Edited: Roseanne reboot - BOOTED

[clairecloutier]

Count me as one of those [trying] to hold their tongue.

 

[Badams]

Oh, good! Another American vs Canadian battle!


I think arrogant humans suck. I also think people who believe all stereotypes suck. No matter what country they were born in.

 

[allezfred]

But we are generally far less patriotic than Americans.

 

[Japanfan]

This is an interesting view of American society (in my inbox today, so timely)

https://eand.co/why-is-america-the-worlds-most-uniquely-cruel-society-f67afc5c6b9

 

[Japanfan]

If you think are patriotic, what evidence do you have of that? I'm not arguing with you, just interested.

Canadians did show a lot of patriotism during the 2010 Olympics I'll admit, but in my experience that is the exception to the norm. Probably patriotism is evident in other sports as well - we do take pride in our hockey - more so than in daily life.

 

[VGThuy]

That may be better in a thread critiquing the U.S. in PI.

 

[Japanfan]

Americans love saying that they're the best country in the world. Americans love their flag, they love their national anthem (which ends with the line we are discussing).

While this may be true for a lot of Americans, it's certainly not true of all IMO. Plenty of Americans have protested events in their country and continue to do so - the Resistance thread on PI is one example and the article I posted above (post 214) is another. Plenty of American are critical of their society.

Also, I think one of the reasons for those who are short-sighted in terms of believing that they are the best country in the world is that this view is constantly reinforced and some never question is. And let's face it, America is the most powerful nation on earth, so it would follow that some believe this also makes it the most important. When it comes to political machinations of the world, the US is arguably the most important country, or one of them. China and Russia are arguably equally important, but they don't have the cultural power and reach of the US.

I think that another reason is that Americans generally do not learn a whole lot about the world outside of America. When I travel to the US I'm always amazed to meet people who know virtually nothing about us. For example, they don't know the names of our three biggest cities. I suspect that Americans may not learn much about the rest of the world, as well. In contrast, I think you'd be a hard-pressed to find a Canadian who couldn't name 10 cities in the US.

 

[MsZem]

That may be better in a thread critiquing the U.S. in PI.

Unless they reboot the reboot with the rest of the cast, this thread really does seem to have run its course.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

I think that another reason is that Americans generally do not learn a whole lot about the world outside of America. When I travel to the US I'm always amazed to meet people who know virtually nothing about us. For example, they don't know the names of our three biggest cities. I suspect that Americans may not learn much about the rest of the world, as well. In contrast, I think you'd be a hard-pressed to find a Canadian who couldn't name 10 cities in the US.

 

[berthesghost]

I think that another reason is that Americans generally do not learn a whole lot about the world outside of America. When I travel to the US I'm always amazed to meet people who know virtually nothing about us. For example, they don't know the names of our three biggest cities. I suspect that Americans may not learn much about the rest of the world, as well. In contrast, I think you'd be a hard-pressed to find a Canadian who couldn't name 10 cities in the US.

OMG what exactly are you doing in the US that you find yourself fraternizing with complete morons?

 

[Japanfan]

OMG what exactly are you doing in the US that you find yourself fraternizing with complete morons?

The things that tourists do, such as hanging out in a hotel hot tub or chatting with people in a pub.

I remember one conversation I had with an American guy in a restaurant/pub. It was prior to a US presidential election, and he repeatedly asked me who was I going to vote for, and I had to repeatedly explain to him that I was not able to vote in US elections because I am not American.

 

[VGThuy]

In my many years posting on this forum, I do think it's true that Americans don't know much about Canada. We talked about that in my Political Geography class. My professor grew up in Canada even though he is American and some of my fellow classmates spoke about their experience with Canadians. The main crux I got from that conversation is that from their POVs, Canadians think about Americans and America a lot...but they also acknowledged that maybe it's because they were Americans so maybe the Canadians they befriended felt like they were sounding board to talk about all of their feelings about Americans and the U.S. My college was in the Southeast United States, and many people there never even visited north of Virginia, etc.

 

[ilovepaydays]

In my many years posting on this forum, I do think it's true that Americans don't know much about Canada. We talked about that in my Political Geography class. My professor grew up in Canada even though he is American and some of my fellow classmates spoke about their experience with Canadians. The main crux I got from that conversation is that from their POVs, Canadians think about Americans and America a lot...but they also acknowledged that maybe it's because they were Americans so maybe the Canadians they befriended felt like they were sounding board to talk about all of their feelings about Americans and the U.S. My college was in the Southeast United States, and many people there never even visited north of Virginia, etc.

