The Skating Lesson 2018/2019

[MK's Winter]

I would expect if she is showing up here she has reasonable expectations for herself and has determined that she is in a mental state where she can handle a poorer performance. Likely because she’s is playing a long game and this is a means to an end. I would think she’s got a support system in place that includes doctors who are giving her strategies and mechanisms to deal with what’s going to come at her. Instead of assuming she doesn’t know what she’s getting herself into, let’s assume she does and that she is putting the pieces in place to make this comeback successful on her terms.

After watching her short program- I stand by my words.

 

[MK's Winter]

Rostelecom Recap:

https://youtu.be/5-WavHJxJoo

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Rostelecom Recap:

https://youtu.be/5-WavHJxJoo

If the time stamp is any indication, DL & JB gave Gold 30 minutes of their thoughts in that recap.

 

[Amantide]

Rostelecom Recap:

https://youtu.be/5-WavHJxJoo

The world is turning upside down, apparently, because I agree with them about almost everything in this episode.

One thing though, did I miss something cause Kolyada is in the title but I didn't hear them speaking about him. I confess, I skipped the part where they were talking about some non related COR gibberish. Probably for that better though, since baby Koly has decided to drive me mad this season.

As "journalists" they are frauds. How many legitimate journalists spend so much time talking about people's backsides, hair, makeup, dress and who Nicolai Morosov is currently sleeping with? This is not journalism but gossip mongering plain and simple.

Agreed. It's the reason I dislike them. Though occasionally I do watch the GP coverage, and I like the interviews. There is a word in Italian "comare", you know like the Merry Wives of Windsor. That's how I see them. lol

 

[Willin]

I listened to this based on the feedback. I thought their feedback on Gracie was surprisingly thoughtful and insightful.

It was also interesting to hear what they were saying about her coaching team and how they are using her to get a medal. I think they're right that Yuka Sato would be good for her, but I also think Kori Ade would be a great choice. Someone that's nurturing would be good.

ETA: Kinda ironic to talk about the pressure put on skaters, though, when they certainly add to that...

 

[MK's Winter]

The world is turning upside down, apparently, because I agree with them about almost everything in this episode.

One thing though, did I miss something cause Kolyada is in the title but I didn't hear them speaking about him. I confess, I skipped the part where they were talking about some non related COR gibberish. Probably for that better though, since baby Koly has decided to drive me mad this season.



Agreed. It's the reason I dislike them. Though occasionally I do watch the GP coverage, and I like the interviews. There is a word in Italian "comare", you know like the Merry Wives of Windsor. That's how I see them. lol

Kolyada is killing my soul this season
I love his programs this season!

They were on point regarding Gracie.

And I’m sorry- we need to bring back Landover. Some of the best skates were in 90’s pro-comps

 

[Vash01]

I had never listened to TSL before this and I won't in the future. Not their fault. Just my preference. I like to read, and not have to listen to thousands of unnecessary words when they don't get to the point quickly. It's hard to do that when you have more than one person talking. I use youtube mostly to watch skating and singers. I wish they would just give a summary. I had to push myself to listen to the whole discussion about Gracie.

Yuka Sato sounds like a good choice as a coach for Gracie. I agree that she needed more time to reach a certain level of confidence, but I disagree that she should be blamed for entering COR. Although he says he is not blaming her, it was implied, IMO. They feel that it should have been a group decision, with USFSA involvement. Is that how GP selections made? I thought if Russia invited her (based on past performances), does the USFSA have a say in her acceptance? I don't know.

Who are Mitch and Vincent? Are they her current coaches?

They are talking about "huge red flags". I think this is Monday morning quarterbacking. Why did they not see these red flags before the competition?

 

[Firedancer]

The world is turning upside down, apparently, because I agree with them about almost everything in this episode.

One thing though, did I miss something cause Kolyada is in the title but I didn't hear them speaking about him. I confess, I skipped the part where they were talking about some non related COR gibberish. Probably for that better though, since baby Koly has decided to drive me mad this season.



Agreed. It's the reason I dislike them. Though occasionally I do watch the GP coverage, and I like the interviews. There is a word in Italian "comare", you know like the Merry Wives of Windsor. That's how I see them. lol

They talked about Kolyada closer to the end. They think he should go to Raf full time.

