The Dance Hall 11: Movin' On Up 2023-2024

[Marta24]

@marbri - Babs needs to unite with more than just Maurizio if she wants to combat the force that is IAM - at both Euros and Worlds. All he has in his school are the two Finnish teams. She knows she needs more countries - it would serve her well to also unite with YGA (Czechs, Georgian #2s, Slovaks) and WISA (Georgian #1s and Israelis - presuming Tkachenko/Kiliakov are sent to Euros & Worlds). That would give them all a fighting chance against IAM. Not that I expect it to happen. For whatever reason, Babs and YGA are not aligned.

Zanni used to work in Babs' coaching team before starting his own school. There was a time ice dance teams from Czechia and Slovakia used to go to her. Nowadays they seem to gravitate more towards Zanni. But yes, none of those coaching camps can do it on their own. IAM is too strong.

 

[marbri]

On a lighter note I love that Corpse Bride FD. Not THAT is fun, brilliantly choreographed program.


eta... in here so I don't litter the place with posts. But my back room quip was part serious but a lot of jest. We all know politics exist. But I also think the IAM programs here, at this competition, were the better choreographed programs to some out of the box themes versus the rather generic programs of the ITA and FIN. Although I will accept arguments in favour of air traffic controllers over the cell phones

 

[Andrea82]

With the Senior GP finalists set, the composition of the panel of judges for GP Final is also almost set

a) first priority will be given to the participating ISU Members in the Senior Final

1) USA (Engel*, Mast*, Cutone*, Marron, Millier*, Cole, Dalley*, Hampton*, Mastumoto or Rey)
2) Canada (Abbott*, Caron*, LeBlanc*, Keen*, Wong*, Allan, Conacher*, Topoloski* or Klein)
3) Italy (Ceccattini*, Cesaro*, Micheli, Orlandesi, Bonfa or Rosa)
4) Great Britain (Buchanan*, Coton, Fernandez*, Visinoni or Russell)

b) second priority will be given to the participating ISU Members in the Junior Final

5) Germany (Baumann, Pipoh*, Balasuriya, Faig, Kimminus* or Stahnke*)
6) Israel (Zaydman)
7) Ukraine (Lisova, Makarova or Medvedieva*)
8) France (Hurth*, Beau*, Dabouis, Perrigouard* or Pontonnier*)

c) third priority, if necessary, will be given to the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating® organizing ISU Members of individual ISU Grand Prix events (Senior)

9) China (Zhang, Huang* or Yang), Japan (Takino* or Kobayashi) or Finland (Saarelainen, Kunnas-Helminen or Lenkola*)

China and Japan judges are cheaper to invite unless Finland Fed send Saarelainen (who has double qualification) for one of their two Single and Pair judging slots.

* Officiated in Ice Dance in Senior Grand Prix events this season.

 

[skatingguy]

With the Senior GP finalists set, the composition of the panel of judges for GP Final is also almost set

a) first priority will be given to the participating ISU Members in the Senior Final

1) USA (Engel*, Mast*, Cutone*, Marron, Millier*, Cole, Dalley*, Hampton*, Mastumoto or Rey)
2) Canada (Abbott*, Caron*, LeBlanc*, Keen*, Wong*, Allan, Conacher*, Topoloski* or Klein)
3) Italy (Ceccattini*, Cesaro*, Micheli, Orlandesi, Bonfa or Rosa)
4) Great Britain (Buchanan*, Coton, Fernandez*, Visinoni or Russell)

b) second priority will be given to the participating ISU Members in the Junior Final

5) Germany (Baumann, Pipoh*, Balasuriya, Faig, Kimminus* or Stahnke*)
6) Israel (Zaydman)
7) Ukraine (Lisova, Makarova or Medvedieva*)
8) France (Hurth*, Beau*, Dabouis, Perrigouard* or Pontonnier*)

c) third priority, if necessary, will be given to the ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating® organizing ISU Members of individual ISU Grand Prix events (Senior)

9) China (Zhang, Huang* or Yang), Japan (Takino* or Kobayashi) or Finland (Saarelainen, Kunnas-Helminen or Lenkola*)

China and Japan judges are cheaper to invite unless Finland Fed send Saarelainen (who has double qualification) for one of their two Single and Pair judging slots.