I remember reading an article that talked about the surprisingly high % of Americans who have never left more than 50 miles from where they grew up. And it’s not just in rural areas, either. I work in DC and I have been amazed at the number of people who are born and raised in DC who have never really travelled outside of DC - not even to neighboring Virginia or Maryland counties. They talk about Fairfax County, VA like it’s for hicks.

 

[Japanfan]

The main crux I got from that conversation is that from their POVs, Canadians think about Americans and America a lot.

That applies to pretty much the entire world, although obviously less so in some places than others.

The political and cultural reach of the US is vast.

 

[once_upon]

I think some people think Canadians know more about the US based upon their own travels and experiences. Do people in rural Canada and less traveled know as much? Is the Canadian population smaller than the US population?

As for the population in the US who haven't traveled more than 50 miles from the area the live in, there are many factors to consider: poverty, inability to travel because of illness, caring for family vs taking vacations are just a few that I can think of.

 

[taf2002]

I grew up in a military family so it's hard for me to relate. I love geography including world geography & I love history including world history. Would I be as well informed if I hadn't grown up traveling around? I'll never know. Also I married a Canadian but it's not true that I couldn't name 10 Canadian cities prior to meeting him. Again, I don't know if that's a result of my childhood or my interest in the world. Either way you can't lump all Americans together on this or any other subject.

 

[PDilemma]

I think some people think Canadians know more about the US based upon their own travels and experiences. Do people in rural Canada and less traveled know as much? Is the Canadian population smaller than the US population?

As for the population in the US who haven't traveled more than 50 miles from the area the live in, there are many factors to consider: poverty, inability to travel because of illness, caring for family vs taking vacations are just a few that I can think of.

Lack of paid vacation for most people in this country--or a very small amount of it is an issue, too. My husband gets 10 days but has to use it in place of sick leave (they have none, but supervisors will typically approve it as vacation days so it is paid), for any bereavement except spouse, parent, parent-in-law or child, and for emergencies and personal matters (i.e. someone had to take the day off when our furnace died to be home for the repair person--he could get a vacation day and I only get paid on days I work, so he did it). That all usually leaves us with him having 2-3 days a year to use for actual "vacation".

The vastness of the U.S. contributes as well. If you live in the middle like we do, it is a long ways and a lot of money to actually leave the country. Most people I know have never been out of the country, not even to Mexico or Canada.

As for education in world geography, social studies is increasingly on the back burner in our schools. It is not STEM and it is not tested. English language arts survives not being STEM because of the reading components of standardized testing--although, standards and Common Core are beginning to lean toward more non-fiction and technical writing in place of literature. But social studies--geography, history, civics/government, etc...is being pushed aside. One local district only teaches it one day a week prior to middle school to make more time for math, reading and science instruction. The districts I work in do it three days a week at most prior to sixth grade. And on the secondary level, there is pressure to keep it easy--I was part of a conversation at a conference ten years ago with a group of 30 social studies teachers from around the country where it was unanimous that we had all had pressure from admins to keep the courses from being too rigorous as kids had too much pressure in "important" courses like higher math and science.

 

[ballettmaus]

As for education in world geography, social studies is increasingly on the back burner in our schools. It is not STEM and it is not tested. English language arts survives not being STEM because of the reading components of standardized testing--although, standards and Common Core are beginning to lean toward more non-fiction and technical writing in place of literature. But social studies--geography, history, civics/government, etc...is being pushed aside. One local district only teaches it one day a week prior to middle school to make more time for math, reading and science instruction. The districts I work in do it three days a week at most prior to sixth grade. And on the secondary level, there is pressure to keep it easy--I was part of a conversation at a conference ten years ago with a group of 30 social studies teachers from around the country where it was unanimous that we had all had pressure from admins to keep the courses from being too rigorous as kids had too much pressure in "important" courses like higher math and science.

This is depressing!

 

[Winnipeg]

Well, maybe some people are less interested in Geography than others?

I have a friend who has never left California and she is quite content. She actually lives at the same house she grew up in and where I used to know her when we attended the same high school. She did not know how far Winnipeg was from California when I mentioned she should "pop up" for a visit.

