Who was Frank's 2nd favorite student of all time

Frank's all time 2nd favorite pupil


  • Total voters
    91
And Jonny won a world medal before Evan...

:lol: Johnny did not win a World medal before Evan. I don't even need to check that stat. I lived it in real time.


What is it you are not understanding from what happened at 2005 Worlds and 2005 U.S. Nationals, which I already laid out in an earlier post? Evan was placed in third at 2005 U.S. Nationals unfairly over Matt Savoie, IMHO. Goebel landed in second and Johnny won his second U.S. National title. At 2005 Worlds, Johnny had a foot injury but he still managed to skate on a par with and even better than some of those who medaled (Lambiel, Buttle, Evan).

In the sp at 2005 Worlds, Evan skated poorly, but then somewhat better in the fp. Interestingly, Evan (as the U.S. bronze medalist) was 4th in the sp and 4th in the fp. Johnny (as the U.S. champion) was dumped on in both segments, but so many other skaters the judges had attempted to bury Johnny behind fizzled in the fp which is why Johnny even came close to landing in 4th overall. Johnny actually should have medaled based on the less than stellar performances of those in front of him, and the fact that he had boffo programs and he had excelled on the GP. He had withdrawn from the GPF due to his foot injury (after winning gold at NHK & France, and silver at Cup of Russia). Reputation-wise, none of that seemed to matter to the judges at Worlds, seemingly because U.S. fed was backing Evan all the way. And that's not 'blaming' Evan for anything.

I already pointed out that Johnny was good enough to medal at 2004 Worlds, but he didn't. So he absolutely did not win a World medal before Evan! Johnny almost missed out on winning any World medals. It's fair to say that it's only Evan's injury taking him out of 2008 Worlds, which helped Johnny land on the podium as the only U.S. medalist. At 2004 Worlds, the U.S. was in a bit of a political snafu after 2003 Worlds and the poor reception Cinquanta had received in D.C./ plus the failed attempt by U.S.-backed sources to replace the ISU with the World Skating Federation. In Germany at 2004 Worlds, something strange happened on the ice just before Michelle Kwan skated. And Johnny's talent was simply not rewarded at 2004 Worlds largely due to politics. But in Johnny's case, U.S. fed wasn't particularly heavily backing him anyway (not even in the absence of Evan being there). Let's remember that a U.S. fed official had already warned Johnny prior to the beginning of the 2003-2004 season that they 'weren't going to do Johnny any favors.'
 
^^ Just laying out what actually happened. No tears are needed for Johnny Weir. :p We all make our bed, and our life choices, and then have to lay in it, sleep in it, roll with it, live with it. Life is not fair. And no one ever said that figure skating is fair! No way! Nor will it ever be. :COP: :judge::wall::barrel
 
Divorce it :p

:rofl: Dance in it, dream in it, cuddle in it, read in it, have pillow fights in it, make love in it or just have sex or whatever :shuffle:, pretend we're flying in it, have nightmares in it, pretty it up, have a slumber party in it, jump in it, toss it away, drag a new one in off the street :eek:, or save up and buy a new one. ;)
 
I personally think Evan was more talented than Johnny. Johnny had prettier lines, more elegance, and bigger jumps but Evan had stronger spins, much stronger footwork, more speed and attack, and he sold his programs and music better, and had superior command of the ice. He was also stronger at combination jumps, carrying the speed and flow throughout. The gap in their talent was probably less than the gap in their results though. Abbot was the most naturally talented of the trio.

It helped a lot that Lysacek had a much stronger work ethic than Weir.
 
Johnny was much more naturally talented.

Goodness, Johnny started skating at age 12 and won Jr. Worlds at age 16, including performing three 3A between the SP and LP. Goodness he does not look like he had only been skating 4 years!
https://youtu.be/Op38RgGe8xc

Johnny beat Evan at those Jr. Worlds and probably sparked their rivalry; Evan had been skating 7 years at that point to Johnny's 4 years, and all accounts say Evan really wanted that Jr. World title.
https://youtu.be/KMf77ij4VWo

But in the end Johnny had the 3A.

Johnny also competed in pairs at the novice and intermediate level.
 
