Who are some of the great coaches who have yet to coach an OGM winner?

[savchenkoboss]

Frank's recent retirement, having finally gotten his Olympic Gold medal in 2010, makes me think of some of the great coaches have yet to coach an OGM. Some that kind to me for me are:

Doug Lee- He coached both Brian Orser and Elvis Stojko to 2 Olympic silver medals each, and coached numerous other international level Canadian (and some non Canadian such as Steven Cousins) singles skaters.

Richard Gauthier- He coached Sale & Pelletier to their years of dominance, but they left him right before the Olympic season. He also coached Duhamel & Radford until they bailed on him right before their final Olympic season. He he has been a goldmine of coaching top pairs talent over the years.

Josee Picard- She coached Brasseur & Eisler, an Olympic Gold medal hopeful in the early 90s. Also the coach of many top Canadian pairs, including recently Sequin & Bilodeau who some thought would be included in The Team Event which won a gold medal in Pyeoncheng.

John Nicks- A legendary singles and pairs coach. I believe he is yet to coach an Olympic gold medalist. Babilionia & Gardner were ensured atleast Olympic silver, with a shot at Olympic Gold, in Lake Placid, but had to withdraw. He coached Sasha Cohen to a World and Olympic silver. Others he coached include Tiffany Chin, Christopher Bowman, Meno & Sand, Ashley Wagner. Many World medalists, even a World Champion in B&G, but never an Olympic gold medalist.

Natalia Dubova- Coached Klimova & Ponomarenko for many years until they left her right before the Albertville Olympic season, where they ended up winning Olympic Gold under her arch rival Tarasova. Coached Usova & Zhulin for many years, who missed the Olympic Gold in 94 by a mere .1 to her former pupils Gritschuk & Platov. Also coached Bourne & Kraatz, and many other top Russian and foreign teams.

Martin Scotnicky- Coached the Duchensays during the height of their success, but they missed the Olympic Gold in 92. Coached Rakhammo & Kokko and many other top dance teams in his career. Also was one of the coaches of 2 time Olympic silver medalist Claudia Leistner.

Evy & Mary Scotvold- Coached Paul Wylie and Nancy Kerrigan, amongst others, each who won an Olympic silver medal some thought should have been an Olympic Gold, moreso Nancy who lost gold by .1 of a point. A husband and wife duo known as two of the absolute kindest and sweetest people in the sport. Also coached Jenny Kirk, Nicole Bobek, Sandy Lenz, amongst others.

 

[soogar]

Tom Z has yet to coach an OGM winner but he's a very respected coach.

 

[screech]

Lee Barkell - coached Jeff Buttle, Nobunari Oda... also coaches Gabby Daleman who has a team gold, though she herself was 3rd in her segment

Rafael Arutunian - has coached Michelle Kwan, Nathan Chen, Jeff Buttle, Mao Asada, Ashley Wagner, Adam Rippon...

 

[savchenkoboss]

Lee Barkell - coached Jeff Buttle, Nobunari Oda... also coaches Gabby Daleman who has a team gold, though she herself was 3rd in her segment

Rafael Arutunian - has coached Michelle Kwan, Nathan Chen, Jeff Buttle, Mao Asada, Ashley Wagner, Adam Rippon...

Oh yes thanks so much for bringing those two up. Cant believe I forgot them.

Igor Moskvin might be another one. I dont remember everyone he coached but I do know he coached a lot of different top pairs. Selezneva & Makarov and Eltsova & Bushkov for years.

Was I correct in saying John Nicks never coached an Olympic Gold medalist? He coached Sasha Cohen to an Olympic silver.

 

[gk_891]

Believe it or not, Natalia Dubova also once coached Linichuk & Karponosov in the 70s before they left her Chaikovskaya. She also briefly coached Moiseeva & Minenkov briefly before they retired (and were no longer gold medal contenders). And then there's also Tatiana Navka who became Olympic champion with a different coach many years after Dubova sent her away after the 1994 Worlds.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Believe it or not, Natalia Dubova also once coached Linichuk & Karponosov in the 70s before they left her Chaikovskaya. She also briefly coached Moiseeva & Minenkov briefly before they retired (and were no longer gold medal contenders). And then there's also Tatiana Navka who became Olympic champion with a different coach many years after Dubova sent her away after the 1994 Worlds.

