Papadakis CIzeron #4 - Happiness Does Not Wait

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kittysk8ts said:
Nope. Discussed upthread with @Miloune :) Haha. These costumes are beautiful and elegant. Guillaume has a real talent there. So special. Someone said he designed Laurence's flamenco FD dress which is one my faves this season so far and their FD too.
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Hehe !!:rollin:
I'll just say that I reserve my jugdement for when we have a really good video of that program... (and of Guillaume's chest hair! :inavoid:)
 
Thanks for that close up picture. It confirms that I really don't like Guillaume's shirt.
 
supergirl573 said:
Well he needs some double-sided tape. Getting a deduction for a wardrobe malfunction for a nip-slip would be really dumb.
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Have nip-slips ever really received a deduction? I've seen a lot of them over the years but never a deduction for them.
 
I think maybe the judges understand some times wedgies can't be helped but nip slips for the most can be.
 
And it would be insane to lose a placement because of a nip slip. I'm all for a change or double sided tape!
 
I don't care about the shirt, even if I admit it distrubed me, and I don't like it.
Their skating is simply phenomenal, so light, precise and classy. It's always a pleasure to watch them, and this new program is another joy to watch ;)
 
I don't think there is anything wrong with his top. Seems like his take on an understated ballet blouse to match her understated dress.
I´m becoming amused by all the costume critiques in the various forums that I am reading. I understand when a costume doesn't match a theme or is really unflattering on a skater ruining their lines and detracting from the choreography but this looks like a very typical Guillaume style and very much him.
 
When I first heard the music choices alone, my initial thoughts were along the lines of "OK well I guess V/M don't really want to win....or... they must be planning to have a 5 pt lead after SD...."

Now I see both programs and I'm a touch more pleasantly surprised with V/M and less blown away over P/C than I thought.

But yes, it's early and we're looking at imperfect execution and videos. Both programs will grow a LOT and costumes, choreo and even elements will change. What I can at least now say is that as of right now, this stands to be a very tight race in Korea. Advantage: no one. Game on.
 
Not a fan of his shirt either... why elongate what is already long? And no chest hair please... she looks lovely, though.

I thought I would love this program. Definitely not the case so far. I am more "meh" about it, actually. Some parts are great, but at times I felt the music was playing and they were nowhere near skating to it... too fast for them maybe? However, like all the other programs out there, i am sure it will get much better over the coming months and look forward to having my opinion changed.
 
cocotaffy said:
Thanks for clarifying, I was wondering what you were referring to. So this is interesting because on GS I was wondering who else skated on Moonlight apart of course G/G. We came up with an exhibition piece from Uzova/Platov but being an EX I wouldn't really count it. Then there is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUcsqOnXKgE :scream:
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Hmm, I actually really enjoy Faiella/Scali's Moonlight Sonata. It definitely has a point of view, and is telling a story more specifically than P/C's version. Does anyone know if it's inspired by Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire? That was my immediate first thought when the program started.
Two separate stagings of Pierrot Lunaire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH7OnSOHBWg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5DNxRG2-ow (just Mondestrunken)
 
firstflight said:
Hmm, I actually really enjoy Faiella/Scali's Moonlight Sonata. It definitely has a point of view, and is telling a story more specifically than P/C's version. Does anyone know if it's inspired by Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire
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Or Melies's. (1905)
Or Albert Giraud's poems (1884)
While Pedrolino is a character from the commedia de l'arte, along with Harlequin and Paggliacci, Pierrot Lunaire became a star in francophone territories at the end of the the 19th century and still is, along with Colombine, his sweetheart.
 
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lily said:
Fantastic programs, so beautiful but is it enough against Virtue-Moir...
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I prefer Papadakis and Cizeron by a trillion to Virtue and Moir but as much as I love their Moonlight Sonata, I do worry that some might just think another lyrical program from them and maybe some won’t think it has the same impact that Moulin Rouge has. I’m sure Moonlight Sonata will grow though as the season goes on.
 
That's a beautiful free dance. I have to admit that I groaned when I heard they were going to skate to Moonlight Sonata. But they do it justice.

I love how they skate with such ease and flow, especially Cizeron coming in and out of lifts and other moves. But comparing it to V&M's Moulin Rouge FD (which I don't care for at this moment BTW because of the music) their handholds seem more open, especially in the first section. I hate to sound negative but as beautiful as this FD is, there were times where I felt like I'm watching a pairs LP but without side by side jumps or throws.

