Are we spending enough time to mentally prepare our athletes?

[brennele]

I posted some of this content on a Nathan Chen thread but I think it is important enough to warrant a discussion in its own right. I have a gut feeling that some of the eastern countries, esp the Asian countries, provide their athletes with training in these finer arts of self-mind mastery. It is part of their culture, in fact, and I believe it is reflected in the performance of the two Japanese skaters who took the gold and silver respectively. There is no question in my mind that these athletes had formal training in this area. It is a long tradition in that part of the world.

Now, what surprises me is that the US training coaches do not incorporate this sort of training into their coaching of athletes - just the way they train them in ballet and other disciplines which, over the long run, will boost their success. Besides working on the physical aspects of the sport, there is a great need to set aside training time for them to attend sessions where they can boost the self-mastery of their mind. There exist experts which train persons in this sort of stuff just the way there are experts who train persons in skating and ballet and whatever. It takes training to achieve the sort of mental state wherein a person does not become flustered and nervous. My guess is that the Japanese skaters had just that sort of training included in their overall preparation program.

Nathan and many other athletes would benefit from more attention to these areas. Sasha Cohen is another individual who comes to mind as one who would have greatly benefited. With such training, Nathan would be a veritable force to contend with - few could match him. Without it, well, hazards can occur, as we did (sadly) witness.....and hazards will continue to occur unless this area of performance success is addressed. It was heartbreaking to witness Nathan's plight but it was NOT surprising, given his age. It was, in fact, unfortunately predictable. Few teenagers have had enough life experience to master ego control and develop other mental skills mastery. Some do but they are the exception. The ones who do are typically teens who have had huge obstacles to overcome at an early age. Instead, teens tend to spend all their time physically training and such is understandable. They have not lived long enough to know any better. It is up to their coaches to intervene. Athletes also need training and help to develop the right mindset to win. It is not only about the body. They need physical training AND mental training. Eastern cultures know this reality. The two skills need to occur together and such does not happen often in the natural biology of human development. Without the right training in this area, something like the Olympics can get away from a person. Had Nathan had the benefit of this sort of training - as I am certain his competitors had - there is little doubt in my mind that he would have placed first or second.

 

[Spun Silver]

I think Western skaters tend to work with sports psychologists to address this issue, but I doubt the work is as intensive as the "ego control" you are talking about, and it also may be quite different as well.

 

[brennele]

Spun, But that is my point, exactly. They are not getting training in some of the key elements in this area which would lead to success. Moreover, I am certain their Asian competitors ARE getting this training because it is a part of that culture. Sports psychologist, while providing valuable input in their own right, are not the people needed to help our athletes with these kinds of challenges. What happened to Nathan Chen was highly predictable in a 19 year old human male. It is the norm, in fact. My point, is that is was preventable.

 

[jiejie]

Then how do you explain Takahiko Mura and Han Yan? Did they skip out on their "self-mind mastery courses" that you are supposing is some sort of secret weapon/magic advantage that Asian skaters have? Did Keiji Tanaka only go to half the sessions, as evidenced by his up-and-down programs?

 

[brennele]

jiejie, You are taking this comment out of context and, then, adding into it overtones which are not needed. We are not talking about any "secret weapons" here. We are talking about including, as part of the preparation for success, training in aspects of mind discipline which are very effective in controlling some of the pitfalls in performance sports. The fact that Eastern cultures have a tradition for this sort of thing does not mean that every Eastern performer will be a master at it. They are just as human as we are and not everyone is going to succeed in every arena.

The point is that we need to invest in a total package of training. There is no point in spending all of this money to prepare athletes for the physical component of the competition and not offer them additional training to avoid pitfalls. I stress the term pitfalls because what happened to Chen is highly predictable and very common. Chen is a 19 year old athletic male and that carries with it a certain set of characteristics. Some of these characteristics lead to success (and survival of the species) and some of them will lead to disaster. Sadly, in Chen's case, normal characteristics for his age and gender led to disaster. It does not happen to every young male; it happens to some. Efforts to prevent any such outcomes are worthwhile. Not everyone will get the flu with or without flu shots. Flu shots will prevent some cases and even prevent some deaths from flu. They are worth getting. Chen was not properly prepared for what he faced. When you send a man into battle you don't give him only a bayonet and say he is so good that he does not need anything else. You give him a rifle WITH a bayonet so he meets his opponent on equal footing.

