First time Ever Russians have no Ice Dance medal! Reform suggestions?

[caseyedwards]

But the Russian coaches are free to coach the competition which didn’t happen back in the day.

This is true! And the Russian skaters should be allowed to follow them! All the coaches have freedom to leave but skaters can’t follow. Or if they do follow no funding.

 

[taz'smum]

This is true! And the Russian skaters should be allowed to follow them! All the coaches have freedom to leave but skaters can’t follow. Or if they do follow no funding.

Where do you get the information about what Russian skaters are allowed and are not allowed to do?

 

[caseyedwards]

Where do you get the information about what Russian skaters are allowed and are not allowed to do?

So many European ice dance teams are training in North America. Why would anyone choose to train in Russia?

 

[Japanfan]

So many European ice dance teams are training in North America. Why would anyone choose to train in Russia?

Because it's home?

 

[laviemn]

So many European ice dance teams are training in North America. Why would anyone choose to train in Russia?

Money? Not everyone can afford to dig into their savings as Katsalapov did to train with Zueva, and not everyone can find a sponsor like Ilinykh. Can the Russian Fed afford to pay for a bunch of teams to train in North America even if they wanted to?

 

[caseyedwards]

Because it's home?

I’m sure the French dancers like France but for their ice dance careers they move to Montreal! Not just French but British, Ukrainian, Slovak, Czech, etc etc etc.

Money? Not everyone can afford to dig into their savings as Katsalapov did to train with Zueva, and not everyone can find a sponsor like Ilinykh. Can the Russian Fed afford to pay for a bunch of teams to train in North America even if they wanted to?

I’m sure they could afford two like France. There’s no point giving any money to ice dancers at all if they aren’t training in North America. Personal savings and private sponsors shouldn’t be the only way! It can’t be if they want a successful ice dance team. The current system is only good for lower top 10. If they only want lower top 10 they have achieved it! If they want world or Olympic medalists must spend money to get dubreuil to coach s/b or z/g.

 

[laviemn]

I’m sure the French dancers like France but for their ice dance careers they move to Montreal! Not just French but British, Ukrainian, Slovak, Czech, etc etc etc.

That's because Didier deliberately made life difficult in Lyon because he was in some sort of power struggle/slapfight with Zazoui. It was a uniquely messed up situation where the Fed president wanted the skaters to leave the country.

I also think the Russian Fed is funding many, many more skaters than France. The French skaters have said they don't get support until they achieve some competitive results so we might be talking about just a handful people here.

Those other federations have even fewer skaters to support.

 

[taz'smum]

If they only want lower top 10 they have achieved it! If they want world or Olympic medalists must spend money to get dubreuil to coach s/b or z/g.

Teams like LL, SD and SF are all training with Dubreuil where are their Olympic and World medals?

 

[caseyedwards]

That's because Didier deliberately made life difficult in Lyon because he was in some sort of power struggle/slapfight with Zazoui. It was a uniquely messed up situation where the Fed president wanted the skaters to leave the country.

I also think the Russian Fed is funding many, many more skaters than France. The French skaters have said they don't get support until they achieve some competitive results so we might be talking about just a handful people here.

Those other federations have even fewer skaters to support.

Well then I hope theirs is a fight like the one between didier and zazoui in Russia! That’s one the best fights of all time for the success of a program!

Russia does fund lots of skaters in all the disciplines! But for ice dance spending money for one team to go to dubreuil or spiliband is too much? Either they want a champion ice dance team or they want middling B/s teams! Russia’s placement at worlds haven’t been above 5th in 4 years.

Teams like LL, SD and SF are all training with Dubreuil where are their Olympic and World medals?

They may not have any but they know better to go to Montreal than Moscow.

 

[whiteskates]

Everything goes in cycles. There was a time when US ladies won almost every competition but now they win nothing and Russian ice dance will be back. There will be new, talented skaters and new coaches will emerge just as it happened with the Russian ladies. Nothing for years and years and look at them now!

 

[taz'smum]

They may not have any but they know better to go to Montreal than Moscow.

If they had gone to Moscow, then maybe they would've had a chance of beating the 2 Russian teams who finished above them in Worlds

 

[taz'smum]

So many European ice dance teams are training in North America. Why would anyone choose to train in Russia?

You did not answer my question, where did you get the information that you quoted about Russian coaches/skaters freedom/funding?

"All the coaches have freedom to leave but skaters can’t follow. Or if they do follow no funding"

 

[VarBar]

Well then I hope theirs is a fight like the one between didier and zazoui in Russia! That’s one the best fights of all time for the success of a program!

Russia does fund lots of skaters in all the disciplines! But for ice dance spending money for one team to go to dubreuil or spiliband is too much? Either they want a champion ice dance team or they want middling B/s teams! Russia’s placement at worlds haven’t been above 5th in 4 years.

You seem to be the only one around here who worries about the situation of Russian ice dancing. Everybody else sounds rather relaxed and apparently believes it's just temporary. You know what they say, the majority is always right.