I once mentioned Winnipeg was the centre of Canada (tongue in cheek a bit ). The person reacted quite strongly (yes, the person was American but that was just a coincidence) and demanded how in the heck I could say such a thing!!!!! I responded through a geographical fact or piece of trivia which seemed to quell the fire.

 

[snoopy]

I was fortunate to travel overseas starting at a young age. Over my many years, whenever I would mention such and such a place, there is very often someone (American) who pops up with "Well, I'd rather visit all 50 states than going out of the country."

Great. Have fun in Kansas.

 

[VGThuy]

One thing I know about Kansas is that when a girl from my high school moved there for a year and came back for senior year, she told all of us that the guys were really hot there.

 

[taf2002]

Lack of paid vacation for most people in this country--or a very small amount of it is an issue, too. My husband gets 10 days but has to use it in place of sick leave (they have none, but supervisors will typically approve it as vacation days so it is paid), for any bereavement except spouse, parent, parent-in-law or child, and for emergencies and personal matters (i.e. someone had to take the day off when our furnace died to be home for the repair person--he could get a vacation day and I only get paid on days I work, so he did it). That all usually leaves us with him having 2-3 days a year to use for actual "vacation".

The vastness of the U.S. contributes as well. If you live in the middle like we do, it is a long ways and a lot of money to actually leave the country. Most people I know have never been out of the country, not even to Mexico or Canada.

As for education in world geography, social studies is increasingly on the back burner in our schools. It is not STEM and it is not tested. English language arts survives not being STEM because of the reading components of standardized testing--although, standards and Common Core are beginning to lean toward more non-fiction and technical writing in place of literature. But social studies--geography, history, civics/government, etc...is being pushed aside. One local district only teaches it one day a week prior to middle school to make more time for math, reading and science instruction. The districts I work in do it three days a week at most prior to sixth grade. And on the secondary level, there is pressure to keep it easy--I was part of a conversation at a conference ten years ago with a group of 30 social studies teachers from around the country where it was unanimous that we had all had pressure from admins to keep the courses from being too rigorous as kids had too much pressure in "important" courses like higher math and science.

I find this depressing too. How could I ace Jeopardy if I didn't know a lot of trivia?

j/k I actually had art & music in school as well as all the social sciences, & then in college I was (gasp) required to be well-rounded in my education. Today's kids are lucky in being allowed to be savages.

 

[VGThuy]

I wouldn't call them "lucky". I'd feel bad for students for missing out. I know when I was in elementary school, social studies was one of the classes the students looked most forward to because they got to learn a lot of interesting things. And social studies was one of the subjects I excelled at in school, so people like me would have suffered a bit.

 

[Erin]

I was fortunate to travel overseas starting at a young age. Over my many years, whenever I would mention such and such a place, there is very often someone (American) who pops up with "Well, I'd rather visit all 50 states than going out of the country."

Great. Have fun in Kansas.

I mostly find this amusing because I am literally going to Kansas (and Missouri) tomorrow as part of my quest to go to all 50 states. That said, I've also traveled to 30 different countries and have a quest to go all 10 Canadian provinces, although I admit to slacking on those lately. I figure there is nothing wrong with both seeing the world and also seeing as much as I can of the countries I live(d) in. I've enjoyed my trips to states that other people might not find that interesting (although I won't lie, I have some coming up that could be a challenge).

As for the rest of the various pieces of this discussion, I haven't wanted to touch it with a 10 foot pole, but now that I'm in the thread, Canadians are plenty patriotic and I should know as I can be plenty guilty of it myself. My eyes were really opened when I dated a New Zealander living in Canada and he pointed out how Canadians have this falsely modest patriotism that is kind of obnoxious. I didn't enjoy that observation, but looking at it through his eyes, he was right. And if anyone wants to claim there is no institutionalized racism in Canada, I submit this incredibly offensive write-up by the Canadian government as a counterpoint: http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1314977704533/1314977734895

As for people from other countries knowing more about the US than Americans know about other countries, this is generally true, but in many cases it's due to TV and not due to deliberately going and learning about it, so I don't think that's a reason to act all superior about our knowledge of the US. And yes, I have met plenty of ignorant Americans who ask me stupid questions (most frequently asked - do I speak French). But I have also met plenty of wonderful, intelligent Americans who travel the world and know way more about other countries than I do.