Poor Dubova. I almost wish Usova & Zhulin had won the 94 Olympics, not so much for their stake (especialy given what a scumbag of a human being he has proven to be) but more theirs. It is sad such an amazing technical coach does not have an Olympic Gold. Especialy as I think she is the best technical coach in ice dance in her prime, even over Linichuk and Tarasova. And very creative and able to come up with great programs for her teams, unlike Linichuk who is a great technical coach but generally comes up with bland and forgettable programs for her teams, kind of like her own as a skater.

 

[gk_891]

Poor Dubova. I almost wish Usova & Zhulin had won the 94 Olympics, not so much for their stake (especialy given what a scumbag of a human being he has proven to be) but more theirs. It is sad such an amazing technical coach does not have an Olympic Gold. Especialy as I think she is the best technical coach in ice dance in her prime, even over Linichuk and Tarasova. And very creative and able to come up with great programs for her teams, unlike Linichuk who is a great technical coach but generally comes up with bland and forgettable programs for her teams, kind of like her own as a skater.

Linichuk/Karponosov's abilities to teach technique is ok but not great IMO. Her skaters are very aggressive and they often skate very well rehearsed programs but their edges are IMO sometimes good but not great and their handholds are not as soft and fluid as they should be.

Linichuk sometimes will have good ideas but it's been mentioned before that she's not very good making them come to fruition. Programs like G&P's rock'n'roll, K&O's Carmen and their African Drums, etc. were all very good ideas on paper but the end results were pretty mediocre and not very well choreographed.

 

[savchenkoboss]

IMO the best thing Linichuk & Karpanasov ever did was getting Denkova & Stayviski back on track after their decline in 2005. Beyond that very little she managed as a coach impressed me. G&P winning the Olympics was mostly a combination of their overdue getting rewarded for their speed and technical abilities, U&Z's awful programs that year and decline (due to their impending divorce, increasingly bad personal life), T&D being partly out of favor for whatever reason and their own LP choice being a bad miss of sorts, and internal politics in Russia switching from U&Z to G&P for some personal related reason (I heard Dubova did something that upset the Russian fed and they punished by dumping U&Z from Russian #1 status in their and Dubova's long awaited OGM coronation year, I forget what it was though). Basically it was through combination of hard work and talent of G&P, and also fortunate circumstances around them, certainly not her own coaching methods. Dubova in fact gave G&P better and more interesting programs, which also showcased their technical skills better to boot in 92, than they had in 94. Of course their maturity and polish was higher in 94 but that was simply age, not coaching. It sad such a result makes Linichuk look like a more effective coach than Dubova, when the truth is anything but. I agree the Rock and Roll program was a great idea on paper, so was the routine G&P had in 95, but the end result did not live up to the potential somehow.

Dubova sadly sunk her own grave some too though by sending away any horndog Zhulin had an affair with, which was everyone and everything under the sun. If I were her I would given him an ultimatum instead, it shouldnt be that difficult for a grown married man to keep his pants off after all, especialy one fortunate enough to be married to a beautiful and exotic women like Maya who he should have considered himself lucky to have gotten. In addition to the mistake of favoring U&Z, she also should have given in to Marina Klimova's desire to branch out artistically. Clearly losing the FD at the 90 Worlds to the Duchensays worried them greatly, as it should have, the judges were sending a message they wanted them to branch out, Marina herself was ready and desired this, and she should have given in her to these desires rather than fighting them on it and alienating her relationship with them in the process.

It was very sad to see Dubova in later years become bitter and jaded. I think not winning the OGM, dealing with a rather cynical and bitter team like B&K themselves which only fed into the increasingly cynical and bitter outlook she herself had on the sport. For whatever criticsms you have of B&K she did help them improve a lot from the low they hit around December 95, particularly from that point to winter 97. In addition to an excellent coach she seems like a very thoughtful, intelligent, and emotional women, and it was sad to see her become increasingly bitter, jaded, and lost in the sport she long loved in the late 90s, into the 2000s. Victor Kraatz told stories of how she would speak of stories and memories from her husbands experience as an athlete, and the highs and lows and regrets he had, and how the main thing is not the end result but that you feel at peace of having tried and left nothing to chance, and use those to relate to him and others as a person, so it is obvious she is a very insightful and considerate women. My last real sighting of her was coaching Chait & Shaknovsky to their super controversial bronze at the 2002 worlds which had skaters sign a protest against. It is a sad way for her to go out of the sport. It was also flat out bizarre to see her as one of the secondary coaches of Anissina & Peizerat in their last 2 seasons and when they won the SLC when they had been the devils incaranation to her during their rivalry with Bourne & Kraatz in 96/97, 97/98, 98/99, who she had dissed endlessly that period, showing again what a cynical hypocrite she had sadly become.