 

[jiejie]

I'm taking your comments at face value. Now you seem to be trying to backpedal when I presented three skaters (2 Japanese, 1 Chinese) who don't fit your narrative. Have you ever spent significant time in any of the northeast Asian countries? Because there seem to be a lot of say....interesting...assumptions underlying your theories.

I'm a bit disturbed by your war/bayonet analogy. Surely you could have come up with something less frighteningly provocative?

Bottom line: I don't disagree that a total package of training including mental strengthening and dealing with pressure is appropriate, but I'm not sure you are making a coherent case. Figure skating is one of the precision sports and regardless of how good a skater one is, eventually there will come a day when things don't go right. Even Hanyu has had off-days, as has every other top Asian skater.

Bottom line corollary: I happen to believe that the ability for a skater to deliver the goods, under competitive pressure and consistently, is more of a natural gift /innate quality, than it is a learned skill. I think mental strength in competition can be learned/improved to some extent by some skaters. But there are others that just can't do it no matter how much mental training you propose to invest in. A skater that actually thrives under competitive pressure and loves it--like Michelle Kwan--is comparatively rare. I will postulate that the more you compete, the better you get at it whatever your intrinsic mental strength limit or set-point might happen to be. I think this is one of the underlying secrets of the Russian ladies both junior and senior--they are constantly competing against each other informally in training and formally in local and national-level events.

 

[brennele]

Jeijie, you make some valid points but let me address some of your comments. I am not "backpedaling" because I do not have enough time to watch a sufficient amount of figure skating to be familiar with the skaters you referenced. Some of what you say is true meaning that some people are "naturals" at the sort of thing you and I are discussing. Most, however, are not. This ability tends to be the exception and not the rule just like not contracting the flu after someone sneezes directly in your face tends to be the exception. Things did not "go right" for Chen because he fell prey to predictable pitfalls. Think about what I am saying - "predictable pit falls"............and he was a sitting duck for them due to his age, gender and previous success at what he has been doing. He was not properly prepared for what he would face.

No one is saying that every Asian skater is going to be able to master this sort of thing but at least they are given training in it - it is a tradition in these cultures. Sure, some will not be able to "deliver the goods.....no matter how much mental training you propose to invest." Is that logic a valid rationale for not offering other persons the opportunity to benefit from a training tool? What you are saying is, true, meaning that the more you compete the better you will get. That STILL is not a rationale for not offering our athletes the sort of training I am referencing. What you are effectively saying is that with enough skill, training and experience, perhaps one would not need the rifle; the bayonet would be sufficient. Is that a reason to send a man into battle with only a bayonet when the opponents have the bayonet attached to a rifle. I think not. I guarantee you that Hanyu had the sort of training I am referencing and Chen needed it, as well. He did not know that so I don't fault him; he is only 19. Someone, responsible to train him, however, SHOULD have known that. An extremely skilled and talented young male got psyched out by a comparable opponent with an additional skill set which was never offered to Chen. Hear what I am saying..........."predictable" AND "avoidable." It did not need to have been that painful for him. It is like pulling a tooth without any anesthesia .....not necessary!

 

[mag]

Learning to compete is no different than learning a triple, which is no different than learning to express music. It takes coaching, desire, practice, and sometimes a bit of luck. I have no idea what kind of learning to compete training Nathan has had, but I assume he has had some. Hopefully he learned a lot at thes games and will go home stronger than he arrived.

