The Skating Lesson

[happycamper2554]

Ah well, the latest episode has some entertaining moments as usual. I'm glad someone pointed out how the first 13+ minutes is nothing about figure skating, so I could scroll forward and skip the distractions.

Aside from the random and offensive comment about the late great Anthony Bourdain, which Dave bafflingly referenced as a text from a friend, everything else was interesting except for my Jonathan-weary-itis, plus a few dead spots and rambling. I do agree with quite a bit of Dave's views on many of the new ISU rules changes. And I agree about needing to see more unpredictability in program moves and layouts. Also, I hadn't yet heard the gossip about Bradie, supposedly moving to a new coach. So that's another newsworthy tidbit, if true. There was also an interesting rundown on the possible impact of the Gadbois camp additions, and an apologetic-like return to sucking up to diva Alexa, now that she's been Aliona-inspired and re-energized.

I am here for Alexa returning to her sassy self. Dave better start groveling. I hope she (they) make him apologize for a long time before they even think about granting him another interview. He's talked crap about them for a while. I do agree with him about her seeming more confident though.

 

[aftershocks]

^^

Actually, there are some very interesting things Dave says regarding the rules changes that I agree with. He actually expresses himself quite well regarding not liking the +5 GOE change and the elimination of 30 seconds from men's programs. ITA with his impassioned points. It's true that removing 30 seconds from men's programs is not going to exactly solve the problem of lengthy competitions. The culprit is the time needed for Zamboni breaks, the unnecessary skater introductions prior to top skater warm-up sessions, and as Dave notes, the endless judging/ kiss 'n cry time. Dave accurately observes that with the new +5 GOE changes, "Judging [already] takes too long. Now it will take even longer..."

If not for Dave's snark and negative rep in some quarters which has become a turn-off, Dave maybe could be quite the influencer. What he says regarding some of these rules changes (especially for the men) to me should have been a presentation front-and-center at the recent ISU Congress. Although of course ISU reps and officials only tend to listen to what they want to hear.

Dave's comments re the above begin about the mid point in the broadcast 41+ or so. I absolutely love Dave's way of expressing some of what we are missing these days in skating and what we need to get back to for more complete and exciting programs. Dave mentions Paul Wylie spread eagles, Michelle Kwan change-edge spiral, Kurt Browning's iconic cigarette riff during his Casablanca performance which added so much to the program's character and flair. I would add, Brian Boitano's Sandra Bezic-choreographed sp during which he whisks ice from one of his blades and flicks it over his shoulder. And John Misha Petkevich's gorgeous delayed axels.

Per Dave: "It's like buying Prisma color markers instead of regular markers, because you can! I want to see skating breath... expansive skating, good stroking... I don't care about the loss of seeing men do a 2-axel, but yes to seeing three Russian split jumps in a row..."

The gossip about Jeremy Allen now likely becoming Bradie Tennell's "more primary coach," and that he will also be working "four hours a day with Alexa & Chris when Aliona is out of town," add to this episode's hungry off-season tasty morsels -- although for sure as yet to be confirmed.

 

[happycamper2554]

https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1008744775116316673

Chris Knierim calling out TSL. I would assume that this means they are not working with Jeremey Allen, but who knows. I'm here for sassy Alexa and Sassy Chris. They can come out any day.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Chris Knierim calling out TSL. I would assume that this means they are not working with Jeremey Allen, but who knows. I'm here for sassy Alexa and Sassy Chris. They can come out any day.

 

[el henry]

https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1008744775116316673

Chris Knierim calling out TSL. I would assume that this means they are not working with Jeremey Allen, but who knows. I'm here for sassy Alexa and Sassy Chris. They can come out any day.

Is it possible for me to love Chris Knierim any more, that GIF he used to diss the TSL non-information? I don't think so.

And then the TSL sycophants muddling up the timeline with "But you can't land SBS jumps". Like, whaaaat???? And that has to do with Chris' tweet in what universe?

You go, boy!

 

[tony]

And then the TSL sycophants muddling up the timeline with "But you can't land SBS jumps". Like, whaaaat???? And that has to do with Chris' tweet in what universe?

Yeah, those jump comments are really out of place and stupid. If anything, I give them credit for making such a drastic move to try and fix said problems. And I like that more and more skaters have no problem with going after the haters.

