Papadakis/Cizeron #6 - Season's Over - Let's Get Drunk!

[Icetigger]

Several new couples joined Gadbois since Worlds and I wonder whether MFD would be in situation to design 20+ perfect & top level SD+FD choreographies or not. I guess it will take even more time to bring up programs and fine tune them for the new couples as she needs to know about their wishes, their tastes, their expectations, their strengths, their weaknesses, etc. In addition, all programs of all couples need to fully comply with all these new rules in force for the next season. To sum up, a lot of constraints and obviously a lot of work.

As for P/C, the first season of this new Olympic cycle should be definitely a great opportunity to work with other choreographers, in collaboration - or not - with MFD.

The new rules- entertainment bonus and character step seq (except the entertainment bonus seems to have been nixed, though one may guess its spirit will somewhat remain) seem a bit anti-Gadbois, and a demand for a bit more from G and G. The revision and development of the skating so many couples with regard to a changed system will be quite a job.

As much as I hope G and G will bring in an outside choreographer, I also hope they will limit MFD's access to the sessions where the programmes are developed. Bringing in someone from outside for a point of difference would be a waste if their competitors' choreographer is allowed access and instruction in their specific choreographic method, such that 8/7 top teams in the world can benefit from it, which will be approximately the number of top couples at Gadbois next season.

There also seems a lot of projection of a certain type of parent-child relationship on that of a coach/choreographer and the skaters in comments that I read. I also have a feeling that too exists within Gadbois. One asks- are P/C the artists and their bodies their own canvas, or is MFD the artist and they her box of paints. Certain interviews I've seen of MFD suggest that she might see them as the latter.

Accordingly, I hope they get a choreographer who has in his or her head an idea of teaching them to choreograph as much as just teaching them choreography. Not a person standing at the sidelines giving them every instruction on what they should do and how they should do it, but one who provides a roadmap and guidelines for them to go on the journey of creating the programme they want., where the moves look the way they want them to move, and tell the story they want to tell.

To be honest, I think inflicting that sort of terrible non-development of the skater as an artist is an impossibility with G and G; and they are already very much in control of what they do. It would however be nice for them to work with someone who has the unselfish agenda of them working towards that being the unmitigated message of who they are as skaters.

 

[cocotaffy]

Happy Birthday to the lovely Gabriella I wish her all the best, health above all and great success in all her endeavors.

 

[barbarafan]

Several new couples joined Gadbois since Worlds and I wonder whether MFD would be in situation to design 20+ perfect & top level SD+FD choreographies or not. I guess it will take even more time to bring up programs and fine tune them for the new couples as she needs to know about their wishes, their tastes, their expectations, their strengths, their weaknesses, etc. In addition, all programs of all couples need to fully comply with all these new rules in force for the next season. To sum up, a lot of constraints and obviously a lot of work.

As for P/C, the first season of this new Olympic cycle should be definitely a great opportunity to work with other choreographers, in collaboration - or not - with MFD.

ITA that this year is the perfect year for experiments if that is what P/C want to do. That is after all how they ended up at Gadbois. Romain wanted them to see what program MFD could come up with for them and while they were there for choreog. MFD and team asked Romain to join the team. So whether their motivation was more to not lose Romain or to gain Gadbois they chose to train there. I guess we will see what they decide to do for their programs this year. Maybe they know already. Good thing I take my ulcer pills each day.

 

[barbarafan]

The new rules- entertainment bonus and character step seq (except the entertainment bonus seems to have been nixed, though one may guess its spirit will somewhat remain) seem a bit anti-Gadbois, and a demand for a bit more from G and G. The revision and development of the skating so many couples with regard to a changed system will be quite a job.

As much as I hope G and G will bring in an outside choreographer, I also hope they will limit MFD's access to the sessions where the programmes are developed. Bringing in someone from outside for a point of difference would be a waste if their competitors' choreographer is allowed access and instruction in their specific choreographic method, such that 8/7 top teams in the world can benefit from it, which will be approximately the number of top couples at Gadbois next season.