* Officiated in Ice Dance in Senior Grand Prix events this season.

Canada's got half the skaters in the Senior Ice Dance competition, so we get half the judges right?

 

[Andrea82]

Sum of Grand Prix scores for couple with 2 events. In brackets, teams with only one event, positioned based on them repeating their only GP outing

Charlene Guignard / Marco Fabbri 429.10

Piper Gilles / Paul Poirier 426.84

Lilah Fear / Lewis Gibson 424.74

Madison Chock / Evan Bates 422.42

Laurence Fournier Beaudry / Nikolaj Soerensen 411.47

Marjorie Lajoie / Zachary Lagha 403.01

Allison Reed / Saulius Ambrulevicius 388.87

Juulia Turkkila / Matthias Versluis 386.81

Evgeniia Lopareva / Geoffrey Brissaud 384.29

Christina Carreira / Anthony Ponomarenko 375.46

Caroline Green / Michael Parsons 374.40

(Natalie Taschlerova / Filip Taschler)

Emilea Zingas / Vadym Kolesnik 368.74

Loicia Demougeot / Theo Le Mercier 367.86

Eva Pate / Logan Bye 366.04

Oona Brown / Gage Brown 364.83

Emily Bratti / Ian Somerville 362.82

Marie-Jade Lauriault / Romain Le Gac 358.87

(Maria Kazakova / Giorgi Revia)

(Yuka Orihara / Juho Pirinen)

Olivia Smart / Tim Dieck 347.25

(Alicia Fabbri / Paul Ayer)

Katerina Mrazkova / Daniel Mrazek 343.42

Hannah Lim / Ye Quan 342.96

(Molly Lanaghan / Dmitre Razgulajevs)

Jennifer Janse Van Rensburg / Benjamin Steffan 337.07

(Nadiia Bashynska / Peter Beaumont)

(Marie Dupayage / Thomas Nabais)

(Misato Komatsubara / Tim Koleto)

Lorraine Mcnamara / Anton Spiridonov 332.09

(Shiyue Wang / Xinyu Liu)

(Xizi Chen / Jianing Xing)

(Holly Harris / Jason Chan)

(Natacha Lagouge / Arnaud Caffa)

(Mariia Ignateva / Danijil Leonyidovics Szemko)

(Shang Shi / Nan Wu)

 

[aliona22]

Putting skating skills piece by piece I think it is a tragedy to be honest. What precedence does this set? That skating skills, deep edges and perfection are no longer important?

It’s very reminiscent of the D/W era, particularly when V/M were healthy and losing to them. On Twitter I saw some comparisons of the scores coming up to Sotnikova in Sochi, but I think of the dance event in Sochi, and in Calgary the year before… wondering am I even watching the same sport as the judging panel? The difference in quality is so significant and yet seems to count for nothing.

 

[Wyliefan]

F/G are no D/W.

 

[Karen-W]

F/G are no D/W.

Right? I'm sitting here, scratching my head wondering what D/W ever did to deserve such a comparison. Apart from beating the FSU-sainted V/M in Sochi, that is.

 

[aliona22]

Well G/F are also no V/M. It’s an example of a similar scenario I’m reminded of by the judging at this event.

 

[Wyliefan]

It's really not that similar. Davis/White were more talented and deserving than a lot of Virtue/Moir fans wanted to admit.

 

[manhn]

The top 3 have had “close calls” this season and last season, so let’s see what happens later this year. NHK had surprising results last year.

No one stands out so the results should change over the course of a season.

 

[~tapdancer~]

It's really not that similar. Davis/White were more talented and deserving than a lot of Virtue/Moir fans wanted to admit.

