IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

Skittl1321 said:
If I was an "OAR" athlete, I'd be really pissed about this. They aren't competing under their own flag due to wide spread, state sponsored doping scandal. And one of the athletes was dumb enough to show up doping. It puts all the rest of them in question.
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It’s so incredible! He had to be clean to be invited and have a lifelong career of being clean and with competing being imminent he decided to dope! Not just dope but dope with a known recently banned drug that stays in the body a long time.
 
Willin said:
My question is who would be spiking his drink with Meldonium? I heard he was claiming sabotage, but sabotage via spiking your drink? That's a bit far fetched... (But stranger things have happened)
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Why not? There have been athletes of other nationalities who have got away with even more stupid excuses. Like that French tennis player who claimed it was because he kissed someone who had taken the drug in a gay club. Or the Spanish cyclist who claimed it was in the meat he'd eated. Or, heck, the Australian cricketer who admitted he took it to look good for the press.

Compared to those two, is it that far-fetched that someone with political motivations might have spiked his drink? It's certainly one of the less idiotic excuses I've heard for positive tests.

Wonder how many positive tests we haven't heard about yet at this Games just because they're not Russian?
 
NoStefaniaNo said:
The IOC was set to make a decision on this later this week. From an article on Inside the Games

Russian athletes are participating at the Winter Olympic Games as part of a neutral OAR team as part of a sanction for the "systemic manipulation" of the anti-doping system at Sochi 2014.​

This suspension could be lifted before the Closing Ceremony if they are ruled to have acted within the "letter and spirit" of the eligibility procedures.

Another requirement was to pay a $15 million (£11 million/€13 million) fine to fund the anti-doping effort.
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Yes, technically it could have happened. But it was never going to happen... if you get my drift.

misskarne said:
Wonder how many positive tests we haven't heard about yet at this Games just because they're not Russian?
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I've never heard of a case of them not announcing. They announce it and kick the athlete out right in the middle of the games.
 
I can think of several possibilities.

The athlete took the drug not realizing it was on the forbidden list.

The laboratory made two mistakes.

The athlete took the drug and a masking agent and the masking agent failed to work.

The last possibility is the most interesting one to me because it suggests that an unknown number of athletes from an unknown number of countries could still be taking performance enhancing drugs with generally successful masking agents.

If I were going to look for a conspiracy theory, I'd prefer that one to some wildly jealous curler doctored the drink (and then ripped Papdakis's costume).
 
I just saw an article on Facebook about Zagitova being tested at a practice session in Korea. She gave a blood sample, but was (according to the article) so nervous about missing her practice that she was unable to produce a urine sample. Don't know if it's true or not. The article was in Russian, so I gleaned the information from the comments.
 
wouldacoulda said:
I just saw an article on Facebook about Zagitova being tested at a practice session in Korea. She gave a blood sample, but was (according to the article) so nervous about missing her practice that she was unable to produce a urine sample. Don't know if it's true or not. The article was in Russian, so I gleaned the information from the comments.
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So did she miss her practice then? I don't think you are allowed to not produce a sample; they just stay with you until you do.
 
misskarne said:
Why not? There have been athletes of other nationalities who have got away with even more stupid excuses. Like that French tennis player who claimed it was because he kissed someone who had taken the drug in a gay club. Or the Spanish cyclist who claimed it was in the meat he'd eated. Or, heck, the Australian cricketer who admitted he took it to look good for the press.

Compared to those two, is it that far-fetched that someone with political motivations might have spiked his drink? It's certainly one of the less idiotic excuses I've heard for positive tests.

Wonder how many positive tests we haven't heard about yet at this Games just because they're not Russian?
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A Japanese speed skater left last week because he tested positive and left before his speed skating event started. The JOC did not have enough time to address the issue so the athlete left so as to not disrupt his fellow athletes.
 
Willin said:
My question is who would be spiking his drink with Meldonium? I heard he was claiming sabotage, but sabotage via spiking your drink? That's a bit far fetched... (But stranger things have happened)
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It seemed to have happened (maybe) to Ben Johnson
https://www.blogto.com/film/2012/09/does_new_doc_redeem_ben_johnson/
The film makes a strong case that Lewis' Santa Monica Track team teammate Andre Jackson spiked Johnson's drink to make him test positive. Do you have any doubt this took place?

This whole episode will have doubt in it until the day Andre Jackson comes out publicly and reveals exactly what, if anything, happened. Some days I sat in the edit suite telling myself this whole story was fantasy. Other days I would watch it and wonder: "Could it have happened?" And occasionally I would be convinced it was true! I had long riddle-fueled conversations with Andre (who lives in Angola), where sometimes I felt I was on the verge of a confession, but in the end I never quite got to the bottom of it and the mystery remains.
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Andre Jackson answered " Maybe I did, maybe I didn’t. What has been carried out in 1988 cannot and will not be invalidated".
 
