Coughlin's Former Pairs Partner Alleges He Abused Her

[mag]

i actually feel bullied for no good reason. Get a life. I asked very legitimate questions. I do need to know what has happened to make my conclusion.

A conclusion about what? What would knowing the detail let you conclude?

 

[VGThuy]

i actually feel bullied for no good reason. Get a life. I asked very legitimate questions. I do need to know what has happened to make my conclusion.

I think people are reacting because you already decided to make certain negative conclusions about her with your previous posts without knowing details.

 

[coppertop1]

I foresee her getting a warning. These questions sound like sealioning.

 

[IceAlisa]

I have to say, I am incredibly leery of the line of thinking that teenage guys don't know any better and on the other side that girls mature faster than guys. I was sexually abused at 11 by a 16-year-old who absolutely knew what he was doing. I had no idea what was going on. I was incredibly naive, sheltered, and shy as a teenager, and I wasn't even a skater then. There are plenty of older guys and men who look for younger women to manipulate. I'm not saying that is what happened here.

As others have said, the problem was not just age but the enormous power differential between them. John being the male partner, older, stronger, likely more experienced, etc.

I think the power differential was magnified by the fact that it's hard for female skaters to find male pairs partners. Also, IMO it's best to avoid any kind of unprofessional involvement when any power differential exists.

Having said that, I don't see the point of alienating posters who are asking questions and are not in line with the general opinion. Labeling someone and shutting them down isn't the best way to change their mind. And changing people's minds about these situations is key to preventing them

 

[attyfan]

A conclusion about what? What would knowing the detail let you conclude?

Knowing the details would really be important if criminal prosecution is an issue -- because the details likely determine what specific statutes may have been violated. (For example, in California, one statute prohibits a broader category of actions, but applies only if the victim is under 14; another statute prohibits specific misconduct when the victim is 14 or 15).

However, the misconduct (i.e., violation of certain rules or professional standards -- or something more akin to sexual harassment) does not necessarily have to violate criminal statutes.

 

[Lara111]

I think people are reacting because you already decided to make certain negative conclusions about her with your previous posts without knowing details.

no its you decided to make certain conclusions I have not concluded on anything at all. I do not think asking questions mean certain conclusions have been reached.

 

[FSfan107]

I think the power differential was magnified by the fact that it's hard for female skaters to find male pairs partners. Also, IMO it's best to avoid any kind of unprofessional involvement when any power differential exists.

Having said that, I don't see the point of alienating posters who are asking questions and are not in line with the general opinion. Labeling someone and shutting them down isn't the best way to change their mind. And changing people's minds about these situations is key to preventing them

I wasn't trying to shut people down.

 

[VGThuy]

no its you decided to make certain conclusions I have not concluded on anything at all. I do not think asking questions mean certain conclusions have been reached.

Conclusion 1:

What is not clear to me is why she waited for so long and why she did not leave the abusive partner. I also did not get what exactly he did to abuse her. From my experience, some girls with the help of their mothers are extremely unreasonable and blame the partner for mere fact he exists.

Conclusion 2:

I am glad the lady spoke out. Finally people are learning details, and at least now we know that it was reasonable to suspect JC of at least a "statutory rape".

The "abuse" term is still an issue for me. I would like to hear more specifics; did he "force her physically", or just actively and persuasively "seduced her" into relationship?. To me there is a difference, especially since their partnership lasted 2 years.. and because of this mention in the Kansas City article, i too find it interesting....

I also need to hear specifics before I am on one or the other side. If he lived with her family how would not family know anything about the abuse that was going on for years? Just does not make sense. Figure skating parents are very involved in their kids lives most of the time.

Those lines betray some prejudicial feelings you have and which position you're already starting from, which is a position of being skeptical of her account and believing that she misconstrued the relationship as abuse when you think the bigger possibility is that she's wrongfully painting a consensual relationship between them as abusive, and that the circumstances surrounding the relationship make it difficult for you to believe anything bad happened because of your past experience with bad skating mothers blaming male pairs partners, that he lived in her parents house, oh and that all of this will result in a mass exodus of male figure skaters in the U.S and with a smiley face which I'm not quite sure what you meant to imply with that but it comes off badly.

Exactly. I think these may go even further and drive boys out of US

This goes back to my point about taking sexual assault survivors accusations seriously and not putting more doubt into their story when you're not in a position to question them nor are you in any position to investigate the way most people would react if someone said John Coughlin committed some other non-sexual crime.

 

[mag]

Knowing the details would really be important if criminal prosecution is an issue -- because the details likely determine what specific statutes may have been violated. (For example, in California, one statute prohibits a broader category of actions, but applies only if the victim is under 14; another statute prohibits specific misconduct when the victim is 14 or 15).

