Ross Miner Out Of Olympic Team (OFFICIAL)

[Skittl1321]

Apparently that's the old way of thinking. Yes it's main function use to be all about who gets to go to Olympics/words but now its apparently just another ordinary competition. You get a medal but that's all, nothing else. Although for some reason they still called it the "Olympic trials." It's perfectly okay to fail at this trial as long as you do best internationally

Where did USFS call it the Olympic trials? There is nothing in anything official that says that.

They do NOT do that because they'd have to pay a licensing fee to USOC.

If ill informed commentators or journalists are saying that, it's not USFSA's fault. They also say "artistic mark" which isn't a thing either.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

What if Nathan Chen bombed?

Well he didn't. Neither did Tennell. And that's why the "body of work"-stuff in reality is only for skaters that will finish 6-8 or something at Olympics.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

This.
For people who hand wring every skating season about maintaining or recovering spots for the Worlds and Olympics, this seems to be a big hyprocrisy. Either we have strategies for spots or we don't.

If you (they) don't care about spots then ok...I see your point. But if you are someone whining about spots, then you need to rethink the USFS criteria as valid.

I get that Ross is well liked and respected. I get that, I like him too. I wished he had been named first alternate and to the Worlds team. But this is a game of strategy to get those damn spots. Those damn spots you all talk about every single season.

I've got my chips and dips on standby for PyeongChang, anxiously waiting to see if Team USA's selection process will be one big hot mess faux pas or not.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Where did USFS call it the Olympic trials? There is nothing in anything official that says that.

They do NOT do that because they'd have to pay a licensing fee to USOC.

If ill informed commentators or journalists are saying that, it's not USFSA's fault. They also say "artistic mark" which isn't a thing either.

Given how everything is panning out, In 2022, US Nationals Olympic Trials may be held in a dumpster behind a restaurant in Portland.

 

[once_upon]

Oh we get it, you are pissed. But you are also throwing a big fit. If you have lost so much respect for USFSA - then quit watching skating for good.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Even Alexis Bledel was shocked by Olympic selection.

(But, I think she's been shocked for a while, now.)

 

[Vagabond]

Remember the days when a little-known athlete went to the Olympics and won a medal, possibly the first and only medal or title in their competitive career? How sweet was that? Very! Now, we have a micromanaged sport. May I see your resume, please? Sad. Very sad.

If you are asserting things have changed, give us an example of an American skater who won an Olympic medal who was "little-known".

I trust you realize that Weve3 didn't say the "little-known athlete" was an American skater.

Magda Julin, the 1920 Ladies' Olympic Gold Medalist in figure skating had apparently competed in one competition outside of Scandinavia (1913 Worlds) when she won in Antwerp. According to her Wikipedia entry, she "worked as a waitress and later ran a café and then a restaurant until 1971." And she was four months pregnant when she earned her OGM.

And no, I don't remember those days! Stop trying to get me to take some Geritol!

 

[pinky166]

What watered down field? The current entry list shows both Boyang Jin and Shoma Uno will be at 4CC. There's no way Ross Miner would beat them.

I didn’t realize that. I assumed none of the Olympic team members were going although now that I think of it, it makes sense that the skaters from Asia would, given 4CCs and the Olympics are in Asia too.

 

[Rafter]

Ruthless. But can’t say I’m surprised.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Where did USFS call it the Olympic trials? There is nothing in anything official that says that.

They do NOT do that because they'd have to pay a licensing fee to USOC.

If ill informed commentators or journalists are saying that, it's not USFSA's fault. They also say "artistic mark" which isn't a thing either.

General confusion probably stems from announcing the Olympic Team directly after conclusion of the US Nationals.

Thank goodness Australia's ladies' Olympic representative was selected prior to their National Championships, on the skater's 'body of work'. Given what a mess it had been in 2002, 2006, and 2014, I was relieved that issue had been sorted out in advance.

 

[skatingguy]

They should have waited and announced the team a few days from now. There will be plenty of media opportunities for the Olympic-bound skaters in the coming weeks, so I don't think the press conferences would have been missed.

 

[attyfan]

IMO, one major problem is that, for decades, the "body of work" was relevant only to the decision of whether to grant a requested medical bye...and event then, the idea of dumping the silver medalist, but keeping the bronze medalist was unheard of. This is simply too new a criteria for anyone to expect people to adjust to it so quickly.

Also, when people talk about the potential influence of this on future skaters: a distinction should be drawn between those kids already interested in skating now and those whose parents are learning about this decision. I don't think many people will pull their kids from a sport they might love. But, when people aware of this are picking sports classes or programs for their kids, there are enough reasons not to choose skating (the cost, for example) and this doesn't help move the balance to the other side.

