Harvey Weinstein megaproducer and executive ousted over sexual harassment

[snoopy]

I don't believe you guys. Not for a second. You are only defending trump's lewd behavior because he is a republican. No way would you condone it, if he weren't.

Me? I don't want our presidents acting crassly and our congressmen showing their privates.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Now that is funny. For sure Weiner is a Winner.

Weiner... Weinstein.... 3rd generation German Jewish guys are causing sex crime wave..... not sure i am happy.... ... making a mental note: if you meet a Liberal Jewish man with familia name starting with Wein, run.....!

I don't believe you guys. Not for a second. You are only defending trump's lewd behavior because he is a republican. No way would you condone it, if he weren't..

bull! i condone ALL lewd sexual behavior.. between consenting adults and pref. if they keep it private. I defended Bill Clinton's right to have affairs as long as he takes them to a hotel and not the WH.... I even offended "Americans" a while back, calling them prudes compared to Europe where politicians who are divorced, single, married to models and grand-mothers, etc...

 

[Wyliefan]

It's worth reading Farrow's account in the New Yorker again:

Virtually all of the people I spoke with told me that they were frightened of retaliation. “If Harvey were to discover my identity, I’m worried that he could ruin my life,” one former employee told me. Many said that they had seen Weinstein’s associates confront and intimidate those who crossed him, and feared that they would be similarly targeted. Four actresses, including Mira Sorvino and Rosanna Arquette, told me they suspected that, after they rejected Weinstein’s advances or complained about them to company representatives, Weinstein had them removed from projects or dissuaded people from hiring them. Multiple sources said that Weinstein frequently bragged about planting items in media outlets about those who spoke against him; these sources feared similar retribution. Several pointed to Gutierrez’s case: after she went to the police, negative items discussing her sexual history and impugning her credibility began rapidly appearing in New York gossip pages.

 

[AxelAnnie]

It's worth reading Farrow's account in the New Yorker again:

So they sold themselves out. Her career was more important to her than her dignity.

 

[Wyliefan]

Your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired.

 

[susan6]

My daughter and I have had lots of discussions about women who are abused, why they don't report, and men who abuse over and over. I have learned a lot. And it has widened my perspective.

You haven't learned enough. NO ONE took the rumors and accusations about Cosby and Weinstein seriously until there was a critical mass of dozens of women who came forward. (Heck, no one took the Cosby incidents seriously until a MALE comedian commented on it on stage.) So, these guys got away with victimizing women for years, making the women think they were completely isolated in this situation, and threatening their careers. If they do come forward, they're called liars or delusional or gold-diggers and no one believes them. If enough of them come forward to the point where people realize the guy is actually scum....what happens to the victims? They get slut-shamed by horrible judgemental people like you.

 

[MsZem]

Yeap..... I even think it is OK for a Democrat Congressman Anthony Weiner to show his tool on social media, IF the women were not under-aged...

I don't know what Twitter's terms of service would say about that. But the point you insist on missing is that consent matters. A woman's choice to have a sexually provacative persona is not an invitation for men to proposition her, it is not a justification for harassment, and it certainly shouldn't be used to excuse sexual predators of any political affiliation.

If certain men can't control themselves in public, they should stay home.

 

[MacMadame]

Vanity Fair
This is a list of some of the most famous and powerful women in the world.

They weren't powerful when these incidents happened. They were at the beginning of their careers and vulnerable. This includes Jolie. They were in a system where this sort of behavior was known and common. Maybe the others who did this weren't as vindictive or violent as Weinstein but the exploitation and implying that, if you don't go along with it, your career will be over, was there.

 

[snoopy]

bull! i condone ALL lewd sexual behavior.. between consenting adults and pref. if they keep it private.

We were talking about public comments and behavior. Which you explicitly defended when you were talking about Trump.

Changing the rules already.

 

[snoopy]

She doesn't care. It's always the women's fault.

And BTW, it was reported Jolie *did* warn people in the industry from the very beginning. How did these comedians make Weinstein jokes if people weren't talking about it?

