U.S. Men 2018-19 season (cont.) - news & updates

Tavi said:
Is there some reason why Nathan’s costume is especially fascinating this year? Between this thread and the one on GS there are probably at least 30 posts about it.
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Cause it’s ugly and it’s Vera Wang.

I get you can’t really say no to Vera Wang (either because she’s paying you or because USFS seems to think she’s the only choice for champs or because she’s pushy), but Nathan needs to ASAP.
 
Willin said:
Cause it’s ugly and it’s Vera Wang.

I get you can’t really say no to Vera Wang (either because she’s paying you or because USFS seems to think she’s the only choice for champs or because she’s pushy), but Nathan needs to ASAP.
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Hah - Jason’s is sadly ugly too, but hasn’t inspired much discussion. Thankfully.
 
Nathan has never worn an outfit ANL didnt like. lol

Even tho he wears very simple..I like!....they are streamlined, clean and modern.

I actually love this orange and black number and hope we get a chance to see it.

What we wore for the free instead (black with the white web wave across it) I would actually love to have in my wardrobe.
 
The VW blouse with the orange things on it looked too tight and small for Nathan. I think she was going for a sexy skin tight look. But it bombed. He skated out and showed Raf and turned around so that Raf could see it was too small, and Raf obviously agreed and made the decision to cave on it. I can't imagine trying any elements, much less quads, in something that tight fitting. Conversely, the shirt he did wear was too big, especially around the waist, so, when he did spins it fell down his upside down stomach to his chest, we almost saw nippers. Nice try, he had to pull something out of his bag, but it just wasn't sleek enough. There's a huge difference between too tight and too loose. He'll get it worked out by Worlds

I think the only explanation for Jason's shirt is that it was supposed to be from the era of the music, but it was/is atrocious, no taste.

I don't mind the all black, plain look on men's competitors. An outfit should not distract from the performance.
 
Vagabond said:
Why is it that all people talk about when it comes to U.S. Ladies is their technical ability, but when it comes to the Men, all anyone cares about is their costumes? :unsure:
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Well, when you have super-human Nathan Chen as your 3-time defending champ... Everyone and everything is almost an afterthought, lol.
 
Wyliefan said:
I don't think anyone said it had frogs on it, just that the color scheme resembled that of certain South American frogs. :lol: In any event, it was pretty awful. Glad he changed it.
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Colorblocking is so ... dated.

Glad that they only used the one for the short.

I remember Michelle having a LOT of say into her Wang costumes. Towards the end they all kinda looked the same until Bolero, for which she had three very different looks (the lavender one that looked like the rest, the structured gold one, and the purple bandage dress).

I don't love Wang's costumes on men. I think the simple costume and toned down hair (is he going gray a bit?) aren't distracting, which highlights the improvements in his movement and expression.
 
Should we change the name of this thread to “The Costume Thread”?

Or does someone have something to say about a US man’s skating?

We have 3 guys competing at 4 Continents in like a week. Can Jason medal again? How will Vincent fare in front of international judges - can he beat Jason again? Can he medal?
 
Karen-W said:
Well, when you have super-human Nathan Chen as your 3-time defending champ... Everyone and everything is almost an afterthought, lol.
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Fine...Nathan Chen is a great skater and he skated a great program. The judges did not judge. For the PC portion most of them just filled in 10:00's without any thought (except to send him off to worlds with a big hoopala) 10:00's mean perfect. He has lots of room to improve. His marks should have been high...but this is a joke(a bad one).
 
barbarafan said:
Fine...Nathan Chen is a great skater and he skated a great program. The judges did not judge. For the PC portion most of them just filled in 10:00's without any thought (except to send him off to worlds with a big hoopala) 10:00's mean perfect. He has lots of room to improve. His marks should have been high...but this is a joke(a bad one).
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Do 10s mean perfect? Could you please cite this from the rulebook?

The ISU program components ranking says it means "outstanding". I think Nathan was outstanding in nearly every area he received a 10 in. He is not a quad-only skater.
 
The PCS scoring was ludicrous. You know it's a joke when Chen's SP got higher PCS than Jason's. There's nobody at US Nationals who should be scoring higher than Jason on PCS and there hasn't been for the last four years. I can see maybe having Chen higher in the FS, with Jason's errors, but not six fcuking points. And people complain about Russian scoring, jesus.

I fully expect that Jason will be the top US man at 4CC. The international panels are not as generous to Vincent as the National ones were and Jason seems to be growing in confidence all the time in his FS - the SP, of course, is already an absolute masterpiece. I would like to see Jason get 100 from an international panel...and I think he could. There's no-one who will be at 4CCs who should score higher on PCS.
 