I agreed with most of what they said as well and think they did a good job discussing Gracie. I found what they had to say about her coach very concerning.

 

[skateboy]

My two cents: what happened at Rostelecom happened. Maybe the best thing for Gracie is for everyone to stop talking about it. Let Gracie deal with herself, in her own way, without throwing her coaches or USFS under the bus, questioning her motives, suggesting new coaches, or speculating about what she should or shouldn't have done. TSL going on about it for 30 minutes doesn't help anything.

 

[Cleo1782]

I had never listened to TSL before this and I won't in the future. Not their fault. Just my preference. I like to read, and not have to listen to thousands of unnecessary words when they don't get to the point quickly. It's hard to do that when you have more than one person talking. I use youtube mostly to watch skating and singers. I wish they would just give a summary. I had to push myself to listen to the whole discussion about Gracie.

Yuka Sato sounds like a good choice as a coach for Gracie. I agree that she needed more time to reach a certain level of confidence, but I disagree that she should be blamed for entering COR. Although he says he is not blaming her, it was implied, IMO. They feel that it should have been a group decision, with USFSA involvement. Is that how GP selections made? I thought if Russia invited her (based on past performances), does the USFSA have a say in her acceptance? I don't know.

Who are Mitch and Vincent? Are they her current coaches?

They are talking about "huge red flags". I think this is Monday morning quarterbacking. Why did they not see these red flags before the competition?

Mitch is Mitch Moyer the USFS director of High Performance (or something akin to that title). He basically is in charge of elite athletes (ie monitoring them for assignments, helping with coaching/partner changes, getting medical help, etc). Mitch could theoretically pull her from USFS assignments, but not this GP because Russia chose her. I think TSL was saying Mitch could be more proactive in finding her a better training situation.

Vincent is Vincent Restancourt (sp?). He is former French men's skater. He was fairly successful on the junior circuit in the late 90's and early 2000's. He is Gracie's current coach. He has hopped around many rinks in the US and there is a lot of talk he has had several allegations of misconduct with teenage female girls. He most recently was Ting Cui's coach before he was abruptly dismissed by her and her family.

 

[CaliSteve]

So am I the only one who thinks TSL has made some positive improvements recently? Although the recaps are still long, to me they seem better paced and more focused, and although both Dave and Jonathan are definitely still opinionated - and their opinions may rub many the wrong way - there’s less gratuitous snark. Overall they seem to be striving to keep the tone more professional, which I appreciate. I also like the +5/-5 series Dave is doing.

Word!

 

[CaliSteve]

My two cents: what happened at Rostelecom happened. Maybe the best thing for Gracie is for everyone to stop talking about it. Let Gracie deal with herself, in her own way, without throwing her coaches or USFS under the bus, questioning her motives, suggesting new coaches, or speculating about what she should or shouldn't have done. TSL going on about it for 30 minutes doesn't help anything.

I think you are missing the point of the TSL discussion. Not talking about it and sweeping it under the rug like it never happened is more damaging in my opinion.

I strongly believe there was unintentional negligence on the part of Gracie's team and the USFS for allowing her skate at Rostelecom. The results could have more damaging effects then we realize and all of this could have been avoided. I don not believe TSL was throwing anyone under the bus but they were questioning the process and rightfully so. This isnt just about someones comeback, its about someones mental health and recovery that is most important.

 

[CaliSteve]

I listened to this based on the feedback. I thought their feedback on Gracie was surprisingly thoughtful and insightful.

It was also interesting to hear what they were saying about her coaching team and how they are using her to get a medal. I think they're right that Yuka Sato would be good for her, but I also think Kori Ade would be a great choice. Someone that's nurturing would be good.

ETA: Kinda ironic to talk about the pressure put on skaters, though, when they certainly add to that...

Lets be honest, we all put pressure on skaters, especially our favorites.

 

[skateboy]

Not talking about it and sweeping it under the rug like it never happened is more damaging in my opinion.

Damaging to whom? To Gracie?

And, if so, how so?

(It happened, so it hasn't been swept under the rug, it was out there for all to see. And I'm sure no one is more aware of that than Gracie.)

 

[Amantide]

They talked about Kolyada closer to the end. They think he should go to Raf full time.

I agreed with most of what they said as well and think they did a good job discussing Gracie. I found what they had to say about her coach very concerning.

