Julia Lipnitskaya announces retirement

[oleada]

Please read my previous post. Pre-puberty girls should not be competing in Senior ladies category.

I guess my point is that I don't know why you selected those two skaters. For one thing, they're hardly the stereotype of a tiny junior winning because of tiny jumps they'll lose as they grow. Second, they're not the only skaters that have debuted recently in seniors at their age. Off the top of my head in the last season or two, I can think of Wakaba Higuchi, Marin Honda, Yuna Shiraiwa, Elizabeth Tursynbaeva. Then you look back further and you have Mao, Yuna, Julia herself, Tuktamysheva, Caroline Zhang, Mirai Nagasu, Tara Lipinski and even Michelle Kwan. If anything, the age was raised so now skaters cannot debut as seniors internationally until they are 15. If you raise it too much, then you end up with skaters who are truly excellent and cannot compete.

I am not sure what the answer is, to be honest. I'm also not saying that something shouldn't be done about eating disorders in the sport, which is hardly limited to just one skater or one coaching team. But I don't get singling out those two particular skaters. It is a much larger issue than that.

 

[coppertop1]

The issue isn't physical. It isn't going to be solved by age limits. There needs to be a healthier approach to girls hitting puberty. Coaches may benefit from being taught about the dangers of eating disorders so they're more aware. Plus, people need to stop making comments and saying skaters need to lose weight.

All the best to Julia. I feel the expectations on her were too much and she never knew how to handle it. I hope she finds happiness.

 

[kwanfan1818]

They have age cut offs for reasons. What the reason is for any time differs. I suspect the reason they made both GP and championships the same was to keep people from being outraged that the GPF champion wasn't age-eligible for the Olympics, so now 14-year-olds can do neither.

Juniors are prohibited from some elements, allegedly because they could be damaging to growing bodies, but that is so inconsistently applied to physical development.

If the issue is that by allowing pre-pubescent girls and barely pubescent girls to be eligible for the biggest prizes, then the incentive is to keep that body, regardless of the cost. If they raised the age to 17 or 18, and kept them on the back burner, the way figures judging did (however corrupt), most would be forced to adjust, or they'd drop out. It's one argument. Of course there would be eighteen Russian girls in Juniors for five years...

 

[misskarne]

Plus, people need to stop making comments and saying skaters need to lose weight.

THIS! Just look at some of the posts "fans" have made about Liza Tuktamysheva, or about Gracie, or about Rachel Flatt, or even about Julia earlier this year. "Fans" making scornful remarks about these beautiful, healthy young women as if they're morbidly obese. Until that changes, nothing else will.

 

[falling_dance]

Apologies for the placement of this post. Starting a new thread for it didn't seem worthwhile.

I'd be curious to see if the average age of world medalists is trending up, down, or if there is no trend at all. Could be an interesting project (but not for me!)

1989: 19, 23, 20
1990: 21, 20, 19
1991: 19, 20, 21
1992: 20, 22, 15
1993: 15, 19, 16
1994: 21, 20, 16
1995: 18, 21, 17
1996: 15, 19, 17
1997: 14, 16, 18
1998: 17, 19, 25
1999: 26, 18, 17
2000: 19, 21, 27
2001: 20, 22, 15
2002: 23, 21, 21
2003: 22, 23, 22
2004: 22, 19, 23
2005: 26, 20, 18
2006: 16, 25, 21
2007: 19, 16, 16
2008: 17, 21, 17
2009: 18, 23, 21
2010: 19, 19, 21
2011: 23, 20, 24
2012: 25, 21, 27
2013: 22, 26, 22
2014: 23, 15, 27
2015: 18, 17, 16
2016: 16, 24, 17
2017: 17, 21, 19

I started with 1989 because, from that point on, the World champion had at least a triple flip in her free skate (and, of course, Ito had the 3A). Breaking it down by Olympic cycle seemed like the best bet...