 

[caseyedwards]

Everything goes in cycles. There was a time when US ladies won almost every competition but now they win nothing and Russian ice dance will be back. There will be new, talented skaters and new coaches will emerge just as it happened with the Russian ladies. Nothing for years and years and look at them now!

Even if there is a time when Russia recovers from this horrendous draught the fact that they are in a horrendous draught can be mentioned! There were tons of words written by hersh and Brennan alone about the us ladies horrendous draught which when for 10 years from 2006 to 2016 is that going to be Russia?! 2014 to 2024?! Let’s hope not! That’s very bad and hopefully Russia if looking at the us horrendous ladies draught doesn’t let it go on 10 years!

If they had gone to Moscow, then maybe they would've had a chance of beating the 2 Russian teams who finished above them in Worlds

I don’t think so! lol

You did not answer my question, where did you get the information that you quoted about Russian coaches/skaters freedom/funding?

"All the coaches have freedom to leave but skaters can’t follow. Or if they do follow no funding"

But it’s their behavior in staying in Moscow for some reason! Very strange! You have the comments about having to use savings from katsalapov or finding a donor from ilinykh

You seem to be the only one around here who worries about the situation of Russian ice dancing. Everybody else sounds rather relaxed and apparently believes it's just temporary. You know what they say, the majority is always right.

It’s not going to be temporary if everyone is relaxed about it

 

[taz'smum]

Time for the ignore button, caseyedwards seems to be an extremely annoying, attention seeking troll.
I've been back on FSU for a very short time, but already have had enough of Caseyedward's extreme posts which are clearly designed to provoke reactions and draw attention to herself.
Consequently, I have no intention of further feeding the beast, so au revoir caseyedwards.

 

[Judy]

There are only so many top ice dance coaches though right? What coaches are still in Russia? Also, if someone can aid my memory what made the Russian coaches leave?

I do think that the lack of results in Russian ice dancing is a bit concerning though. It’s been too long.

 

[caseyedwards]

Time for the ignore button, caseyedwards seems to be an extremely annoying, attention seeking troll.
I've been back on FSU for a very short time, but already have had enough of Caseyedward's extreme posts which are clearly designed to provoke reactions and draw attention to herself.
Consequently, I have no intention of further feeding the beast, so au revoir caseyedwards.

I know only posting “everything is fine! It’s a cycle” is Tolerated by some and they ignore anyone who disagrees! So what?

There are only so many top ice dance coaches though right? What coaches are still in Russia? Also, if someone can aid my memory what made the Russian coaches leave?

I do think that the lack of results in Russian ice dancing is a bit concerning though. It’s been too long.

Lack of ice time and rinks made a lot of coaches leave Russia. But the major figures of ice dance like spiliband and zueva left before that for other reasons. Some political some personal and many times just financial.
Spiliband
Zueva
Krylova
Linichuk
Grishuk
Platov
Klimova
Ponomarenko
Morozov

So all those people left and not all of them coach but many do

Russia has zhulin, kustarova and svinan and zhuk and occasionally Tchaikovskaia but that’s it- none of them are top coaches . One world medal in 2013

Current best
Dubreuil
Spiliband
Zueva

Fusar poli rising

 

[caseyedwards]

Gorshkov : vagueness of ice dance rules being used to keep Russians down! They need to be clarified!

https://translate.googleusercontent...700201&usg=ALkJrhgyvCfWTsGoH_K_isr-EHcJDGItWQ

I worked 26 years at the ISU Ice Technical Committee on Ice Dancing, it's much harder to find exact criteria in dances than in single and pair skating. I think we need to continue improving the referee system in the dances, so that there was clarity of criteria, close to single and pair skating, "- added the head of the federation.

 

[allezfred]

Where do you get the information about what Russian skaters are allowed and are not allowed to do?

Like everything else caseyedwards posts it comes from its ass.

 

[caseyedwards]

PEople said ilinykh retiring to coach News was ass and where is she now?!?

 

[taz'smum]

Like everything else caseyedwards posts it comes from its ass.

I am pretty sure caseyedwards is the same person as gymers on Goldenskate, as I can't imagine 2 people have exactly the same obsessions about Russia and would post exactly the same extreme provocative comments.

Thank God for the ignore button, as it would drive me crazy to keep seeing all that drivel!

 

[caseyedwards]

Yeah because Russia is doing Great in ice dance! Things couldn’t be better!

 

[Bigbird]

Like everything else caseyedwards posts it comes from its ass.

Well, in his defence, if the program and music choices from the Russian dance teams within this last quad are of their own free will, oh God help them.

Talk about a team like S/B grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory. They had so many more intriguing versions of Love Story, but alas....

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s so sad! Trying to find good versions of love story!

 

[Anyasnake]

Yeah because Russia is doing Great in ice dance! Things couldn’t be better!