Sexually harassing someone on the job is a civil offense not a criminal one, so no, you don't just call the cops because your boss propositions you or threatens your job for sex. And Weinstein WAS sued for his behavior. People DID try to do something about. It was in his contract that he had to pay all lawsuits against the company. His company KNEW about it and his board of directors did not fire him. They just made him pay back for any lawsuits.

I won't hold my breath waiting for Axle Annie to criticize the primarily male board of directors for not doing anything about Weinstein.

Because money is all that matters. Women don't. That's the reason women always get blamed. Because they're usually not the ones with the money.

http://amp.tmz.com/2017/10/12/weins...tein-company-sexual-harassment-firing-illegal

They weren't powerful when these incidents happened. They were at the beginning of their careers and vulnerable. This includes Jolie. They were in a system where this sort of behavior was known and common. Maybe the others who did this weren't as vindictive or violent as Weinstein but the exploitation and implying that, if you don't go along with it, your career will be over, was there.

 

[aftershocks]

I had the exact same reaction to the Judi Dench story!

But reading the article, it was Judi herself who relayed the anecdote regarding a fake tatoo ['JD loves HW'] that she had someone temporarily scrawl on her behind as a practical joke she played on Harvey Weinstein. However shocking it might be, quite clearly Judi Dench was apparently not involved in any sexual harassment incident with Weinstein, which the posting of the article, and your reaction to it, suggests. While Judi's behavior sounds scandalous when coupled with knowledge of Weinstein's crude behavior toward young female actors, there's no indication that Judi was aware of Weinstein's bullying and sexual abuse. Weinstein's actions are beyond reprehensible, but there are obviously many reasons why it went on for so long, including a general atmosphere of being beholden to a deep-pocketed career-maker, coercion, money, power, good 'ol boy behavior being condoned, lack of direct knowledge, fear on the part of victims, cowardice by those with some snippets of direct knowledge, corruption, disbelief, patriarchal culture, misogyny, unwitting enabling, culpable enabling, etc.

I would imagine that many of us are aware of situations in our own lives or in the lives of someone we know where we may have been confronted with less than appropriate behavior by a person of either gender in a workplace environment or social setting. It's possible that we or the persons we know escaped relatively unscathed, or not. This type of stuff does not just go on in Hollywood, in corporate workplaces and in social settings, it also goes on unfortunately within families, and in churches, as perpetrated by adults against innocent and powerless children.

Within all kinds of industries, institutions and social environments, there may exist varying levels of sexual predation, culpability, victimization, complicity, actual knowledge or suspicion, rumor, inappropriate flirting to tempt and entice, or outright coercion and contemptible, horrific acts of abuse, blackmail and quid pro quo. The more light that is shed and calling out of abuses by people in power, the better. The 2015 film Spotlight shed light on one of the darkest and most reprehensible hidden secrets of child sexual abuse. What's most affecting about that fact-based film is not just the decades it took for the story to come to enterprising reporters' attention, and not just their dedication and grinding, unforgiving work in trying to unravel the story. The most gut-wrenching and affecting thing is how the newspaper and the reporters came to realize that they too were somehow complicit in the cover-up that had gone on for decades, and how the entire community, not just TPTB in the Catholic Church, were also complicit mostly unwittingly, unwillingly, carelessly, uneasily, or fearfully, but still complicit.

For further reflection, there's the Bible verse John 8:7, that cautions us to think twice re 'casting the first stone.' IOW, these terrible incidents should not be used as an opportunity for anyone to sit atop a high horse, politically, morally or otherwise.

 

[Jenny]

You do know that Weinstein was a huge money bundler for the Democratic Party. He bundled millions for Obama, Clinton, and Clinton, and many people in congress.
Shame on the women that did not lodge a police report. They were evidently willing to sell themselves (literally) for a part or a movie or a career. Shame on them.

You are one shockingly nasty woman. Shame, shame, shame on you.

I wonder if your daughter now advocates for women because you don't.

There's a lot of reasons why someone might not file a report. There is ZERO excuse to shame those women who were victims of a predator.

Time and time again, right up until this day, women and girls who come forward are treated like whores who asked for it and deserved whatever happened to them, by HR departments (including the Weinstein company's), colleges, police and nasty women like AxelAnnie. If they do get to court, they must defend themselves of every action taken before, during and after the incident, and indeed going back their entire lives. Men are allowed mistakes and questionable behaviour; women are not.