However, the misconduct (i.e., violation of certain rules or professional standards -- or something more akin to sexual harassment) does not necessarily have to violate criminal statutes.

Except this isn’t a criminal prosecution and we are on a figure skating message board. The only reasons I can come up with for wanting details would be either because one is interested in salacious details just cause, or so that one can then come up with all kinds of reasons why what happened isn’t really abuse. Neither seem like a good reason to me.

 

[Mayra]

A conclusion about what? What would knowing the detail let you conclude?

Knowing details clears nothing up, and instead forces the victims to relive their trauma over and over again at the behest of the peanut gallery who can't make up their mind on what's real, truthful and what isn't. It isn't our call to make.

Will knowing the details make the abuse more real to them? Or will it give them the go ahead to dismiss claims because it doesn't fit their own narrative on the realities of skating life and abuse?

John is unfortunately no longer with us to defend his position and his truth. Bridget however is, and she has chosen to speak out against a very popular figure in the sport. I hope she has the support she needs from family, and friends because what she has done is not easy by any stretch of the imagination regardless of where your truth lies. JMO

 

[attyfan]

Except this isn’t a criminal prosecution and we are on a figure skating message board. The only reasons I can come up with for wanting details would be either because one is interested in salacious details just cause, or so that one can then come up with all kinds of reasons why what happened isn’t really abuse. Neither seem like a good reason to me.

I agree that no one on this message board needs to know the details. The reason why I posted the importance in criminal cases is not only informational, but to make it clear that the victims are not "hiding" anything -- if the matter was reported to law enforcement (and IIRC, SafeSport indicated that at least one charge was so reported) then the victim would already have disclosed the details to people who need to know.

 

[canbelto]

I agree that it's absolutely Bridget's right to keep the details private. I do however feel that if she does want to share the details it could help many people who are being abused but don't know it. For instance when I heard girl after girl saying how Larry Nassar would dry their tears, bring them their favorite snacks, and assure them that they were fit to go to another Karolyi camp session, it increased my understanding of how subtle grooming can be. And maybe somewhere out there it helped someone who didn't have the confidence to stand up to manipulative grooming behaviors.

 

[MacMadame]

But skaters who haven't commented on social media because they believe there are other, better, or more effective ways to do so - they're not wrong.

We're talking about skaters who have already commented.

Saying John is a great guy on public forum when he killed himself and then <crickets> when Bridget comes forward paints a picture and it's not a pretty one.

Which makes it even more absurd that commentators emphasize "they're a couple off the ice" so strongly for the pairs that *are* couples.

I think part of this is a "see, all guys in figure skating aren't gay" response. For myself: it's annoying.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

We're talking about skaters who have already commented.

I misunderstood your position, then. My apologies. There are some vocal people online who aren't making that distinction.

 

[PairSkater12345]

<strong><span>What do wolves eat?</span></strong><span><br><br><strong>Wolves</strong>&nbsp;are carnivores (meat eaters) but they will eat other foods as well. Their diet ranges from big game, such as elk and moose, to earthworms, berries and grasshoppers.<br><br>To avoid using too much energy catching their food, wolves prey on weaker members of a herd, such as old, young or sick animals. In summer, when the herds migrate, wolves eat mice, birds and even fish.</span>

 

[misskarne]

I misunderstood your position, then. My apologies. There are some vocal people online who aren't making that distinction.

No. I remember well when the "trash skaters list" came out. Included alongside people who were vociferous in their support for Coughlin were people who just posted a black screen, or who donated a couple of dollars to Coughlin's funeral fund (before the name of it was changed to pay for his legal fees). There was no distinction made between, say, the actions of Joshua Farris (who donated a couple of dollars to Coughlin's funeral fund before the name was changed to pay for his legal fees but otherwise said nothing) and the actions of Sappenfield.

 

[canbelto]

For those interested in Radka Kovanikova and Rene Novotny, here is an interview with her in which she discusses the breakup. It sounded quite bitter:
https://www.ahaonline.cz/clanek/zha...nem-uz-jsem-vedle-nej-nemohla-ani-dychat.html

It also sounds like she was very young when they got married, and over time they wanted different things. She wanted a family, he didn't.