Oh...I totally missed that. I heard they were speaking about Raf, but I didn't get they were ref. to Koly.
Thanks.

 

[MarieM]

Vincent is Vincent Restancourt (sp?). He is former French men's skater. He was fairly successful on the junior circuit in the late 90's and early 2000's. He is Gracie's current coach. He has hopped around many rinks in the US and there is a lot of talk he has had several allegations of misconduct with teenage female girls. He most recently was Ting Cui's coach before he was abruptly dismissed by her and her family.

They implied he has a record in France. And that is something they can't know because you can't look at records in France.
Which puts their whole thing as being either a lie or a made up story. Considering who's talking, I wonder why they're going after him. Did he throw them out of his rink? Vincent HATES fans. Like most french skaters of that time.

 

[CaliSteve]

Damaging to whom? To Gracie?

And, if so, how so?

(It happened, so it hasn't been swept under the rug, it was out there for all to see. And I'm sure no one is more aware of that than Gracie.)

Im talking about dealing with the aftermath and the potential effects. The last thing is to put it "in the past" and "move on" without asking how this all happened in the first place. How did we let someone, who clearly was not prepared to compete in a major competition, compete. This is about mental health issues of skaters and the need to take precautions to protect overall health of the skater. Gracie isnt the only skater out there dealing with mental health issues.

 

[wickedwitch]

Im talking about dealing with the aftermath and the potential effects. The last thing is to put it "in the past" and "move on" without asking how this all happened in the first place. How did we let someone, who clearly was not prepared to compete in a major competition, compete.

Who could stop her? It was out of USFSA's hands months ago after they submitted her name. And the most her coaches could do would be to advise against it or threaten not to come with her.

Gracie made a mistake competing. It's her mistake, but she'll move on -- because in the grand scheme it wasn't that big of mistake -- and will (hopefully) learn from it for the future.

 

[triple_toe]

Who could stop her? It was out of USFSA's hands months ago after they submitted her name. And the most her coaches could do would be to advise against it or threaten not to come with her.

Gracie made a mistake competing. It's her mistake, but she'll move on -- because in the grand scheme it wasn't that big of mistake -- and will (hopefully) learn from it for the future.

It's the job of a good coach to stop her, not be too afraid to lose ties with her if they go against her wishes. That's what they're there for.

It's yet to be seen how big of a mistake this really was. There's no guarantee she'll easily move on. It could be nothing, it could be really devastating. I hope it's the former.

 

[Tinami Amori]

They talked about Kolyada closer to the end. They think he should go to Raf full time.

Many people think it should be Mishin... I agree, given what he did for Kostner, and how he taught Pluschenko. Kolyada is very attached to his family, his parents and siblings. Moving to another country would add stress.

 

[el henry]

....

Vincent is Vincent Restancourt (sp?). He is former French men's skater. He was fairly successful on the junior circuit in the late 90's and early 2000's. He is Gracie's current coach. He has hopped around many rinks in the US and there is a lot of talk he has had several allegations of misconduct with teenage female girls. He most recently was Ting Cui's coach before he was abruptly dismissed by her and her family.

If there is indeed "talk" about "allegations of misconduct", then those who are "talking" should do something about it.

Pennsylvania (where Vincent is now working) has a very strict child protective services law. There is a hotline where reports of misconduct can be anonymously reported, and they will be investigated. I can give anyone the number offline if they would like it. Further, Pennsylvania will hold anyone who is a "mandatory reporter" liable if they do not report this misconduct.

Any credible allegations should additionally be reported to Safe Sport, whether with a minor or not.

If people want to "talk", and not "do", I have very little time for that....

 

[Cleo1782]

If there is indeed "talk" about "allegations of misconduct", then those who are "talking" should do something about it.

Pennsylvania (where Vincent is now working) has a very strict child protective services law. There is a hotline where reports of misconduct can be anonymously reported, and they will be investigated. I can give anyone the number offline if they would like it. Further, Pennsylvania will hold anyone who is a "mandatory reporter" liable if they do not report this misconduct.

Any credible allegations should additionally be reported to Safe Sport, whether with a minor or not.

If people want to "talk", and not "do", I have very little time for that....

