Ashley Wagner Cheer Thread #3: The Subject of Tonight's Lecture...

AngieNikodinovLove said:
As much as I do not like this movie, I love this program.

A year ago she already had her music picked out and she seemed so excited and over the moon about her music. She kept teasing us all all spring long with it.

Then outta nowhere she pulled a "Karen Chen" and ditched.

I wonder why? I think she would have done so well with this. I wonder who or what got in her head. Did some official say something to her at Champs Camp in Sept? If so they also said something to Bradie and Bradie was like "Sure, whatever." LOL

Im all for repeating a program if it warrants it. But three times? The second time she performed it at Worlds she wasnt even in top 6. So by Oct 2017 there was no reason to bring MR back at all. Especially in an Oly year. You dont want to head to the Olys with the same program you did for 3 years.

I think the LLL program has PCS all over it... :( I hope she comes back for one more season to satisfy the needs of one person: ME :p

P.S. Websters: "Karen Chen" adjective. To abort a program for no apparent reason. Used in a sentence: Tarasova & Morosov should have Karen Chened last October.
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I agree with you that she made a mistake dropping LLL for Moulin Rouge and should have stuck with LLL from the beginning, but that’s not right. The second time she performed Moulin Rouge at Worlds was Boston 2016 where she won the silver medal. It was the exogenesis program in 2017 Helsinki that had her out of the top 6.
 
MRani said:
I agree with you that she made a mistake dropping LLL for Moulin Rouge and should have stuck with LLL from the beginning, but that’s not right. The second time she performed Moulin Rouge at Worlds was Boston 2016 where she won the silver medal. It was the exogenesis program in 2017 Helsinki that had her out of the top 6.
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pass me the ginkgo!!!
 
Re. when and why Ashley decided to switch from her La La Land FS:
AngieNikodinovLove said:
I wonder why? I think she would have done so well with this. I wonder who or what got in her head. Did some official say something to her at Champs Camp in Sept?
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Ashley decided not to go with her La La Land program before she went to Champs Camp. The initial article published on this topic last fall said she played both La La Land and Moulin Rouge for Rafael and that he favored MR. But, ultimately, it was her decision. Just like it was her decision to switch back to LLL before Nationals.

I liked LLL as a free skate at first viewing (Nationals) and I thought it was a very effective, moving program on SOI as well.
 
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cbd1235 said:
It's questionable whether it really started the year before the Olympics. I think there's more at play here than mediocre training.
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I think Ashley knew she would never get better than world silver, or even another world medal at all, and it was hard to stay motivated against the unsurpassable Russians. I think she was aiming for the lowest achievement - doing the bare minimum to make the Olympic team, expecting to be chosen for the team SP on rep, and getting another team bronze on the backs of others. Her mistake was not expecting that she needed to be motivated against her own countrywomen, that Bradie would be flawless at nationals and Mirai would land a 3A.

Doubt and insecurity is the only reason she would drop MR. She let it all get to her after Skate America. I doubt it was anyone at Champs Camp who persuaded her to drop LLL - she has gone to Champs Camp for a decade and always seemed to forge her own path. But the way Ashley was performing at that moment, she probably never would have gotten higher than 10th at Olympics, so I do believe the correct team was selected.
 
SkateFanBerlin said:
It's showing sideways?
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It's not my video, I wish I could fix it.

leafygreens said:
I think Ashley knew she would never get better than world silver, or even another world medal at all, and it was hard to stay motivated against the unsurpassable Russians. I think she was aiming for the lowest achievement - doing the bare minimum to make the Olympic team, expecting to be chosen for the team SP on rep, and getting another team bronze on the backs of others.
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While we're all only speculating, I don't think that answer makes the most sense. Her training has been laboured as per reports from Raf, but burnout would be more likely with Ashley, especially considering the length of h. Nothing about her personality says "do the minimum purposely to rest on the backs of others". But achieving a goal she never thought she would (world silver) would definitely factor in too, for sure.

leafygreens said:
Doubt and insecurity is the only reason she would drop MR. She let it all get to her after Skate America. I doubt it was anyone at Champs Camp who persuaded her to drop LLL - she has gone to Champs Camp for a decade and always seemed to forge her own path. But the way Ashley was performing at that moment, she probably never would have gotten higher than 10th at Olympics, so I do believe the correct team was selected.
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100% doubt and insecurity.