 

[brennele]

Chen was totally blind-sided and flummoxed by what happened to him. He was totally humiliated and also totally at a loss to understand what was happening to him. The dynamics of the whole thing, as it played out, was obvious enough to me and I am far from an expert. He started to figure it out a bit on his own and we saw a total turn around in the FS. He started to "get it" on his own (because he is very smart) but the lesson was very painful for him and, in my opinion, unnecessarily so. He needed better mental discipline and not of the sort that comes from a sports psychologist. Neither is it something which comes overnight. It is something his coaches and trainers should have started working on long ago. Instead, someone was asleep on the job meaning that someone let him get that tooth pulled without anesthesia.

 

[overedge]

Certain types of training, whether mental or physical, don't work for every kind of skater. This argument seems to be based on assumptions about why Chen performed the way he did and what his current training consists of. It also seems to be based on the assumption that this one specific method, not others, would help him. We're not Chen and/or his coaching team, so I don't think we have enough reliable information to make that assertion.

 

[Spun Silver]

Well, you haven't given any specifics of the kind of training you are recommending so it's hard to evaluate it. In theory it makes sense to me that an athlete would benefit from mental as well as physical training. In practice, I don't know what you mean.

I do think the young Russians get the same result of mental fortitude not from mental training per se, as far as I know, but from constant competition within their training groups. American athletes don't get that practice. So, to stick with the violent metaphors , there may be more than one way to skin the cat.

 

[brennele]

overedge, certainly what you say is certainly true. I have enough confidence in what I proposing with respect to what went wrong, however, that I will hold that view until I have objective evidence to the contrary. What we do know is that something drastically went wrong. We also know that the something was not his physical skills. We saw that in the FS so we can eliminate that possibility from the equation. Doing so pretty much leaves the mental realm as the source of the problem. Now one thing I don't know is whether the coaches and trainers tried to introduce the sort of training I am referencing to him but he rejected it as unnecessary or whether they simply failed to cover that aspect of competition which I see as essential and, also, as doing their job. He is a 19 year old, very athletic male and they can be "hot shots," sometimes having to learn things the hard way. On the other hand, he may not be that way, at all. He may simply have been putting all his energy into his physical training and had no idea that anything else was involved in success at what he was seeking to do. It could go either way but I am very sure it was mental/psychological/spiritual issues which went wrong.

As for his rival, the Japanese skater (I am bad with names), there is a whole lot of evidence if you look closely that he has had exactly the sort of training and mind set I am referencing. When you listen to his comments at the interviews, he says some things which are dead giveaways. I will paraphrase -"I am not concerned with winning. I just want everyone to know I am back and I am going to do the best I can." That is classic detachment philosophy - text book, in fact. Also, if you notice the trainer working with him during the behind the scenes, you will see that the man working with him was doing some classic balancing and centering maneuvers with him. This is textbook stuff. No rocket science involved. Other comments made about him reveal an attitude of humility and non-attachment to an outcome. I greatly admire him for it. I love this guy and I was thrilled that he won. After the SP, I was rooting for him. That being said, my heart broke for Chen. I did not want to see him go through that sort of humiliating and devastating experience. I hated what he went through.

I know I am correct about what went wrong. I just don't know whether the fault likes with Chen or with his trainers who did not do their job. I CHOOSE to give Chen the benefit of the doubt. I really like him so I prefer to believe he was never exposed to certain types of training he needs for success. It is equally possible that he was and that he rejected it.

 

[attyfan]

Sorry, but I don't see how the idea that Chen's trainers may not have taught him a specific technique of mental preparation equals them not doing their job. You have no idea whether skaters who have had that sort of training got it from their skating coaches or from others who teach the mental prep. Furthermore, if as you say, the specific technique is part of Asian culture, it might not work as well on Americans (and, for all his ancestry, Nathan is American) simply because it is not part of American culture -- it may not work as well on those who are not familiar with it, especially since they may not have any confidence in it.

 

[Spun Silver]

You should write him a letter. Seriously. Put your case to him directly and let him evaluate it. Find out the address of Rafael Arutunian's rink and send it to him there.

ITA with you about Hanyu. I didn't realize what those weird pre-event activities were about but I was super impressed with the way he talked about using his long off-ice time so that in fact, he said, he came back stronger than before despite the loss of physical training. That amazed me and I did think he had some very special "secret weapon" or mental training to be able to think and respond to his injury that way.

