Two year old snatched by alligator at Disney World (FL) resort

This thread is idiotic. The fact that people think that everyone understands about alligators is irrelevant! Many of us had no idea. Disney is on my list of places I have no desire to visit, and if you'd asked me if there were alligators lurking in the water there I would have said no. It never crossed my mind.

Also, as evidenced by the many anecdotes in here, people can be idiotic in ignoring danger. Peggy's Cove in Nova Scotia has huge signage stating "Do not go on the black rocks or you might be killed", with the number of people killed on the signs. Yet almost every year someone is swept off into the Atlantic, and every time I've been there, people are laughing and climbing on the black rocks, sometimes with their children.
 
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twinsissv said:
Oh my gosh...I forgot all about the four year old sister. She's going to be so lonely and possibly terrified of water. She was a big sister and now...no more baby brother. I wonder if children this young can respond to counseling? :(
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Children can and do cope with the loss of a sibling or other close family member. The thing is, we can't change the event..so the "*how can the child or family cope?" question is an irrelevant one. You cope because you have 2 choices cope or die. Ask anyone who has lost a child or family member, you have no choice you do.

Grief therapy for kids includes telling families that every stage of development will bring another wave of intense grief as the child assimilates what it means at this stage.

From the reports on the Omaha TV stations (the family lives in a suburb of Omaha), they have a strong support system within a family circle, a church circle and a work employer circle.

What is not helpful? People armchair quarterbacking of the parents parenting choices. They did what millions of other people have done..gone on vacation, played on a beach, wadinh water. They are victims of a bizzare and freak accident.
 
once_upon said:
You cope because you have 2 choices cope or die. Ask anyone who has lost a child or family member, you have no choice you do.
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I think trauma research would say that there is a lot of room between the "cope" or "die" and it is not binary.
There are lots of trauma victims who find it difficult to be members of society any longer; I guess if you consider being alive still to be coping, then yes, everyone does- but since the dictionary says "deal effectively with something" than people who become withdrawn, violent, numb, inconsolable, those people are not coping IMO.

This family has a very long road ahead of them. How the parents act with the 4-year old will make a very big difference in how the 4-year old does long term. No one in that family is likely to ever be the same. I just cannot imagine the amount of pain they must be in.
 
once_upon said:
Children can and do cope with the loss of a sibling or other close family member. The thing is, we can't change the event..so the "*how can the child or family cope?" question is an irrelevant one. You cope because you have 2 choices cope or die. Ask anyone who has lost a child or family member, you have no choice you do.

Grief therapy for kids includes telling families that every stage of development will bring another wave of intense grief as the child assimilates what it means at this stage.

From the reports on the Omaha TV stations (the family lives in a suburb of Omaha), they have a strong support system within a family circle, a church circle and a work employer circle.

What is not helpful? People armchair quarterbacking of the parents parenting choices. They did what millions of other people have done..gone on vacation, played on a beach, wadinh water. They are victims of a bizzare and freak accident.
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I think there is a third choice to cope or die . There is living dead. meaning you walk through life but you are not there. You are no longer the loving family that little girl had. The mom blames the dad in the secret places in her soul. the dad blamed himself for not being able to protect his family..or the wife for planning the vacation. they divorce because the pain of seeing each other is too much. the girl wonders why she isn't enough for her parents.

Takes enormous strength to survive this.

Watch THE DEEP END OF THE OCEAN.. the older boy blames himself for his brother's disappearance. he was supposed to be holding his brothers hand in the shoe store.
 
Susan1 said:
Never been to Florida. Never had the urge. Because of the humidity and bugs. Not because alligators are everywhere!
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Guess what. We were in Florida in February a few years ago. No bugs, no humidity, perfect sunny 75F. Gators probably were everywhere but out of site. They prefer not to traffic with us, humans generally.

Summer in Florida is another story.
 
rjblue said:
This thread is idiotic. The fact that people think that everyone understands about alligators is irrelevant! Many of us had no idea. Disney is on my list of places I have no desire to visit, and if you'd asked me if there were alligators lurking in the water there I would have said no. It never crossed my mind.

Also, as evidenced by the many anecdotes in here, people can be idiotic in ignoring danger. Peggy's Cove in Nova Scotia has huge signage stating "Do not go on the black rocks or you might be killed", with the number of people killed on the signs. Yet almost every year someone is swept off into the Atlantic, and every time I've been there, people are laughing and climbing on the black rocks, sometimes with their children.
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Why is the thread idiotic? Are you saying I am an idiot to have started the thread about a big/sad news event?
 
IceAlisa said:
Guess what. We were in Florida in February a few years ago. No bugs, no humidity, perfect sunny 75F. Gators probably were everywhere but out of site. They prefer not to traffic with us, humans generally.

Summer in Florida is another story.
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I visited the Miami area one November many years ago. I had a great time. I spent a lot of time on the beaches (unusual for me) but I don't remember seeing any signs about alligators. As a visitor I never thought of that possibility.

I have been told not to visit Florida in summer because it is hot and humid. We prefer our 'dry heat' in Arizona.

