Savchenko/Massot Fan Thread

[kittysk8ts]

What I was trying to get across is that no matter how fantastic the preceding transition was into the Tw, if she spends a tiny little bit too much time in the lutz/flip take-off position before actually taking off, the callers can interpret that as not fulfilling the requirements for immediate steps before the element.

Yup, gotcha

 

[Quadjump]

I also need to rewatch but...

I think their twist yesterday was "only" level 3 because in pairs, the callers seem to be much, much stricter about footwork immediately preceding the twist compared to e.g. what happens the singles with the footwork heading straight into jump thing in SP (where esp. top skaters might get away with a simple step/turn or two and then a looong pause before the take-off). There only needs to be a relatively short pause between the steps (and/or small lift) and the launching into air and POOF! there wen.t one of the Tw levels. I also think this was what happened to Aljona & Bruno several times during last season.

So, I think they might've gotten credit for 1) her split 2) his hands down 3) clean catch but not for 4) preceding steps.

I thought the same about the steps before the twist. I talked with Alexander König last year. He mentioned that Bruno is tall and needs much time to prepare for the twist. This makes a quick entry quite difficult compared to the Chinese. They only got level 4 at world´s SP.

Maybe they should adjust their twist by trying a tano. This is the 5th feature for a level.

 

[antmanb]

OK so it took about half an hour to find the scale of values on the ISU website and you're right if any part of the lady touches the man then you wouldn't get the bullet for a level.

To get a level four the pair must get four of the five bullets which are:

1) Lady's split position (each leg at least 45 degrees from the body axis and lady's legs are straight or nearly straight);
2) Catching the lady at the side of the waist without her hand(s)/Arm(s)/any part of the upper body touching the man;
3) Lady's air position with arm(s) above head (minimum one full rev);
4) Difficult take off;
5) Man's arms sideways, being straight or almost straight, reaching at least shoulder level after release of lady.

Since they don't attempt tano on the twist they have to get the other four to get level four. The movments into the twist are definitely always getting number 4, and Bruno always gets his arms down for number 5.

I think the catch is always clean - unless they are quibbling the "side of the waist" because Bruno tends to catch her at the front of the waist rather than by the side? I can't see them being so picky.

The questionable bullet is number 1 - I don't think Aljiona's back leg splits as far back as the front - I don't think it hits the 45 degree rule so I think that has to be it. Everything else is so consistent that I can only think it is that.

 

[nimi]

I talked with Alexander König last year. He mentioned that Bruno is tall and needs much time to prepare for the twist. This makes a quick entry quite difficult compared to the Chinese. They only got level 4 at world´s SP.

Yeah I wish the callers gave a little bit more leeway... *sigh*

 

[angi]

Brilliant FP as far as I'm concerned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMYPBCDhCrU

I'm almost worried they are packing too much content into their programs but they sure know how to make them breathtaking. I hope that like last season they will grow and get stronger as the season progress (without injuries of course) and perform this programs to their full potential.

 

[rfisher]

I know they say they have a 90% success rate in practice for the Th3A. They have a 0% success rate in competition this season. STOP the MADNESS

 

[antmanb]

God I love this LP too! Bruno looks less comfortable with the LP at the minute - his posture problems cropped up a few times and he went a bit hunch-backed. The lifts are stunning, the SBS spins are I loved the exit transition from the Pairs spin, there a beautiful choreographic touches throughout the programme - like the twizzles that matched the music and they were perfectly in synch! And there are so many transitions in this programme.

I agree though - it's time to ditch the triple axel - they need two clean throws to seal the deal and they're struggling with the easier throw triples so the triple axel just doesn't make sense...also - why add a difficult transition into the triple axel like that carry...unless the idea is to tire Bruno's amrs just before so he doesn't throw her as far?

ETA: and the kiss my butt ending has to go!

 

[chapis]

I love the LP

 

[VarBar]

Lovely long program for Aliona and Bruno, with some obvious Chris Dean touches. Really enjoyable to watch in spite of the mistakes.

 

[arakwafan2006]

While I totally understand attempting the Axel and wanting to do it, the jump doesn’t even look close this year and it looks like they’ve changed the technique big time. She must be landing it or they wouldn’t try it but if that’s so these attempts were not good.