 

[happycamper2554]

Yeah, those jump comments are really out of place and stupid. If anything, I give them credit for making such a drastic move to try and fix said problems. And I like that more and more skaters have no problem with going after the haters.

I'm sure he's well aware of what's actually happening because he lives it. Of course, Dave's Minions are going to take a low blow, That's what their leader would do. But you know Dave would have them back on in heartbeat and then his fans would tell them how great they are and how they are going to save U.S. pairs.

 

[Cleo1782]

https://twitter.com/ChrisKnierim/status/1008744775116316673

Chris Knierim calling out TSL. I would assume that this means they are not working with Jeremey Allen, but who knows. I'm here for sassy Alexa and Sassy Chris. They can come out any day.

I guess I am the only one who find twitter fights annoying. While I think Alexa and Chris are right, it just seems pointless to feed into TSL or Phil Hersh. I think Dave probably loves the fact that Chris even heard about TSL and what was said.
Although when I mentioned my annoyance to someone that is heavily involved in skating, they said they thought Chris and Alexa were right to clap back. No one but the athletes know how much time and effort it takes, so obviously I am in the minority.
It just comes off petty to me....I would leave it alone personally.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Right, that's not a wrong judgment on your part @Cleo1782, because that's what you know works for you. I think it depends upon the circumstances. In this instance, Dave has done a lot of unnecessary calling out of Alexa & Chris, in a harsh snark-filled manner. Dave just can't seem to help himself in that regard. His snarkfests and rants have been directed against a number of skaters at different moments over the years.

It was in a recent TSL broadcast that Dave was rather vicious toward Alexa chiefly re her online demeanor and toward both A&C generally regarding their troubles experienced at Worlds and Olympics. There is probably a special place in hell for those who enjoy piling on athletes when they are down. Of course as fans we all criticize and we all have our favorites, etc., but Dave too often takes harsh over-criticism to the extreme of personal pettiness. I try never to personalize my critiques, but to always keep it about what moves or doesn't move me about skaters' performances and their overall skills and areas where they need improvement.

Long story short, Dave was too negative and spiteful in his comments against Alexa especially. And now that A&C are training with Aliona, Dave seems to be trying to change his tune all of a sudden. Whereas before he was castigating them and making pronouncements about their career prospects, now he seems interested in sidling back toward being a huge fan of diva Alexa again. Dave is always name-dropping and wink-winking about what he knows. I think it's cool that Chris set Dave straight that he doesn't really know what he thinks he knows. It also serves as a slap-back message against Dave's petty nastiness. It was not overdone on Chris' part. It was a humorous, subtle yet well-targeted slap-back.

I'm sure Alexa & Chris are too busy working hard to bother wasting their energy on any kind of sustained and unnecessary Twitter fighting. But the well-aimed slap-back with perfect gif is always apropos. @skatemoivo (MTran) and GGold are quite good at the subtle, and not-so-subtle, humorous Twitter tweaks as well. And I loves me some AdaRipp and some Charlie White setting things straight and telling it like it is, without losing a beat! No sweat!

ETA:
In the comments section below Chris' tweet, this reply to a whining fan concerned about A&C working hard to land their jumps, is also hilarious:
ChrisKnierim
You’re a fan obviously. We are working hard don’t you worry. Fortunately for me I have breaks in the day to do things like eat, sleep, brush my teeth and tweet.
[Chris' above tweet was accompanied by a gif of a cat doing rolling backflips Alexa is a cat-lover ]

 

[berthesghost]

^ the proof of the pudding is in the tasting and Chris has already taken time out of his “busy” day to clap back at a commenter who thought he should perhaps spend less time tweet fighting and more time training SBS jumps. He may not have a lot of free time but apparently what he likes to do with his free time is yell at randoms on Twitter like an old guy after a ball landed in his yard

He should save his energy for more important stuff, like blaming his poor results on his boots

 

[Cleo1782]

Re: Dave and Alexa-they have had a long standing issue. Like an openly bad fight in public at Nationals some years ago so I think it will always be a bias/weird issue between them. Dave's 'job' is to take jabs at people via TSL apparently. If I were Alexa and Chris I would just ignore it. They are just fanning the flames. But we are all only human. Although I am actually not a huge Alexa and Chris fan, no one knows the pressure they have been under being the only team at the Olympics and being the only team to qualify for the long at Worlds.
Listen, Dave said Zhang and Bartholomay weren't good enough to win Easterns the year they went to the Olympics! They may or may not have heard it, but if they did they sure got the last laugh hope Chris and Alexa do as well.