Average age, 1989-2017: 19. 95
Average, 1989-1992 (Albertville): 19.92 (Without Chen Lu’s 1992 World bronze: 20.36)
1993-1994 (Lillehammer): 17.83
1995-1998 (Nagano): 18 (Without Maria Butyrskaya’s 1998 World bronze: 17.36; without Tara Lipinski’s 1997 World gold: 18.36)
1999-2002 (Salt Lake City): 20.83 (Without Sarah Hughes’ 2001 World bronze: 21.36)
2003-2006 (Turin): 21.42 (Without Kimmie Meissner’s 2006 World gold: 21.9)
2007-2010 (Vancouver): 18.92
2011-2014 (Sochi): 22.92 (Without Julia Lipnitskaia’s* 2014 World silver: 23.64)
2015-present (PyeongChang): 18.33 (Without Ashley Wagner’s 2016 World silver: 17.63)

*

 

[coppertop1]

THIS! Just look at some of the posts "fans" have made about Liza Tuktamysheva, or about Gracie, or about Rachel Flatt, or even about Julia earlier this year. "Fans" making scornful remarks about these beautiful, healthy young women as if they're morbidly obese. Until that changes, nothing else will.

I've also seen comments about Rika Hongo, Kaetlyn, and Emily Hughes. If these girls are obese, I must be an elephant! It's ignorant and hypocritical. Skaters are athletes so they have muscle.

 

[TheGirlCanSkate]

I hope she has lots of love, help, and health. Wishing all the best for Julia.

 

[Firedancer]

Wishing Julia health and happiness!

 

[znhurston]

There are a couple of very sad paragraphs in here.

More than a couple, if you ask me.

 

[Marco]

All the best to Julia. Is she retiring from competitive skating, or skating altogether? I think she would make a good pro since she is already famous worldwide, has catchy tricks and there is less demands on jumps in show programs.

 

[SmallFairy]

Again, all the best the Julia, I was to the bitter end hoping for her kick-ass comeback!

Of course I have to post a favorite horse photo:
https://www.instagram.com/p/7YVsm7OvCM/?taken-by=yulia_lipnitskaya_fan

 

[chapis]

What I do not understand is why they allow them to compete like this ?, the case of Yulia seems to have already been known by the skating community in Russia. In suspect cases, a medical and psychiatric note should be requested where physicians assert that athletes are healthy and it is not harmful for them to continue training and competing. One thing is that by carelessness you have not noticed it, but to me it seems that there are some doctors, parents and coaches who turn a blind eye.

 

[lala]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYXYhAEFZAI/ - The youngest Olympic athlete in the history of women's singles! At the age of 15 she, together with our team, won gold for Russia and brought our team 20 points out of 20 possible! The great sportswoman, who did not leave after the 2014 Olympics, but continued her sports career, speaking On official starts, struggled, overcoming traumas and psychological barriers! Yulechka, life goes on, you are a good girl, hard worker. You are a little legend that brought female Russian figure skating to the highest level after a long time Foot stagnation! I'm proud of you and always close! - Evgeni Plushenko

 

[Willin]

You can't tell if someone has reached puberty or not by looking at their birth dates. Kids go through puberty anywhere from 9 years old up to 16 or sometimes even 17.

What proof of puberty would have to be shown? Not all girls are physically affected by puberty in the same way.

This is always the debate--where exactly the age limit should be. I think you set it at a point where most girls will have passed through puberty. There's always going to be outliers like Tursynbaeva, so you aim for most, not all. It is admittedly a tricky issue, though.

Looking at the literature, it appears that short of a hormonal test, there's no good marker. Instead, I think the best way would be to put the age limit at when most females (95%) have completed the last changes puberty (Age 17) or adjust that up to 18 for it to be a round even number and catch more outliers.

Interestingly enough, some of the recent literature I saw suggests that eating disorders - particularly anorexia - are the reason female athletes may go through puberty later, not due to the training regimen. The eating disorders also can lead to increased incidence of osteoporosis and earlier onset in these athletes and can cause them to be more prone to injuries. So perhaps we should be giving better dietary education to skaters of all ages and doing anorexia screenings and training for coaches. (Because if a coach isn't already worried about their skaters getting anorexic, hopefully telling them the skater will be at a higher injury risk will affect their ability to care about anorexia)

But at what cost? What happens when you have a bunch of 18 to 20 year olds competing for Olympic gold, but there are half a dozen 15 and 16 year olds who are clearly better but can't even compete in seniors for 2 more seasons? It's Asada in 2006 all over again, to an even greater degree.