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Vagabond said:
I think we both know the answer to that question. :shuffle:
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No, I honestly have no idea. He'd have to be a total moron to do it. (1) It's curling, folks. (2) He knew he'd be under the microscope, being Russian; (3) They were medal contenders - so the test was inevitable. (4) What was the benefit of doping if the test would reveal it and the medal would be taken away? I am not saying he did, nor am I saying he didn't. I am saying this makes no sense.
 
Perky Shae Lynn said:
No, I honestly have no idea. He'd have to be a total moron to do it. (1) It's curling, folks. (2) He knew he'd be under the microscope, being Russian; (3) They were medal contenders - so the test was inevitable. (4) What was the benefit of doping if the test would reveal it and the medal would be taken away? I am not saying he did, nor am I saying he didn't. I am saying this makes no sense.
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People do a lot of stupid things, such as:
  • Using medication for heart disease when they don't have heart disease.
  • Trying to win at all costs.
  • Ignoring obvious risks of being caught, especially those attendant on the very results one is trying to achieve (such as winning an Olympic medal).
  • Not caring about the consequences for one's spouse or anyone else except oneself.
  • Not putting two and two together, or putting two and two together and getting 3.7.
  • Trying to blame others for one's own actions.
It appears that Alexander Krushelnytsky has done all of these and more.
 
Vagabond said:
People do a lot of stupid things, such as:
  • Using medication for heart disease when they don't have heart disease.
  • Trying to win at all costs.
  • Ignoring obvious risks of being caught, especially those attendant on the very results one is trying to achieve (such as winning an Olympic medal).
  • Not caring about the consequences for one's spouse or anyone else except oneself.
  • Not putting two and two together, or putting two and two together and getting 3.7.
  • Trying to blame others for one's own actions.
It appears that Alexander Krushelnytsky has done all of these and more.
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It certainly appears that way. Except... I have a hard time believing that anyone would be that stupid and careless under the circumstances.
 
Vagabond said:
People do a lot of stupid things, such as:
  • Using medication for heart disease when they don't have heart disease.
  • Trying to win at all costs.
  • Ignoring obvious risks of being caught, especially those attendant on the very results one is trying to achieve (such as winning an Olympic medal).
  • Not caring about the consequences for one's spouse or anyone else except oneself.
  • Not putting two and two together, or putting two and two together and getting 3.7.
  • Trying to blame others for one's own actions.
It appears that Alexander Krushelnytsky has done all of these and more.
Click to expand...
But he just went through a whole screening system where he had to pass multiple tests! He literally decided to dope for the first time on his way to Pyeongchang. That’s increible! The drug is not even masked! He took meldonium only and not even attempted masking drug. The Japanese skater was expelled for masking drug. So not only did Krushelnytsky dope he did so knowing he’d be tested because he was Russian and OAR. A real question of mental illness must be raised.
 
caseyedwards said:
But he just went through a whole screening system where he had to pass multiple tests! He literally decided to dope for the first time on his way to Pyeongchang. That’s increible! The drug is not even masked! He took meldonium only and not even attempted masking drug. The Japanese skater was expelled for masking drug. So not only did Krushelnytsky dope he did so knowing he’d be tested because he was Russian and OAR. A real question of mental illness must be raised.
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To be fair, we don't know what agent he could have tried to mask it. We are assuming he didn't.
 
misskarne said:
Why not? There have been athletes of other nationalities who have got away with even more stupid excuses. Like that French tennis player who claimed it was because he kissed someone who had taken the drug in a gay club. Or the Spanish cyclist who claimed it was in the meat he'd eated. Or, heck, the Australian cricketer who admitted he took it to look good for the press.

Compared to those two, is it that far-fetched that someone with political motivations might have spiked his drink? It's certainly one of the less idiotic excuses I've heard for positive tests.

Wonder how many positive tests we haven't heard about yet at this Games just because they're not Russian?
Click to expand...

They announced one about a week ago and the athlete has already been sent home.
The Japanese short track speed skater Kei Saito has protested his innocence after becoming the first athlete at the Winter Olympics to be suspended for a positive drugs test.

The news was announced by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, who said that the 21-year-old voluntarily accepted a provisional suspension after an out-of-competition test showed signs of acetalozamide, which can be a masking agent and is used as a diuretic.​

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...nter-olympics-sees-japanese-athlete-sent-home

It's logical there would be more media attention given to the Russian athlete given the circumstances under which they are attending the games and the seemingly novel aspect of it being a curler.

ETA: I see this one is already being discussed. My apologies.
 
The Russian curling team in the past had trained at my club in Toronto (it’s a golf, tennis and curling club). My family has actually sat beside various members of them before while eating lunch and dinner. So weird to think one of them has been caught doping.
 
I can't help but think that person was invited to compete at the Olympics while Bukin and Stolbova were not and they would most likely NOT have tested positive here. I'm not making a judgment about the process that the IOC came up with to ensure Russian athletes would be able to compete in Pyeongchang while punishing Russia, but just pointing out the irony of the situation.
 