 

[VGThuy]

I mostly find this amusing because I am literally going to Kansas (and Missouri) tomorrow as part of my quest to go to all 50 states. That said, I've also traveled to 30 different countries and have a quest to go all 10 Canadian provinces, although I admit to slacking on those lately. I figure there is nothing wrong with both seeing the world and also seeing as much as I can of the countries I live(d) in. I've enjoyed my trips to states that other people might not find that interesting (although I won't lie, I have some coming up that could be a challenge).

As for the rest of the various pieces of this discussion, I haven't wanted to touch it with a 10 foot pole, but now that I'm in the thread, Canadians are plenty patriotic and I should know as I can be plenty guilty of it myself. My eyes were really opened when I dated a New Zealander living in Canada and he pointed out how Canadians have this falsely modest patriotism that is kind of obnoxious. I didn't enjoy that observation, but looking at it through his eyes, he was right. And if anyone wants to claim there is no institutionalized racism in Canada, I submit this incredibly offensive write-up by the Canadian government as a counterpoint: http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1314977704533/1314977734895

As for people from other countries knowing more about the US than Americans know about other countries, this is generally true, but in many cases it's due to TV and not due to deliberately going and learning about it, so I don't think that's a reason to act all superior about our knowledge of the US. And yes, I have met plenty of ignorant Americans who ask me stupid questions (most frequently asked - do I speak French). But I have also met plenty of wonderful, intelligent Americans who travel the world and know way more about other countries than I do.

I cannot "like" this post enough. I am in love with this post.

 

[PDilemma]

I was fortunate to travel overseas starting at a young age. Over my many years, whenever I would mention such and such a place, there is very often someone (American) who pops up with "Well, I'd rather visit all 50 states than going out of the country."

Great. Have fun in Kansas.

Why not do both? And there are cool things and cool people in every state. I hate the way so many Americans want to prove how elite they are by dismissing huge swathes of their own country as not worth seeing or knowing anything about. That is equally as bad as being unaware of the world outside our borders.

 

[annie720]

I mostly find this amusing because I am literally going to Kansas (and Missouri) tomorrow as part of my quest to go to all 50 states. That said, I've also traveled to 30 different countries and have a quest to go all 10 Canadian provinces, although I admit to slacking on those lately. I figure there is nothing wrong with both seeing the world and also seeing as much as I can of the countries I live(d) in. I've enjoyed my trips to states that other people might not find that interesting (although I won't lie, I have some coming up that could be a challenge).

Hope you enjoy your trip! I have 4 states to go until I've visited all 50 U.S. states. Hubby only has one. And we have been to every Canadian province! We love road trips and we love history and there's so much to learn about different parts of the U.S. whether it's rural towns on the prairie or metropolitan areas. It's amazing how many little towns have walking tours. I have a photo album of Carnegie Libraries we've seen - they're everywhere! The one in Buffalo, WY is very cool. If hubby came home tonight and said, let's drive to Montana tomorrow, I'd be thrilled. OTOH, if you mention going to an airport, my blood pressure would spiral out of control. Anyway, I'm a Route 66 kind of gal and just want to see it all. exciting or not.

 

[once_upon]

Kansas City has beautiful fountains all around the city. Missouri has some Appalachia wineries near St. Louis.

I've been to a few cities in Canada, and while I think I could name quite a few, it might not be ten.

We've traveled quite a bit in the last 8 years - and not in the US. We plan to travel as much to foreign countries/locations, saving the US for when we no longer feel we can travel outside of the US. That said, I think I've been to more than 35 states and DC. We'll see Alaska next month.

I felt a little overwhelmed when I was reading the Where to go in Europe thread because we have been to many of the cities listed.

 

[snoopy]

1) I’ve been to the mid Midwest dozens of times as that used to be my work territory.

2) the snot came from the people saying I shouldn’t waste my time over seas with the snooty people, and implying I’m a dreaded snooty elite too. Real Mericans see America.

If people want to snoot at me I will snoot back. So yes I would rather see Paris than Topeka if someone is going to go there.

Why not do both? And there are cool things and cool people in every state. I hate the way so many Americans want to prove how elite they are by dismissing huge swathes of their own country as not worth seeing or knowing anything about. That is equally as bad as being unaware of the world outside our borders.

 

[BaileyCatts]

Some people are just boring and don't like to travel cause they don't know where to go or what to do when they get there and don't like to figure out how to get around and like hate people and crowds 'n stuff. Not that I know anyone like that or anything.