Ice Dance Partnership Break-Ups Resulting In Success For Another Team or Changing the Trajectory of Ice Dance

[casken]

If the bits and pieces I've heard over the years about Linichuck are true, her actions in the 90s might take the cake for this topic.

Breaking up 93 world bronze medalists Krylova and Federov to lure Oleg Ovysannikov away from his then partner Elena Kustarova with the promise of Krylova as partner, pushing Anissina out, resulting in the teaming of Anissina and Piezerat, and and sticking Lobacheva and Averbuch together, etc...

I think there was a point where she kicked Grishuk out, splitting up G&P, before taking her back?

 

[VGThuy]

I think there was a point where she kicked Grishuk out, splitting up G&P, before taking her back?

I heard Dubova was the one who kicked Grishuk out and wanted Platov to skate with another skater (I think it was Navka actually but I could be wrong). Grishuk apparently called Platov non-stop to convince him to stay with her. The story goes that Platov was ready to join Dubova at her new training base but then decided at the last minute to take the risk and stay with Grishuk, who at the time didn't have a coach yet, and never showed up to the airport to meet Dubova and her group. Then Linichuk was convinced to take Grishuk/Platov on, saying that people told her that she needs a coach and you taught her when she was younger so you have a duty or something like that.

I think there were rumors that Linichuk wanted Grishuk/Platov to retire years before the 1998 Olympics because she was more emotionally invested in Krylova/Ovsyannikov as she coached them from the beginning and continuously...even if they were with other partners throughout before teaming up together.

 

[miffy]

Grishuk was skating with Peter Tchernyshev during a split from Platov but IIRC it caused some sort of problems for Peter’s wife Natalia Annenko and her partner (who were pros by then). I can’t remember what exactly...

 

[gk_891]

Grishuk was skating with Peter Tchernyshev during a split from Platov but IIRC it caused some sort of problems for Peter’s wife Natalia Annenko and her partner (who were pros by then). I can’t remember what exactly...

I'm not sure if they actually skated together but they were going to try out together. But Platov decided to come back to her.

 

[gk_891]

I heard Dubova was the one who kicked Grishuk out and wanted Platov to skate with another skater (I think it was Navka actually but I could be wrong). Grishuk apparently called Platov non-stop to convince him to stay with her. The story goes that Platov was ready to join Dubova at her new training base but then decided at the last minute to take the risk and stay with Grishuk, who at the time didn't have a coach yet, and never showed up to the airport to meet Dubova and her group. Then Linichuk was convinced to take Grishuk/Platov on, saying that people told her that she needs a coach and you taught her when she was younger so you have a duty or something like that.

I think there were rumors that Linichuk wanted Grishuk/Platov to retire years before the 1998 Olympics because she was more emotionally invested in Krylova/Ovsyannikov as she coached them from the beginning and continuously...even if they were with other partners throughout before teaming up together.

Part of the reason why Platov was willing to take the risk and leave Dubova and Navka was that Dubova was spending all of her time with U&Z and that Navka had her head in the clouds due to her affair with Zhulin. He realized that if he showed up to the 1993 Worlds with Navka, he might place 10th or so which in his mind would be unacceptable after medalling in 1992 with Grishuk. He also wasn't impressed with Dubova's over-willingness to throw away all those years of hard work he put in with Grishuk from 1989 to 1992. So he left and rejoined Grishuk to skate with her again.

Yup, Karponosov had to convince Linichuk to take Grishuk back. When Grishuk left her skating camp to skate with Platov and Dubova in 1989, Linichuk was furious and saw it as a betrayal. But Grishuk's mother and aunt spoke with Karponosov about Grishuk's situation after she was kicked out of Dubova's skating camp (after allegedly being beaten up by Dubova's husband) and he managed to convince Linichuk to take her back under her wing.

But yes, Linichuk openly talked about leading K&O to Olympic gold as early as 1995. I remember reading somewhere as to why she would do that and Linichuk's old coach, Elena Chaikovskaya said that G&P could be 10 time Olympic champions but it wouldn't matter because they are a teach that had been put togeher by another trainer (Dubova). Hence her emotional investment in Krylova & Ovsiannikov.

 

[blue_idealist]

I think it's sad that Asher Hill did not continue in ice dance. I thought he was very talented and showed a lot of promise. I think that Alex and Mitch were much like VM in terms of their style and I was puzzled why they didn't have more success. I guess all the little mistakes added up. Their decisions were probably due, in part, to the longevity of VM's, WP's and GP's ice dance career. I cannot wait to see what LL add to the mix when they eventually become senior. I think they are a perfect combination of VM and Papadakis and Cizeron....