TBH, while there are greats that are exceptions and should have been competing with seniors, like Asada was, I don't think that's anywhere near the rule. Many of the Juniors lose jumps, lose speed, need technique changes, etc. very quickly when they hit puberty because when they had that pre-puberty body they could pull off jumps and go fast with bad technique. Sure, they can pull off fancier or harder jumps, but for the most part I don't really count it as being a good skater until after they're full grown - because it's a heck of a lot harder for a grown woman to try a quad/3A/3-3(-3) combo than it is for a girl to do it, so you need to be at least good if not great to do that as an adult.

 

[MsZem]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYXYhAEFZAI/ - The youngest Olympic athlete in the history of women's singles!

Lipinski was younger (even if not by much). Janet Lynn and Linda Fratianne were younger at their first Olympics. So was Cecilia Colledge, and of course Sonja Henie, and probably some other old timers as well.

Lipnitskaya's team event performances were impressive, regardless of her age.

 

[Edgecase]

Lipinski was younger (even if not by much). Janet Lynn and Linda Fratianne were younger at their first Olympics. So was Cecilia Colledge, and of course Sonja Henie, and probably some other old timers as well.

Actually, if the post had read "...youngest Olympic Champion in ladies' figure skating history", it would have been accurate, since although Julia's birthday is June 5 and Tara's is June 10, Julia's age on the actual day she won (which was in the team event which occurred at the beginning of February) is just a few days younger than Tara's was on the actual day Tara won, which was during the ladies' FS, which occurs much later in the Olympic event schedule.

 

[MsZem]

Actually, if the post had read "...youngest Olympic Champion in ladies' figure skating history", it would have been accurate, since although Julia's birthday is June 5 and Tara's is June 10, Julia's age on the actual day she won (which was in the team event which occurred at the beginning of February) is just a few days younger than Tara's was on the actual day Tara won, which was during the ladies' FS, which occurs much later in the Olympic event schedule.

Maybe, but that's not what was written, and she didn't win an OGM in ladies' singles. Anyway, "youngest champion ever" seems a pretty meaningless accomplishment to me. Does it really matter how old someone was when they won? Is, say, Shizuka Arakawa's OGM any less meaningful because she was older than Lipinski?

BTW, it's not all that common, but some men's skaters also made their senior debuts at a fairly young age; Plushenko, Fernandez, and Denis Ten all come to mind.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Those 13 year old skaters skate in juniors. You surely are not suggesting to raise even juniors age?
I don't think limiting the number of triples in competition will improve the health of those juniors, because they will still be pushing the jumps at the practices because they know they would need them in seniors.

No age change. But scoring should be changed to emphasize developmental skills - edgework, centering, extension, some jumping. These activities seem appropriate to developing bodies. Of course kids will go out and smoke behind the building. But the system shouldn't promote it.

 

[nimi]

from Plushy

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYXYhAEFZAI/?taken-by=plushenkoofficial

 

[lala]

Lipinski was younger (even if not by much). Janet Lynn and Linda Fratianne were younger at their first Olympics. So was Cecilia Colledge, and of course Sonja Henie, and probably some other old timers as well.

Lipnitskaya's team event performances were impressive, regardless of her age.

Probably he repeated what read in the Russian media in 2014.I don't think he did a research in this matter

 

[nimi]

^^ I didn't mean to take part in the "who was the youngest" debate (not interested in that), just thought that was a pretty heartwarming post from Plushy and somehow missed it was already posted. Duh

 

[Coco]

LOL, I had to look twice, I thought she was flipping the bird.

 

[kwanfan1818]

"Fans" making scornful remarks about these beautiful, healthy young women as if they're morbidly obese. Until that changes, nothing else will.

And young adult Elene Gedevanishvilli wasn't fat, either, but on the other side of puberty, her body had changed enough so that her jumps were unreliable.

There's a point where physics takes over the equation, and performances and results show it.

 

[Vagabond]

Entire post

Don't believe everything you read on Twitter.

 

[lala]

Don't believe everything you read on Twitter.

