I don't think Eteri was implying Alina won her OGM by luck, as you are trying to do. Alina worked hard and deserved it. Was she also lucky to be the right age, and to be peaking at the Olympics? Of course, there is luck involved in everything, and I think athletes and competitors know that better than anyone else. I think Eteri meant that it was pre-ordained- Alina's destiny to be OGM, and not Evgenia's. I don't think it takes anything away from Alina's victory.
Ermolina's interview with Zagitova `Only the relatives and coaches knew what that victory cost me'
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VenusH.
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tbh, I feel the Olympic gold is bit overrated. Many sports have surprising victories at Olympics, not just figure skating and then the athletes were not able to hold to that standard (which sometimes leads to harsh public scrutiny... people are very ready to tear down their heroes....). So it is understandable why many retire after Olympics. Not everybody is ready to "how DARED you not win" bullcrap.
Tinami Amori
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Eteri never even came close to saying "alina won by luck". Posner and Eteri were discussing a quote by another coach, about a connection between "Higher Powers and winning", in a metaphorical sense. Eteri said that she believes that Higher Powers play a role and reward those who takes a "clean path" to victory. Then Eteri, as confirmation to what she believes in, gave an example, how a random stranger in Korea was walking by and saw Alina with 2 medals and said "Gods on Olympus rewarded you for something you did right".... That's all.....
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Japanfan
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But Alina still had to skate the best on the day. She had some luck come her way, but more than luck was required for her to win.
What you are saying is akin to saying that V/M lucked out on their OG win because of P/C's costume malfunction. While the costume malfunction did cost P/C a bit, and V/M had the luck of skating last, V/M still had to pull out all the stops to win. The judges indicated that they were still favouring P/C for the win in the free IMO, as V/M's victory was a narrow one (less than one point IIRC). V/M had to give the judges no choice but to award them the gold IMO.
I don't know if the scores in the ladies showed a similar preference for the Japanese girls.
Perky Shae Lynn
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Nah, it's not luck at all. It's whoever skates the best on a given night. What ifs are completely irrelevant.
mollymgr
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Any kind of success can be attributed to luck. But one can't say that there is no hard work involved. For a skater, everything has to fall into place. Their hard work, their physical ability, their mental strength, all the factors they can control and those they can't have to all come together for those few minutes. To say that... oh that's just luck... is minimizing someone's life long dedication to a sport. As you get stronger and consistent in the factors you can control, you increase the probability of getting favorable outcomes for the ones you can't control.
Japanfan
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well... speaking of Katarina Witt, she herself thinks that Zagitova's "Carmen" is her equal. She sent Zagitova a message "from Carmen to Carmen" .. https://www.instagram.com/p/BvUQFVshHSR/
I don't agree. However, I do tend to tune out a bit when I have to watch yet another Carmen.
Again, I don't agree. Alina is pretty, yes, but she doesn't have Witt's sass and sex appeal. IMO.
Tinami Amori
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I don't understand what you don't agree with? Katarina Witt's message to Zagitova "from Carmen to Carmen"?
...and if Alina did have same "sass and sex appeal" at 16 as Witt did at 23 (when she was Carmen), that would be awful and cheap... and would not get Alina the sponsors, who seek an age appropriate image and behavior for their products; ingenue image is perfect for her and it pays...
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Japanfan
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I don't agree that Zagitova's 'Carmen' was equal to Witt's. I actually didn't see the message when I clicked on the link, but if Witt said it was equal, I don't agree.
But she may have just being polite.
...and if Alina did have same "sass and sex appeal" at 16 as Witt did at 23 (when she was Carmen), that would be awful and cheap... and would not get Alina the sponsors, who seek an age appropriate image and behavior for their products; ingenue image is perfect for her and it pays...
Yes. I reminded of when teens who are basically still girls skate to 'Big Spender'. It gives me the creeps and is entirely age inappropriate IMO.
annie_mg
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She never said they were equal! She just said "from Carmen to Carmen" and then congratulated her. Tinami interprets that as Witt saying Zagitova was an equal Carmen to her. That's not at all how I read it! Witt was just stating the fact that they both used the same music and won with it. Nothing else to read into it.
