Bobrova and Soloviev out of Worlds

[VGThuy]

Well, then USA should not fear anything. Their pharmaceutical production is quite advanced!

This quote is quite illustrative.

 

[BlueRidge]

While far from dispositive, Wikipedia is your friend.

+3 GOE for use of big word!

 

[Vagabond]

I like to diss while staying positive.

 

[BlueRidge]

I like to diss while staying positive.

You are an excellent role model.

 

[MacMadame]

It depends on what you are classing as supplements and vitamin injections.
I know first hand, that at least two Russian elite athletes don't take vitamin injections or any other 'supplements', unless you count Calcium & Vitamin D3 tablets needed due to lactose intolerance!!

By definition those are vitamins and supplements. (Though technically Vitamin D is a hormone. )

 

[j-daria15]

I have read here that some naive people believe not every sportsman takes something to help his body with training? That is funny. Do you believe that human's body can handle such a physical exercise by itself? Try it on your body. They all take something, it is obvious and I heard it from the mouth of former sportsman. The only difference is some get catched while the others don't.

 

[PRlady]

I know three elite athletes who don't take anything stronger than a multivitamin and NSAID painkillers when needed. Two different sports, and they all say they are not going to take a chance with the side effects of even legal PEDs. I believe them.

But it's the all-purpose excuse for everything: "everybody does it."

 

[Jun Y]

Must admit I am pretty sad I won't see Bobrova and Soloviev in Boston. I was really looking forward to their Anna Karenina free dance. Why can't this happen to skaters I care less about???? <sob> (Not that I would wish it on anyone.)

 

[sam-skwantch]

Well, then USA should not fear anything. Their pharmaceutical production is quite advanced!

And they are in direct partnership with WADA.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

I am double-posting this news since it is relevant to Bobrova as well

IBU delay doping decisions on Ukrainian biathletes due to meldonium question marks

Decisions on the possible suspensions for Ukrainian biathletes Olga Abramova and Artyom Tyshchenko have been delayed after an expert appointed by the sport’s governing body questioned the scientific evidence on how long banned substance meldonium takes to leave the body.

So this may be good news for Bobrova, if the drugs takes longer to leave the system.

 

[Jeschke]

I am double-posting this news since it is relevant to Bobrova as well

IBU delay doping decisions on Ukrainian biathletes due to meldonium question marks



So this may be good news for Bobrova, if the drugs takes longer to leave the system.

problem still is: decision by wada regarding this matter is expected to take place no earlier than september; so Bob seems to be out of GP and in a big loop until then

But I am for sure all in for her triumphant comeback at nationals

 

[Deleted member 40371]

If WADA messed up these results they possible will face some lawsuits, especially if they delay decision till September for summer Olympics athletes since they will miss the Olympics.

 

[MsZem]

problem still is: decision by wada regarding this matter is expected to take place no earlier than september; so Bob seems to be out of GP and in a big loop until then

The Russian federation could save a host spot for Bobrova/Soloviev, and if all works out with the appeals then they could at least compete there.

I really hope that it'll turn out that there's some kind of innocuous explanation for at least some of the positive tests.

 

[altai_rose]

From the article:

“IBU and both athletes, by common agreement, requested, first, to suspend the proceedings until a study which was called a WADA-study will be available and second, that the parties will be given the opportunity to comment on the results of the study,” an IBU statement read.

“The proceedings are suspended until the results of the scientific studies already initiated by WADA-accredited laboratories on the long-term pharmacokinetics of meldonium (mildronate) on healthy humans are available.”

"“We have received WADA explanations in which it said they had held no laboratory tests to establish for how long meldonium can be present in a human organism," Mutko told Russian news agency TASS.

Huh? It seems that WADA did not have any studies of how long meldonium stays in the human body before the ban. If true, that is ridiculous. Or it could be a matter of having enough evidence/larger dataset.

I can't remember what type of study (was it a human, animal model, or in vitro study?) established the 6 hr half life.

 

[PRlady]

The drug use is so widespread that Russia is substituting whole teams:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/07/s...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

 

[kittyjake5]

^My goodness!

 

[Sylvia]

Ekaterina Bobrova was interviewed on Russian TV on March 30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2XeeZGM5AI
Did she say anything notable?

ETA that today's NY Times article is also posted in the general meldonium thread in the Other Sports forum: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/ind...rapova-any-figure-skaters.98163/#post-4770772

 

[reut]

Ekaterina Bobrova was interviewed on Russian TV on March 30: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2XeeZGM5AI
Did she say anything notable?

She is indeed asked about it at the very beginning of their talk. She answers that it's "work in progress", she has a lawyer who is investigating the subject and when she has news she will for sure update us all. Smth like that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Just about the only word I understood aside from names and horosho was "advokat."

But I love her voice, and listened though I didn't understand.

 

[PRlady]

Just about the only word I understood aside from names and horosho was "advokat."

But I love her voice, and listened though I didn't understand.

I'm so taken with the presenter's bowtie I can't concentrate on anything else.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This is insanity. Russian athletes are being punished, not the system. Under-18 hockey team? Kids? These 17 year olds are being scouted by the NHL at the tournament, their draft positions and futures may be adversely affected. What a load of !@#$ this whole situation is.