There are so, so many reasons victims do not report, and above is probably #1. As others have pointed out, there are many others - including feeling isolated with no support, confusion about what exactly did happen, and vagueness of the law and various campus/workplace policies. There's fear of being blacklisted not just by one person or company, but by the entire fraternity of powerful people who won't touch someone who speaks out and threatens legal action aka bad publicity.

And what's one young actress against the kind of legal and PR team that a billionaire has? The legal process can be long and very, very costly, which is why many people take settlements instead, or do nothing once they realize that police will not help them. Even the DA has said about the model who wore the wire, "we didn't think we could win a case, so we didn't pursue it." Apparently winning is more important than justice.

And perhaps the most heartbreaking reason of all why victims do not speak up: by history and by men, and by terrible women like AxelAnnie, women are conditioned to think it is their fault. That they must have done something wrong, or somehow caused it. This horrible, secret guilt, and the lack of support, has kept women quiet and will continue to do so.

Japanfan - If Angelina Jolie, who has one of the largest platforms to speak out keeps silent there is no hope for the rest of us.

She was absolutely not silent, and to your many other incredibly narrow minded reasonings, she did not sacrifice her morals for her career. She refused to work with the Weinstein company, and has continued to advise other women of the same. Just because she didn't put out a press release or give an interview about it, doesn't mean she didn't do anything.

Many companies have policies and procedures around these issues.

This is a key point. Numerous witnesses are saying that the Weinstein HR company was useless - they simply reported any complaint back to Weinstein himself.

I have to hope that there are more Taylor Swifts out there - not just who speak up, but who have the power and resources to take on the biassed establishment. Even as she eloquently defended herself, there were those (comments in media articles) who criticized her use of the word "ass" in testimony and of wearing the wrong clothes at trial and not being demure enough!

But she stuck to it, and won. Now, with Hollywood's most influential actresses (and some actors as well, bravo) coming forward, we can hope that the next generation of women this happens to will have somewhere to turn, and the confidence to speak louder than dinosaurs like AxelAnnie.

 

[Wyliefan]

But reading the article, it was Judi herself who relayed the anecdote regarding a fake tatoo ['JD loves HW'] that she had someone temporarily scrawl on her behind as a practical joke she played on Harvey Weinstein. However shocking it might be, quite clearly Judi Dench was apparently not involved in any sexual harassment incident with Weinstein, which the posting of the article, and your reaction to it, suggests. While Judi's behavior sounds scandalous when coupled with knowledge of Weinstein's crude behavior toward young female actors, there's no indication that Judi was aware of Weinstein's bullying and sexual abuse. Weinstein's actions are beyond reprehensible, but there are obviously many reasons why it went on for so long, including a general atmosphere of being beholden to a deep-pocketed career-maker, coercion, money, power, good 'ol boy behavior being condoned, lack of direct knowledge, fear on the part of victims, cowardice by those with some snippets of direct knowledge, corruption, disbelief, patriarchal culture, misogyny, unwitting enabling, culpable enabling, etc.

I would imagine that many of us are aware of situations in our own lives or in the lives of someone we know where we may have been confronted with less than appropriate behavior by a person of either gender in a workplace environment or social setting. It's possible that we or the persons we know escaped relatively unscathed, or not. This type of stuff does not just go on in Hollywood, in corporate workplaces and in social settings, it also goes on unfortunately within families, and in churches, as perpetrated by adults against innocent and powerless children.

Within all kinds of industries, institutions and social environments, there may exist varying levels of sexual predation, culpability, victimization, complicity, actual knowledge or suspicion, rumor, inappropriate flirting to tempt and entice, or outright coercion and contemptible, horrific acts of abuse, blackmail and quid pro quo. The more light that is shed and calling out of abuses by people in power, the better. The 2015 film Spotlight shed light on one of the darkest and most reprehensible hidden secrets of child sexual abuse. What's most affecting about that fact-based film is not just the decades it took for the story to come to enterprising reporters' attention, and not just their dedication and grinding, unforgiving work in trying to unravel the story. The most gut-wrenching and affecting thing is how the newspaper and the reporters came to realize that they too were somehow complicit in the cover-up that had gone on for decades, and how the entire community, not just TPTB in the Catholic Church, were also complicit mostly unwittingly, unwillingly, carelessly, uneasily, or fearfully, but still complicit.