FYI, the Bavarian Open entries are out. Joonsoo Kim is in Junior Men and William Annis (novice champ) is in advanced novice (along with Wesley Chiu the Canadian novice champ, one French boy and several German boys).
 
You would think Vera Wang would understand how to design for skaters, because she was a figure skater herself. She does great wedding dresses and evening gowns. Maybe she needs to put on her old skates and go to Wollman Rink in Central Park to remember what it was like to skate in a costume.

MAXSwagg said:
Did she design this one with aerodynamics in mind too? Lmao. She’s so full of BS.
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RoseRed said:
FYI, the Bavarian Open entries are out. Joonsoo Kim is in Junior Men and William Annis (novice champ)
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I'm especially happy for 2019 U.S. Junior bronze medalist Joonsoo Kim as he will get a Team USA jacket with this being his first-ever international assignment. He was injured before Sectionals last season and couldn't qualify for 2018 Nationals in Junior and will age out of ISU Junior events in 2019-20. I believe he originally is from Iowa, moved to the Chicago area for training and then to Los Angeles last summer to begin his freshman year at UCLA, studying neuroscience.

William Annis landed a 3A cleanly in both his Novice SP and FS programs in Detroit. He also competes in ice dance (5th in Juvenile at Eastern Sectionals in November 2018).

Bavarian Open dates are Feb. 5-10. 2019 - link to the competition thread in the Kiss & Cry section: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2019-bavarian-open-feb-5-10-oberstdorf-germany.105212/
 
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Vera Wang makes beautiful costumes.

One problem is her bias toward black with some occasional white and grey. The other problem is that it seems there's no obvious interest in having her listen to the music before she starts cutting. You could take any of Nathan's Wang outfits in past few years and rotate them between any of his recent programs with no noticeable change in impact.
 
I am fairly sure Vera Wang designed for Evan Lysacek at his last Olys. And then, did he have a job there? Weird. The design for Nathan was definitely meant to be a statement piece. But she forgot it was for an athlete, much less a World Champion. He's gotta move.

I feel Nathan's costume issues most definitely could have affected his skating. Fortunately, he knew something was wrong, went to Raf at the last practice/dress rehearsal, Raf called it off, and that didn't happen. Personally, I would have been freaked out and distracted by the second shirt flopping around, but Nathan put it behind him. We will call it incident orange and the baggy leftover shirt.

Nathan's skating was supreme. If you think about what he and Raf have done, it is really kind of amazing. Having been separated by a continent and having communicated only remotely is so 21st century. I'm not sure I personally love the layout of the program with the first 4 elements bam bam bam bam, thank you m'am, but, if you think about it, obviously it keeps him focused on the jumps to peel them off and not separate the biggest ones with spins and footwork and fit those in later when he has time to get more creative, and he is that, indeed. I wonder if his camels could be faster, but the music is slow so perhaps they are ok.

And, yes, Jason was robbed of PCs. When and if he ever lands the big jumps, that should improve. Too bad that's the way judges see the whole program, like you missed that honey so the part that was excellent is really only going to be marked very good. But his style and artistry as a whole really is, as Tara and Johnny would say, melted butter and cotton balls.
 
Tavi said:
Could you start a costume thread please?
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There already is a costume thread in the Trash Can: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/2018-2019-costume-dress-thread.104231/

Hey, I'm trying to stay on topic with my posts here. ;)

I don't believe Europe on Ice's feature article on Jason Brown (published before Nationals) by Hiro Yoshida was posted here: https://europeonice.com/2019/01/21/jason-brown-i-know-i-am-capable-of-more/
Excerpt:
Deconstructing his jumping technique has had an effect on Brown’s consistency in the short term. After attempting quadruple toe loop for years in competition, he is now training quadruple Salchow. All of his jumps with this new technique are a work in progress though.”
“I just have worked so hard on quad toe the past couple of years that undoing all the changes and mastering the new technique has just been more difficult,” Brown said. “Even jumps that I was landing all the time I have struggled through. It took me six weeks to do the triple Axel. I could land it my way and every time I was trying to do what they wanted. It was six weeks before I could start landing it. It was another month after that when it started becoming a little more consistent. I’m still getting used to it. It’s just taking time with the (quad) Salchow because it wasn’t a jump I worked on as much as toe. I was able to get a little further along with it at the moment with all the changes because it wasn’t set in a way.
“It’s just not as far along that journey of change that I’m ready for. It’s just going to take time.”
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ETA - bringing over another article link from Jason's fan thread:
katmari said:
Here's the in-depth interview with Jason from Inside Skating that was done at IdF:

http://www.insideskating.net/2019/0...-still-scratching-the-surface-of-my-potential

The writer, Nadia Vasilyeva, had helped arrange the fan meeting when Jason competed at Rostelecom a few years ago and he seems really comfortable talking with her during the interview. He goes over the same territory that he's done in other interviews but gives more details.
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Skittl1321 said:
Do 10s mean perfect? Could you please cite this from the rulebook?

