Frank Carroll has officially retired.

aftershocks

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Whoa, such a handsome young fellow. In this photo, Frank reminds me of the young Tab Hunter, and somewhat of the young Troy Donahue. Wow, what a bygone era the 1950s is. U.S. figure skating was king in those years. And the sport was still in it's infancy. It was still the days of newsreels. Regular television broadcasts of figure skating events did not begin until the early 1960s.

And then, we can not escape the Sabena airline crash tragedy which sliced through the heart of U.S. figure skating and left an indelible impact on the sport. The loss of so many skaters and coaches changed the sport forever. It actually led to the beginning of globalization of the sport. But it happened gradually, and no such term was used back then to describe the changes. It's impossible to fully grasp what's happening in the midst of earth-shattering events and aftermath years.

The loss of the inimitable Maribel Vinson Owen and her daughters, along with so many other coaches, skaters and their family members is incalculable. But particularly Vinson Owen, because her importance to the development of figure skating in the United States is immeasurable. And sadly her contributions are not even fully understood or well-documented, perhaps partly because of her tragic and sudden passing. Therefore, Frank's importance as one of Vinson Owen's students takes on huge significance, that once again is rarely understood or fully recognized. And this is largely due to the fact that the history of the sport is so complex, intricately vast, and kept track of in such a disparate and incomplete fashion.

I believe Vinson Owen's loss and the loss of those who died with her was so enormous and emotionally devastating during a time when media was in its infancy that it was extremely difficult for those who knew them and who lived through it to even talk about. I do not think that any of the grieving survivors ever fully recovered from the losses. It was too huge and at the time, there was apparently no effective social mechanism available for sharing their grief, much less understanding the huge impact of the loss on the sport itself. That has only come slowly with time and distance. But even then, it's not documented or discussed in a way that connects the past with the present, which I think is crucial for any sport, and especially for figure skating. Culturally back then, it was seemingly felt that you just continued on with a stiff upper lip as the best way to move forward and lay the dead to rest.

I suspect that Frank Carroll's modest, understated and stern persona hides a very emotional side that he prefers to keep under control at all times. Likely his students have glimpsed that side of him. Perhaps partly the loss of Vinson Owen is what led Frank to dedicate himself fully to a coaching career. There have been stories of him holding onto a cross at rinkside (in remembrance of Vinson Owen) while watching his top skaters perform, particularly Evan at 2010 Olympics.
 
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aftershocks

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After writing the above, I went online to research the connection between Frank Carroll and his mentor, Maribel Vinson Owen, and I found this excellently written report about the 1961 U.S. figure skating team. Wow, I missed this when it was written apparently in 2011 after the 1961 team was inducted nto the U.S. Figure Skating Hall of Fame (fifty years after the plane crash tragedy). This is excellent reporting. Scroll down to the section on Evan Lysacek, Frank Carroll and Maribel Vinson Owen: http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=110215/skatingcrash

I think this brief profile gives some insight into Frank's personality and it exemplifies what drove him as a coach. I believe his best students: Linda Fratianne, Michelle Kwan, Evan Lysacek, and Denis Ten truly understood Frank, and he understood them. Especially Michelle and Frank seemed to understand each other without even saying a word. Sometimes during interviews they would complete each other's sentences. I'm thinking especially of the 1998 World Pro Championships, which was a highlight of their prestigious partnership.

No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes in the public eye. But it's quite clear that Frank Carroll contributed a great deal to the sport that should not be lightly dismissed or errantly judged. He was a stern taskmaster, just as was his coach and mentor, Maribel Vinson Owen. As you can see from the linked report (and from the article in The New York Times about Vinson Owen in February of this year), Frank learned from a master of the sport who brooked no nonsense. While times have changed, the core principles of personal discipline, personal responsibility, exhaustive practice, and dedication to high aspirations that Frank has passed down from his mentor should be heeded, not shrugged off and misunderstood. Above all, reading about the people the sport lost during a time when the sport and the culture were still very young, I particularly begin to understand the difficult concept of bucking up and getting on with it, when the going gets tough. That's a hard concept to grasp much less to apply during this current era of instant gratification, soundbite throwaway culture, faux reality, and of-the-moment wandering in the wilderness without any understanding of nor connection to the past.

Hopefully, Frank will be able to find the time to write a book. We've already lost so many important skating pioneers in recent years: Toller Cranston, Ellen Burka, Ludmilla Belousova Protopopov, et al. When Frank Carroll, Dick Button, John Nicks, Peggy Fleming, and other venerable greats are gone, what will we have left if we haven't learned nor understood what they have to offer? It's important to realize, recognize and celebrate the significance of how their lives in the sport connect the skating community to the past, which in turn helps us build the future.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/21/...-first-female-sportswriter-for-the-times.html
 
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Foolhardy Ham Lint

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He was a very kind and considerate man, and always the best dressed in skating. The only thing I didnt like about him was his outspoken bias towards his own skaters, but then again in another sense it would be nice for any skater to have a coach so deeply behind them as he was his own.