For further reflection, there's the Bible verse John 8:7, that cautions us to think twice re 'casting the first stone.' IOW, these terrible incidents should not be used as an opportunity for anyone to sit atop a high horse, politically, morally or otherwise.

My only reaction to the Judi Dench story was because I thought it was weird to get a tattoo like that on your butt. (I hadn't heard it was a temporary tattoo and a practical joke.) That's all. I didn't say or think that Dench had also been harassed or assaulted.

 

[Jenny]

And here's another one - how is one woman supposed to fight a man so powerful that his behaviour is not only known, but accepted to the point that it's in his employment contract? Who cannot lose his job no matter how he behaves with women, as long as he pays the settlements and a fine back into the company coffers - from which his immense wealth comes in the first place?

 

[AxelAnnie]

Jenny...I am glad that I don't think women are as weak and defenseless as you do.

 

[VGThuy]

LA Times article about sexual harassment in the industry:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-hollywood-sexual-harassment-20171012-story.html

 

[Jenny]

Jenny...I am glad that I don't think women are as weak and defenseless as you do.

And again you prove that your reading and comprehension skills are zero.

 

[Tinami Amori]

We were talking about public comments and behavior. Which you explicitly defended when you were talking about Trump. Changing the rules already.

There is a difference between "defending" and acknowledging that "lewd public comments and behavior" are now part of an acceptable FORM OF ENTERTAINMENT and MASS CULTURE, exhibited on stage and in public even by women themselves who claim to be "feminists". Rappers, for examples have been called on it for quite a long time, but it did not stop them. Do i like it? no. Is such taking place? yes.

And again you prove that your reading and comprehension skills are zero.

I don't agree that AA has "reading comprehension issues". But since you mentioned it, so are some posters who lean to the left...

There is no reason to insult Axel Annie if you don't agree with her. That's bulling. If you think she is wrong in her thinking then state your objections. And it's not just you but all who like to attack her.

It is clear and understandable why many women don't speak out. It's not just women; men end up in such situations too; sometimes straight men, who are pursued by another man in power with a different sexual orientation. These men have another variable to add to a standard set of reasons why not to report: accusations of homophobia. In Visconti/Delon situation, Delon is not only straight, he is also anti-same-sex-marriage, yet paid "his price" to Visconti for making him a star.

And there are situations when women in power positions, who feel "recently empowered" want to "do what men do", and behave inappropriately with men, straight or gay. Regardless of orientation, when a man complains about being harassed by a "woman", he is pretty much laughed at.... Priests harass and rape boys, Female prison guards harass and rape male prisoners.. There are many variations of harassment regardless of "sex and gender combinations"....

Enough with "we, women are weak victims of men". If this message continues, women will continue to think that "they are weaker". There is such thing as rape and sexual harassment. But it is not "men vs. women". That is not a healthy message.

As to not speaking out in fear of loosing employment/career and being publicly ridiculed, and going against the wave or majority? Well.... that's a personal choice. People stood up for their believes (political religious social) putting their lives and freedom on the line, and some were crucified, burned, jailed, ostracized and banished from countries and societies in times when laws defending them did not exist.

I'll risk and say that "becoming a movie star" is a glamour job. There are many regular jobs which "aspiring starlets" can do to earn a decent living. No it does not give "Weinsteins/Cosbys/etc" a right to harass and rape them! But it is a consideration "to speak out or not". If the price of stardom is "doing it with a fat hippo in a closet", and one is not willing to fight it legally, then consider another occupation....

The big name stars, Jolie, Palthrow, Sorvino, etc., were multi-millionairesses for quite sometime. Their living, even if they don't ever work again, did not depend on Weinstein or any "man who's engaged in criminal harassment of women".... and yet they "took care of their own situation" and did not do much further, until recent eruption which was NOT brought by them. I would be fine with their choice of conduct, IF AND ONLY IF they did not proclaim to be "fighters for justice including women's rights".