About signs- for some unknown reasons many people just don't read signs that are very visible. Many have been killed here in traffic accidents because some people ignored the 'Do not enter' signs (big and in red) at ramps near highways. Now they have doubled the size of those warning signs. I don't know yet if it has made a difference. I think it must have because in the last one year I have not heard of such accidents here.
 
rjblue said:
This thread is idiotic.
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Vash01 said:
Why is the thread idiotic? Are you saying I am an idiot to have started the thread about a big/sad news event?
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:D Old Russian-Jewish Joke: Uncle Moyshe and Uncle Avrahm meet on the street.

Uncle Moyshe: Dear Avrahm, oy! look! a fly just landed on your forehead.
Uncle Avrahm: Dear Moyshe, are you saying that I am a piece of shit??!!!
Uncle Moyshe: No, i am not saying it........ But! you can not fool a fly....
 
Vash01 said:
Why is the thread idiotic? Are you saying I am an idiot to have started the thread about a big/sad news event
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Sorry, I was too general. I should have said that most of the debate in this thread is whether the parents should have known about the dangers of alligators. That debate is pointless.

Expressions of sympathy are helpful to some people, and is more in line with why you started the thread.

(I pretty much hate all dead baby type discussions anyway, and should have kept out of this one. Way too painful to contemplate)
 
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Vash01 said:
I visited the Miami area one November many years ago. I had a great time. I spent a lot of time on the beaches (unusual for me) but I don't remember seeing any signs about alligators. As a visitor I never thought of that possibility.
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Alligators are unlikely to be found on Miami beaches, as they generally are saltwater beaches.
Alligators are nearly always found in freshwater.
 
rjblue said:
Also, as evidenced by the many anecdotes in here, people can be idiotic in ignoring danger. Peggy's Cove in Nova Scotia has huge signage stating "Do not go on the black rocks or you might be killed", with the number of people killed on the signs. Yet almost every year someone is swept off into the Atlantic, and every time I've been there, people are laughing and climbing on the black rocks, sometimes with their children.
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But this family did not ignore danger. They weren't aware of it. A lot of reasonable people would assume they are safe on Disney grounds, just like you said you wouldn't be.
 
IceAlisa said:
Guess what. We were in Florida in February a few years ago. No bugs, no humidity, perfect sunny 75F. Gators probably were everywhere but out of site. They prefer not to traffic with us, humans generally.

Summer in Florida is another story.
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Yeah, I'm not really a water/beach type person, not being able to swim and burning to a crisp in 15 minutes! I've been to Virginia Beach (because I'd never seen an ocean before). Standing in water up to my calves, got knocked down by a wave, swallowed a gallon of water, that was quite enough. We did walk in the edge of the water at night though. Didn't even get attacked by sharks. :-)
 
rjblue said:
Sorry, I was too general. I should have said that most of the debate in this thread is whether the parents should have known about the dangers of alligators. That debate is pointless.

Expressions of sympathy are helpful to some people, and is more in line with why you started the thread.

(I pretty much hate all dead baby type discussions anyway, and should have kept out of this one. Way too painful to contemplate)
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Yes, it is very painful. Sympathy for the parents/family is my #1 priority. Whose fault was it doesn't matter in a way because the tragedy cannot be reversed. In other ways it does matter because more investigation could lead to avoiding furure tragedies. I was glad to hear that the Disney resort has placed alligator warning signs and even a fence near the lagoon. May be it will save future lives.
 
Kecasyl said:
Well, as I said above there is now proof that Disney is installing ropes to block off the water and signs warning of alligator and other wildlife presence.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/17/us/florida-alligator-attack-disney-signs/index.html

http://fox8.com/2016/06/17/disney-installing-fence-on-beach-where-alligator-attacked-boy/
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Good. I figured the response would be pretty swift.

Disney is known as a design-focused company (their work with the MagicBand was touted among my user experience design circles), but you can only be design-focused for the things you are aware about. There are still a lot of silos, because it's a large company with a lot of moving parts, and it just doesn't occur to people to mention certain things to higher-ups. As a designer, I often have to remind coworkers to tell me about any issues customers face, because there's often a design solution for it, even if it doesn't occur to them that there might be a way to design around it.

It apparently wasn't that long ago where the Disney reservation website didn't make it clear enough which resort you were getting tickets for. Apparently hotels at the CA and FL parks would save blocks of rooms for tourists who arrived at the wrong park. :shuffle: I mean sure, people should read, but if it's happening often enough that it becomes hotel policy, the design could definitely be better...
 
Goodbye to you, little Lane. The story of your short life has broken our hearts.
Today we must all bid you a sad and final farewell.
Peace and comfort to your grieving family.
 
Xela M said:
This "beach" looks so disgusting I can't believe anyone would let a baby splash around in that!
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It's technically not a beach per se. And it's basically swamp water and has been known for brain amoebas so, not something I would let anyone in.
 
My family used to go to Disney World every summer starting in 1974 until 1991, and then sporadically since then, and i was on those boats at least every other day. Never saw an alligator. Or fell off.

I know, anecdotal. ;)
 
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