Still, the break came and you ended your career?
"We lived for five years in America, where we had a really good career, but you have to know when to quit, which is a bit of a guy's pain that doesn't know and can't guess. I felt it clearly, but René saw it differently, had other ideas and other visions. We didn't find a common language. I suddenly started to reject all the offers. Then we lived side by side for a year, but it was no longer a married life. ”

What happened then?
“I had to go to a psychologist at René's request. He tried to push me into counseling, what to do with me. According to him, I was suddenly not allowed to think differently, I should have had the same ideas as ten years ago. A specialist came to the fact that I had grown from a girl to a mature woman and that one can change and have a different view of the world. Suddenly there was a big hole between us. ”

 

[JamieElena]

No. I remember well when the "trash skaters list" came out. Included alongside people who were vociferous in their support for Coughlin were people who just posted a black screen, or who donated a couple of dollars to Coughlin's funeral fund (before the name of it was changed to pay for his legal fees). There was no distinction made between, say, the actions of Joshua Farris (who donated a couple of dollars to Coughlin's funeral fund before the name was changed to pay for his legal fees but otherwise said nothing) and the actions of Sappenfield.

And this is still the case - the trash list does not distinguish that at all and those associated with the list claim there isn't an easy way to tease it out. Further, they don't think it's right to even remove just that portion from the trash list.

 

[arakwafan2006]

Um, do you know how hard it is for female pairs skaters to find partners?

Wait... are you saying she should stay and get abused ... or

 

[bellezza_fiore]

Your framing this as "the ultimate romantic idea" shows why this is a problem. It sets that kind of relationship up as a norm and something that everyone should strive to achieve: if you're not part of a boy-girl couple, something is wrong with you, and when that happens to you, all your other problems will go away. Yes, I would like to see that idea "put to death".

There is nothing wrong with two people being in love. What's wrong is promoting that as the only way for men and women to have relationships with each other.

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, however, there are coaches who encourage their skaters to have sex with their partners. Those coaches believe that would help their pairs skaters to be able to show "romance" and "intimacy" on the ice. Yes, it is crazy and sickening. Many skaters, elite skaters especially, and their parents know what's going on at a certain ice rink. Like other posters have said, it's a very, very small world, and words travel lightning fast!

 

[Prancer]

<strong><span>What do wolves eat?</span></strong><span><br><br><strong>Wolves</strong>&nbsp;are carnivores (meat eaters) but they will eat other foods as well. Their diet ranges from big game, such as elk and moose, to earthworms, berries and grasshoppers.<br><br>To avoid using too much energy catching their food, wolves prey on weaker members of a herd, such as old, young or sick animals. In summer, when the herds migrate, wolves eat mice, birds and even fish.</span>

Are you referring to sexual abusers or posters on this forum?

 

[Johnny_Fever]

Could someone remind me whom the pre-suicide allegations came from? Men or women? Do we know?

 

[Prancer]

Could someone remind me whom the pre-suicide allegations came from? Men or women? Do we know?

Does it really matter?

If it does, I am sure a quick Google of USA Today articles will refresh your memory.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

Does it really matter?

If it does, I am sure a quick Google of USA Today articles will refresh your memory.

My Google searches only reveal the most current information, this latest round of allegations from women.

It matters. People aren't that likely to change orientations, and I seem to recall that the first round of allegations came from guys.

 

[Prancer]

My Google searches only reveal the most current information, this latest round of allegations from women.

It matters. People aren't that likely to change orientations, and I seem to recall that the first allegations came from guys.

Perhaps you are confused because Coughlin's family alleged that the first complaint came from a male rival of John's, but the alleged rival didn't complain on his own behalf. Otherwise, all of the complaints I am aware of have been about females.

Articles on the subject, which I found with no trouble at all:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/01/30/police-say-figure-skater-john-coughlin-died-by-hanging/2727268002/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...y-blamed-suicide-false-accusation/3300924002/

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...truth-behind-alleged-sexual-abuse/3313035002/

 

[Johnny_Fever]

It looks like you can't find it either. I see no reference to gender in any of those articles, but maybe it was never mentioned.

 

[misskarne]

It looks like you can't find it either. I see no reference to gender in any of those articles, but maybe it was never mentioned.

There a particular reason you so desperately want it to be guys?

 

[Prancer]

It looks like you can't find it either. I see no reference to gender in any of those articles, but maybe it was never mentioned.

One example from one of the articles:

Attorney John Manly, who represents more than 200 victims in the Larry Nassar gymnastics sexual abuse case, told USA TODAY Sports Friday afternoon that he also represents three women who were minors when the late figure skater John Coughlin allegedly sexually abused them.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

There a particular reason you so desperately want it to be guys?

Because it discredits this latest round of allegations. As usual you guys are completely missing the boat.

 

[Johnny_Fever]

One example from one of the articles:

Attorney John Manly, who represents more than 200 victims in the Larry Nassar gymnastics sexual abuse case, told USA TODAY Sports Friday afternoon that he also represents three women who were minors when the late figure skater John Coughlin allegedly sexually abused them.

Right. That's the latest round of allegations.