As for team selection, based on the criteria, they selected the right team. But the PCS at Nationals were a joke, all around. To have Karen place above Ashley on the merits of PCS in BOTH programs is absolutely nuts. They were essentially the same on the technical side. Had it been judged appropriately, Ash would have been 3rd and on the team. Based on Ashley's trajectory this season, she'd have certainly placed the highest of the US ladies at the Olympics, and made a big impact to book. Mistakes were made.
 
More importantly, she was much more likely to make a splash at PC Olympics like Adam did and like she did at Sochi Olympics 4 years ago with the face than either Karen and Bradie actually did to actually promote the sport.

In fact, her rinkside comments at Twitter (esp. about Zagitova) alone already created more buzz than Karen and Bradie did for the entire Olympics combined.
 
I think Ashley was a mess by the time she got to Nationals. The Skate America episode clearly threw her for a loop and it didn't help matters that she immediately started claiming that she would be the national champion. Next, we see her dumping MR for LLL, at the last minute. And... does anyone remember that, immediately after the short program at Nats, she announced that she was going to dump Hip Hip Chin Chin for a new SP at the Olympics? It sounded very... desperate.

I have no confidence that Ashley would have been in any better shape at the Olys than the skaters that were sent.
 
skateboy said:
I think Ashley was a mess by the time she got to Nationals. The Skate America episode clearly threw her for a loop and it didn't help matters that she immediately started claiming that she would be the national champion. Next, we see her dumping MR for LLL, at the last minute. And... does anyone remember that, immediately after the short program at Nats, she announced that she was going to dump Hip Hip Chin Chin for a new SP at the Olympics? It sounded very... desperate.

I have no confidence that Ashley would have been in any better shape at the Olys than the skaters that were sent.
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A few bad decisions were made that sealed her fate. The laziness in training could have been worked with, as she was still on-par with Karen's level. Making 3rd was achievable. The problem was switching programs too late, and missing Skate America. I don't think her rep could withstand both of those hits.

I wish she could have found something inside and pushed through the performance at Skate America, but we don't know what was going on in her body. Switching to LLL so late was bad because there was no time to build that rise in PCS.

She could have gotten bonus points against those two hits by doing summer comps. But she felt no need to do this. It was a risky game that played against her this time.
 
Well Karen even switched her programs multiple times. She didn't skip SA but didn't skate well there either. She lost to Ashley quite handily at Skate Canada and Skate America short.

I don't understand why what Ashley did was so messy and confidence-losing yet it wasn't for Karen?
 
Bad decisions and bad timing can hurt you.

While I was watching old Tonya Harding videos, she was on a roll in 1991 where she won Nationals, finished 2nd at the 1991 Worlds and won Skate America that year.

However, when she took a vacation in late 1991/early 1992 she gave up some valuable training time. She never achieved that 1991 performance level again.

Taking that time off really hurt her ability to perform well in 1992 and later. Every else from then on was downhill.


leafygreens said:
A few bad decisions were made that sealed her fate. The laziness in training could have been worked with, as she was still on-par with Karen's level. Making 3rd was achievable. The problem was switching programs too late, and missing Skate America. I don't think her rep could withstand both of those hits.

I wish she could have found something inside and pushed through the performance at Skate America, but we don't know what was going on in her body. Switching to LLL so late was bad because there was no time to build that rise in PCS.

She could have gotten bonus points against those two hits by doing summer comps. But she felt no need to do this. It was a risky game that played against her this time.
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leafygreens said:
I wish she could have found something inside and pushed through the performance at Skate America, but we don't know what was going on in her body.
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We do know what was going on in her body. She told us what was going on in her body. Some people *cough*davelease*cough* just chose either not to believe her, or to outright blame her for it.
 