Conversely in an interview with Caryn Kadavy, she said that Carlo Fassi would sometimes praise her rivals or teammates, much to her detriment. Later, she rethought what he did, as a possible way of actually motivating her to do better.
 

savchenkoboss

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Conversely in an interview with Caryn Kadavy, she said that Carlo Fassi would sometimes praise her rivals or teammates, much to her detriment. Later, she rethought what he did, as a possible way of actually motivating her to do better.

That is interesting. It seems Carlo had a good strategy for motivating Caryn, she just didnt see it early enough.
 
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SmallFairy

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Thank you for your long posts @aftershocks Frank is indeed our (the figure skating world, not just the US) link back to Maribel Vinson Owen and her legacy that cannot be underestimated. Is Bebe coaching? Someone should indeed bring that on to the next generation. Not Evan, not Kwan it seams... I was sure Denis would do it, but now...:(
 

MrMystery

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Well I’m sure many here have called him an old goat, but with 1OGM, 2OSM, 2OBM, 7WC, 7WSM and 7WBM (maybe?) he’s arguably the US born coach to US skaters GOAT.

I agree. Regarding of your thoughts on Frank, one way or another, he's likely the GOAT in terms of the coaching of singles skaters in the U.S., of a U.S. (or perhaps not even) born coach. His record, and how well respected he is, speaks for itself.
 

VGThuy

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And one thing about Frank that I don't think people give him enough credit for is that he was able to adapt and stay relevant from the late 1970s to 2018. Not many of the big named coaches were able to do that.
 

antmanb

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And one thing about Frank that I don't think people give him enough credit for is that he was able to adapt and stay relevant from the late 1970s to 2018. Not many of the big named coaches were able to do that.

I was trying to think of any other coaches that might fall into this category, and other than John Nicks, Moskvina and Mishin (though arguably he wasn't having top international success with skaters as early as Frank) i'm struggling to think of many. Carlo Fassi falls into the same category but being older and dying fairly young means his successes began in the late 60s and early 70s.

Big props to Frank I don't think i'd want to be working even part time by the time i'm 80 :lol:
 

bardtoob

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Frank's first National Medalist, Robert Bradshaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WPFdSN3Ynk

The program is a little pedestrian by today's standards, but he had top notch skating skills, interesting field moves, and his jump technique is textbook that included two triples. Apparently he is the first figure skater to successfully perform a double axel jump initiated and performed with the arms folded in competition, which can be seen here.

You can tell Frank is by the boards at the far end of the rink because of his signature clap after elements.
 
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antmanb

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Frank trained WCs in 3 different systems (Linda/figures, Michelle/6.0, Evan/njs). Not to take away from great coaches like nicks and moskvina but Pairs didn’t compete figures.

I hadn't really thought about the fact that pairs didn't compete figures. Presumably pairs skaters would have trained figures up to a certain point.

Does anyone remember if there was a point where if you were a good free skater but not great at figures whether you were encouraged to take up pairs as an alternative?
 

oliver

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That Robert Bradshaw program was 5:10 minutes. When did the men's free change to 4:30 minutes?
 

giselle23

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Frank wasn't the coach for every skater but he will always be remembered for his long coaching relationship with Michelle Kwan. He took her on as a child, when she was unpolished and her future greatness was not apparent. He coached her to four World titles and an Olympic silver medal. Like many, I wish Michelle had stayed with him through the 2002 Olympics.
The USFSA should have staged an intervention when she said she wanted to go it alone (or worse, with Danny)! I think Frank would have noticed the problem she was having with her flip. She lands that flip in the long program and she is an Olympic gold medalist.
 

VGThuy

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Frank wasn't the coach for every skater but he will always be remembered for his long coaching relationship with Michelle Kwan. He took her on as a child, when she was unpolished and her future greatness was not apparent. He coached her to four World titles and an Olympic silver medal. Like many, I wish Michelle had stayed with him through the 2002 Olympics.
The USFSA should have staged an intervention when she said she wanted to go it alone (or worse, with Danny)! I think Frank would have noticed the problem she was having with her flip. She lands that flip in the long program and she is an Olympic gold medalist.