There also seems a lot of projection of a certain type of parent-child relationship on that of a coach/choreographer and the skaters in comments that I read. I also have a feeling that too exists within Gadbois. One asks- are P/C the artists and their bodies their own canvas, or is MFD the artist and they her box of paints. Certain interviews I've seen of MFD suggest that she might see them as the latter.

Accordingly, I hope they get a choreographer who has in his or her head an idea of teaching them to choreograph as much as just teaching them choreography. Not a person standing at the sidelines giving them every instruction on what they should do and how they should do it, but one who provides a roadmap and guidelines for them to go on the journey of creating the programme they want., where the moves look the way they want them to move, and tell the story they want to tell.

To be honest, I think inflicting that sort of terrible non-development of the skater as an artist is an impossibility with G and G; and they are already very much in control of what they do. It would however be nice for them to work with someone who has the unselfish agenda of them working towards that being the unmitigated message of who they are as skaters.

So just to make sure I understand you..... 1)You want P/C to go elsewhere for their choreography 2) you want everything done in secret and to make sure MFD doesn't know what they are doing. 3) You are totally convinced that MFD will sabotage their programs to help her other teams.

OMG....I don't know whether to laugh at you or pray for you.

I am so glad P/C do not share your delusions. If you are a wannabe choreographer you should send them your special requests ASAP so that they do not lose out on your brilliance.

 

[Icetigger]

So just to make sure I understand you..... 1)You want P/C to go elsewhere for their choreography 2) you want everything done in secret and to make sure MFD doesn't know what they are doing. 3) You are totally convinced that MFD will sabotage their programs to help her other teams.

OMG....I don't know whether to laugh at you or pray for you.

I am so glad P/C do not share your delusions. If you are a wannabe choreographer you should send them your special requests ASAP so that they do not lose out on your brilliance.

As previously said, I am not going to get anything out of engaging with you (and if God chooses to listen when you pray to him, that's on him). All the best!

 

[marifran]

I may be out of my mind but I wonder if Catherine Pinard is not the most important person for them artistically speaking. It seems to me she "pushed a button" and their inner musicality and sensitivity exploded. I read somewhere she had them to read Beethoven's diary for exemple, just like Zueva took Goordeeva & Grinkov to museums and concerts in the past.

Sadly, since COP, choero. is not imho what shows the differences beetween teams; interpretation ( that is musicality, body language, mood, meaning ...) is (besides technique of course). P/C could have skated many programs from the other top teams and it would have been pieces of art. But the other way round, I doubt it .

The person coming up with THE good music and concept that will inspire them is the most important one imho. My 2 cents is that nobody in Gadbois does have extensive music knowledge apart from Catherine Pinard maybe and that's what worries me.
Also rules are such that it is impossible for a non skating choreographer to work in ice dance even though we would desperately need fresh inspiration.

Crazy me but when I look at what Lori Nicol has created for Carolina I wish she could envision P/C's future and pick music with and for them

 

[alain06fr]

I may be out of my mind but I wonder if Catherine Pinard is not the most important person for them artistically speaking. It seems to me she "pushed a button" and their inner musicality and sensitivity exploded. I read somewhere she had them to read Beethoven's diary for exemple, just like Zueva took Goordeeva & Grinkov to museums and concerts in the past.

Sadly, since COP, choero. is not imho what shows the differences beetween teams; interpretation ( that is musicality, body language, mood, meaning ...) is (besides technique of course). P/C could have skated many programs from the other top teams and it would have been pieces of art. But the other way round, I doubt it .

The person coming up with THE good music and concept that will inspire them is the most important one imho. My 2 cents is that nobody in Gadbois does have extensive music knowledge apart from Catherine Pinard maybe and that's what worries me.
Also rules are such that it is impossible for a non skating choreographer to work in ice dance even though we would desperately need fresh inspiration.