Thinking back, I know we D/W ubers loved them and supported them through thick and thin but Canadian ice dance fans were kinda on another level...I remember in the 90s how Bourne/Kraatz were fiercely loved and no other Canadian team could touch them. Internationally was more difficult for them but it didn't change how much the fans were crazy about them. V/M was on yet another level...the love for them reached such epic levels I am surprised they were able to have personal lives at all. I admire both V/M and D/W that they were able to come through it all.

 

[Sonata]

I see this a bit differently than being about I.AM. I think judges for whatever reason keep elevating F/G despite Fear’s inferior skating skills. They placed ahead of FB/S last year and almost made the podium. Trend wise I see the judges favouring G/P this year for whatever reason, maybe in some attempt to dislodge I.AM. I personally don’t see anything special in their lyrical or the music they chose, but lyrical seems to be what’s favoured at the moment - except when it comes to F/G.

F/G are entertaining and their unison was on fire yesterday. They obviously work hard. But they’re really not in the same league technically as the top teams. I keep thinking of the days of Argentine tango, golden waltz, etc. They would have a lot of trouble with those. I would really like to see some of the classic dance requirements back in ice dance.

 

[~tapdancer~]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Sonata. Compulsory dances. That's where the skills and edge work were learned. It's where the cream was separated from the milk. I knew one day getting rid of compulsory dances would cause a shift. I was sad to see them go because that part of the comp was where it was easy for me to see the differences in teams.

 

[Ka3sha]

Watching Ice Dance on the GP events made me realize two things:
1. Surprisingly enough I miss Kana/Dai the most among those who have retired recently. And definitely Zueva's choreography.
2. Hoping for Hawayek/Baker's return on the competitive ice

Judging and scores suck as usual, but hell yeah that's why we all love ice dance

 

[PRlady]

Watching Ice Dance on the GP events made me realize two things:
1. Surprisingly enough I miss Kana/Dai the most among those who have retired recently. And definitely Zueva's choreography.
2. Hoping for Hawayek/Baker's return on the competitive ice

Judging and scores sucks as usual, but hell yeah that's why we all love ice dance

Agreed on both counts. Kana/Dai’s RD last year was the most interesting of all. And of course no one wants H/B back more than I do, am hoping they come back full strength and shake up the standings.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

And of course no one wants H/B back more than I do

I will fight you for this.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

H/B's Chopin FD last year

I miss them too

 

[deegee]

H/B's Chopin FD last year

I miss them too

their return to the gp series was the only thing i've been looking forward to this season. i really hope they are well enough to return this season, i miss them so much.

 

[yurokis40]

quite embarrasing the marks the judges are giving fear and gibson someone is pulling the strings behind the scenes for them, Lilah fear`s dad is a billionnaire reminds me of boris Chait with his daughter Galit. I am also pissed at Marie france for giving lolo and Nik 2 average programs this year, its like she wants them out of contention for the word podium you have to wonder what types of extras she gets from rival federations to canada, like the brits and americans.

 

[Belsornia]

Ice dancers in search of technical minimums....

The end of the GP series feels like a turning point in the season, so here's a stocktake on who's going to be hitting up Bosphorus Cup / Bavarian Open / Egna Trophy etc in search of those elusive minimums. I haven't included teams who don't have their minimums from countries who already have enough eligible teams to fill their championship spots.

Euros/4CCs
AUS - Romy Malcolm / Kobi Chant (need both), India Nette / Eron Westwood (need FD - season debut at Golden Spin)
DEN - Elisabetta Incardona / Rafael Musil (need both)
JPN - Azusa Tanaka / Shingo Nishiyama (need both), Utana Yoshida / Masaya Morita (need both) - both teams making their international debut at Golden Spin
TUR - Katarina DelCamp / Berk Akalin (need both) - presumably they're planning to compete internationally at some point, though since they're not on the start list for Bosphorus Cup or Golden Spin I guess that won't be at Euros