I think it was so cute when I think it was either TSL or Manleywoman who asked if he knew when she started learning from him at the beginning that she'd become the skater and legend she'd end up becoming, Frank said "yes, absolutely" without hesitation. He then went on about he could recognize right away the depth of talent and ability Michelle Kwan had.
 

livetoskate

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Thank you for your long posts @aftershocks Frank is indeed our (the figure skating world, not just the US) link back to Maribel Vinson Owen and her legacy that cannot be underestimated. Is Bebe coaching? Someone should indeed bring that on to the next generation. Not Evan, not Kwan it seams... I was sure Denis would do it, but now...:(

Yes, it looks like Bebe Liang is coaching. From her Instagram posts, it also looks like she was or is involved in a dance team and theatrical ice performances. She was a really exciting skater so it's nice to see she's still involved in skating.
 

livetoskate

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Following up with the theme of Frank Carroll's former students-- Jonathan Cassar, always one of my favorites at nationals even though he didn't medal, is coaching and working as a choreographer at the Icetown rink in Carlsbad, CA. He's appeared in several of Dice Murakami's youtube videos. In one of them, he's shown getting drive through coffee and opening up the rink while it's still dark. Both Jonathan and Dice had/have such an elegant way of skating with attention to details. If I were in the area, I'd want to take lessons w/them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k6BrkZlGk8
 

livetoskate

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Just thought of a couple other skaters Frank Carroll coached in the past-- Johnathan Barksdale and Danielle Kahle. JJ had huge jumps. He coached for a while at one of the rinks I skated at, and last I heard he'd moved to Arizona. Danielle was always exciting to watch too; she was one of the up and coming skaters when Kimmie Meissner was competing. Too bad she didn't hit it big. And Yebin Mok, a beautiful skater who could do a true triple lutz. I wonder what they are doing now?
 

aftershocks

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That Robert Bradshaw program was 5:10 minutes. When did the men's free change to 4:30 minutes?

I couldn't find out from a brief check online, but someone surely knows. You could call the U.S. Figure Skating Hall of Fame. Perhaps @N_Halifax has a bead on the answer. :)

Wiki discusses free skating, but I don't see any reference to when the men's fp was changed to 4min 30sec. The fp rules changes that occurred in 1982 and 1984 are interesting. I don't recall those revisions, but figure skating was so much more difficult to follow and understand back then.

Frank's first National Medalist, Robert Bradshaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WPFdSN3Ynk

The program is a little pedestrian by today's standards, but he had top notch skating skills, interesting field moves, and his jump technique is textbook that included two triples. Apparently he is the first figure skater to successfully perform a double axel jump initiated and performed with the arms folded in competition, which can be seen here.

You can tell Frank is by the boards at the far end of the rink because of his signature clap after elements.


Thanks for posting this clip @bardtoob! It's interesting how the clip had been uploaded to Youtube in January of this year by Bradshaw's son. I wonder what the back story is. Bradshaw certainly gave a clinic on blade skills, edge work, and jump technique. This is also a great demonstration of the freedom from specific requirements that skaters had back then for their fps, which led to the specific requirements rules changes in the 1980s.

I didn't see Frank by the boards. I'll have to look again. Too bad we don't get to see a better close-up look at Frank with his first U.S. Nationals medalist.

Gordon McKellan won U.S. Nationals from 1973 to 1975 (and he placed third in 1971 and 1972 behind John Misha Petkevich and Ken Shelley both years -- Petkevich and Shelley flip-flopped in the standings those two years). I couldn't find McKellan's winning performance from 1973, but here's his 1972 U.S. Nats fp (third place):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK44E1W03o In that era, everyone built to Nationals without skating at many competitions throughout the rest of the season, because there weren't as many.

Here's a nice video of Gary Visconti (1967 U.S. champion & 1968 U.S. silver medalist) skating at the 1968 Olympics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QaAi0ad9CU Dick Button says he's an excellent spinner

It's surreal looking back at what a feat it was considered for these guys to land triple jumps. In one video I was looking at from 1972 Worlds, Dick said John Misha Petkevich was going to attempt a triple lutz (which hadn't been landed in 10 years at that time), but Petkevich ended up doing a double lutz. Petkevich never managed to win a World medal, though he came close. During his prime, JMP competed in the shadow of Tim Wood who was a 3-time U.S. champion, a two time World champion, and the 1968 Olympic silver medalist.
 
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aftershocks

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Here's an excellent skate from 1978 ... And look who is standing with the skater during the marks.

https://youtu.be/03En644TWwI

Ah, so Frank Carroll coached a Japanese skater in the late 1970s, well before Murakami. Wow, Japanese skating history. I never recall hearing of Fumio Igarashi. He was very good and very entertaining. I wonder what his placements at Worlds ended up being in those days. The clip you posted is from Skate Canada 1978.

Frank looks so young and so handsome. He deserved more success at the Olympics with both Linda and Michelle.


Here's U.S. skater Charlie Tickner winning Worlds in 1978: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNImLRliFU
 
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