and Four Continents, then a comparatively disappointing Worlds.

For the Knierims NHK 2018 wasn't even that great a performance, and then more injuries happened, they switched coaches, they disintegrated at Nationals, and then have been trying to shake things up. Both teams were on very different trajectories long before Nebelhorn.
 
Thanks for your take @Colonel Green. That somewhat makes sense what Ashley said then, except I would exclude the top, best pairs skaters and best pairs programs from such a description.

You misunderstand my critique of what Jackie said about Michael. Of course he didn't say Michael is as good as Kirsten, which is not the point. Jackie was saying Michael has become more and more of a good pairs partner. I think Michael supports Kirsten in their mutual goals, but comparative to many other male pairs partners, Michael still has a way to go. Kirsten is the solid rock with this team, and Michael is a nice guy who tries hard and manages to hold his own.

My view is that Kirsten & Michael have come together very well as a team, especially with all the flack they received from Canadian fans in the beginning. Still, Michael needs more work to be a steadier pairs partner. He still seems shaky with the lifts, and I'm always amazed he doesn't drop Kirsten (he did once at Canadian Nationals, but they recovered beautifully). Their bond and determination is what makes their partnership shine.

Under Julie Marcotte's choreographic wing, I have found K&M enjoyable to watch. Last season, their programs weren't that memorable or exciting, but the season before they'd taken a huge step forward in their partnership with their fp (used for two seasons). Julie pulled from some of that program's choreo to create this season's fp which works extremely well, as does the sp this season.

I have a good memory. As soon as K&M lost to the Knierims at NHK last season, whining about K&M's twist in comparison to the Knierims' twist ensued in the Canadian pairs thread. In fact, a number of Canadian fans questioned why Canadian pairs teams didn't have better twists (which frankly I didn't know was such a serious concern) :drama:

What I was pointing out as being of key significance is how the tables turned this season with K&M coming out on top vs the Knerims right off the bat, which built to K&M being in solid podium contention by NHK. Since Jackie mentioned last season's NHK and K&M just missing out on the podium, he may as well have pointed out the notable turnaround vs the Knierims. JMO.

Eh, you can be dismissive of the Knierims if you choose. They had very good programs last season, and they did perform very well to edge out K&M at last season's NHK. Alexa & Chris were dealing with a very difficult transition after taking a huge risk that ultimately didn't work out long term, but it was a risk they did gain and grow from. It's possible that taking such a risk to move to Germany and then having to completely regroup while still competing throughout the season, has crippled their confidence in ways they haven't yet come to grips with. This, particularly after they'd already come back from Alexa's life-threatening illness, but weren't fully back all the way in terms of confidence and momentum before they took the huge leap to move to Germany to train with Aljona. Still, I think the risk was worth it for them, so hopefully they can accept the good from that experience and be at peace to move forward with more confidence.

K&M struggled a bit last season becoming accustomed to being Canada's #1 pairs team, and they also had a slow start due to Kirsten recovering from injury. K&M's programs were okay, but not memorable last season, so they are doing very well with better crafted programs this season. The Knierims clearly are not skating with confidence, but on paper, they have overall better pop on their lifts, throws and twist than K&M. Alas, the Knierims' glaring weakness has been their jumps, which they are apparently retooling under Raf. The miscues by the Knierims in their fp at NHK were unforgivable and inexcusable.

I'm not so sure about your reference to trajectory comparisons. Every team is necessarily different in their paths and in their struggles in any case. As well, ice is slippery and momentum can change on a dime. For most pairs teams, a career in figure skating can be a veritable roller coaster. Stay tuned. :watch:
 
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Also, in terms of consistency, I think Michael & Kirsten have generally always been somewhat consistent on the jumps. Michael has experienced some miscues on the GP this season, but in general, they tend to be fairly reliable on sbs jumps, which is manna for ISU judges. Kirsten is always solid as a rock on the throws. She gets distance on the throws, not a lot of height, but she makes it work. It's rare for Kirsten to fall, even though it has happened on occasion, likely when she was not as fit, e.g., when she didn't have as much training time before the start of last season.

As partners, K&M seemingly struggled in the beginning to find out who they are as a team, and to overcome the negativity from some fans. Plus Michael has noticeably struggled a bit with some of the partnering, but he seems to have always worked diligently with patience and confidence, and he's improved. Their fortuitous switch to Gauthier/Marcotte when it happened was crucial to building their career. And now they seem comfortable with the move to Oakville to train with Bruno Marcotte and Meagan Duhamel.

ETA:
To demonstrate the importance of luck in figure skating, Julianne Seguin's bad luck with the concussion, paved the way for M-T/M's good luck with going to Worlds twice in Seguin/Bilodeau's stead. That was invaluable for Kirsten/Michael getting in front of ISU judges and taking advantage of those early opportunities to build some rep and experience on the world stage. The plot thickens with Bilodeau now paired with Luba, who was formerly paired with Dylan, who was KMT's former partner with whom they reached as high as 4th at Worlds, but lost out on the battle for Canadian pairs dominance to the now legendary Duhamel/Radford.
 
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