 

[bardtoob]

And then the TSL sycophants muddling up the timeline with "But you can't land SBS jumps". Like, whaaaat???? And that has to do with Chris' tweet in what universe?

Yeah, that is like me saying David Lease only has one move

 

[Cleo1782]

Is it possible for me to love Chris Knierim any more, that GIF he used to diss the TSL non-information? I don't think so.

And then the TSL sycophants muddling up the timeline with "But you can't land SBS jumps". Like, whaaaat???? And that has to do with Chris' tweet in what universe?

You go, boy!

While I guess it's 'inappropriate' in regards to that tweet, but I doubt it's just TSL sycophants saying they can't land sbs jumps. Just people with eyes because they haven't in a long, long time.

 

[GullyGirl84]

I don't have a problem with skaters pointing out that TSL's reporting on certain coaching situations is not accurate (that said, TSL has built a base of "sources"...whether it be actual skaters/coaches at this point, or just skating moms or novice skaters who are eager to dish the dirt to them based on what they see going on at certain rinks...that I'm usually more apt to believe them than not when it comes to what they say about coaching moves, etc.).

Yes, some of the additional comments ("whatever video blog they have going on"), etc. did seem petty. But there have been lots of skaters in the past like Alexa/Chris, Mirai, Ashley, Gracie, etc., who have still gone on TSL and been willing to call out/acknowledge things that Dave has said about them on their show, and didn't take it personally enough that they weren't willing to still go on the show and have some fun about it. It seems like a lot of relationships with skaters and coaches have soured for more personal/behind the scenes reasons than just that the skaters and coaches thought TSL was being unfair. I think that Dave tweeted that they were working on more interviews, so I'm interested to see who they get. I'm guessing it will be more skaters of the past/choreographers as opposed to current skaters.

edited to include-I'm sure there have been many skaters and coaches who have simply been pissed at TSL for them making a comment that is actual constructive criticism. But Dave's assertion has always seemed to be that people in the figure skating community act like delicate flowers, and that he is trying to treat it seriously and elevate it to a level of critique that you find in other sports. That may be true, but it's also true that TSL gets really into Dave's own issues with skaters' personalities/his deconstructions of their "psychology", etc., and he seems to get off on that more so than the actual sport and it gets tired.

 

[el henry]

While I guess it's 'inappropriate' in regards to that tweet, but I doubt it's just TSL sycophants saying they can't land sbs jumps. Just people with eyes because they haven't in a long, long time.

It’s just not inappropriate, it’s stupid. If the sycophants wanted to look themselves look bad, way to go guys, great job

And the “truth” of Alexa and Chris’ issue with jumps doesn’t save the tweeters in this thread. ETA: meaning the quoted tweet thread, not this one Jumping off from that,) this is my other issue with the TSL hangers-on, acting as though they and Dave are speaking truth to power with their “no crap, Sherlock” comments. Of course everyone is saying it, Alexa & Chris say it for heavens sake. It’s not some genius comment coming only from Dave. Oh well.....

 

[Cleo1782]

It’s just not inappropriate, it’s stupid. If the sycophants wanted to look themselves look bad, way to go guys, great job

And the “truth” of Alexa and Chris’ issue with jumps doesn’t save the tweeters in this thread. But even if another thread were started, that is my other issue with the TSL hangers-on, acting as though they and Dave are speaking truth to power with their “no crap, Sherlock” comments. Of course everyone is saying it, Alexa & Chris say it for heavens sake. It’s not some genius comment coming only from Dave. Oh well.....

Maybe my post wasn't clear. Comments to Chris's post about TSL regarding their sbs jump issues really don't make sense, but I guess I don't think TSL has this huge following or 'sycophants'-as you refer to them- stalking skaters on behalf on TSL. Dave didn't even make any comments regarding their sbs jumps recently. I am not defending Dave, but people commenting they can't land sbs jumps probably aren't just TSL hangers-on (if there even are more than 5 TSL hangers-on). Chris opened himself up to any and all comments when he posted that silly tweet, while Dave/TSL opens himself up to negative comments when he tweets or makes a podcast. How is it different? If Chris didn't want to see anything but positive tweets he would be delusional and should probably stay off twitter because no tweets are met with 100% positivity. This isn't TSL's fault.