Last edited:
IIRC Johnny and Evan were tied in total points in 2008 and the tie breaker was the short technical score by rules. Johnny may have been the artistic skater, but in the end it was the short program that tipped the scale. I didn't feel like the U.S. Fed was sending a message. /shrug.

I remember having the discussion with several people on the way back to the hotel.

As for 2nd favorite or even 1st favorite student, I suspect similar to parenting that Frank appreciate/love/like/feel closest to his students for different reasons and it might be difficult to list them in order of favorites. But maybe that's putting my take on life to Frank's.

I just think Frank had a great number of successful students.
 
IIRC Johnny and Evan were tied in total points in 2008 and the tie breaker was the short technical score by rules. Johnny may have been the artistic skater, but in the end it was the short program that tipped the scale. I didn't feel like the U.S. Fed was sending a message. /shrug.

I remember having the discussion with several people on the way back to the hotel.

As for 2nd favorite or even 1st favorite student, I suspect similar to parenting that Frank appreciate/love/like/feel closest to his students for different reasons and it might be difficult to list them in order of favorites. But maybe that's putting my take on life to Frank's.

I just think Frank had a great number of successful students.

The USFSA will always run games with people's futures and their participation in these things! Ties are suspicious; esp. when the elements are so different! I keep thinking they're trying to give themselves an out when they make a choice rather than allow the comp. to choose the winner! Back in 2002, Todd Eldridge was up for his 2nd Olympics @ SLC! He and his fans may have thought of him as the prohibitive favorite at Nationals with only a skinny kid from Chicago trying to complete quads with no artist jeux de vie in his skating as his real competition! IIRC Timothy Goebel wound up being tied with TODD after the SP, but they gave Eldridge the top due to his artist score because Goebel tech. did more! All figure Todd had the Int'l exposure so they were leaning his way even though he had regressed and gone back to an old program with fewer tech. content playing it safe! Timothy was quite impressive with all the quads; 3 in the LP after completed in the SP! He was more successful than not and for 2 seasons achieved a lot for himself and the US! At the Olympics it appeared they chose wrong with Tim keeping his feet, completing all of his quads, and winning a Bronze for the USA while Eldridge was in 6th well out of contention! TG went on to not only win that Bronze, but 2 World Silver medals behind Yagudin and Plushenko in consecutive seasons! Again TE had the respect of the USFSA at the expense of disrespecting Goebel! :rolleyes::COP::judge::puppet::revenge:
 
Back in 2002, Todd Eldridge was up for his 2nd Olympics @ SLC!

I totally agree with what you say, but it was Todd's 3rd Olympics in 2002 because the USFSA had been playing favorites with him since at least 1992 ... And the only international wins it ever amounted to was a World Championship in 1996 after being beaten at US Nationals by a poor relatively old semi-retired guy from a trailer park in East San Jose that was coached by his sister :rolleyes:
 
I totally agree with what you say, but it was Todd's 3rd Olympics in 2002 because the USFSA had been playing favorites with him since at least 1992 ... And the only international wins it ever amounted to was a World Championship in 1996 after being beaten at US Nationals by a poor relatively old semi-retired guy from a trailer park in East San Jose that was coached by his sister :rolleyes:

Loved it! When Rudy Galindo beat him in '96 & Michael Weiss in '98, El just had to be in shock! Both had great performances; MW with a 2-Footed Quad Lutz and Rudy just outskating Todd to Swan Lake! It had Buttons poppin' his he was so excited with an eggbeater spin at the end of Galindo's performance! :rolleyes::plush::respec::summer:
 
I totally agree with what you say, but it was Todd's 3rd Olympics in 2002 because the USFSA had been playing favorites with him since at least 1992 ... And the only international wins it ever amounted to was a World Championship in 1996 after being beaten at US Nationals by a poor relatively old semi-retired guy from a trailer park in East San Jose that was coached by his sister :rolleyes:
Well, the Gold Medal in 1996 wasn't the only medal he won at the Worlds Championships. Todd won Silver in 1995, Silver in 1997, Silver in 1998, and Bronze in 2001.

As for Nationals, Todd placed 4th (Pewter) in 1994, won Gold in 1995, won Silver in 1996, won Gold in 1997, won Gold in 1998, won Silver in 2001 and Gold in 2002.
 
Todd won Silver in 1995, Silver in 1997, Silver in 1998, and Bronze in 2001.