I’m also convinced that Aliona cannot land her throws on one foot. Either way, Christopher did great work on the free. It just rolls and rolls along and isn’t crazy busy with choreography but skillfully difficult and beautiful to watch. I can see that talking months to perfect.

Bruno has good skating skills man! His posture...Lloyd Eisler-ish. Overall though he’s not bad. Surprised he missed his jump. He was probably shocked she didn’t lol.

They’ve got work to do to compete against the Chinese and Canadians. I’d hate for them to lose because everyone else was safe and they risked too much. If that damn Axel isn’t perfect by the Grand Prix Final, forget it!!!!!

 

[chapis]

While I totally understand attempting the Axel and wanting to do it, the jump doesn’t even look close this year and it looks like they’ve changed the technique big time. She must be landing it or they wouldn’t try it but if that’s so these attempts were not good.

They’ve got work to do to compete against the Chinese and Canadians. I’d hate for them to lose because everyone else was safe and they risked too much. If that damn Axel isn’t perfect by the Grand Prix Final, forget it!!!!!

maybe, but definitely Nebelhorn was the perfect competition for try it.

 

[VGThuy]

I’m also convinced that Aliona cannot land her throws on one foot.

I feel like every time I've watched them compete, she's always double-footing at least one throw jump.

 

[chapis]

By the way, where is Karpenko?, Is he ok? I thought that he would be raving about Aliona right now.

 

[cocotaffy]

That last pose made him look like the greek mythological titan Atlas bearing the sky, they need something less awkward indeed. I loved that rotating move above his head . There was some obvious Dean moves like this one . They need to get comfortable with it especially Bruno who looked uncharastically flushed and winded today. It still looks more ready than Han/Sui LP for the moment.

 

[Quadjump]

I know they say they have a 90% success rate in practice for the Th3A. They have a 0% success rate in competition this season. STOP the MADNESS

When did they say this?

90% maybe too-footed. But the throws looked really bad this week. Cannot even imagine how she wants to manage the 3ATh. Just remember that the want to include the 4Tw and 4STh.

The program is more than special. I am not totally convinced. It is the same with the SP. But their choreography is definitly the best in the world. No doubt.

Aljona's costume is not the best imo.

 

[chapis]

The program is more than special. I am not totally convinced. It is the same with the SP. But their choreography is definitly the best in the world. No doubt.

Aljona's costume is not the best imo.

she looks great always, but yes, I think she should get a better costume.

 

[marbri]

They do typically have the most interesting choreography but it's going to take another full season to get over the difference in their sizing and carriage. And because of those differences they really need to rethink that ending as it just accentuates this problem.

And ditch the US ladies 1980's ensemble.

 

[rfisher]

When did they say this?

90% maybe too-footed. But the throws looked really bad this week. Cannot even imagine how she wants to manage the 3ATh. Just remember that the want to include the 4Tw and 4STh.

The program is more than special. I am not totally convinced. It is the same with the SP. But their choreography is definitly the best in the world. No doubt.

Aljona's costume is not the best imo.

Coach said so in press conference. Although he also didn't sound like he thinks that's good enough, but Aliona runs that show as we all know. She is one stubborn woman. Unlike the Russians who do have internal test skates, they have to put the programs out in front of a judging panel. Hopefully, they'll get the feedback they need.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe my expectations were kind of high after reading the PBP, but I wasn't that impressed with the LP. It seemed a bit generic to me. I mean generic is actually a high standard these days, but still.

 

[Cherub721]

I didn't like the music at all, but I think I'm impressed that they made a good program even with bland music. I can't help but think how much better it would be with some classical standard, but there are lots of gorgeous bits in the choreography that they can play with. I'm not liking it as much as Lighthouse, though, because it had more variety in the music and was just a seamless whole choreographically... but I think this LP can get there or close. It certainly is by far the best this season with just Stolbova to go.

 

[kittysk8ts]

These 2 programs just may be, choreographically, the best I have ever seen. And of course the elements as well, but they just were not all there this time. Aliona really can do anything (lol, except the Thr3A as discussed above). And I adore how emotional Bruno can be. And I am going to be very dramatic now and say that if he does not get citizenship it will be the crime of the quadrennium given their total dedication. I just love them

 

[lmarie086]

I love their programs this season; both are excellent and I have a feeling they will be my favorites of the season. Not their cleanest skates at Nebelhorn, but it's very early yet. If they are going to stick with the throw 3A, I really hope they start landing it cleanly.