Crazy me but when I look at what Lori Nicol has created for Carolina I wish she could envision P/C's future and pick music with and for them

100% agree with this. To me, Catherine Pinard is THE key contributor of P/C's success since they moved to Gadbois. She made them do so many weird things. For example, in 2014/2015, she pushed them to rehearse their FD without any soundtrack, asking them to sing the Mozart piano concerto music by themselves while skating. Their very first training course with her was also very ... very special, that's the the least I would say. So many crazy (in the positive way) stories with Catherine Pinard. Their collaboration was very quickly fruitful and the symbiosis between Catherine Pinard and P/C became shortly really exceptional (and still is BTW).

 

[Twilight1]

I just read an article about V&M and Tessa said she would love to work with Mia Michaels.

I actually thought she would be AMAZING with P&C.

She is as organic as you can get as a dance choreographer.

Faves of mine...
https://youtu.be/1D_PUdnkSTE

https://youtu.be/cufPoqE21ko

https://youtu.be/ObmaIYeewik

 

[twinklestar]

The Mozart's music and concept was Romain Haguenauer's sister idea... Haguenauer doesn't like classical music. And it's Muriel Zazoui who had the idea to ask MFD to choreograph on this music.

 

[ewig_fliegende]

The Mozart's music and concept was Romain Haguenauer's sister idea... Haguenauer doesn't like classical music. And it's Muriel Zazoui who had the idea to ask MFD to choreograph on this music.

And has Zazoui anything to do with G&G's Paso SD? I've always had a feeling that it stands apart from all their senior short dances. Maybe she made some contribution?

 

[marifran]

starting a stupid game (off season blues sorry) : what program could suit teams the least ?

C/B : Dracula (oh sweet gentle Evan. Or Madi could be Dracula maybe)
H/D : Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Jane Austin's Pride &Prejudice : (Madi as a young shy, romantic modest lady)
P/C : Hard rock, Born in the USA ? So subtle music ...
Shibs : Laurel & Hardy

W/P ? G/P ?

 

[Twilight1]

W&P- X files
G&P- Rocky Horror Picture Show

 

[twinklestar]

And has Zazoui anything to do with G&G's Paso SD? I've always had a feeling that it stands apart from all their senior short dances. Maybe she made some contribution?

They worked with Antonio Najarro, the flamenco dancer. I don't know who suggested him. But Anissina/Peizerat and other french ice dancers worked with him, so maybe he is linked to Lyon and Zazoui.

 

[Taso]

100% agree with this. To me, Catherine Pinard is THE key contributor of P/C's success since they moved to Gadbois. She made them do so many weird things. For example, in 2014/2015, she pushed them to rehearse their FD without any soundtrack, asking them to sing the Mozart piano concerto music by themselves while skating. Their very first training course with her was also very ... very special, that's the the least I would say. So many crazy (in the positive way) stories with Catherine Pinard. Their collaboration was very quickly fruitful and the symbiosis between Catherine Pinard and P/C became shortly really exceptional (and still is BTW).

This is fascinating...any interviews with P&C on Catherine, or vice versa?

 

[Sylvia]

This is fascinating...any interviews with P&C on Catherine, or vice versa?

Here's a (short) December 2017 article: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...rmer-cirque-du-soleil-choreographer-1.4465917

 

[Viscaro]

They worked with Antonio Najarro, the flamenco dancer. I don't know who suggested him. But Anissina/Peizerat and other french ice dancers worked with him, so maybe he is linked to Lyon and Zazoui.

Actually in an interview I think Hagenauer said that MFD called him, said that Najarro was having a masterclass for Hurtado/Diaz funded by the Spanish Fed, and that he should tag along with his students (using the Spanish Fed funding as well because he was coaching Robledo/Fenero). It was before that Hagenauer and MFD joined forces officially. That's how P/C worked with Najarro.

(But Hagenauer and Najarro certainly knew each other well already)

 

[mysticchic]

starting a stupid game (off season blues sorry) : what program could suit teams the least ?

