Safe Sport Dropping Coughlin Investigation

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skatfan

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Lanie

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Agreed. It is telling the victims of any sort of assault that oh it doesn't matter anymore (not just those who reported him to SafeSport but in general imo, brushing it off now); and it's giving them, and John's family and friends, no closure. Entirely the wrong course of action.
 

Marco

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I wonder if it's simply a matter of not having sufficient evidence to make any meaningful conclusion now that the main character has passed and can no longer assist in the investigation / give evidence. In a normal #metoo case, it's bad enough to decide based on his words against hers, but now to just have her words, and the man not having a fair opportunity to defend - I don't even know how Safe Sports can continue.
 
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puglover

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I wonder if it's simply a matter of not having sufficient evidence to make any meaningful conclusion now that the main character has passed and can no longer assist in the investigation / give evidence. In a normal #metoo case, it's bad enough to decide based on his words against hers, but now to just have her words, and the man not having a fair opporunity to defend - I don't even know how Safe Sports can continue.
I totally agree. Would it not be even less satisfying for everyone concerned if only one side of the story could be told.
 

kwanfan1818

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Perhaps to us. Not necessarily to the people raising the complaints who might feel that he is being given an unfair benefit-of-the-doubt and their side blocked, since it's likely to get even more backlash were they to go public now than it would have were he alive. It also protects those who would have been responsible for reporting.
 

Perky Shae Lynn

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Perhaps to us. Not necessarily to the people raising the complaints who might feel that he is being given an unfair benefit-of-the-doubt and their side blocked, since it's likely to get even more backlash were they to go public now than it would have were he alive. It also protects those who would have been responsible for reporting.
This is going to be very controversial. But I believe that if the accusers feel strongly about telling their side of the story, they should do it. Perhaps they can speak to People or whoever, anonymously or openly. Yes, John can't defend himself. Nor could he really defend himself when he was alive - once his name was attached to complaints involving minors, it was tarnished regardless of the outcome of the investigation. Him giving an interview trying to dispute the accusers' accounts would not accomplish anything. If the victims want to speak up, they should. If children were hurt in any way, or young adults, why should they be afraid to speak just because the accused committed suicide?
 
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MrMystery

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This continues to be such a conflicting situation for me. In theory, I want the investigation to be complete. But in practice, how do you complete a fair and comprehensive investigation when the person being accused is dead? In a criminal case if someone is being charged with a crime, and they die, the case also dies... Quite frankly the situation sucks for all parties, all the way around.
 

overedge

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This is going to be very controversial. But I believe that if the accusers feel strongly about telling their side of the story, they should do it. Perhaps they can speak to People or whoever, anonymously or openly. Yes, John can't defend himself. Nor could he really defend himself when he was alive - once his name was attached to complaints involving minors, it was tarnished regardless of the outcome of the investigation. Him giving an interview trying to dispute the accusers' accounts would not accomplish anything. If the victims want to speak up, they should. If children were hurt in any way, or young adults, why should they be afraid to speak just because the accused committed suicide?

I agree with this. It might also shake open the pockets of the organizations funding SafeSport, if SafeSport is choosing to decline full investigations because they don't have enough resources.
 

Vagabond

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Criminal cases are dropped if the defendant dies so I don’t see why this is different. His family I guess could sue the victims for slander and defamation if they believe the allegations were lies...
In at least some jurisdictions, only the aggrieved person himself can bring a defamation action, and when he dies, the claim dies with him. Regardless, even if the family could file suit, they would have to prove that the allegations were not just false, but lies. And how would they do that, without John Coughlin's testimony?
 

attyfan

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Before deciding to drop the case, does SafeSport have to determine that there are no other issues left (such as possible non-reporting by those who are supposed to do so)? Or, could it drop the case even if there are potential other parties involved who need disciplining (such as someone who failed to report)?
 

caseyedwards

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Criminal cases are dropped if the defendant dies so I don’t see why this is different. His family I guess could sue the victims for slander and defamation if they believe the allegations were lies...
Any word from any police officials into their rape investigations?! If there are any! Probably not as this whole thing was about getting Pulitzer’s!
 

overedge

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By their own mandate, they could have continued the investigation if they found systematic suppression and/or non-comiance on the reporting end. Exhibit A: Michigan State in the Nassar case.

If there were three complaints involving three different complainants (as Brennan reported) that certainly suggests some sort of systematic failure, in not resolving the situation after the first incident.
 

MacMadame

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If there were three complaints involving three different complainants (as Brennan reported) that certainly suggests some sort of systematic failure, in not resolving the situation after the first incident.
I don't think it suggests that. It would depend on if all 3 had complained to a mandatory reporter or the behavior had been seen by a mandatory reporter who didn't report. We don't know one way or another if that happened but SafeSport closing the case suggests it didn't.
 

el henry

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My personal feelings have very little to do with this.

If, in most states, a criminal investigation is halted with the death of the primary or only suspect, I have no idea why Safe Sport would be held to another standard. The purpose of the Safe Sport organization, as far as I can tell, is investigation of complaints.

If clubs, organizations, etc. failed to report, failed to forward complaints, then investigations should be started of those entities. Those investigations are not completed by continuing an investigation of another entity or person.

As far as I can tell, we have no idea, based on our own review of social media, Christine Brennan (see below) or anyone's conclusions, whether there were cover ups, failures to report, failures in the system. There may be, may not be. That would take an investigation. *Of the entity* not of a deceased respondent.

An investigation or a legal proceding does not provide "closure". I would screen witnesses that way; if they were looking for "closure", if I could at all help it, I wouldn't call them. They would, IME, be sorely disappointed.