 

[VGThuy]

But Chris's tweet and what he was talking about had nothing to do with SBS jumps. Chris just made a general comment that they were wrong about somethings they said. I don't think Chris was going to debate his and Alexa's success rate of landing SBS jumps. And yes, TSL does have serious defenders who take move to the offensive when someone says something critical or negative about TSL or any of the people associated with it.

 

[katmari]

When Mr. Crying in a Bathroom in Grenoble had his twitter meltdown over Kori and Rohene being "mean" to him, TSL sycophants harassed Jason Brown who wasn't even involved in the situation. He wasn't in Grenoble and hadn't posted anything on twitter about the matter. There was absolutely no reason or justification for the mean tweets he received. The sycophants went after him only because he was coached by Kori and had his programs choreographed by Rohene.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I think the main reason why I stopped watching TSL (after Kirk left) was that Lease treats skaters like his personal toy collection. By that, I mean he detaches himself from treating these athletes as living, breathing individuals with feelings and emotions.

Expecting people to live up to HIS expectations, with little understanding into what goes into their process, and punishing them on his channel for not meeting them, is pretty insensitive.

He's not the only one that does it (or is at least as public about it). But it leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, knowing that these athletes put themselves on the line, at the risk of judgement and criticism.

We should be applauding them for their risk - taking. Not, cutting them down for trying.

 

[Rock2]

IMHO you give power to TSL if you acknowledge or answer any of their comments.

What power does TSL have over the success or future of S-K/K? None. If you comment on their stuff you suggest TSL has some material impact on public opinion or your life. They don't. Gotta learn to just ignore it.

One note: in the comments after Chris' tweet, he tries to say he's reacting to something he heard TSL said, suggesting he doesn't watch TSL. Either he's watching TSL and doesn't want to admit it (my guess) or he's showing a lack of judgment by publicly commenting on hearsay. Not a great practice, in my mind.

 

[VGThuy]

I think maybe one clapback or two isn't so bad, especially if TSL says something absolutely egregious that you feel you cannot ignore. You may be admitting you're watching it though or at least were curious after somebody pointed something out to you and you decide to check that part of the video for yourself. However, if you're getting a reputation of responding to TSL and do it often enough, then you are giving TSL some power. Some times I get it's hard to resist talking back or responding when you hear something nasty said about you initially and you want to respond right away, especially if there are supporters praising TSL or cheering them on or whatever. But I also think if one takes a breath and take some time, then most of the time, they feel better and would be ready to move on and ignore it. I also get that some times you have to call out people because ignoring them has often lead that person or entity to continue their bad behavior as they are doing it unchecked and think they are empowered to say whatever they want without consequence, but some entities just aren't really worth it and you just keep doing you and let the skating and results speak for themselves. Plus, if you're skating in a way where you get a fanbase and good results, then nothing TSL really does can really harm you unless they defame you in some way that seriously does hurt your reputation.

 

[Marco]

I try very hard to keep accepting TSL because I want to appreciate any effort to promote the sport. But I am giving up based on the following reasons:

1. Jenny's departure

2. Dave mocking Jenny about her departure and her new show

3. The shows are way too long now but a large chunk of it is not skating related, and the show lacks structure and flow

4. Not enough technical insight/analysis since Jenny left, a lot of it is just discussion of skating politics and personal preference/fan perspective

5. The snarky fun that Dave and Jenny used to have on the show has (I want to say consciously) turned into bitchiness

6. No more interviews

I will miss the insights that Jonathan and La give occasionally. Alas I think the style and genre of the show is now best summed up by its opening scene.

 

[aftershocks]

While I guess it's 'inappropriate' in regards to that tweet, but I doubt it's just TSL sycophants saying they can't land sbs jumps. Just people with eyes because they haven't in a long, long time.