 

[Jenny]

Enough with "we, women are weak victims of men". If this message continues, women will continue to think that "they are weaker". There is such thing as rape and sexual harassment. But it is not "men vs. women". That is not a healthy message.

Agree that it's not the way it should be. However, it's the way it is. Overwhelmingly, it is women who are victimized by men, not the other way around. And as for who is weak - physically, as a whole, men are bigger and stronger and more inclined to use their size and strength to get their way or when confronted than women. Not all of course, but as a whole. But emotionally, I agree that it's not as cut and dry. For example, the women who have endured this and are coming forward now (and some men who are now revealing their own experiences on the casting couch) are strong. The men who use their power to intimidate or harm women are weak.

 

[Tinami Amori]

And as for who is weak - physically, as a whole, men are bigger and stronger and more inclined to use their size and strength to get their way or when confronted than women.

Honestly? i know this sounds rude, but just kick them in balls if they grab you. kicking or taking them to court would still make them "your enemy"... if a woman decides she will not put up with such conduct and is willing to make an enemy, might as well not get grabbed right then and there.

There are many articles and information about self-defense in such cases. This option should become a norm and subject of open conversation in society, and not hidden out of site or on a back-shelf as "alternative option".

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201407/self-defense-training-helps-stop-rape

One can never rely just on "current laws", being pro-active is best.... laws change all the time and some of them stink... There is a saying in Russia "на обиженных воду возят"... kind of like "Moscow does not believe in tears" or "If you act like you're kicked all the time, people will kick you all the time".

 

[Jenny]

Doesn't sound rude. And while I think most would agree it's perfectly acceptable to fight back physically when physically attacked, in much of the testimony in this case, there was no physical contact. Women have described Weinstein exposing himself, asking them to watch him shower, asking to give or receive massages, offering drinks to underage girls, getting them alone in his hotel rooms. Is it appropriate for someone to kick someone in the balls based on any of this behaviour?

Likely not, particularly since he would then have physical evidence of an assault by them on him, while they would have no more than their word to justify it.

For those who were physically attacked, yes kicking him in the balls or otherwise fighting back physically would be options. But what if you are a small woman with a very large man holding you down? Surprising you from behind? Holding your wrists or throat? Cornering you in such a way that you cannot lift you knee or otherwise fight back?

Even if you have training, if it's never happened to you, how do we know how any of us will react? Will adrenalin kick in, or will we be scared motionless? Will we yell and scream, or stay in mute shock? Will we make the most effective physical moves, or will we flail helplessly? Some training also focuses on evasion and escape - the best option may be to try and get out as fast as possible, especially in a hotel room where public space is seconds away.

Let us also remember that Weinstein is a repeat offender and ready for all forms of resistance. For his victims, it's a different story.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Doesn't sound rude. And while I think most would agree it's perfectly acceptable to fight back physically when physically attacked, in much of the testimony in this case, there was no physical contact. Women have described Weinstein exposing himself, asking them to watch him shower, asking to give or receive massages, offering drinks to underage girls, getting them alone in his hotel rooms. Is it appropriate for someone to kick someone in the balls based on any of this behaviour?

No. but it is appropriate to walk out.

But what if you are a small woman with a very large man holding you down? Surprising you from behind? Holding your wrists or throat? Cornering you in such a way that you cannot lift you knee or otherwise fight back?

Fighting back is better then not fighting back. In case of Weinstein, he blocked and intimidated, but in situations where women objected he begged and acted like a sap. So in his case, i doubt he would get violent beyond initial try.

 

[watchthis!!]

It looks like this thread has become a new topic, so I started another thread: How To Succesfully Deal With Harrassment

Here is the link to that thread:

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/how-to-successfully-deal-with-harrassment.102013/

What I posted to start off the thread:

Looked like the Weinstein thread was no longer about Weinstein any more, so I thought I'd start a thread to deal with the topic of harrassment.

Any articles or websites or organizations that you are aware of and would suggest people refer to, please post links.

If you have any experiences involving successfully dealing with harrassment or know someone who has had success and are okay with you sharing their story, please do so if you are comfortable with that.

Any other thoughts you have about having to work through something like this that you are able to share...who knows who it might end up helping.

 

[watchthis!!]