Do you expect every Russian Ice Dance teams to be P/C or V/M right out of Juniors ? Or to win gorld or silver Worlds on their 2nd Seniors season ? These are exceptions.
Russians Ice was going to be find and a coupe of teams messed up by splitting, reforming, etc.
I think Stepanova/Bukin can get up there with good programs and less acrobatics. And Zagorski/Guerreiro are standing out from this "heavy", OTT, Russian "style" and they might be just what Russia needs as an Ice Dance team. Someone different.

 

[caseyedwards]

Do you expect every Russian Ice Dance teams to be P/C or V/M right out of Juniors ? Or to win gorld or silver Worlds on their 2nd Seniors season ? These are exceptions.
Russians Ice was going to be find and a coupe of teams messed up by splitting, reforming, etc.
I think Stepanova/Bukin can get up there with good programs and less acrobatics. And Zagorski/Guerreiro are standing out from this "heavy", OTT, Russian "style" and they might be just what Russia needs as an Ice Dance team. Someone different.

It would be nice to get a team to something like a peak khoklova novitski level never mind peak domnina shabalin level
How about getting in the final group? This year that was too much to ask at Olympics or worlds! So goals for 2018-2019 are:
1. Try to win above a bronze in gp series
2. Try to get a team into gpf
3. Try to get teams into final group at worlds!
4. Try to win a bronze!

Splitting and reforming worked amazingly and brilliantly for the United States! Hubbell Donahue and chock Bates both from splits. Maybe that’s North American coaching style making it work! So get split Russians to dubreuiil or spiliband

 

[Japanfan]

I’m sure the French dancers like France but for their ice dance careers they move to Montreal! Not just French but British, Ukrainian, Slovak, Czech, etc etc etc.

The question was why anyone would choose to train in Russia.

Saying 'it's home' infers that the majority of skaters will start out skating their home countries. Among those, not all will be able to afford training abroad or have opportunities to do so. I'm sure that should a young skater be told that he/she would have a better opportunity for training and the chance to achieve better results should he/she go to another country, that skater would go. But that opportunity doesn't always arise. or may be financially realistic.

Also, skaters often move within their home countries, especially if they live in a big country like Russia or Canada, and the coach or training situation that works best for them are not located in their home base.

 

[DimaToe]

It seems like the Russian fed can get enough good results out of ladies, pairs, and now mens. I don’t get why @caseyedwards is loosing his or her sh!t over Russian ice Dance not dominating anymore, but it’s just a case similar to the U.S. ladies. Russian ice Dance was the norm to follow under 6.0 and it is hard to let go of what brought success before. Russian skating doesn’t need ice dance to be a powerhouse anymore so I don’t see tremendous efforts to bring it back to its former glory nor do I think Krylova will be the magical answer.

 

[caseyedwards]

The question was why anyone would choose to train in Russia.

Saying 'it's home' infers that the majority of skaters will start out skating their home countries. Among those, not all will be able to afford training abroad or have opportunities to do so. I'm sure that should a young skater be told that he/she would have a better opportunity for training and the chance to achieve better results should he/she go to another country, that skater would go. But that opportunity doesn't always arise. or may be financially realistic.

Also, skaters often move within their home countries, especially if they live in a big country like Russia or Canada, and the coach or training situation that works best for them are not located in their home base.

I am thinking of a team like s/b. Russia’s highest active team with medals at gp events and euros. Why isn’t money spent on them going to dubreuil? Is it because they want to spend lots of money s/k too? Why? And z/g? And even continue to fund b/s in retirement? Why not just give most money to s/b to train with p/c. That’d be great.

Sure let popova/ mozgov and even s/k and z/g get a little pittance but most money goes to potential.

It seems like the Russian fed can get enough good results out of ladies, pairs, and now mens. I don’t get why @caseyedwards is loosing his or her sh!t over Russian ice Dance not dominating anymore, but it’s just a case similar to the U.S. ladies. Russian ice Dance was the norm to follow under 6.0 and it is hard to let go of what brought success before. Russian skating doesn’t need ice dance to be a powerhouse anymore so I don’t see tremendous efforts to bring it back to its former glory nor do I think Krylova will be the magical answer.

It’s unfair to Russia ice dancers to let their discipline collapse into nothing as it’s doing.
It doesn’t have to dominate! How about a team as good as khokhlova novitski at its peak in 2008? D/s in 2009? Or even b/s in 2013. I/k at 2014 Olympics would be great. It doesn’t have any kind of success now. It’s in total failure with not even getting teams in last group! No team in gpf. Not looking for 1993 sweeping of world podium! Just a team in the last group with hope of bronze! I don’t think that’s out of line!

 

[Anyasnake]

Why not just give most money to s/b to train with p/c. That’d be great.

Never going to happen I think. There is H/D and P/C in Montreal, I think it's safe to say that if they are asked, both teams will refuse another (future) top team with them. They would want to fight for top 2 between themselves, at the same place, so no need to add a 3rd team.
Plus there is already a Canadian fight between 3 teams in Montreal for those spots at Worlds and in Beijing in the future. You cannot add more to the craziness, I think this year having top 3/4 was already crazy enough.