I don't understand what you want to suggest. But this is not that place where we can argue about Plushenko.

http://sport.rbc.ru/news/59a562339a7947cb505fff26

Plushenko invited Lipnitskaya to his team
Olympic champion Evgeni Plushenko would like to see Julia Lipnitskaya among the participants of her show. The skater is going to give her the opportunity to skate in her team.
Plushenko told the R-Sport agency that he was ready to give Lipnitskaya a job after she announced her retirement. "I called Yulia, but her phone is turned off. One of these days I will contact her and talk to her agent. I want to invite her to my show and I want her to ride in my team. As part of the show - "The Snow King" and "The Nutcracker", I wanted to invite her to my anniversary (to me this year, 35 years). The life after the termination of career does not come to an end, it is necessary to train further, to go for a drive ", - has told Плющенко.

 

[vexlak]

Interestingly enough, some of the recent literature I saw suggests that eating disorders - particularly anorexia - are the reason female athletes may go through puberty later, not due to the training regimen. The eating disorders also can lead to increased incidence of osteoporosis and earlier onset in these athletes and can cause them to be more prone to injuries. So perhaps we should be giving better dietary education to skaters of all ages and doing anorexia screenings and training for coaches. (Because if a coach isn't already worried about their skaters getting anorexic, hopefully telling them the skater will be at a higher injury risk will affect their ability to care about anorexia)

The problem with this is the hunt for the trophies. Just as much as athletes dope illegal substances, girls have their own issues. Malnourished, fragile bodies can take only so much. We only see those succeeding, but not seeing those with stress fractures and other injuries. Just look at the female skaters Instagram accounts and the food pictures they posts. That should be tell tell sign it self.
You can create counseling, education and whatever else, but nothing will help as long as one have the opportunity to take the top spot. This is made worse by the fact that the athletes are pushed by the coaches, coaches are pushed by their federations, federations by the governments to earn funding. Unless ISU sets age parameters this will continue...
I saw many times coaches walking to the practice with the scale and weigh students before the practice. This is worldwide practice not limited to Russia. This alone is a physiological terror on girls and young women already facing pressures to look appealing. No one cares if a girl looks unhealthy on the ice as long as she lands the jumps. We know which ones look unhealthy when it happens. And sadly we continue applaud their preparation and training no matter what it is and reward them with medals. Hence becoming role models for other

Although I am sad for Julia's condition (and I am hoping for her full recovery), she could be a perfect person to talk about the problems she got through and set the ISU to do something about the girls abuse in skating (also pairs). Unfortunately this would mean going against the coaches, federations, ISU and governments and therefore it is very unlikely to happen.

I wish the fans will focus more or women's beauty (and yes I mean sex appeal) instead of dreidel jumps of little children.

But until ISU realize that the sport should be for worldwide audience and not for insiders, this sport will continue to loose its fan base. But that is a another topic.

 

[Bellanca]

I'll admit that I’ve been expecting this retirement announcement for some time now. I was holding out hope that Yulia would enjoy more longevity with her competitive skating career, but there are more important issues to address ... like being happy which she deserves!! And while some athletes only get a handful of years, others enjoy many. I'll miss her. Here's wishing Yulia a great life!

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Apologies for the placement of this post. Starting a new thread for it didn't seem worthwhile.

I started with 1989 because, from that point on, the World champion had at least a triple flip in her free skate (and, of course, Ito had the 3A). Breaking it down by Olympic cycle seemed like the best bet...

Average age, 1989-2017: 19. 95
Average, 1989-1992 (Albertville): 19.92 (Without Chen Lu’s 1992 World bronze: 20.36)
1993-1994 (Lillehammer): 17.83
1995-1998 (Nagano): 18 (Without Maria Butyrskaya’s 1998 World bronze: 17.36; without Tara Lipinski’s 1997 World gold: 18.36)
1999-2002 (Salt Lake City): 20.83 (Without Sarah Hughes’ 2001 World bronze: 21.36)
2003-2006 (Turin): 21.42 (Without Kimmie Meissner’s 2006 World gold: 21.9)
2007-2010 (Vancouver): 18.92
2011-2014 (Sochi): 22.92 (Without Julia Lipnitskaia’s* 2014 World silver: 23.64)
2015-present (PyeongChang): 18.33 (Without Ashley Wagner’s 2016 World silver: 17.63)

*

Thanks for the work. Can't see any trends. Winners between 17 and 22, generally. One point though is that being in the sport young is more dangerous than in the '80s. The conditioning is more demanding, the jumping is more demanding. I don't know know about the pressure; maybe the same. To protect these youngsters they could consider 1)raising the senior age level (I know, doesn't solve it 100%, but makes it better). Make junior skating more about fundamental skills, some jumping and how to compete. Not, a rehearsal for seniors. It will never happen - the federations who are winning now will never allow it. And, the public likes seeing these teeny wonders doing extraordinary things.