 

[becca]

Nathan stated that he did better in the free because he had no pressure. I don't know you prepare properly for the games and patterns suggest men need experience.

 

[brennele]

Spun silver, There is a classic Eastern philosophy which involves the concept of detachment. The Buddhists are very big on this sort of thing and so are the Hindus. There is more to it - I am basically simplifying a very complex philosophy but basically persons who ascribe to this philosophy would put their very best effort forward but become indifferent to the outcome it brings about - they "detach" from it. They can reach a point where they put everything they have got into something and they don't care about the outcome. It is very hard to do. The people who are REALLY into this sort of thing "detach" from everything but I don't know as one needs to go quite that far - that sort of thing gets into the realm of the Buddhist monks and that sort of thing. There is also a whole thing about centering and meditating and what not. It is a whole big thing. So if an athlete were trained in the whole 9 yards (there is more to it than my simple version) he would put his absolute all into training but he would not care whether or not he won. Hard to do, no? Someone who is successful in this philosophy trains like hell but it doesn't matter to him if he wins....so the end result is that he does not ever get "psyched out." He has got all of these mind tools - meditation, centering, philosophy, etc. at his disposal. Combine that with supreme athletic ability and you get one heck of a good athlete i.e.the man who won the OG.

Chen, in the long and the short of it, got "psyched out." He had the physical ability to get the gold, for sure, but he did not have the right mind set. Ironically, after his disastrous SP, he DID, in fact become detached in the classic sense. In his own words, he said (paraphrased) "I have nothing to lose now. I am just going out there to do the best I can." He became detached from the outcome and what did he do. He blows everyone away with his FS . He needed that attitude BEFORE he ever got on the ice. He needed to not care about winning but still do his absolute very best. In that case he'd be either 1st or 2nd on the podium. I don't know which of the two men is better. They are both so good. The other Japanese man would have been 3rd.

 

[Sylvia]

@brennele, have you read the translated interview with Nathan's coach? https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/vaytskekhovskayas-interview-with-arutyunyan.103449/

 

[brennele]

Spun Silver, Nathan Chen is a very smart man. Trust me, he will figure it out on his own and he will seek out that sort of mindset training. It is possible that someone tried to expose him to it and he rejected it but more likely, he had no exposure and absolutely no idea. He knows now and he will act on it. This is one smart cookie we are talking about. He will think about it and think about it and he will figure out what the Japanese man had that he did not.......and he will fix that problem. The reason I blame the coaches is because at 19, one does not typically know about these sorts of things. Young men can be hot shots and clueless. Someone has to teach you about it the way someone taught Hanyu. That was their job. He should not have had to go through this excruciating painful experience to find out about it.

 

[brennele]

Sylvia, that interview is absolutely fascinating. Thanks for posting it.

Attyfan, for the record, I am not saying the actual coach should teach him. I am saying that the coach is responsible to see that the skater gets this training from someone who is qualified to teach it. Also, for the record, detachment is a very hard thing to do. It is not the sort of thing one goes to a class one day and the next day it is a done deal. People spend lifetimes trying to get down pat. If Chen did not believe in it before, he surely will do so now. It works for anybody. One does not have to be Asian but they have a headstart. Many Asians are Zen Buddhist hence they are taught about detachment from a young age the way lots of people in this country are taught, as children, about the principles of Christianity or Judaism if they grow up in a family which practices these religions. I am not suggesting that Chen become a Zen Buddhist. Rather, just that he learn about and practice detachment, meditation, centering and other traditional techniques which will help him avoid, in the future, what happened in the 2018 Olympics. I would like to see this man win gold in 2022.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Except for his two flubbed short programs at the Olympics, Nathan has displayed enormous emotional strength over the course of the last year(look at the results). I think that he felt inordinate pressure from USFSA, his sponsors and his mother and trying to deal with the hype. I think that he learned a valuable lesson from this experience and hopefully will be able to better deal with others' expectations.