C/B : Dracula (oh sweet gentle Evan. Or Madi could be Dracula maybe)
H/D : Umbrellas of Cherbourg, Jane Austin's Pride &Prejudice : (Madi as a young shy, romantic modest lady)
P/C : Hard rock, Born in the USA ? So subtle music ...
Shibs : Laurel & Hardy

W/P ? G/P ?

G&P Sweet Transvestite from rocky horror
Weapo-?

 

[twinklestar]

Actually in an interview I think Hagenauer said that MFD called him, said that Najarro was having a masterclass for Hurtado/Diaz funded by the Spanish Fed, and that he should tag along with his students (using the Spanish Fed funding as well because he was coaching Robledo/Fenero). It was before that Hagenauer and MFD joined forces officially. That's how P/C worked with Najarro.

(But Hagenauer and Najarro certainly knew each other well already)

Najarro did the SD for 2002 Olympics for Anissina/Peizerat. At the same time, Dubreuil/Lauzon moved to France to train with Zazoui and Haguenauer in Lyon. So, yes, D/L probably know Najarro from that time.

 

[alain06fr]

This is fascinating...any interviews with P&C on Catherine, or vice versa?

Please find a link to the best video I know about the collaboration of P/C with Catherine Pinard. This video includes various interviews and recordings of some amazing training sessions. You definitely need to watch this. It's so great to listen to Catherine Pinard and understand what she wants to achieve with Gaby and Guillaume. This video is in French, just let me know if you guys need an English translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfVPEn2b88

 

[Taso]

Please find a link to the best video I know about the collaboration of P/C with Catherine Pinard. This video includes various interviews of Catherine Pinard and recordings of some amazing training sessions. You definitely need to watch this. It's so great to listen to Catherine Pinard and understand what she wants to achieve with Gaby and Guillaume. This video is in French, just let me know if you guys need an English translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfVPEn2b88

You are wonderful, and yes an English translation, if you are willing, would be so great thank you

 

[barbarafan]

Please find a link to the best video I know about the collaboration of P/C with Catherine Pinard. This video includes various interviews and recordings of some amazing training sessions. You definitely need to watch this. It's so great to listen to Catherine Pinard and understand what she wants to achieve with Gaby and Guillaume. This video is in French, just let me know if you guys need an English translation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbfVPEn2b88

Thanks Alain....I think I have seen this before or one similiar linked to Catherine's fb but I couldn't find it tonight. So beautiful.

 

[cocotaffy]

You are wonderful, and yes an English translation, if you are willing, would be so great thank you

There is a translation on GS here post #3086 . Very interesting video indeed on Catherine's process.
There was also a very interesting article in Patinage Magazine which I translated in parts and posted here.

 

[cocotaffy]

Stumbled upon this beautiful short video on the music of Rain in your black eyes. Of course the music is now tied to P/C in my mind but this is an aquatic ballet, and the way the dancer moves reminded me of P/C quality of movement like they are in weightlessness conditions. Everyone has been describing their skating as floating above the ice but they might actually be swimming deep under water.

 

[marifran]

I feel like Zazoui's work has been underestimated too. Nothing to do here but I feel for her : I saw her 2 years ago at the French Grand Prix, barely walking with a big suitcase. She couldn't manage to open the toilets door. She was there to watch P/C of course among other things. Nobody was waiting, nor welcoming nor helping her. Although a total stranger I inquired about her health and helped : she had been paralysed following a severe disease not knowing what the future would be. SHAME on Didier and the atmosphere he created within the french figure skating world .
News on Murielle anyone ?

 

[annie_mg]

I feel like Zazoui's work has been underestimated too. Nothing to do here but I feel for her : I saw her 2 years ago at the French Grand Prix, barely walking with a big suitcase. She couldn't manage to open the toilets door. She was there to watch P/C of course among other things. Nobody was waiting, nor welcoming nor helping her. Although a total stranger I inquired about her health and helped : she had been paralysed following a severe disease not knowing what the future would be. SHAME on Didier and the atmosphere he created within the french figure skating world .
News on Murielle anyone ?