 

[skatingguy]

Also, when people talk about the potential influence of this on future skaters: a distinction should be drawn between those kids already interested in skating now and those whose parents are learning about this decision. I don't think many people will pull their kids from a sport they might love. But, when people aware of this are picking sports classes or programs for their kids, there are enough reasons not to choose skating (the cost, for example) and this doesn't help move the balance to the other side.

I would put the parents into two categories - one those who put their children in skating because they want their kids to have fun and get some exercise. For these parents, whether their children become Olympians one day is not really in the thought process. In the other category are the parents who put their kids in a sport because they believe they will go to the Olympics (a small group to begin with), and these parents are going to believe that their child is going and there's probably nothing anyone could do or say, no matter how logical and well thought out, that would change their opinions.

 

[dawnie]

What if Nathan Chen bombed?

Well he didn't. Neither did Tennell. And that's why the "body of work"-stuff in reality is only for skaters that will finish 6-8 or something at Olympics.

That's the problem right there. The "body of work" argument should only be implemented for the Nathan Chens or the Michelle Kwans. Not some middle of the road skater who will be lucky to finish 6th-8th place.

 

[overedge]

I still think this is legitimate: if a skater is a world medalist the year before, or a GPF medalist, or is in the Top 5 in the ISU SB list for the current season, or has averaged a certain score in ISU competitions in the current season, or whatever the pre-defined criteria are, then I think it's perfectly legitimate to say that their body of work, ie, past results should be taken into consideration.

I'm not saying it's not legitimate to consider the body of work. What is unfair is to take it into consideration for some skaters but not others.

 

[PRlady]

If the person's account is public, you can always right click and open the link in an incognito tab to read it.



The comment he's replying to isn't the nicest, but I hardly think it represents "horrible skating twitter." It's perfectly civil. If that's the worst twitter abuse he's ever received he's really lucky.

It's not. He posts his liberal political views and gets trolled a lot by the right. Maybe he's naive enough to believe skating should be nicer than politics.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm not saying it's not legitimate to consider the body of work. What is unfair is to take it into consideration for some skaters but not others.

And that's where we disagree: I think that there are skaters and teams who have high enough results that they can be taken into consideration beyond the criteria. For example, Hanyu, who was unable to compete at Nationals, when Nationals placement was one of the criteria for selection to the Japanese team. (Second criteria was podium plus GPF or, if the silver and bronze medalists both did not make GPF, then WS, SB, and WR. Not Worlds, not GPF outside this season, not prior Nationals, not WS, SB, and WR without top Nationals placement.)

Hanyu was selected because he is the reigning Olympic champion, two-time World Champion and two-time silver World silver medalist, three-time GPF champion, and three-time National champion in this Olympic cycle. (Oddly, he's never won 4C's in three attempts, winning silver three times.)

Had Savchenko/Massot only skated in two qualifying events instead of three and had their total been less than Hocke/Blommaert and Hase/Seegert as a result, they'd have been rightly named to the Olympics team based on their Worlds, GPF, GP, etc. results.

One of the reasons for the arguments about the Men's selection is that there are those who don't think Rippon's results merited his Body of Work should have overcome his Nationals placement, and another is that Brown's results haven't warranted merited such consideration for his Body of Work. Because there isn't a clear numerical formula for assessing Body of Work in USFS's criteria anyway.

 

[MsZem]

Remember the days when a little-known athlete went to the Olympics and won a medal, possibly the first and only medal or title in their competitive career? How sweet was that? Very! Now, we have a micromanaged sport. May I see your resume, please? Sad. Very sad.

Has this ever happened in figure skating? The closest I can think of is Brian Joubert, who won his first - but not only - international medal at 2002 Europeans. Which led to him being sent to the Olympics instead of the French national champion, BTW.

But you meant all sports, right? Well, then: remember the time the world champion screwed up at the Olympic trials and was left off the team, and then broke the world record a few weeks later, won all the world championships leading up to the next Olympics, and finally got an OGM? Wouldn't it have been sweet if it had been two OGMs?

 

[Lanie]

One of the reasons for the arguments about the Men's selection is that there are those who don't think Rippon's results merited his Body of Work should have overcome his Nationals placement, and another is that Brown's results haven't warranted merited such consideration for his Body of Work. Because there isn't a clear numerical formula for assessing Body of Work in USFS's criteria anyway.

Yup, precisely. Were Ross third, I'd totally understand.

It seems USFS is using 'body of work' to just send whoever the fcuk they want to send. Even had Ross or Grant or Max pulled some impossible upset and won (I know, with Nathan it wouldn't happen, but), they wouldn't have been sent. They knew the team they wanted. I feel this way about ladies, though I think with the ladies it's a bit more understandable keeping Ashley off despite that World silver. Phil Hersh's suggestion of weighting the criteria (don't other feds do this?) seems sensible. They are using this 'body of work' thing for some and not for others. It's arbitrarily applied. And it is not fair to the athletes. Then a further slap in the face: 2nd alternate, even with a silver medal at Nationals. What does his achievement at Nationals mean, then? Nada.