Interesting (and sad) piece about Zagitova receiving her medal and listening to the Olympic anthem.

As the tune played, officials raised three flags: one Canadian flag for Osmond and two five-ringed, white Olympic flags for the Russians. Medvedeva tried to keep a smile. Zagitova was stoic.

A volunteer ran to a television and snapped a selfie with the image of the new figure skating queen. Then he took a hard look at the image and said, “She doesn’t look happy.” Many near him agreed. When the music stopped and the misery ended, Zagitova gave her only significant reaction.

She sneered.

The International Olympic Committee has been criticized for its wishy-washy method of punishing Russia for vile systematic doping when it hosted the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi. A popular adjective has been “toothless,” and considering that two Russian athletes have been busted for doping violations in PyeongChang, there’s plenty of reason to question whether the IOC accomplished anything with how it handled the scandal.

But it’s always a difficult endeavor to go about disciplining a country full of individuals who don’t all share the same values or deserve the same blame. There will always be a gray area and collateral damage. Friday night represented the most personal level of punishment levied upon Russia. It watched its charming new favorite daughter squirm during a public shaming that she did not provoke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...-1138am:homepage/story&utm_term=.e97e32e1b485
 
barbk said:
Interesting (and sad) piece about Zagitova receiving her medal and listening to the Olympic anthem.

As the tune played, officials raised three flags: one Canadian flag for Osmond and two five-ringed, white Olympic flags for the Russians. Medvedeva tried to keep a smile. Zagitova was stoic.

A volunteer ran to a television and snapped a selfie with the image of the new figure skating queen. Then he took a hard look at the image and said, “She doesn’t look happy.” Many near him agreed. When the music stopped and the misery ended, Zagitova gave her only significant reaction.

She sneered.

The International Olympic Committee has been criticized for its wishy-washy method of punishing Russia for vile systematic doping when it hosted the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi. A popular adjective has been “toothless,” and considering that two Russian athletes have been busted for doping violations in PyeongChang, there’s plenty of reason to question whether the IOC accomplished anything with how it handled the scandal.

But it’s always a difficult endeavor to go about disciplining a country full of individuals who don’t all share the same values or deserve the same blame. There will always be a gray area and collateral damage. Friday night represented the most personal level of punishment levied upon Russia. It watched its charming new favorite daughter squirm during a public shaming that she did not provoke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/a-night-with-no-music-alina-zagitova-feels-weight-of-russias-doping-ban/2018/02/23/7ae965b2-189f-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?hpid=hp_special-topic-chain_brewer-1138am:homepage/story&utm_term=.e97e32e1b485
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Psychoanalysis of her face! Lol.
 
barbk said:
Interesting (and sad) piece about Zagitova receiving her medal and listening to the Olympic anthem.

As the tune played, officials raised three flags: one Canadian flag for Osmond and two five-ringed, white Olympic flags for the Russians. Medvedeva tried to keep a smile. Zagitova was stoic.

A volunteer ran to a television and snapped a selfie with the image of the new figure skating queen. Then he took a hard look at the image and said, “She doesn’t look happy.” Many near him agreed. When the music stopped and the misery ended, Zagitova gave her only significant reaction.

She sneered.

The International Olympic Committee has been criticized for its wishy-washy method of punishing Russia for vile systematic doping when it hosted the 2014 Winter Games in Sochi. A popular adjective has been “toothless,” and considering that two Russian athletes have been busted for doping violations in PyeongChang, there’s plenty of reason to question whether the IOC accomplished anything with how it handled the scandal.

But it’s always a difficult endeavor to go about disciplining a country full of individuals who don’t all share the same values or deserve the same blame. There will always be a gray area and collateral damage. Friday night represented the most personal level of punishment levied upon Russia. It watched its charming new favorite daughter squirm during a public shaming that she did not provoke.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/a-night-with-no-music-alina-zagitova-feels-weight-of-russias-doping-ban/2018/02/23/7ae965b2-189f-11e8-b681-2d4d462a1921_story.html?hpid=hp_special-topic-chain_brewer-1138am:homepage/story&utm_term=.e97e32e1b485
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Zagitova is quite an introvert, so who knows what she would have looked like has it been the Russian national anthem played. The girl has been tamed by her 2-3 years training in Moscow. Add to the fact her coach favored her teammate, I guess she figured she wasn't allowed to celebrate fully. I hope she does with her family.
 
barbk said:
..I'm trying to think of a figure skater who looked sad after receiving a gold medal at the Olympics before this. Failing.
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Vera Caslavska, when the score of the Soviet gymnast was changed to tie her, and she shared the OGM. She looked down without smiling when the Soviet anthem was played during the medal ceremony:
https://www.rferl.org/a/vera-caslavska-obituary-gymnastics-olympics-dead-74/27957727.html

But that wasn't what you meant :)

I think there are people who don't like to cry in public and look sad as a result.
 
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