I just imagined an Asher/Piper pairing, something I'd never even pondered before, LOL. I think that would have been interesting.

It seemed like whenever Paul/Islam would have a chance to do something big, a fall would occur. It was quite a big achievement for them to make the Olympic team, though, over Piper/Paul.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Part of the reason why Platov was willing to take the risk and leave Dubova and Navka was that Dubova was spending all of her time with U&Z and that Navka had her head in the clouds due to her affair with Zhulin. He realized that if he showed up to the 1993 Worlds with Navka, he might place 10th or so which in his mind would be unacceptable after medalling in 1992 with Grishuk. He also wasn't impressed with Dubova's over-willingness to throw away all those years of hard work he put in with Grishuk from 1989 to 1992. So he left and rejoined Grishuk to skate with her again.

Yup, Karponosov had to convince Linichuk to take Grishuk back. When Grishuk left her skating camp to skate with Platov and Dubova in 1989, Linichuk was furious and saw it as a betrayal. But Grishuk's mother and aunt spoke with Karponosov about Grishuk's situation after she was kicked out of Dubova's skating camp (after allegedly being beaten up by Dubova's husband) and he managed to convince Linichuk to take her back under her wing.

But yes, Linichuk openly talked about leading K&O to Olympic gold as early as 1998. I remember reading somewhere as to why she would do that and Linichuk's old coach, Elena Chaikovskaya said that G&P could be 10 time Olympic champions but it wouldn't matter because they are a teach that had been put togeher by another trainer (Dubova). Hence her emotional investment in Krylova & Ovsiannikov.

And in the end after all the drama the three Olympic titles of the 90s (92/94/98) all went to Tatiana Tarasova...........with teams Dubova and Linichuk had and lost

 

[VGThuy]

And in the end after all the drama the three Olympic titles of the 90s (92/94/98) all went to Tatiana Tarasova...........with teams Dubova and Linichuk had and lost

Linichuk actually coached G/P to gold in 1994 ahead off Dubova’s U/Z but Tarasova did get them later on and coached them to Olympic gold in 1998 ahead of K/O and Dubova’a B/K (who came in fourth). Tarasova was sort of lucky in the 90s and Dubova unlucky but it seems that was Dubova’s own doing. Shame though because it seemed that she really was an excellent ice dance coach.

 

[gk_891]

Linichuk actually coached G/P to gold in 1994 ahead off Dubova’s U/Z but Tarasova did get them later on and coached them to Olympic gold in 1998 ahead of K/O and Dubova’a B/K (who came in fourth). Tarasova was sort of lucky in the 90s and Dubova unlucky but it seems that was Dubova’s own doing. Shame though because it seemed that she really was an excellent ice dance coach.

Dubova got way too involved with her students' personal lives. But I remember Platov once said (IIRC) that Dubova's working relationship with Grishuk was already starting to deteriorate in 1992 and that Grishuk leaving was probably going to happen one way or another. I guess the affair with Zhulin just made it all happen sooner rather than latter, not to mention much more dramatically.

Apparently Klimova & Ponomarenko worked with Dubova in the late 90s to make their 1987 OSP into the Golden Waltz compulsory dance so I am guessing that they had made some amends at around that time. I wonder if there had been any amends between her with either Grishuk or Platov. Platov didn't have the most flattering things to say about Dubova as a person after he retired so maybe not.

 

[topaz]

I remember how the horrible injuries to Melissa Gregory and denis Petukhov at 2007 Skate Canada forced them out of skating. They did not return to competition after that if i recall.

 

[Amantide]

I loved G&P and they had a long and big career. But I actually loved Grishuk&Chickov too.

 

[gk_891]

I loved G&P and they had a long and big career. But I actually loved Grishuk&Chickov.

They were exceptionally well matched with one another. They were good but not great together as a junior team. But if they had gone to Dubova together and undergone some polishing, they really could've been something quite amazing.

 

[Amantide]

They were exceptionally well matched with one another. They were good but not great together as a junior team. But if they had gone to Dubova together and undergone some polishing, they really could've been something quite amazing.

Exactly. They were still young but there was something there which draw my attention like immediately.
I would've loved to see what could they have become with a good coach.

 

[Vash01]

I loved Silverstein and Pekarek.

I loved them too.

Were Anissina/Averbukh one of the few examples where a partnership break up resulted in the former partners forming two strong teams that both had great success? That might be the most extreme example as the subsequent teams that formed from that break up came in first and second at the 2002 Olympics.

This is who I first thought of when I saw this thread. I never watched Anissina and Averbukh skate together. May be there is a yt somewhere.