Worlds
ARM - Viktoriia Azroian / Artur Gruzdev (need RD)
AZE - Adrienne Carhart / Oleksandr Kolosovskyi (need FD), Samatha Ritter / Daniel Brykalov (need RD)
BEL - Livvy Shilling / Leo Baeten (need both)
BRA - Natalia Pallu-Neves / Jayin Panesar (need RD)
CHE - Nicole Calderari / Christian Murer (need both), Ariana Sassi / Luca Morini (need RD), Gina Zehnder / Beda Sieber (need both - senior debut at Bosphorus Cup)
KAZ - Gaukhar Nauryzonz / Boyisangur Datiev (need RD)
LTU - Paulina Ramanauskaite / Deividas Kizala (need both)
POL - Oleksandra Borysova / Aaron Freeman (need both), Sofiia Dovhal / Wiktor Kulesza (need RD), Olivia Oliver / Filip Bojanowski (need FD) - Polibina/Golovishnikov have minimums but she tore her Achilles at Warsaw Cup so seems reasonable to assume they may be out for the rest of the season

Junior Worlds
AUS - Renee Yuen / Oliver Ma (need both)
EST - Ksenia Sipunova / Miron Korjagin (need both)
KAZ - Eva Shelaeva / Ivan Solovyev (need FD)
TUK - Irmak Yucel / Daniil Pak (need both - debut at Bosphorus Cup)
ZAF - Felicity Chase / Mikhail Ajam (need both)

 

[Sonata]

I think you hit the nail on the head, Sonata. Compulsory dances. That's where the skills and edge work were learned. It's where the cream was separated from the milk. I knew one day getting rid of compulsory dances would cause a shift. I was sad to see them go because that part of the comp was where it was easy for me to see the differences in teams.

Compulsory dances forced the dancers to work on edges. They were also very political, so I can see why they were removed. Plus the competitions used to be looong. But I was shocked to realize they even took out the equivalent of the compulsory dance out of the rhythm dance.

 

[deegee]

Compulsory dances forced the dancers to work on edges. They were also very political, so I can see why they were removed. Plus the competitions used to be looong. But I was shocked to realize they even took out the equivalent of the compulsory dance out of the rhythm dance.

edges, yes, but also on holds, carriage, precise turns, and everything to specific rhythms which required learning to express the character of each dance. everything is political in every discipline in fs, so if that's the standard for removing things from competition, may as well throw it all out

 

[nuge]

Imagine Marina Klimova doing boxing moves pushups skipping grabbing the barrier falling on the ice !Is this what ice dance has become?

 

[Trillian]

Imagine Marina Klimova doing boxing moves pushups skipping grabbing the barrier falling on the ice !

I just took a moment to imagine that and highly recommend that others do the same; it was glorious.

Speaking of the 90s, Fear & Gibson kind of remind me of what it was like to watch skaters like Elvis Stojko and Surya Bonaly in that era. Do they have some major deficits in areas where we traditionally want our top skaters to be better? Yes. Are they exceptionally good at certain other things? Also yes! It’s a mixed bag and I’m definitely going to have a meltdown next time they beat Hawayek & Baker, but I will say I generally find them entertaining.

 

[Sonata]

I just took a moment to imagine that and highly recommend that others do the same; it was glorious.

Speaking of the 90s, Fear & Gibson kind of remind me of what it was like to watch skaters like Elvis Stojko and Surya Bonaly in that era. Do they have some major deficits in areas where we traditionally want our top skaters to be better? Yes. Are they exceptionally good at certain other things? Also yes! It’s a mixed bag and I’m definitely going to have a meltdown next time they beat Hawayek & Baker, but I will say I generally find them entertaining.

Elvis Stojko had incredible core and edge control. His range might leave something to be desired but he had excellent basics. It’s part of why he looks so strong even now in his 50s. Unlike for F/G, I’d never criticize his technical skill.
Surya OTOH - I would have loved COP to have existed when she skated so she could have received some specific feedback. She broke a lot of barriers but I would never put her in a skating skills video….

 

[Andrea82]

Ice dancers in search of technical minimums....