I thought they'd leave Vincent off and send Nathan, Ross, and Adam, fwiw. Or give Ross Olympics, Adam Worlds. Something like that.

 

[nekkidgator]

Ironically, Paul Wylie in 1992, who really should not have been on the Olympic Team, given how he skated at the US Championships preceding it.

Although Paul was a shocking medalist in 1992, he was an Olympian in 1988, so I'd hardly say he was an unqualified new face on the scene or unknown nobody (go back and re-read what I was originally replying to for full context.)

 

[Karen-W]

Given how everything is panning out, In 2022, US Nationals Olympic Trials may be held in a dumpster behind a restaurant in Portland.

I'd be all about 2022 Nationals in Portland, and wouldn't care where the selection committee met to determine whose BOW had earned or not earned them an Olympic Team nomination. ;-)

 

[nekkidgator]

The GPF is usually expendable and dismissed until it is needed to justify an Oly team spot.

Maybe in a lot of Americans' eyes, yes. But as a young fan at the time, I learned a valuable lesson about Grand Prix Final in 1997-98 season (was it still called Champions Series Final then?) Tara Lipinski won with a clean program, just weeks before finishing 2nd to kwan at US Nationals. In most Americans eyes, Kwan was the one to beat in Nagano after her stirring programs in Philadelphia at Nationals. After Kwan skated cleanly at the Olympics (yes, the flip was clean if a tad bit wonky), I thought the gold was hers, case closed. But the International panel thought otherwise, rewarding their Series Final champion (more technical, less artistic) with the gold. The point is not to debate that win, but rather highlight when I learned how much more important international reputation and success was than just National success/popularity. So yes, since then, I have always considered the GPF a major competition. The fact that many on this board believe Nathan Chen to be an OGM contender (based on his success at grand prix final and grand prix events in general) is telling. Remember, he has never won a senior world medal. I'd argue also that Zagitova is an OGM threat in ladies, again based on grand prix events and grand prix final. It matters.

 

[nekkidgator]

How do you know? Brown was a favorite and he isn't on the team. Bradie wasn't a darling six months ago but two good competitions set the USFS community buzzing. Had Miner earned some medals and with a silver it would have even harder to bump him.
Before nationals there were the top five and there is every one else with no bow.
Bradie wasn't mentioned at the beginning but she changed the fed's mind herself.

I am thinking those who are upset want nationals to be the o trial again? If so that conversation is six months too late

So well said, both articulate and backed up with great facts. Bravo!!!

 

[nekkidgator]

I trust you realize that Weve3 didn't say the "little-known athlete" was an American skater.

Magda Julin, the 1920 Ladies' Olympic Gold Medalist in figure skating had apparently competed in one competition outside of Scandinavia (1913 Worlds) when she won in Antwerp. According to her Wikipedia entry, she "worked as a waitress and later ran a café and then a restaurant until 1971." And she was four months pregnant when she earned her OGM.

And no, I don't remember those days! Stop trying to get me to take some Geritol!

Point taken...given tv and internet didn't exist in 1920, Id argue all the competitors were little known except to the few judges that existed. As for assuming an American skater, I did assume this. This is a thread almost 100% about the selection of the American team, and our replies back and forth in my mind were about the USFSA and Ross Miner. Did I miss something?

Ultimately, I think all of us appreciate being able to view competitions on tv and internet, even the "smaller" competitions if we are interested to do so (like Zagreb, Nebelhorn, etc). But in doing so, no Olympic medalist will ever again be a complete unknown to those within the sport. I'm ok with that trade-off.

 

[MsZem]

Magda Julin, the 1920 Ladies' Olympic Gold Medalist in figure skating had apparently competed in one competition outside of Scandinavia (1913 Worlds) when she won in Antwerp. According to her Wikipedia entry, she "worked as a waitress and later ran a café and then a restaurant until 1971." And she was four months pregnant when she earned her OGM.

That's interesting. Apparently the bronze medalist in 1920 was the only lady in the field to attempt jumps, and the judges marked her down because it was considered inappropriate

But Julin's Wikipedia bio does show Nordic competitions, not just national ones, so it doesn't quite fit what Weve3 was getting at. And there weren't many opportunities for anyone to compete between 1914 and 1918.

 

[jlai]

And that's where we disagree: I think that there are skaters and teams who have high enough results that they can be taken into consideration beyond the criteria. For example, Hanyu, who was unable to compete at Nationals, when Nationals placement was one of the criteria for selection to the Japanese team. (Second criteria was podium plus GPF or, if the silver and bronze medalists both did not make GPF, then WS, SB, and WR. Not Worlds, not GPF outside this season, not prior Nationals, not WS, SB, and WR without top Nationals placement.)