The ISU program components ranking says it means "outstanding". I think Nathan was outstanding in nearly every area he received a 10 in. He is not a quad-only skater.
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Let's do the math. If next skater up has better skating skills, and/or transitions, and/or composition, and/or performance, and/or interpretation what mark can they be given? You are going back in time to 6:00 system.
 
It was a gorgeous fabulous perfect free skate. It was the kind of skate we used to expect from a champion level men's performance and have not expected for years and years now. I have no problem with the 10's.

It was the world champion skating a perfectly clean program at his own nationals for goodness sake. I expect the same for any other world champion skating a perfectly clean program at home for nationals.

I have plenty of concerns with calling and/or scoring at U.S., Canadian, and Russian Nationals; but none here.
 
Lacey said:
I am fairly sure Vera Wang designed for Evan Lysacek at his last Olys. And then, did he have a job there? Weird. The design for Nathan was definitely meant to be a statement piece. But she forgot it was for an athlete, much less a World Champion. He's gotta move.

I feel Nathan's costume issues most definitely could have affected his skating. Fortunately, he knew something was wrong, went to Raf at the last practice/dress rehearsal, Raf called it off, and that didn't happen. Personally, I would have been freaked out and distracted by the second shirt flopping around, but Nathan put it behind him. We will call it incident orange and the baggy leftover shirt.

Nathan's skating was supreme. If you think about what he and Raf have done, it is really kind of amazing. Having been separated by a continent and having communicated only remotely is so 21st century. I'm not sure I personally love the layout of the program with the first 4 elements bam bam bam bam, thank you m'am, but, if you think about it, obviously it keeps him focused on the jumps to peel them off and not separate the biggest ones with spins and footwork and fit those in later when he has time to get more creative, and he is that, indeed. I wonder if his camels could be faster, but the music is slow so perhaps they are ok.

And, yes, Jason was robbed of PCs. When and if he ever lands the big jumps, that should improve. Too bad that's the way judges see the whole program, like you missed that honey so the part that was excellent is really only going to be marked very good. But his style and artistry as a whole really is, as Tara and Johnny would say, melted butter and cotton balls.
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Personally I don’t think the Skype training was that effective. Nathan won on the GP, no doubt, but he looked pretty sloppy while doing it - and until Nats his SP score was lower than Jason’s.

I think he improved a lot between the GPF and US Nationals, probably bc he was training in the rink with Raf (not via Skype) and went for a touch up with the choreographer. What I think is incredible is how quickly he was able to go from sloppy to really amazing.

Regarding Jason, I’m not sure how much of his PCS is tied the lack of a quad, at least internationally. Maybe a little. I’m pretty sure mistakes impact it as well as how much the program plays to his strengths - it’s higher in the SP for those reasons.

I think Nathan skated quite well at Nats but IMO the judges went more than a little overboard. He got 30 points in plus GOE and almost perfect PCS for a program that was good but not perfect. My guess is that USFS wants to make a statement. I guess we’ll see if it works at Worlds.
 
barbarafan said:
Let's do the math. If next skater up has better skating skills, and/or transitions, and/or composition, and/or performance, and/or interpretation what mark can they be given? You are going back in time to 6:00 system.
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But the skaters aren't being ranked against each other in PCS. They're being evaluated based on criteria set by the ISU and the judges are asked to defend not why Skater A earned a higher mark than Skaters B, C, D, etc but instead how the skater met the criteria for the marks given.
 
COnsidering how much ahead Chen's technical score is, his somewhat high pcs is kind of moot. It doesn't change anything. It's human to want to toss crazy pcs at the winner.

I think the calling and goes should get more scrutiny. Like the level calling, which the skaters may care a bit more about.
 
jlai said:
COnsidering how much ahead Chen's technical score is, his somewhat high pcs is kind of moot. It doesn't change anything. It's human to want to toss crazy pcs at the winner.

I think the calling and goes should get more scrutiny. Like the level calling, which the skaters may care a bit more about.
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Judges are not chosen because they are human. They are chosen because they showed (of faked) that they know their sh**it when it comes to figure skating. Some Domestic judges shouldn't be allowed out of their home arena.
 
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