Really, really hoping Bruno gets citizenship, because they need to be at the Olympics. I'll be rooting for them to win!

 

[Meoima]

They should be at the Olympics!!!!!!

 

[loulou]

I know they say they have a 90% success rate in practice for the Th3A.

Really? I'd much rather like to watch the practice tapes then. And I hope to lord that's true.

They have a 0% success rate in competition this season. STOP the MADNESS

And do what?

I’m also convinced that Aliona cannot land her throws on one foot.

I feel like every time I've watched them compete, she's always double-footing at least one throw jump.

That's the real issue.
How many triple thrown jumps have they cleanly landed since competing together?
I remember the first one, the flip/lutz during the SP at Europeans, their fisrt season.
After that maybe a salchow somewhere?

But most of the times she two foots, or worse.

Now, who's to blame?
We know she did land those jumps before.

The triple axel has improved loads since last year.
I think he can only have proper technique if he's allowed to use his power; as long as he holds back he won't throw well, and even if speed and height are smaller, it'll be more difficult for Aliona to land. Because proper technique always acts as a facilitator.

Maybe my expectations were kind of high after reading the PBP, but I wasn't that impressed with the LP. It seemed a bit generic to me. I mean generic is actually a high standard these days, but still.

I wasn't either.
I liked last year FS better, and the one from the preceding season even more. But that program I believe had some Steuer in it.

The current SP isn't bad, but sadly the tango crops her beautiful extentions.


-- As for the twist, I think Aliona isn't hitting the split, it's never obvious. There must be something in their dynamics preventing her.

-- As for the 3ThA, I'm under the impression he throws her too much into the circle, screwing her trajectory.

 

[loulou]

Really, really hoping Bruno gets citizenship, because they need to be at the Olympics. I'll be rooting for them to win!

I didn't know he hadn't.
All those cars and no passport for the Olympics?

He'll get it.
Stefano Caruso got it, I don't see Bruno Massot not doing the same.

And if there was anything to worry about, I bet we could read that on Aliona.
You know: tiny but fierce.

 

[Quadjump]

That's the real issue.
How many triple thrown jumps have they cleanly landed since competing together?
I remember the first one, the flip/lutz during the SP at Europeans, their fisrt season.
After that maybe a salchow somewhere?

3FTh German nationals SP 16
3FTh Euros SP 16
3STh Worlds FP 16

3STh Euros FP 16

The 2ATh has been clean. They performed it twice at Euros 17.

If you observe the warming up or old practice videos the 2ATh and 3STh is often sure, clean and huge... But the 3STh it is a real issue in competition. I do not want to talk about the 3ATh!

 

[loulou]

3FTh German nationals SP 16
3FTh Euros SP 16
3STh Worlds FP 16

3STh Euros FP 16

The 2ATh has been clean. They performed it twice at Euros 17.

Forgive me, I never watched Nationals, so those I didn't know about.
Other than Nationals, seems I missed one 3STh, which is like saying they hardly landed cleanly triple thrown jumps in their career.

The 2A I remembered (Aliona was injured), which is why I specifically mentioned triple trown jumps.

If you observe the warming up or old practice videos the 2ATh and 3STh is often sure, clean and huge... But the 3STh it is a real issue in competition. I do not want to talk about the 3ATh!

Thanks for the information.
Keep us posted, I wish to see them make the splash of the era.

 

[topaz]

Great programs for these two this season. Goodness me the choreography in FS is just beyond gorgeous, innovative and cleaver. Who are the choreographers?

 

[arakwafan2006]

It’s a shame that something as hideous as what Tarasova/Morozov skated to won over this art.

Bruno needs to double his cardio efforts. Lol

 

[kittysk8ts]

Great programs for these two this season. Goodness me the choreography in FS is just beyond gorgeous, innovative and cleaver. Who are the choreographers?

Christopher Dean helped with the choreo for the FS. John Kerr and Sylvia Fonatana are their choreographers as well. Fantastic work by all