VenusH.
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But sweet and innocent Carmen is just not Carmen. Alina is not a sassy flirtatious type and likely will never be.
Perky Shae Lynn
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Lol, Witt was just being gracious. What's she supposed to say, Alina's Carmen was a joke? I mean, there is a
Broadway version of Annie, and there is a high-school version of Annie. Both are great in their own way.
Broadway version of Annie, and there is a high-school version of Annie. Both are great in their own way.
Coco
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I did like the choreography for Alina's Carmen, I just wish we could have seen it! Maybe there's a video of a jumpless runthrough where she's not rushing?
Cherub721
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She didn't have to say anything. She took it upon herself to make an Instagram post from Carmen to Carmen offering sincere congratulations. She wasn't being asked a question that she needed to give a polite answer. I don't know if she considers this Carmen equal but I would certainly interpret her post to mean she liked the skate.
VenusH.
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Or maybe the diva wanted to remind us SHE was the original Carmen when the occasion presented itself. I am pretty sure people asked her questions about Alina's Carmen.
But to be honest, in today's system, you could not get away having a choreo consisting of flirting with the judges
Tinami Amori
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Witt would have been considered "polite" if she was unexpectedly asked, or ran into Zagitova. Witt and Zag have no connections or relationship, and yet Witt felt something to initiate this message at her own desire....I wonder how you feel about little girls skating to any stage character who is "seduced and abandoned", "a concubine in a harem", "killed herself because of a sordid affair", or worst yet "killed the lover"..
How about "performing" is not one's real life?(you better brace up.... Zagitova, if all goes right, is going to be veeeeeery rich and famous in the next few year...
and that i am sure should make you happy).
"from Carmen to Carmen" - this phrase's message is about "equal". she did not say it to any other girls who skated to "Carmen". In 1988 Witt made a statement with her "Carmen", now Zagitova did too. Witt said: I was "the" Carmen, and now you're too".
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canbelto
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Uh are you guys serious? Witt has said many times (and no reason to doubt her sincerity considering this was over 30 years ago) that she was very disappointed in her Olympic performance of Carmen. It did not show her at her best. Maybe she genuinely admired Alina's spunk in skating a technically challenging, clean program when it counted most after such a difficult season.
Tinami Amori
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This is the best Carmen ever! (both girls can take a rest)..
... no stupid "flirting", take them men with power..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1vCLEwPnk
... no stupid "flirting", take them men with power..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1vCLEwPnk
Perky Shae Lynn
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God, she is AMAZING.This is the best Carmen ever! (both girls can take a rest)..
... no stupid "flirting", take them men with power..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-1vCLEwPnk
ps. Hell has frozen over; Tinami & me just agreed on something.
I'll notify the Vatican.
Perky Shae Lynn
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Please, the sooner the better. At call 911 for me, will you? I feel faint.
Japanfan
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Why? So many skaters have done Carmen since Witt did in 1988. Do people ask her questions about all of them? Is there a reason people would ask about Alina specifically?
Sure wasn't luck that gave her those PCS.
Japanfan
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I wonder how you feel about little girls skating to any stage character who is "seduced and abandoned", "a concubine in a harem", "killed herself because of a sordid affair", or worst yet "killed the lover"..
No, but usually girls are not given roles meant for women.
(you better brace up.... Zagitova, if all goes right, is going to be veeeeeery rich and famous in the next few year...
Why should I care? And she's rich and famous already as OG medalist.
Isn't Carmen supposed to be a young teenage girl?! (I have no idea, I just remmeber someone saying it in this forum some time ago)
I don't have that much a problem with her interpretation so much as the musical edit (in both her competitive programs really) is just all around horrible.
Wyliefan
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No, definitely not.
Perky Shae Lynn
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Did all those people win the OGM in ladies skating with Carmen?
Perky Shae Lynn
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Carmen is a femme fatale. It's a highly sexualized and seductive role, and completely inappropriate for a young girl. However, in Alina's case, they were simply using popular music (while wearing a Spanish costume). It didn't feel icky to me, just detached from the original story. The music was just playing in the background as an accompaniment to the jumps.