 

[gk_891]

My last memory of Dubova was after the 2004 Worlds when she made a public statement that Denkova & Staviski deserved to win the gold over N&K. Apparently D&S tried out with her that summer before they decided on Linichuk & Karponosov.

It's been mentioned here before that Dubova didn't seem to be very good when it came to campaigning for her teams. Linichuk and Tarasova OTOH were amazing at that which is why they managed to sweep the Olympic glory with some of Dubova's former teams!

 

[MrMystery]

Ohhhhh Dubova... Agree a lot with what has been said above; she wasn't the best at politicking and didn't seem to have the ability to aid in keeping her students personal lives in check. I think she also just had bad luck with timing. And lastly, I don't think she evolved well - she reigned pretty supreme in the late 80's and early 90's, but very then on it was kind of downhill. She actually did some pretty impressive work with B&K in terms of skating skills, but other than that...

 

[savchenkoboss]

Part of Dubova's problem politically speaking after 92 is she moved to the U.S and mostly coached U.S and Canadian teams, apart from Usova & Zhulin. Linichuk also moved to the U.S but mostly coached Russian or European teams. Tarasova stayed in Russia, and remained pro Russian to the hilt. Even to then she wasn't great at politicking for her teams, but it became worse after that.

She also was known to butt heads with the Russian fed. needlessly. I recall hearing the reason U&Z were bumped to Russian #2 for G&P in the 94 Olympic season is she refused to obey an order from the Russian fed on something very basic and easy to have done. I forget exactly what it was now, but it wasnt a big deal, and she just chose to be stubborn. Tarasova, Linichuk, and other top Russian dance coaches knew you played the game and did not dare butt heads with massive egoists like Piseev and his vile dragon of a wife, and their ilk.

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

Jim Petersen and Delila Sappenfeld, two different but equal amazing US coach's. Both have had all the goods - raw talent, "graceful" poses, unique and cool music all the time. It is only a matter of time before one of them has a team that wings the gold at the Games, mark my word's!

 

[gk_891]

Part of Dubova's problem politically speaking after 92 is she moved to the U.S and mostly coached U.S and Canadian teams, apart from Usova & Zhulin. Linichuk also moved to the U.S but mostly coached Russian or European teams. Tarasova stayed in Russia, and remained pro Russian to the hilt. Even to then she wasn't great at politicking for her teams, but it became worse after that.

She also was known to butt heads with the Russian fed. needlessly. I recall hearing the reason U&Z were bumped to Russian #2 for G&P in the 94 Olympic season is she refused to obey an order from the Russian fed on something very basic and easy to have done. I forget exactly what it was now, but it wasnt a big deal, and she just chose to be stubborn. Tarasova, Linichuk, and other top Russian dance coaches knew you played the game and did not dare butt heads with massive egoists like Piseev and his vile dragon of a wife, and their ilk.

Allegedly the Russian Fed wanted to see U&Z's programs ahead of time to give feedback. But they refused (Zhulin years later said it was because he was injured at the time). So they switched their support to G&P which I find interesting because G&P were almost dropped the previous season when they nearly finished 3rd or 4th. The behind the scenes stuff is almost more interesting than what goes on the ice.

 

[savchenkoboss]

Allegedly the Russian Fed wanted to see U&Z's programs ahead of time to give feedback. But they refused (Zhulin years later said it was because he was injured at the time). So they switched their support to G&P which I find interesting because G&P were almost dropped the previous season when they nearly finished 3rd or 4th. The behind the scenes stuff is almost more interesting than what goes on the ice.