Sure, of course. I was merely pointing out who TSL was referring to and what they were referencing. I have no idea if these rumors are true or not, I was just answering a question to a poster that asked for clarification. I am not obligated to be a mandatory reporter to rumors, nor do I even live in the state of Pennsylvania. You have enough time to post on a message board so clearly you have time to post how you don't have time for it. So please don't call me out on gossiping or letting something inappropriate go. That's not okay with me.

 

[aftershocks]

No one, but no one, but no one, has been more critical of Dave and Jonathan than I. So the long list of Dave’s sins can be safely, nay profitably be skipped. I know them, and I will never forget (although it wasn’t part of the show) “crying in a bathroom in Grenoble”.

I am finding the new TSL, particularly the plus 5 and minus 5 reviews, to actually be somewhat helpful. And I still like the interviews.

I am most and completely concerned that @mysticchic and @Tony Wheeler new YouTube channel, with all its wonderful interviews, be set up as the Anti-Dave. No, no, no, no, no

You can like their work *and* like TSL. People who think that criticism consists only of self-righteous snark, no, but that is NOT all of TSL’s audience, and we do them a disservice if we say you need to like one or the other.

You can like Coke *and* Pepsi

Of course. By me pointing out that DL knows he has competition does not mean any particular podcast needs to be chosen over another. Everyone has free will to do whatever they wish regarding following the sport. I'm just glad to see more passionate fans making the effort to provide a variety of figure skating coverage. That's a good thing. There's nothing wrong with anyone taking a unique approach that is passionate, knowledgeable, entertaining and that points out likes and dislikes, without crossing the line into petty offensiveness. Some people enjoy DL's snark. For me, he went too far once too often. And as I said, he has not seemed to recognize or to take responsibility for so many of his offensive comments. If he is genuinely making an effort to change his approach, that's a good thing.

Indeed @Tavi, tone is an important thing, which in some cases can be miscontrued and misinterpreted on Internet forums. On podcasts, generally, what you see is what you get. As far as my tone in pointing out that I have been offended by DL's disrespect toward a number of skaters, I make no apologies for being forthright and opinionated.

 

[cholla]

So please don't call me out on gossiping or letting something inappropriate go. That's not okay with me.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that you were not the one called out in El Henry's post. TSL/DL was.

 

[Cleo1782]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that you were not the one called out in El Henry's post. TSL/DL was.

Perhaps. I just wanted to make it clear I have no firsthand knowledge of the situation. If I did, I of course would notify the proper people.

 

[Firedancer]

TSL interviewed Kurt Browning:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=A8NG65oGBbk

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Browning is so much fun to listen to, great guy.

 

[kosjenka]

I understand people disliking TSL for their commentary, but hats off to for all the interviews!

 

[CaliSteve]

I had never listened to TSL before this and I won't in the future. Not their fault. Just my preference. I like to read, and not have to listen to thousands of unnecessary words when they don't get to the point quickly. It's hard to do that when you have more than one person talking. I use youtube mostly to watch skating and singers. I wish they would just give a summary. I had to push myself to listen to the whole discussion about Gracie.

Yuka Sato sounds like a good choice as a coach for Gracie. I agree that she needed more time to reach a certain level of confidence, but I disagree that she should be blamed for entering COR. Although he says he is not blaming her, it was implied, IMO. They feel that it should have been a group decision, with USFSA involvement. Is that how GP selections made? I thought if Russia invited her (based on past performances), does the USFSA have a say in her acceptance? I don't know.

Who are Mitch and Vincent? Are they her current coaches?

They are talking about "huge red flags". I think this is Monday morning quarterbacking. Why did they not see these red flags before the competition?

I dont think DL implied that it was Gracie's fault at all. He puts the blame on her team and the USFA and i agree with him on this. Some of the red flags were reports of her practice sessions/progress at home and at Rostelecom. He also mentioned the technical content was the same level as 2016, which should have been a red flag with her coaching.

 

[CaliSteve]

Who could stop her? It was out of USFSA's hands months ago after they submitted her name. And the most her coaches could do would be to advise against it or threaten not to come with her.

Gracie made a mistake competing. It's her mistake, but she'll move on -- because in the grand scheme it wasn't that big of mistake -- and will (hopefully) learn from it for the future.

Gracie is recovering from mental health issues so these "mistakes" can be very damaging and have long term effects, which is why her team and the USFSA should have taken extra precautions in accessing her physical AND mental health.