The end of the GP series feels like a turning point in the season, so here's a stocktake on who's going to be hitting up Bosphorus Cup / Bavarian Open / Egna Trophy etc in search of those elusive minimums. I haven't included teams who don't have their minimums from countries who already have enough eligible teams to fill their championship spots.

Euros/4CCs
AUS - Romy Malcolm / Kobi Chant (need both), India Nette / Eron Westwood (need FD - season debut at Golden Spin)
DEN - Elisabetta Incardona / Rafael Musil (need both)
JPN - Azusa Tanaka / Shingo Nishiyama (need both), Utana Yoshida / Masaya Morita (need both) - both teams making their international debut at Golden Spin
TUR - Katarina DelCamp / Berk Akalin (need both) - presumably they're planning to compete internationally at some point, though since they're not on the start list for Bosphorus Cup or Golden Spin I guess that won't be at Euros

Worlds
ARM - Viktoriia Azroian / Artur Gruzdev (need RD)
AZE - Adrienne Carhart / Oleksandr Kolosovskyi (need FD), Samatha Ritter / Daniel Brykalov (need RD)
BEL - Livvy Shilling / Leo Baeten (need both)
BRA - Natalia Pallu-Neves / Jayin Panesar (need RD)
CHE - Nicole Calderari / Christian Murer (need both), Ariana Sassi / Luca Morini (need RD), Gina Zehnder / Beda Sieber (need both - senior debut at Bosphorus Cup)
KAZ - Gaukhar Nauryzonz / Boyisangur Datiev (need RD)
LTU - Paulina Ramanauskaite / Deividas Kizala (need both)
POL - Oleksandra Borysova / Aaron Freeman (need both), Sofiia Dovhal / Wiktor Kulesza (need RD), Olivia Oliver / Filip Bojanowski (need FD) - Polibina/Golovishnikov have minimums but she tore her Achilles at Warsaw Cup so seems reasonable to assume they may be out for the rest of the season

Junior Worlds
AUS - Renee Yuen / Oliver Ma (need both)
EST - Ksenia Sipunova / Miron Korjagin (need both)
KAZ - Eva Shelaeva / Ivan Solovyev (need FD)
TUK - Irmak Yucel / Daniil Pak (need both - debut at Bosphorus Cup)
ZAF - Felicity Chase / Mikhail Ajam (need both)

Carhart/Kolosovskyi have the FD minimum from the magical world of 2022 Denis Ten Memorial

 

[Andora]

I just took a moment to imagine that and highly recommend that others do the same; it was glorious.

Speaking of the 90s, Fear & Gibson kind of remind me of what it was like to watch skaters like Elvis Stojko and Surya Bonaly in that era. Do they have some major deficits in areas where we traditionally want our top skaters to be better? Yes. Are they exceptionally good at certain other things? Also yes! It’s a mixed bag and I’m definitely going to have a meltdown next time they beat Hawayek & Baker, but I will say I generally find them entertaining.

Love this. And agreed. I mean, the only teams I deeply love, F&G are beating already, so...

It's a privileged position to not have favs fighting for medals, meaning I could strictly enjoy potential dramatics when I saw the NHK results.

I do assume there is always a slight push underneath skaters that seem to bring in new viewers to figure skating. The push doesn't always mean they end up at the top, but high enough to be a draw at competitions and shows. Fear & Gibson are not always my bag, but really appreciate their ability to develop a new fanbase for skating.

Also I usually love G&F but not this year for some reason, and any justification for this sentiment is just that.

 

[sap5]

Imagine Marina Klimova doing boxing moves pushups skipping grabbing the barrier falling on the ice !Is this what ice dance has become?

LOL. If there were a team that I could easily imagine doing any of those things, it would be K/P. After all, they were once out there doing things like this Dracula program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YsZ4kUJoso

 

[DORISPULASKI]

It is a bit easier for me to envision Bestemianova & Bukin doing it than K&P.
Remember

Bestemianova & Bukin Rasputin

youtu.be