I heard that eons ago Klimova and Ponomarenko had different partners but I don't know their names. K&P certainly changed the trajectory of ice dance.

 

[gkelly]

This is who I first thought of when I saw this thread. I never watched Anissina and Averbukh skate together. May be there is a yt somewhere.

1991 Junior World free dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJcLMQ1PYAI

1992 Junior World OD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5fYfmztxoM
1992 Junior World free dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNPiX-fRxtw

Rocker Foxtrot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rbiMGiD3TQ
(This dance is now used in novice and lower competitions, so it's interesting to see it skated by top juniors)

There are also some exhibitions online.

I know I've seen at least part of their 1990 FD, but perhaps not online.

I heard that eons ago Klimova and Ponomarenko had different partners but I don't know their names.

Ponomarenko won the first two official Junior world championships (1978 and 79; not counting the "I.S.U. Junior Figure Skating Championships" in 76 and 77 seasons) with partner Tatiana Durasova.
Klimova would have been a child at the time. According to Wikipedia she was skating with a partner named Oleg Volkov.

 

[nuge]

Off topic but it's a shame Marina ditched the white boots for the horrible tights She looked so much better and taller in the white.

 

[Erin]

I have nothing to add to this thread but being reminded of the Zhulin/Grishuk/Usova/Platov/Navka affair and partner switching, coach switching drama makes me sad that the internet wasn’t around then. Or that we don’t have a similar drama like that now.

I also enjoy that Grishuk was kicked out for having an affair with Zhulin only for Platov to be given a new partner who was...drumroll...having an affair with Zhulin.

 

[gk_891]

I have nothing to add to this thread but being reminded of the Zhulin/Grishuk/Usova/Platov/Navka affair and partner switching, coach switching drama makes me sad that the internet wasn’t around then. Or that we don’t have a similar drama like that now.

I also enjoy that Grishuk was kicked out for having an affair with Zhulin only for Platov to be given a new partner who was...drumroll...having an affair with Zhulin.

At the 1993 Europeans, Usova & Zhulin, Grishuk & Platov, and Navka & Gezalian were all in the same group together for the OD. At the beginning of the video below on the right side of the screen, you can see Dubova standing there and she seems to be giving someone an appraising look. And that person seems to be Platov who of course left her group to reteam with Grishuk. Right behind Platov is Tatiana Navka and right behind her is Samuel Gezalian. I wonder how Maia felt about having her husband's ex-mistress and current mistress skating in the same flight as her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIqDSlJBag

When Usova & Zhulin finish skating, the teams pass by each other at the boards. I wonder how awkward that must've been for everyone considering what had went down less than a year ago.

 

[purple skates]

The Hubbells are an example of a fairly successful brother/sister team that split. It has worked out for Madison, I don't know if Kiefer wanted to continue or not, but if so, not for him. The success of Hubbell/Donohue has affected Chock/Bates trajectory.

Kiefer had back injuries that ultimately pushed him out of the sport.

 

[Erin]

Kiefer had back injuries that ultimately pushed him out of the sport.

Well he did continue skating for two years after he and Madison split. He tried out with Vanessa Crone (presumably among others) and briefly had a partnership with Anastasia Olsen. They competed at 2013 Nationals and finished 7th. I think it's fair to say that it took him longer to find a partner than Madison and that he didn't find the same immediate success with the partner he did team up with, compared to Madison and Zach. Now maybe the back injuries were the cause of some of that, as I'm sure it limited him, but it's not like he just retired after the split.

 

[The Observer]

I think the Crone/Poirier breakup also vaulted Weaver/Poje up the ladder faster than if C/P had stayed together.

Paul took himself out of the running for a few years by beginning a new partnership and the build up that entails and W/P were able to capitalize on that.

Well, for a while Crone & Poirier were a stronger team than Weaver & Poje, and used to beat them quite a lot.

But by the time of 2011 Nationals, Weaver & Poje nearly beat Crone & Poirier for the National Title (and did beat them in the technical mark), and by the time of 2011 Worlds, Weaver & Poje had overtaken Crone & Poirier.

That may have been because of the mistakes Vanessa made at those events, but it's possible that Crone & Poirier had peaked, and it's possible that Paul & Carol Lane thought so too. Based on the articles about it in 2011, it sounds like Vanessa & Paul were no longer good friends by the time of Spring 2011 and were having some personality conflicts, and that Carol Lane & Vanessa may also have fallen out.

So although changing partners did cause Paul to fall in the ranks for a few years, the partnership with Piper has ultimately been successful in staying in the Top 10 in the World and remaining one of the top Canadian dance teams.