Those are not wins. Those are "I had all the support of US Figure Skating, and all I got was this consolation prize."

As for Nationals, Todd placed 4th (Pewter) in 1994, won Gold in 1995, won Silver in 1996, won Gold in 1997, won Gold in 1998, won Silver in 2001 and Gold in 2002.

That's not impressive at all, given how much US Figure Skating loved him.

With all that support, Todd never did a single thing to progress the sport.
 
Well, the Gold Medal in 1996 wasn't the only medal he won at the Worlds Championships. Todd won Silver in 1995, Silver in 1997, Silver in 1998, and Bronze in 2001.

As for Nationals, Todd placed 4th (Pewter) in 1994, won Gold in 1995, won Silver in 1996, won Gold in 1997, won Gold in 1998, won Silver in 2001 and Gold in 2002.

I think Todd had a chance to do 4 Olympics, but only went to 3 IIRC! Something must have happened in '94; maybe injury and he wasn't selected! With Lillehammer coming up, the pros were allowed to come back! Todd probably would have been knocked off by either Scott Davis or Brian Boitano at Nationals! That Silver in '98 was a gift with Evgeny Plushenko leading after the SP! He was determined to complete his quads and trying them twice in the LP, hooked his skate dragging him to the ground! He ended up falling to 4 in the LP, taking Bronze and allowing Eldridge that Silver medal! The was probably one of the last times that happened to Plushy! :rolleyes::COP::duh::plush::revenge:
 
Last edited:
Those are not wins. Those are "I had all the support of US Figure Skating, and all I got was this consolation prize."



That's not impressive at all, given how much US Figure Skating loved him.

With all that support, Todd never did a single thing to progress the sport.
Well, I was just stating the facts and that's how it went down in history. I'm afraid no matter how it's looked upon, the historical facts won't be changed. :)
 
Well, I was just stating the facts and that's how it went down in history. I'm afraid no matter how it's looked upon, the historical facts won't be changed. :)

They don't need to, and I am certain Todd feels like he deserves everything he ever got when he looks at himself in the mirror.
 
Last edited:
I just rewatched the 1994 Nationals LPs of Davis, Boitano, and Eldredge. There was no reason why Eldredge did not make the 1994 Olympic Team except he choked on the 3A-3T, which was the premiere jump combination at the time and typically for Eldredge. Eldredge could have easily earned his spot against two other equally loved US skaters in a fair contest, but didn't.
 
Last edited:
I just rewatched the 1994 Nationals LPs of Davis, Boitano, and Eldredge. There was no reason why Eldredge did not make the 1994 Olympic Team except he choked on the 3A-3T, which was the premiere jump combination at the time and typically for Eldredge. Eldredge could have easily earned his spot against two other equally loved US skaters in a fair contest, but didn't.

I never watched Nat'ls! I so objected to the pros being allowed to come back; esp. Torvill & Dean in Britain! They had their time 10 years before for Gawd-sake! The only reason I watched Lillehammer was because of Nancy & Tanya of course! Wound up enjoying Urmanov beating Elvis and old lady Katarina Witt embarrassing herself! :rolleyes: :kickass: :revenge: :yikes:
 
I never watched Nat'ls! I so objected to the pros being allowed to come back; esp. Torvill & Dean in Britain! They had their time 10 years before for Gawd-sake!

I thought it was more pathetic that the US men had not progressed at all since Boitano as of 1994 :rolleyes: ... Tonya could have been 4th in the men's event at 1994 Nationals.
 
Loved it! When Rudy Galindo beat him in '96 & Michael Weiss in '98, El just had to be in shock! Both had great performances; MW with a 2-Footed Quad Lutz and Rudy just outskating Todd to Swan Lake! It had Buttons poppin' his he was so excited with an eggbeater spin at the end of Galindo's performance! :rolleyes::plush::respec::summer:

Nope Todd Eldredge was not in shock at being beaten. He was sportsmanlike toward his competitors, because that's the kind of upstanding person he is and was. In fact, when Rudy Galindo won, Eldredge was shown on camera back stage smiling in genuine admiration at the standing ovation Galindo received. Todd was cheering right along with the audience for Galindo's achievement, even though it meant he himself had lost out on defending his U.S. National championship. Furthermore, Eldredge was inspired by Galindo's win. It spurred Eldredge on to win Worlds, instead of making him feel down about losing to Galindo.