Yeah it is pretty clear G&P were out of favor by the Russian fed since even though they won silver as expected at the 93 worlds, they nearly finished 4th and off the podium in a way (they had numerous 4th place ordinals in both the OD and FD, the ordinals were evenly split between all 3 of G&P, K&F, and R&K). Yet Krylova & Fedorov who were also coached by Linichuk seemed to be very in favor politically, they even had two 1st place ordinals in the FD over U&Z at those worlds which were the only ordinals anyone had over U&Z at those worlds, very nearly took silver, and IMO undeservedly took bronze over Rahkammo & Kokko who should have been on the podium that year. So it interesting how both with the same coach, one was falling out of favor, the other was seemingly being pushed and heavily in favor as a brand new team.

Yet then the very next year G&P suddenly shot into favor, while the other (K&F) totally all of a sudden fell out of favor with the judges, dropping to 6th at both the Europeans and Olympics below Moniotte & Lavanchy. Both teams still sharing Linichuk as a coach. Then at worlds even before her injury were tied with Romanova & Yaroshenko after the CDs, causing Anjelika to jump off the sinking Titanic to a new partner. At Europeans M&L fell twice in their FD and still beat K&F in the FD portion. At the Games they barely beat Romanova & Yaroshenko in a split decision in the FD, otherwise would have dropped behind them overall. K&F were using their FD from the previous year which was called by announcers and judges the ideal ballroom dancing style program that suited the revamped ice dancing rules they wanted the previous year, even if many fans found it boring and not overly complex, and now suddenly a year later were turning up their nose totally at. Just fascinating all that might have been happening behind the scenes we never saw.

 

[gk_891]

Yeah it is pretty clear G&P were out of favor by the Russian fed since even though they won silver as expected at the 93 worlds, they nearly finished 4th and off the podium in a way (they had numerous 4th place ordinals in both the OD and FD, the ordinals were evenly split between all 3 of G&P, K&F, and R&K). Yet Krylova & Fedorov who were also coached by Linichuk seemed to be very in favor politically, they even had two 1st place ordinals in the FD over U&Z at those worlds which were the only ordinals anyone had over U&Z at those worlds, very nearly took silver, and IMO undeservedly took bronze over Rahkammo & Kokko who should have been on the podium that year. So it interesting how both with the same coach, one was falling out of favor, the other was seemingly being pushed and heavily in favor as a brand new team.

Yet then the very next year G&P suddenly shot into favor, while the other (K&F) totally all of a sudden fell out of favor with the judges, dropping to 6th at both the Europeans and Olympics below Moniotte & Lavanchy. Both teams still sharing Linichuk as a coach. Then at worlds even before her injury were tied with Romanova & Yaroshenko after the CDs, causing Anjelika to jump off the sinking Titanic to a new partner. At Europeans M&L fell twice in their FD and still beat K&F in the FD portion. At the Games they barely beat Romanova & Yaroshenko in a split decision in the FD, otherwise would have dropped behind them overall. K&F were using their FD from the previous year which was called by announcers and judges the ideal ballroom dancing style program that suited the revamped ice dancing rules they wanted the previous year, even if many fans found it boring and not overly complex, and now suddenly a year later were turning up their nose totally at. Just fascinating all that might have been happening behind the scenes we never saw.

I found it funny how Romanova & Yaroshenko were suddenly very much in the judges' favour in 1994. Because like you mentioned, they almost beat K&F at the Olympics and were tied with them after the compulsories at Worlds. I wonder if it had to do with K&F being the 3rd ranked Russian team whereas R&Y were the first ranked Ukrainian team.

What's also interesting is that R&Y were very much on a downhill slide in 1995. But then they shot back up the rankings in 1996 although that was more likely because Moniotte & Lavanchy were away with injury and Navka & Gezalian had split up. But the fact that they actually medalled at Europeans that year over Anissina & Peizerat was something that boggled my mind.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I found it funny how Romanova & Yaroshenko were suddenly very much in the judges' favour in 1994. Because like you mentioned, they almost beat K&F at the Olympics and were tied with them after the compulsories at Worlds. I wonder if it had to do with K&F being the 3rd ranked Russian team whereas R&Y were the first ranked Ukrainian team.