It's early in the season though so who knows what either of these free dances will look like when the Olympics come around.
 
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gk_891 said:
But comparing it to V&M's Moulin Rouge FD (which I don't care for at this moment BTW because of the music) their handholds seem more open, especially in the first section. I hate to sound negative but as beautiful as this FD is, there were times where I felt like I'm watching a pairs LP but without side by side jumps or throws.

It's early in the season though so who knows what either of these free dances will look like when the Olympics come around.
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gk_891, I agree that it looks like a very beautiful pairs LP. Not only are the holds very open, they spend a lot of time skating next to each other, not touching at all. I know there were many rule changes made since the last quad to loosen things up, so I wonder if there is anything specifying how much time you need to be in hold now in ice dance? Maybe it's not necessary anymore.
 
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sap5 said:
gk_891, I agree that it looks like a very beautiful pairs LP. Not only are the holds very open, they spend a lot of time skating next to each other, not touching at all. I know there were many rule changes made since the last quad to loosen things up, so I wonder if there is anything specifying how much time you need to be in hold now in ice dance? Maybe it's not necessary anymore.
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But doesn't that lower the difficulty? Handholds were always so important in ice dance and they should remain so as skating within complex handholds as opposed to side by side or hand to hand is what largely separates pairs from ice dancers.

I'm not well versed on how ice dancing is judged today so maybe there is something in the rules now so that it's not necessary to skate within complex holds these days. If so, that's not a good thing IMO.
 
Well, people have been wanting ice dance to go closer to what it was back in 1989-1992. If that's the case, then the loosening of the rules is a step in the right direction. All the changes of holds requirements are for the step sequences now. In the SD, contact has to be constant in the partial step. Of course, teams need to be in near constant contact except for twizzles and of course they're allowed some time to be separated. But ice dance has been pretty open for a while and thus we haven't seen the intricate and constant changes of close holds that used to exist in ice dance. However, that was a case for a long time.
 
gk_891 said:
But doesn't that lower the difficulty? Handholds were always so important in ice dance and they should remain so as skating within complex handholds as opposed to side by side or hand to hand is what largely separates pairs from ice dancers.

I'm not well versed on how ice dancing is judged today so maybe there is something in the rules now so that it's not necessary to skate within complex holds these days. If so, that's not a good thing IMO.
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It does lower the difficulty. But I thought that was one of the points of the rule changes. Maybe I should move this over to the Dance Hall thread to see if someone could explain this to us?

ETA: maybe no need to move it then....
 
sap5 said:
Not only are the holds very open, they spend a lot of time skating next to each other, not touching at all. I know there were many rule changes made since the last quad to loosen things up, so I wonder if there is anything specifying how much time you need to be in hold now in ice dance? Maybe it's not necessary anymore.
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gk_891 said:
But doesn't that lower the difficulty? Handholds were always so important in ice dance and they should remain so as skating within complex handholds as opposed to side by side or hand to hand is what largely separates pairs from ice dancers.

I'm not well versed on how ice dancing is judged today so maybe there is something in the rules now so that it's not necessary to skate within complex holds these days. If so, that's not a good thing IMO.
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From the ISU Handbook for Referees and Judges, Free Dance:

f) The number of separations to execute transitional footwork or moves is not restricted. The distance between partners should not exceed two arms lengths. The duration of each such separation, outside of Required Elements requiring a separation, must not exceed 5 seconds. Separations at the beginning and/or end of the program may be up to 10 seconds in duration without restrictions on the distance of separation.

g) All changes of hold are permitted. Many and varied holds increase the difficulty of the program and therefore, should be included. Skating face to face is considered to be more difficult than skating side by side, hand in hand, separately or one after the other.

The Handbook:

http://www.isu.org/inside-single-pa...ndbook-for-referees-and-judges-2017-18-1/file

And then under PCS/Transitions - they do look for and are supposed to reward a "variety of holds"

http://www.isu.org/inside-single-pa...ogram-component-chart-sandp-and-id-08-16/file

ETA: Perhaps this should be in the Dance Hall and if so humblest apologies. My post is not about P/C's FD but about the rules :)
 
sap5 said:
Thanks kittyska8ts! So as long as you touch every so often, you can keep skating separately 5 seconds at a time.
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Yup, but it is likely risky to separate too much. But if you have fabulous elements and a record of good GOE, then any points lost for separations may be worth the risk. It's all strategy, as in all the disciplines. Keep in mind this is just the FD. Obviously the SD is much different.
 
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