 

[morqet]

https://wada-mailing-list.s3.amazonaws.com/2016-04-12-Meldonium_Notice_Final.pdf

Updated guidance from WADA - relevant bit about how long it remains in the system:

- Preliminary results obtained from single and multiple drug applications indicate that the urinary elimination of meldonium at recommended doses includes an initial rapid excretion phase (estimated half-life 5-15 h), which is followed by a second, longer elimination phase with an estimated half-life of more than 100 h.
- Based on the preliminary results of the aforementioned studies, this translates to urinary concentrations higher than 10 µg/mL up to 72 h (first elimination phase), followed by a persistent long-term excretion (second elimination phase) yielding concentrations up to approximately 2 µg/mL over the following three weeks. Long term urinary excretion below 1 µg/mL down to several hundred ng/mL can persist for a number of weeks and in the low tens of ng/mL for a few months.

Having any trace in her system found in in competition doping means that the results of that event are invalid. But now they are saying that there is more discretion around a ban; were reasonable attempts were made to ensure it was out of her system before than Jan 1st deadline.

It depends on the concentration in her sample, if it was high as was originally said, then WADA says they should proceed with full disciplinary action. But if it was below 1µg/ml, then there is a chance it is a residual trace from dosage before Jan 1st, and then the anti-doping authorities must decide if they believe the athlete could not have known that the substance would still be present in his/her body on or after 1 January 2016. If they do, then a finding of no fault or negligence may be made.

It looks like this is a nice way for WADA to smooth it all over - gives a reason for why there won't be mass bannings, but if anyone wanted to properly argue it, you could still make a case for negligence. All the claims that meldonium could linger in the body for longer than WADA previously suggested came from Russian authorities & the Latvian manufacturer - if they had evidence of this contrary to WADA's official guidance, why didn't they make more of an effort to be absolutely sure it had cleared systems before Jan 1st. The notice that it would be banned was issued in September - if you go by the new half life timescales provided by WADA, stopping taking it then would have allowed time for it to clear the system by January. Not sure how still taking it in October/November when you know there is potential for it to linger and then acting surprised when it's not out of the system by January is all that much of a defence.

 

[Deleted member 40371]

So WADA is acknowledging it f***ed up, I wonder how many of the athletes are now going to get a reprieve after the latest announcement.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...s-means-some-athletes-could-escape-punishment

BBC article with some experts comments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/36034369

Dr Tom Bassindale, a forensic toxicologist and anti-doping scientist at Sheffield Hallam University, believes Wada may have been too hasty in banning meldonium.

"Wada did not have full information about how meldonium is processed by the body when imposing the ban," he said.

"Originally, it was suggested meldonium would be cleared from the body in a week or two but, with the ever-increasing number of positives, I did become concerned this was not the case and it could be accumulating in the body, much like cannabis does in long-term users."

 

[kittyjake5]

WOW!

 

[hanca]

So WADA is acknowledging it f***ed up, I wonder how many of the athletes are now going to get a reprieve after the latest announcement.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/artic...s-means-some-athletes-could-escape-punishment

BBC article with some experts comments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/36034369

That's awful. Some athletes have already missed competitions and no one can give them those opportunities back. If the level of competition is high in their discipline in their countries, no one can guarantee them that they will have another opportunity the next year. Not the mention the financial damage, because if they medalled at those missed competitions, they would receive financial price that could have been funding their future training. I can't believe that WADA was so keen to ban the athletes that they didn't do proper research first. Shocking!

 

[Coquelicot14]

https://www.rt.com/sport/339419-banned-meldonium-russia-wada/

One more article...
I wonder if some posters that have poured all that hatered on the Russian athletes when the story first appeared are going to take their words back...

 

[MarieM]

Well that's IMO good news if true.

 

[Katha]

WADA is admitting a big screw up here, if true. Shouldn't they have made sure that they knew how the drug works and how long it stays in the system before handing out those bans? Even if they clear the athletes now, many of them will have missed crucial competitions already and suffered financial losses. What are they gonna do about that?

 

[morqet]

https://www.rt.com/sport/339419-banned-meldonium-russia-wada/

One more article...
I wonder if some posters that have poured all that hatered on the Russian athletes when the story first appeared are going to take their words back...

It means nothing until we know what the concentration of the substance found in the athletes' samples is. Only those who failed tests before 1st March and with a concentration of less than 1 µg/ml are to be considered for the no fault/or negligence decision.

They need to clarify the "could not reasonably have known or suspected that the substance would still be present in his/her body". If an athlete was still taking it in December when they knew it would be banned from January, but claimed they were told it would be gone by then so thought it would be fine, is that an acceptable defence?

 

[Coquelicot14]

It means nothing until we know what the concentration of the substance found in the athletes' samples is. Only those who failed tests before 1st March and with a concentration of less than 1 µg/ml are to be considered for the no fault/or negligence decision.

They need to clarify the "could not reasonably have known or suspected that the substance would still be present in his/her body". If an athlete was still taking it in December when they knew it would be banned from January, but claimed they were told it would be gone by then so thought it would be fine, is that an acceptable defence?

As I mentioned in one of my post at the very beginning of this thread (or perhaps the other thread on the subject in this forum) it was made clear that the longevity of the traces of the substance has never been studied. It was supposed that it was 2-3 days, but it's clearly not the case. That is precisely why all off the talks of "hang the witch" were premature... Will these new findings clear all of the athletes? Perhaps not, but it does explain a lot.
What bothers me is the attitude of some that are very similar to the medieval inquisition mentality. Sad, in this day and age.