Actually, if you look at the US men, overall, they performed admirably despite the pressure. The ladies' are another story all together.

 

[Polaris]

I'm Asian and my relatives are Buddhists. Where do I sign up for this mystical mind mastery training?

This thread reads like some Western fetishization of Eastern culture.

Also:

I know I am correct about what went wrong. I just don't know whether the fault likes with Chen or with his trainers who did not do their job.

The dynamics of the whole thing, as it played out, was obvious enough to me and I am far from an expert.

Maybe you should apply to be part of Nathan's coaching team.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

. There is no question in my mind that these athletes had formal training in this area. It is a long tradition in that part of the world.

Japanese skaters had just that sort of training included in their overall preparation program.

Gosh, you are intense, aren’t you?

Hanyu has been training for a long time in Canada and was considered a head case beforehands. Orser has developped his own mental training program and I doubt it comes from the martial arts entirely. Your whole theory fails right here.

 

[Polaris]

As for his rival, the Japanese skater (I am bad with names), there is a whole lot of evidence if you look closely that he has had exactly the sort of training and mind set I am referencing. When you listen to his comments at the interviews, he says some things which are dead giveaways. I will paraphrase -"I am not concerned with winning. I just want everyone to know I am back and I am going to do the best I can." That is classic detachment philosophy - text book, in fact. Also, if you notice the trainer working with him during the behind the scenes, you will see that the man working with him was doing some classic balancing and centering maneuvers with him. This is textbook stuff. No rocket science involved. Other comments made about him reveal an attitude of humility and non-attachment to an outcome. I greatly admire him for it. I love this guy and I was thrilled that he won. After the SP, I was rooting for him. That being said, my heart broke for Chen. I did not want to see him go through that sort of humiliating and devastating experience. I hated what he went through.

First of all, I'm eyerolling at you not knowing Hanyu's name. This means you probably just started watching skating at these Olympics. Hate to break it to you, but there was a low chance Chen would've placed 1st or 2nd on the podium, even if he skated a clean short, despite how NBC tries to spin it.

Secondly, what are you talking about re: Hanyu? Hanyu has repeatedly said he believed he would win the gold, he was confident he would win the gold, he did a lot of visualization exercises involving him winning the gold, it was gold or nothing for him, that if he skated poorly it would "follow" him for the rest of his life. So your theory of him abiding by detachment philosophy goes right out the widow.

Also, he did balancing and maneuvering exercises because his ankle was still injured.

 

[becca]

Detachment is

Spun silver, There is a classic Eastern philosophy which involves the concept of detachment. The Buddhists are very big on this sort of thing and so are the Hindus. There is more to it - I am basically simplifying a very complex philosophy but basically persons who ascribe to this philosophy would put their very best effort forward but become indifferent to the outcome it brings about - they "detach" from it. They can reach a point where they put everything they have got into something and they don't care about the outcome. It is very hard to do. The people who are REALLY into this sort of thing "detach" from everything but I don't know as one needs to go quite that far - that sort of thing gets into the realm of the Buddhist monks and that sort of thing. There is also a whole thing about centering and meditating and what not. It is a whole big thing. So if an athlete were trained in the whole 9 yards (there is more to it than my simple version) he would put his absolute all into training but he would not care whether or not he won. Hard to do, no? Someone who is successful in this philosophy trains like hell but it doesn't matter to him if he wins....so the end result is that he does not ever get "psyched out." He has got all of these mind tools - meditation, centering, philosophy, etc. at his disposal. Combine that with supreme athletic ability and you get one heck of a good athlete i.e.the man who won the OG.

Chen, in the long and the short of it, got "psyched out." He had the physical ability to get the gold, for sure, but he did not have the right mind set. Ironically, after his disastrous SP, he DID, in fact become detached in the classic sense. In his own words, he said (paraphrased) "I have nothing to lose now. I am just going out there to do the best I can." He became detached from the outcome and what did he do. He blows everyone away with his FS . He needed that attitude BEFORE he ever got on the ice. He needed to not care about winning but still do his absolute very best. In that case he'd be either 1st or 2nd on the podium. I don't know which of the two men is better. They are both so good. The other Japanese man would have been 3rd.