Hanyu was selected because he is the reigning Olympic champion, two-time World Champion and two-time silver World silver medalist, three-time GPF champion, and three-time National champion in this Olympic cycle. (Oddly, he's never won 4C's in three attempts, winning silver three times.)

Had Savchenko/Massot only skated in two qualifying events instead of three and had their total been less than Hocke/Blommaert and Hase/Seegert as a result, they'd have been rightly named to the Olympics team based on their Worlds, GPF, GP, etc. results.

One of the reasons for the arguments about the Men's selection is that there are those who don't think Rippon's results merited his Body of Work should have overcome his Nationals placement, and another is that Brown's results haven't warranted merited such consideration for his Body of Work. Because there isn't a clear numerical formula for assessing Body of Work in USFS's criteria anyway.

Having been around FSU like forever I have come to learn that people would be upset if USFS went with national finish ala the Johnny weir in 2009. If there were numerical weights to criteria people would get upset over the weights. The bitching goes on, just differently.

 

[jlai]

Yup, precisely. Were Ross third, I'd totally understand.

It seems USFS is using 'body of work' to just send whoever the fcuk they want to send. Even had Ross or Grant or Max pulled some impossible upset and won (I know, with Nathan it wouldn't happen, but), they wouldn't have been sent. They knew the team they wanted. I feel this way about ladies, though I think with the ladies it's a bit more understandable keeping Ashley off despite that World silver. Phil Hersh's suggestion of weighting the criteria (don't other feds do this?) seems sensible. They are using this 'body of work' thing for some and not for others. It's arbitrarily applied. And it is not fair to the athletes. Then a further slap in the face: 2nd alternate, even with a silver medal at Nationals. What does his achievement at Nationals mean, then? Nada.

I thought they'd leave Vincent off and send Nathan, Ross, and Adam, fwiw. Or give Ross Olympics, Adam Worlds. Something like that.

I find the whole us judging at this national to be suspect enough that I keep wondering about what would have happened if the event was judged by an international panel. Perhaps if the us judging gets on with the times and actually ding urs and edge calls more strictly, I would be rooting for just us nationals being the sole criterion. But us judging has been generous for years and sometimes too generous with their sentimental favorites. For that reason I am ok with not using just nationals.

Where do you get bow being applied for some and not others? They are applying bow evenly, and even harshly as in winner of bow takes all. That is what upsets people! They want consolation prize for grant and Ross. I get that, but if bow is applied all the way this IS all the way! And it is harsh. The reason Grant and Ross are not considered was that ross has no international hardware for the two years covered by the criteria. Grant has one sen B medal nearly a year and a half ago ago and he was near the bottom in all the gps for the same period. Going into nationals, yes the results were predetermined to some extent but the athletes predetermined them by their international showing. Was grant being held back for an assignment and couldn't show how great he could be? Or did USFS fix those results to pick whoever they want?

Bow is for the last two years, so Ashley's silver at 2016 counts for zero. It is clear in the criteria. If you read Jackie Wong's sheet Saturday night you know it looks bad for grant and Ross.

I am fine with weights but knowing this forum people will gripe no matter what USFS uses. Next time they use weights and the fury will be about the weights nex time. The complaints don't ever stop.
The complaints will stop only if they pick who the fans think they will pick.

I don't agree with all the assignments fwiw. But the Olympic team is a clearly justifiable choice given the criteria. I do sympathize with the complaints about Max getting 4cc or Ross being second alternate though. It is very harsh.

 

[Jarrett]

I find the whole us judging at this national to be suspect enough that I keep wondering about what would have happened if the event was judged by an international panel. Perhaps if the us judging gets on with the times and actually ding urs and edge calls more strictly, I would be rooting for just us nationals being the sole criterion. But us judging has been generous for years and sometimes too generous with their sentimental favorites. For that reason I am ok with not using just nationals.

I have never really understood the footwork sequence calls at Nationals. I feel like most skaters are given level 4 but never/rarely ever receive them internationally.

 

[Jeschke]

Ross, always my boy!
Nothing more to add!
#untilthebitterend

 

[4rkidz]

Isn't nationals each year, about winning a medal at the national level? Getting nominated to the Olympic team is something additional. Ross can be VERY proud of his long program and silver medal, despite not being named to the team. He has won a national medal, and in great style.

Agreed, luckily the skaters themselves seem to be acting maturely especially as they knew the criteria which was deemed necessary because of the team event. By making all the dramatic claims in this thread it really is taking away from the actual nationals event. I hope no skater ever reads threads like this.