Brennan's reporting has me, at the very least, scratching my head. She knows there is a criminal investigation exactly how? Complaints could indeed have been forwarded to the police by Safe Sport. The police could have reviewed those complaints, determined on their face that no violation of the state law existed, and never opened an investigation.
Or did I miss a quote from the KC police in that article?:confused:
 

Moustaffask8r

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I agree with this. It might also shake open the pockets of the organizations funding SafeSport, if SafeSport is choosing to decline full investigations because they don't have enough resources.[/QUOTE
My personal feelings have very little to do with this.

If, in most states, a criminal investigation is halted with the death of the primary or only suspect, I have no idea why Safe Sport would be held to another standard. The purpose of the Safe Sport organization, as far as I can tell, is investigation of complaints.

If clubs, organizations, etc. failed to report, failed to forward complaints, then investigations should be started of those entities. Those investigations are not completed by continuing an investigation of another entity or person.

As far as I can tell, we have no idea, based on our own review of social media, Christine Brennan (see below) or anyone's conclusions, whether there were cover ups, failures to report, failures in the system. There may be, may not be. That would take an investigation. *Of the entity* not of a deceased respondent.

An investigation or a legal proceding does not provide "closure". I would screen witnesses that way; if they were looking for "closure", if I could at all help it, I wouldn't call them. They would, IME, be sorely disappointed.

Brennan's reporting has me, at the very least, scratching my head. She knows there is a criminal investigation exactly how? Complaints could indeed have been forwarded to the police by Safe Sport. The police could have reviewed those complaints, determined on their face that no violation of the state law existed, and never opened an investigation.
Or did I miss a quote from the KC police in that article?:confused:
If there is a report made to SafeSport about sexual misconduct, local authorities are also immediately notify of it. I believe, might be wrong so correct me if I am, that local authorities are conducting an investigation to evaluate if criminal charges can be made based on the evidences they're collecting. SafeSport can only restrict or prohibit an individual from interacting in the sport environment to protect the alleged victims while local authorities are conducting their investigation.
 

Marco

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By their own mandate, they could have continued the investigation if they found systematic suppression and/or non-comiance on the reporting end. Exhibit A: Michigan State in the Nassar case.

I agree with this. It may be difficult / impossible to have any meaningful outcome investigating the allegations against John now that he is no longer alive, but it doesn't mean SafeSport shouldn't continue to look into any possible systemic issues around his club.

I do not agree that stopping the investigation in any way belittles the allegations made against him. Those will stay forever. We just will never have a fair assessment of whether they are true or not.
 

overedge

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Brennan's reporting has me, at the very least, scratching my head. She knows there is a criminal investigation exactly how?

From the SafeSport FAQ:
"All reports of child abuse or sexual assault of a minor must also be reported to local authorities."

If her source is correct in that at least one of the complaints involved a minor, then the police would have been notified. But she didn't say where the alleged incidents took place, so it may not be the KC police that are involved.
 

el henry

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If there is a report made to SafeSport about sexual misconduct, local authorities are also immediately notify of it. I believe, might be wrong so correct me if I am, that local authorities are conducting an investigation to evaluate if criminal charges can be made based on the evidences they're collecting. SafeSport can only restrict or prohibit an individual from interacting in the sport environment to protect the alleged victims while local authorities are conducting their investigation.

This may be my parsing of the word "investigation". And definitely the definition of the word "minor".

I will make up a hypothetical that has *absolutely nothing* to do with the Coughlin case, about which I know nothing other than what I read.

Skater X says [ETA: and files a complaint with SafeSport] Director A initiated a consensual sexual relationship with her when Director A was 23 and Skater X was 17. Skater X skated at Director A's rink.

Skater A is a "minor", SafeSport is a mandatory reporter and SafeSport reports to authorities in City and State of Z.

The age of consent in City and State of Z is 16. The City Z police, in my experience, would not open an investigation. What's to investigate? Even if every allegation is true, no crime has been committed.

That is why, without a quote from police, I don't see how Brennan can state unequivocally there is an "investigation". Maybe there is. Maybe there isn't. But the mere fact that a [ ETA: mandatory, not journalistic] reporter forwarded a complaint does not support that conclusion.
 
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caseyedwards

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But how does anyone know Coughlin is even accused of child abuse or sexual assault!?! It has been reported he did something bad with minors but what is not specified! It’s being assumed that he raped lots of minors but there is no proof of that.
 

caseyedwards

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No one here has ever said any such thing. I don't care what is said elsewhere; take it up there if you feel the need and stop trying to derail this thread.
“But people are good at hiding things, and sometimes it's the nicest people, so I'm going to wait to see what comes out of this.”

“would hope that no one would post the identity of an alleged victim of sexual abuse unless the victim outed him or herself. If someone did out a victim or alleged victim of sexual abuse who had not outed themselves, I would hope the admins of”

“Do you want sexual abuse in sports to continue? Are you on the side of abusive coaches and pedophiles and sexual predators? ”

“Some people can be likeable as long as one doesn't see or know about or fully appreciate certain facts, like a history of abusing young children. Take my eldest brother. Actually, take both of my brothers. Please!”

“Abusers are often likable, kind people that you would trust with power-- that's how they get it in the first place. If abuse was only carried out by obviously cruel and unfit, the world would be a much simpler and easier place to live.”

Etc etc!!!
 

caseyedwards

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And again, not one of those quotes says that John Coughlin raped lots of minors. Most of those quotes aren't even ABOUT John Coughlin.

So again--stop trying to derail this thread with hysterical accusations. Second warning.
But why were they even in the Coughlin thread? Can you explain that at all?
 
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