Well, it's certainly true that the Knierims haven't been that consistent on sbs jumps. Few U. S. pairs skaters have been -- those who tend to be strongest on that element in the U.S. include: Kayne/O'Shea (great aside from recent difficulties related to injuries); Pfund/Santillan (problems recently due to injuries & lack of sufficient training time); Cain/LeDuc (a few problems re sophomore season in tackling more difficulty); Stellato/Barthomay (same issue as C/L); and Smith/Reiss (well-matched fast skaters and strong jumpers, but they need training & coaching stability, as well as a chance to gain more confidence and consistency under competition pressure -- that only comes from having opportunities to compete which are few and far between).

Regarding the Knierims, I have to point out that while it might seem like they haven't landed their sbs jumps cleanly in a long time, they actually did land their sbs jumps perfectly in the team competition at the Olympics in February. The Knierms' placement in the sp team comp was very instrumental for the U.S. team ultimately winning the bronze medal. In that sp portion, Alexa & Chris placed ahead of some accomplished pairs like Worlds bronze medalists James/Cipres, et al. How soon we forget.

I realize the Knierims have had many misfortunes before and since, but IMO that high point should not be overlooked.

ETA:

... in the comments after Chris' tweet, he tries to say he's reacting to something he heard TSL said, suggesting he doesn't watch TSL.

Everybody can and will have their opinion about Twitter responses to a negative dis or wrong info put out by TSL. Good points have been made on all sides of the issue. IMO, Chris' clapback was funny and well-targeted, not mean-spirited, like what we often get from Dave. But yeah, to each their own. I doubt Alexa & Chris are giving much bother to this by now. BTW, I also seriously doubt that Chris or Alexa watch TSL, but it's quite easy for skaters to hear gossip from those who do, some of it likely emanating from our discussions and summaries here on FSU.

Anyways, I thank Chris for setting the record straight on Dave's know-it-all chatter, in which Dave managed to both look down on and praise Bradie Tennell at the same time he dissed Chris on his jumping ability, and fawned over Alexa as if to somehow get back into her good graces. Ummm, uh yeah. But what else is new(s).

 

[Bellanca]

This and That: 2018 Grand Prix Assignments with Meagan Duhamel

 

[berthesghost]

I try very hard to keep accepting TSL because I want to appreciate any effort to promote the sport. But I am giving up based on the following reasons:

1. Jenny's departure

2. Dave mocking Jenny about her departure and her new show

3. The shows are way too long now but a large chunk of it is not skating related, and the show lacks structure and flow

4. Not enough technical insight/analysis since Jenny left, a lot of it is just discussion of skating politics and personal preference/fan perspective

5. The snarky fun that Dave and Jenny used to have on the show has (I want to say consciously) turned into bitchiness

6. No more interviews

I will miss the insights that Jonathan and La give occasionally. Alas I think the style and genre of the show is now best summed up by its opening scene.

I’m with you on everything up until #6. Did I miss something. Until just recently they were doing interviews. I rather enjoyed the linda Fratianne one! I also liked the guys they had on right after the Olys that gave tech reviews although I guess that isn’t an interview per se. it’s at its worst when it’s just them imho

 

[StitchMonkey]

I am surprised they did not talk more about Alex Krasnozhon and his getting two spots. Or maybe i missed it. I think deserved at least a "good for him" for getting two spots and I would have liked to hear their thoughts on where he fits in the pecking order. Granted he has some tough assignments, if he can score well and keep his head, he could be in the running for worlds this year.

 

[caseyedwards]

This and That: 2018 Grand Prix Assignments with Meagan Duhamel

The audio was so horrible!!!

 

[StitchMonkey]

The audio was so horrible!!!

yeah it was terrible. I kept my hand on the controls the whole time and kept having to move it up for Dave and down for Meghan. Parts were so bad that closed caption could not even attempt to make it out.

 

[annie720]

With Jonathan not there, Dave didn't go off on tangents which made it so much easier to listen to. Or if he tried to, Meagan didn't follow.

Yes, the audio was horrible and I finally gave up on it before listening to the end.

 

[shuilee]

I am surprised they did not talk more about Alex Krasnozhon and his getting two spots. Or maybe i missed it. I think deserved at least a "good for him" for getting two spots and I would have liked to hear their thoughts on where he fits in the pecking order. Granted he has some tough assignments, if he can score well and keep his head, he could be in the running for worlds this year.

Alexei Krasnozhon has been critical of Dave/TSL in the past....so I think he's another skater that's blacklisted by Dave. Not surprised there's no "good for him" comments.