Detachment is not just a Eastern religion thing. Christianity also teaches the idea too. Believe it or not. A true Christian should be living their lives in complete surrender to God's will. I would imagine every religion that teaches about God has this at its core.

Sometimes you can want something so bad that bad choices can be made. For example a woman who wants to get married and wants to get married so bad that they ignore some serious red flags about said potential spouse.

Or wanting something so bad when really outcome is in someways out of your hands. You see this with Med she skated probably her best ever but she is not Judge and she can't control someone showed up at last minute who is stronger technically. So it is important sometimes even for mental health for all of us to do our best but also detach from said outcome. Finding said balance is hard.

In our every day lives you apply for a job promotion do your best but still be turned down.

 

[Karina1974]

Anyone read Mark Zeigler's columnn about the ladies final. Harsh, but true.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...ure-skating-russia-nagasu-20180222-story.html

Nagasu’s other excuses: walking in Opening Ceremony, a trip to USA House in the mountains taking four hours, having to go to bed at 8 o’clock each night and wake up at 4 a.m. (“which is hard for me”), the temperature of the water in the showers, being physically and emotionally drained from the team competition.

(Footnote: Seven of the eight women who finished ahead of them also skated at least once in the team competition, including both Russians.)

When politely asked other why countries were able to better manage their hardships and pressures, Nagasu called it “aggressive question” and noted that Canada’s Gabrielle Daleman, who fell three times in the free program, “didn’t have a strong outing here.”

Nagasu added: “I thought of this as my audition for ‘Dancing with the Stars.’ I would like to be on the “Dancing with the Stars” because I want to be a star, and I made history here by landing the first triple Axel for a U.S. lady (in the team competition) and the third at the Olympics. So I think that’s a big deal.”

Chen talked about boot problems in her morning practice session; about this being her first Olympics; about not being around her mother “24/7” at the Athletes Village, where families aren’t allowed.

“To be honest, when I first came here I didn’t know what to expect,” said Chen, 18. “I knew it was going to be big, it was going to be grand. I didn’t know what the media was going to be like, I didn’t know what the ice was going to be like, what the village was going to be like. It was all so brand new and different.

“The biggest change for me was not being able to see my mom 24/7. For me, that was something that I really missed.”

If either of these skaters were my pupils, or my kid, I would sit them down and make them watch the men's skiathlon race, where the gold medalist fell at the start and worked his way all the way from last place to win by a sizable margin. He could have given up, said oh well, I'll try again in 4 years, but he moved his ass and got the job DONE.

 

[AxelAnnie]

Your "but feeling" about who is doing what to whom leaves nothing to evaluate.

 

[Bellanca]

A sports psychologist, etc., they can only do so much. Mental preparedness, nerve management, confidence must come from within. An athlete can take specific steps to help alleviate these things, but as far as fully controlling their particular situation with the appropriate coping skills to be productive, they either have it, or they don’t, and most likely will continue to struggle. IMHO.

 

[snippy]

A sports psychologist, etc., they can only do so much. Mental preparedness, nerve management, confidence must come from within. An athlete can take specific steps to alleviate these things, but as far as controlling their particular situation with the appropriate coping skills to be productive, they either have it, or they don’t, and will most likely continue to struggle. IMHO.

They can only do so much especially if the athlete doesn’t want help. There’s such a stigma with psychology in western society meaning crazy

 

[Bellanca]

They can only do so much especially if the athlete doesn’t want help. There’s such a stigma with psychology in western society meaning crazy

Even if the athlete seeks help, it doesn't always translate to competitive success because it requires, at the end of the day, the athlete to personally take control of their own situation. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

 

[overedge]

Nathan had a bad SP at the Olympics. It happens. No skater has a perfect program every single time they compete, just like no athlete in any other sport has a perfect game or a win every time they compete. Nathan having a bad skate at the Olympics is not a sign that his entire coaching team has been negligent or wrong throughout his entire career.