 

[overedge]

@Willin sadly there are coaches out there who don't care if their athletes are anorexic or not, as long as the athletes are producing results.

 

[Maofan7]

Tatiana Navka on Yulia's retirement

"Surprise in this case is probably not the right word. Each person has their own destiny. It is difficult to judge Lipnitskaya. Probably, she had good reason to make such a decision. Apparently, she no longer feels able to continue fighting. And then, figure skating has now become a very young sport. 16-year-old girls are already so good."

Article entitled: "The real Julia Lipnitskaya no one saw. And this is the saddest thing." The google translate reads:-

The fact that the "girl in red" Julia Lipnitskaya will not go on the ice not only in the upcoming season, but in general, it was clear long ago. The Federation knew about this in April, but still pretends that this is a surprise and sensation. The skater herself and her trainer Alexei Urmanov remain silent.

Let's do without unnecessary emotions. She went to her goal with the help of her mother, stepping on her throat all the desires and laws of physiology. She was fed with protein powder, so that Julia did not gain weight and could jump. She was persuaded, forced, asked, tried for her - a common thing in the life of any teenager. At the insistence of her mother, Yulia even left school for home schooling.

She won the Olympics in Sochi, demonstrating an excellent rental of two programs, one of which has sunk into the soul of the whole world. Thanks to the red coat and "Schindler's List" on February 10, 2014, Lipnitskaya woke up to one of the most popular girls in the world. You can say that this is "just" a victory in the team tournament, but in fact it was Lipnitskaya who brought our team the maximum number of points, and to roll out at the same emotional level their programs again in a couple of days is extremely difficult.

No one was particularly interested in what she did on the ice in technical terms, what were her previous programs. Everyone was waiting for her to continue the miracles and the same emotions. After Sochi, Yulya Lipnitskaya was hit by a heavy burden of glory and big money. In 15 years it is difficult to resist temptations and force myself to work on.

Yulia Lipnitskaya was never the most skilled figure skater of her generation. One of - yes. But she was convinced that she was not and would not be equal. We convinced all of us in a burst of that euphoria and universal adoration in which we were after the Sochi hire. Perhaps the only person who realized that these were advances, and not reality, was Eteri Tutberidze, who was trying to get the ward to forget about everything and work further.

But Julia left her coach. Next to her were people who just then took a fateful decision for the athlete. Ambitions overpowered common sense, and Lipnitskaya became a victim of these same ambitions, which also succumbed. Season-2013/14 became for her the brightest in her career - the gold of the Olympics and the European Championship, the silver of the World Cup.

More such success in the career of Lipnitskaya was not, and all attempts to return to the top were unsuccessful. And even tragic, if we talk about the Grand Prix of Russia in November last year. An arbitrary program to the music from the movie "Kill Bill" eventually "killed" the skater herself.

The saddest thing is that no one saw Yulia Lipnitskaya's skating. In Sochi, her skating, even if inspired and touching everyone who saw him, was childishly angular - it's impossible to escape from it when there's a girl on the ice, not a girl. And when the process of growing up was over, the body began to malfunction.

Leaving Lipnitskaya was just a technical moment. The intrigue was only in who is the first to speak about it openly.

Said her mother, not missing the opportunity to complain that the girl lives only for a lifetime presidential scholarship, put to the Olympic champions. That is, in the very fact of the completion of a career there is nothing unusual - this all went on. But the information space exploded.

Everything returned three and a half years ago, into that very atmosphere of euphoria and universal adoration. And in this atmosphere some absolutely ridiculous statements sounded. It turned out even that it was she who alone led women's skiing in Russia to the highest level. And in the Ministry of Sport they are waiting for her as an official (a 19-year-old girl without education), and put on deputies to the State Duma. Maybe that's enough for all this? All of us ourselves in February 2014 turned Lipnitskaya into a deity, and then disillusioned.

Enough already tease her with gold candlesticks and expectations. Her performance in Sochi will remain in your memory forever, and now let it calmly start an adult life. Without crowds of fans and cameras at every turn.