What's also interesting is that R&Y were very much on a downhill slide in 1995. But then they shot back up the rankings in 1996 although that was more likely because Moniotte & Lavanchy were away with injury and Navka & Gezalian had split up. But the fact that they actually medalled at Europeans that year over Anissina & Peizerat was something that boggled my mind.

Romanova & Yaroshenko went up and down the rankings the entire 94-98 period. I cant really speak to what it was, but all I know is they never once impressed me. Their technical abilities were subpar, skating skills weak, and almost all their programs were boring so they didnt even have captivating choreography, on ice chemistry, or a real personality out there going for them. Chris Cuthbert put it perfectly in the CBC booth "this is one team the judges dont seem to know what to do with, in the last 5 years they have been 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th, 8th, here 9th, and that is a real roller coaster ride in ice dancing."

The 96 Europeans result was pretty comical. Anissina & Peizerat had beaten R&Y at Skate Canada even with a huge fall, and been beating Bourne & Kraatz most of the season, and at Europeans R&Y had a big stumble in their FD while A&P didnt have their best skate but it was clean with no errors. Something political was amiss there.

 

[gk_891]

The one program from Romanova & Yaroshenko I didn't mind was their rhumba OD in 1994. I thought it was a pleasant dance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iQ7QAKgwI

But overall, they were defnitely an overmarked and overrated team. I actually had them ranked outside of the top 10 by the time 1998 came around.

Other teams from that era that I liked better but were much further down in the rankings were:

Stergiadu & Razguliaevs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9CdLWKYS8w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ghvIvYmI8 (the look of disappointment on his face in the K&C area is very clear)

Stekolnikova & Kazarlyga
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG0gcZufd88

Nechaeva & Chesnichenko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-fWpYFnwg (I think this was their only outing as seniors)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the above teams were so amazing that they should've been medal contenders. But I did think they were better than many of the teams ranked ahead of them.

 

[briancoogaert]

Linichuk/Karponosov's abilities to teach technique is ok but not great IMO. Her skaters are very aggressive and they often skate very well rehearsed programs but their edges are IMO sometimes good but not great and their handholds are not as soft and fluid as they should be.

Linichuk sometimes will have good ideas but it's been mentioned before that she's not very good making them come to fruition. Programs like G&P's rock'n'roll, K&O's Carmen and their African Drums, etc. were all very good ideas on paper but the end results were pretty mediocre and not very well choreographed.

ITA about Linicuk.
IMO, a great tehcnical coach in Ice Dance is Danielle Marotel (Moniotte&Lavanchy's coach).

 

[gk_891]

ITA about Linicuk.
IMO, a great tehcnical coach in Ice Dance is Danielle Marotel (Moniotte&Lavanchy's coach).

I'm not as familiar with her as I am with Muriel Boucher-Zazoui. Has Danielle had any other high profile students?

 

[Frau Muller]

Didier Gailhaguet - for such a famous coach...Surya was the most famous student but there were others, yes?

Machiko Yamada - many, many students on various World & Oly teams

Nobuo Sato - ditto

They were rarely absent from the boards at so many World and Olympics, for a long stretch of time.

 

[aliceanne]

Ellen Burka - she coached her daughter to a World Championship, the Bezics, Toller Cranston, Jay Humphreys, and Tracy Wainman among others. She also coached and choreographed Dorothy Hamill during her Olympic year, but Fassi got all the credit.

She was known for teaching theater and musicality to her students. I guess along those lines you could add Osborne Colson.

 

[briancoogaert]

Didier Gailhaguet - for such a famous coach...Surya was the most famous student but there were others, yes?

Gailhaguet was not a famous coach. He is a famous Federation's President.
He has coached a lot of french skaters in the 80's, including Eric Millot.
None of his students from that period was a Gold medal contender.

 

[Bellanca]

I'm pretty sure that Rafael has entertained having the distinction of being the coach of a possible future OGM if Nathan Chen decides to stick with him, survives the rigors and demands of college, stays healthy and motivated. Of course, Nathan, as with any skater, will have to stay a step or two ahead of future newbies and any gifted phenoms unknown to us at the moment, not to mention seasoned veterans. Roughly three and a half years away, yet... A lot of things can and will happen. So, who knows.

Also, it's possible that one day Tom Z. will get a crack at it - because you just never know who might come knocking on the door.

 

[rosewood]

Machiko Yamada