Rose McGowan says: 'HW raped me'
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/rose-mcgowan-apos-account-suspended-135642325.html

Her twitter account had been suspended for posting a phone number (which is against the rules). But when the suspension was over, she came back with her blunt truth about what Weinstein did. Even though when she settled a lawsuit against him, she agreed to be silent about certain details. Guess she figures now that the settlement was not worth remaining quiet.

McGowan has also called Ben Affleck a liar, saying he was aware of some of the wrong-doings of Weinstein.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

I'll risk and say that "becoming a movie star" is a glamour job. There are many regular jobs which "aspiring starlets" can do to earn a decent living. No it does not give "Weinsteins/Cosbys/etc" a right to harass and rape them! But it is a consideration "to speak out or not". If the price of stardom is "doing it with a fat hippo in a closet", and one is not willing to fight it legally, then consider another occupation....

What occupations are free of sexual harassment? I have no doubt that some of Weinstein's victims stuck it out because they'd been harassed at previous regular jobs and expected they were just as likely to be harassed at the next one, too.

 

[MacMadame]

I don't think any are free, but some are worse than others. The entertainment industry is notorious for it as it is an industry with huge power differentials.

 

[Tinami Amori]

What occupations are free of sexual harassment? I have no doubt that some of Weinstein's victims stuck it out because they'd been harassed at previous regular jobs and expected they were just as likely to be harassed at the next one, too.

Some professions are less "cliquish" or not cliquish at all, so if you leave one job because of harassment, you're more likely to get another in another location, unlike in the world of "the Hollywood Power of Weinstein, who can make one phone call...".

Basically, any person who is sexually harassed, has 4 options (at present, given current laws) and maybe some variations of the following:
- accept advances, to keep job/get roles/promotion/various favors.
- resist advances, complain to authorities/EEOC/Police/take to court to punish the abuser and insist on keeping the job (if chose to).
- resist advances, leave and not complain.
- threaten the abuser and get a private settlement.

There are no other options until a special Government agency is established with rules, regulations and procedures, to address specifically such situations in every industry in detail. There are such gov. agencies for Child and Spousal Abuse.... and yet EEOC is too general for the sexual harassment issues.

Madonna should stop thinking about burning down White House and spend some time and money on a specific cause perhaps...

 

[PeterG]

Ben Affleck apologizes for sexually harassing Hilarie Burton

Ben Affleck has apologized to Hilarie Burton for groping her during an appearance on TRL. The actor posted his apology shortly after releasing a statement condemning Harvey Weinstein, who has been accused of sexual harassment by several women, spanning over three decades.

One of Burton's comments was, "I had to laugh back then so I wouldn't cry".

I find it somewhat strange the other day when Affleck said something about wondering what he could do to keep this from happening to other women. I wondered, "how about not cheating on the woman you agree to love, cherish and obey"? And setting a good example for your children on how a man should act?

 

[Aussie Willy]

And here's another one - how is one woman supposed to fight a man so powerful that his behaviour is not only known, but accepted to the point that it's in his employment contract? Who cannot lose his job no matter how he behaves with women, as long as he pays the settlements and a fine back into the company coffers - from which his immense wealth comes in the first place?

That is interesting and appalling.

Jenny...I am glad that I don't think women are as weak and defenseless as you do.

I don't think it has anything to do with women being weak and defenseless. You can never judge how an individual is going to react in any given situation, even when it is totally inappropriate and wrong. But again that is an attitude blaming the victims rather than holding the perpetrator to account. Men must change they way they are. It should not be about people being called out on when they are doing the wrong thing.

 

[AxelAnnie]

That is interesting and appalling.


I don't think it has anything to do with women being weak and defenseless. You can never judge how an individual is going to react in any given situation, even when it is totally inappropriate and wrong. But again that is an attitude blaming the victims rather than holding the perpetrator to account. Men must change they way they are. It should not be about people being called out on when they are doing A the wrong thing.

I am a little confused about the end of your post. But you are correct that men must change, and need to be held to account. Hence my comment about the women who just let it slide. I am not blaming them for what happened with a yucky, disgusting man, only for them not handling it, and keeping silent.

Women are not weak and simpering. We are tough cookies who have the ability to bring these scumbags down.