I second this. Muriel is the reason French ice-dancing became a thing. Gone are the days where A/P, D/S and P/B were all training in Lyon. It's so sad to think that because of bad management that school is a shadow of what it used to be. As far as I know, Olivier Schoenfelder still coaches there (and he can for sure use his time with Muriel in his work with his students), but he hasn't had any top teams. Last time I saw Muriel in the stands she was limping...

I was also shocked that nobody mentioned her nor Marina and Gwendal during the Olympics. I would have thought that mentioning the former Olympic champions and the one who made them champions would be the normal thing to do.

 

[barbarafan]

I feel like Zazoui's work has been underestimated too. Nothing to do here but I feel for her : I saw her 2 years ago at the French Grand Prix, barely walking with a big suitcase. She couldn't manage to open the toilets door. She was there to watch P/C of course among other things. Nobody was waiting, nor welcoming nor helping her. Although a total stranger I inquired about her health and helped : she had been paralysed following a severe disease not knowing what the future would be. SHAME on Didier and the atmosphere he created within the french figure skating world .
News on Murielle anyone ?

This is so sad...I have not read of her actual story but have seen some very good things attributed to her and also read she is hated by Didier and he was doing his best to destroy her. I am so sorry she is unwell.I guess politically it would be skating suicide to help and support her while he still lives. It seems he is jealous and destructive to anyone with more talent than him.

 

[synian]

I will let you make your own opinion on this. There is no recent news on Murielle Zazoui (google search), may be it is her choice so ..wikipedia was last revised in 2018
the last news about the shool I found : (in french but related to previous posts so ... if anybody wants to translate ...)
11/05/2015 ! http://www.mag2lyon.com/m-3161--pat...nt-pas-gagne-s-ils-etaient-restes-a-lyon.html
24/01/2016 : http://www.bienpublic.com/sport-local/2016/01/23/lyon-la-star-academie-de-danse
23/02/2016 : https://medium.com/@londonSB01/la-danse-sur-glace-lyonnaise-en-perte-de-glisse-547164bb43a5

Olivier Schoenfelder works on the Lyon's school and is probably the appointed coach for competitions.

 

[Taso]

There is a translation on GS here post #3086 . Very interesting video indeed on Catherine's process.
There was also a very interesting article in Patinage Magazine which I translated in parts and posted here.

Awesome thank you!

 

[twinklestar]

This is so sad...I have not read of her actual story but have seen some very good things attributed to her and also read she is hated by Didier and he was doing his best to destroy her. I am so sorry she is unwell.I guess politically it would be skating suicide to help and support her while he still lives. It seems he is jealous and destructive to anyone with more talent than him.

You are really telling bullshit!

 

[marifran]

I will let you make your own opinion on this. There is no recent news on Murielle Zazoui (google search), may be it is her choice so ..wikipedia was last revised in 2018
the last news about the shool I found : (in french but related to previous posts so ... if anybody wants to translate ...)
11/05/2015 ! http://www.mag2lyon.com/m-3161--pat...nt-pas-gagne-s-ils-etaient-restes-a-lyon.html
24/01/2016 : http://www.bienpublic.com/sport-local/2016/01/23/lyon-la-star-academie-de-danse
23/02/2016 : https://medium.com/@londonSB01/la-danse-sur-glace-lyonnaise-en-perte-de-glisse-547164bb43a5

Olivier Schoenfelder works on the Lyon's school and is probably the appointed coach for competitions.

Nothing new really except this hilarious almost innocent sentence by Romain when asked if he had seen their potential up front when they first met (P/C were 13 and 14) :
" to be honest ... I felt like Guillaume was shy, in his inner world, maybe even not motivated"

"I realized their potential when they came training full time with me".