Marco said:
Well Karen even switched her programs multiple times. She didn't skip SA but didn't skate well there either. She lost to Ashley quite handily at Skate Canada and Skate America short.

I don't understand why what Ashley did was so messy and confidence-losing yet it wasn't for Karen?
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Didn’t Karen also lose to Ashley at a small club competition over the summer as well?
 
Eeyora1 said:
Didn’t Karen also lose to Ashley at a small club competition over the summer as well?
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No, Ashley didn't compete in any competitions before Skate Canada International. ETA: Oops, I forgot about this: http://www.socalinterclub.org/2017 invitational results/CAT021.html
1 Ashley Wagner, SC of Wilmington (DE) 200.92 2 1
2 Karen Chen, Peninsula SC 198.20 1 2
SP protocols: http://www.socalinterclub.org/2017 invitational results/SEGM030.html
FS protocols: http://www.socalinterclub.org/2017 invitational results/SEGM031.html

Ashley attended this event on Tuesday in NYC: http://www.toryburchfoundation.org/embraceambition/summit/
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bh9edOTg2tT/?hl=en&taken-by=ashwagner2010
 
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skateboy said:
I think Ashley was a mess by the time she got to Nationals. The Skate America episode clearly threw her for a loop and it didn't help matters that she immediately started claiming that she would be the national champion. Next, we see her dumping MR for LLL, at the last minute. And... does anyone remember that, immediately after the short program at Nats, she announced that she was going to dump Hip Hip Chin Chin for a new SP at the Olympics? It sounded very... desperate.

I have no confidence that Ashley would have been in any better shape at the Olys than the skaters that were sent.
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I disagree. I thought she was great at Nats and should have been 3rd. Everyone who ended up in top 3 received inflated PCS. Ashley did not and she only lost to Karen by less than 2 points I think?
 
The thing with Wagner is that she wasn’t what USFS wanted, she was what they had to settle for, there are countless examples of Wagner delivering when it really mattered but that wasn’t relevant, she gave enough of a doubt to the TPTB that she became disposable after her 2017 GP season.
 
DimaToe said:
The thing with Wagner is that she wasn’t what USFS wanted, she was what they had to settle for, there are countless examples of Wagner delivering when it really mattered but that wasn’t relevant, she gave enough of a doubt to the TPTB that she became disposable after her 2017 GP season.
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And Karen was?

I know no one wanted to question Mirai's scores because she created such a moment at Nationals. But now that the sentiments have died down a bit, her PCS and the rotational calls just did not align with what happened internationally that season, both before and after Nationals.
 
leigh466 said:
http://thenakedice.blogspot.com/2018/01/ill-be-judge-of-that-2018-us-nationals.html?m=1
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Completely agree about Ash and Karen.

Completely disagree with Mirai and Bradie.

Bradie beats Mirai in domestic and international competitions. Oh, wait, and she has. tee-hee

As much as we LOVE Mirai we also need to be realistic. Bradie may lack in choreography and interpretation but while Mirai is showcasing an Easter basket of crossovers you also see her lack too. Mirai has little to no choreo as well. Oh and her huge setups into the axel. There's also little to no projection to the audience so there's that too. Love her, but I am fair.

Bradie earned the Nats title. Best jumper since GG, nerves of steel, consistent, no endless reviewing, gets it done. Sure the choreo wasnt core shaking but neither was Mirai's in her first year when she too won, 10 years ago. She too was just a whipper-snapper going about the rink checking off the jumps too.
 
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UGG said:
I disagree. I thought she was great at Nats and should have been 3rd. Everyone who ended up in top 3 received inflated PCS. Ashley did not and she only lost to Karen by less than 2 points I think?
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Are you sure you mean 2018 Nationals? Great? you sure?
 
I think she was aiming to make the Olympics and then Dancing with the Stars. Now that she doesn't have both, it's almost like she doesn't have enough draw to tour internationally. She isn't big in Europe or Japan / Korea. I also can't see her coach or do choreography.

It's either compete or move on from skating altogether.
 
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