One of the best moments for me in the history of the sport is when after winning the 1996 World championships, Eldredge skated over to his parents at rinkside after the medal ceremony and placed his gold medal around his mother's neck and gave her a hug. She was overcome with tears. What a great moment and a special way to acknowledge all of his mother's (and both of his parents') many sacrifices, support, and belief in him over the years.

I had the honor of meeting Todd Eldredge in person once at an event after-party, so I know up close and personal what a kind and genuine human being he is. I found him to be a perfect gentleman, and it was a very memorable experience talking to him, which I have never forgotten. Please stop hating on Todd Eldredge and his contributions to the sport.


Todd never did a single thing to progress the sport.

I am certain Todd feels like he deserves everything he ever got when he looks at himself in the mirror.

@bardtoob, you are not doing and have never done a single thing to progress the sport. What is it you really don't like about Todd Eldredge? It's one thing if you don't like his skating, but please stop making blanket statements and unfair slams and acting like you know something about Eldredge's personal thoughts.
 
Last edited:
@bardtoob, you are not doing and have never done a single thing to progress the sport.

For your information ... I know that :p

What is it you really don't like about Todd Eldredge? It's one thing if you don't like his skating, but please stop making blanket statements and unfair slams and acting like you know something about Eldredge's personal thoughts.

I thought I was clear. Todd was the recipient of a lot of favoritism, which I found annoying starting in 1992 with the nomination to the Olympic Team after not skating at Nationals.

As far as Todd's skating goes, he was good. He had good compulsory figures. He had good jumps.

I did not like that he did not take more risks athletically because he had talent to spare. It never sat well with me that he liked taking on roles where he was the soldier or knight or conquistador but was hardly ever gutsy. I will note he was gutsy in the 1996 Worlds LP, but then he knew playing it safe was not going to result in a win after Nationals.
 
Last edited:
Todd was very classy given the number of times he was robbed by judging. I made a list in another thread:

95 worlds. Should have won over Stojko
97 worlds. Should have won due to winning the short program.
96-97 Grand Prix final. Should have won over Stojko.
97-98 Grand Prix final. Should have been 2nd over Stojko.
2001 worlds. Should have won silver over an error ridden and subpar Yagudin.

He never once whined or complained about bad judging, especialy given the number of times he was robbed, unlike people like Stojko, Sale & Pelletier, Slutskaya, Kwan, Medvedeva, Virtue & Moir, who frequently benefitted from questionable judging yet still have the gall to complain about how they are judged often.
 
bardtoob said:
Todd never did a single thing to progress the sport.

For several years, Todd among several other figure skaters donated their time and effort by skating in several skating events that supported the Michael Weiss Foundation. The Michael Weiss Foundation gives scholarships to help figure skaters. Some of the figure skaters that received those scholarships were Mirai Nagasu, Daisuke Murakami, Christine Zukowski, and Madison and Keiffer Hubbell.

Todd has also played golf on several occasions at the Jimmy V Celebrity Golf Classics which includes their Gala auction that raises money for cancer awareness and research.

That made me even more a fan of Todd's because of him participating for such a worthy cause. I have prayed every day of my life since my mom passed away of Ovarian Cancer back in 1987 that there will be a cure for Cancer.
 
I have prayed every day of my life since my mom passed away of Ovarian Cancer back in 1987 that there will be a cure for Cancer.

I'm sorry you lost your mother, and how. I am always on board with using my skills for that cause.
 
Last edited:
Loved it! When Rudy Galindo beat him in '96 & Michael Weiss in '98, El just had to be in shock! Both had great performances; MW with a 2-Footed Quad Lutz and Rudy just outskating Todd to Swan Lake! It had Buttons poppin' his he was so excited with an eggbeater spin at the end of Galindo's performance! :rolleyes::plush::respec::summer:
 
Where did Michael beat Todd in 98?

As far as I'm concerned Michael beat Todd at '98 Nationals! Just because the judges are a bunch a corrupt hacks didn't change that for me! This was an Olympic year and they "chose" Todd regardless of the performances! It was criminal, but it's sorta the norm here and elsewhere! :rolleyes: :COP: :drama: :kickass: :plush:
 
Back
Do Not Sell My Personal Information