What is Davis and White's legacy in the sport?

[Dolore]

It seems like Meryl Davis and Charlie White have been slightly forgotten by ice dance fans over the last 5 years. Despite an Olympic gold medal and their stint on DWTS they are hardly brought up in conversation anymore. The champions and innovators of the 80ies and 90ies are still mentioned quite frequently, upcoming skaters usually reference Virtue Moir as their idols, and fans wonder what kind of influence Papadakis and Cizeron will have on the sport.
Davis and White's style of skating on the other hand has fallen out of favor with the judges and fans as well. In the past their legacy was closely tied to the rivalry with virtue and Moir but the Canadians have moved on from that and have cemented their own legacy independently from any rivalry.
When people argue over who are the GOATS of ice dance D/W are rarely brought up.

Why do you think is that and how will D/W be remembered ten years down the line?

 

[gk_891]

It's probably too hard to say for sure right now. I guess time will tell.

They are not one of my choices for the best ice dance teams of all time (I would put them in my top 10 but not top 5) but I still appreciate their abilities and it's also hard to argue with their success.

 

[sharsk8s]

It seems like Meryl Davis and Charlie White have been slightly forgotten by ice dance fans over the last 5 years. Despite an Olympic gold medal and their stint on DWTS they are hardly brought up in conversation anymore. The champions and innovators of the 80ies and 90ies are still mentioned quite frequently, upcoming skaters usually reference Virtue Moir as their idols, and fans wonder what kind of influence Papadakis and Cizeron will have on the sport.
Davis and White's style of skating on the other hand has fallen out of favor with the judges and fans as well. In the past their legacy was closely tied to the rivalry with virtue and Moir but the Canadians have moved on from that and have cemented their own legacy independently from any rivalry.
When people argue over who are the GOATS of ice dance D/W are rarely brought up.

Why do you think is that and how will D/W be remembered ten years down the line?

I think the only thing they will be remembered is for their rivalry with v/m. They didn't bring any new style or have something super special about them (no one will be like "remember d/w edges" 10 years down the line). V/m were one of the most well-rounded and gifted teams in history with many historic programs. They had wonderful edges, difficult lifts, and an amazing connection. P/c created a completely new style of ID which I think marked the beginning of a new generation in the sport whose effects can be seen on most of the current teams (already you see people calling that style of programs "p/c type"). They have practically trademarked the soft and flowy style. Overall other then being occasionally mentioned as the US's most successful team, I don't think future skaters will really look at them for influence or role models.

 

[Colonel Green]

Whatever people feel about them artistically, their success was very important to the development of US ice dance, so I expect that can be considered part of their legacy.

 

[VGThuy]

I also think their high-speed, balls-to-the-walls give it all you got physicality style is harder to imitate. V/M's programs in their last two seasons under Gadbois were also incredibly dense, full of difficulty, and content and I also believe is harder to imitate. I think that's why so many teams try to imitate P/C because it may seem easier, but obviously it's not easy and P/C just make it look that way. They can try to imitate P/C but any team that does that always shows themselves to be lacking.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I think D/W brought much to ice dance that I miss. They were inventive and danced a wide range of themes. The east Indian dance, the Giselle, the My Fair Lady short, would be examples. Before IJS dance teams did all kinds of crazy stuff. D/W remind me of that.

I'm kind of bored now. So many dances revolve around intense, steamy, intimacy. A lot of it looks the same to me. Other disagree, I know

 

[Prancer]

Oh, good, another thread in which people can rehash the eleventy million past discussions about whether D&W were actually deserving of their victories.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I guess superior Technique!

I wish they woulda had a signature move or something that would really make them stand out (for me).

I'm more into the art and pizazz in Dance (Gilles & Poirier, Stepanova & Bukin) but I really admire the technique D&W brought.

lol @Prancer I havent stopped in D&W threads before... so theres been many discussions already?

 

[Barbara Manatee]

Meryl and Charlie formed an enduring, powerful partnership, stuck together through thick and thin, and made it to the absolute top of their sport through discipline, drive, hard work, sportsmanship, and teamwork (oh, and talent ). Nope, no role model material there at all.

 

[MsZem]

Oh, good, another thread in which people can rehash the eleventy million past discussions about whether D&W were actually deserving of their victories.

They were, though I preferred V/M at the time.

D/W were very good at what they did. I don't think they brought anything novel to skating (yes yes I know, the Bollywood OD), and ice dance has since gone in other directions, but not every OGM has a huge impact on the sport. Their impact, together with B/A, is probably more in inspiring US ice dancers and raising the profile of ice dance in the US.

 

[BittyBug]

Attention FSUers. Troll Patrol in Aisle 6.

What I think: despite efforts by some to diminish Davis & White's accomplishments, they will be remembered - independently from any other team - as a duo that elevated the athletic level of ice dance, helped revolutionize ice dance in the U.S., never played it safe and were incredibly gracious competitors.

 

[topaz]

I also think their high-speed, balls-to-the-walls give it all you got physicality style is harder to imitate. V/M's programs in their last two seasons under Gadbois were also incredibly dense, full of difficulty, and content and I also believe is harder to imitate. I think that's why so many teams try to imitate P/C because it may seem easier, but obviously it's not easy and P/C just make it look that way. They can try to imitate P/C but any team that does that always shows themselves to be lacking.

P/C's strength, physical flexibility along with incredible skating skills is just overwhelming for another team to overcome. They are very musical skaters too.

I agree regarding Meryl and Charlie. I'll never forget Charlie's exhaustion at the end of sochi free dance. They gave full on energy for over 4 minutes.

Also, the incredible way Meryl/Charlie improved so much from Vancouver to Sochi. Their consistency was remarkable too.

 

[Laura4]

Oh, good, another thread in which people can rehash the eleventy million past discussions about whether D&W were actually deserving of their victories.

Exactly what I thought when I saw the title of this thread.

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.globetrottingbyphilipher...hter-as-show-goes-on-leaving-you-wanting-more

 

[Judy]

Their obvious legacy was they were the first Americans to capture an Olympic gold medal.

 

[Orm Irian]

I wish they woulda had a signature move or something that would really make them stand out (for me).

Charlie doing a butterfly leap right over the top of Meryl's head kinda stands out as a signature move for me.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

^^ Not really.

Signature move is something thats done continually and something they are known for. Stepanova & Bukin = twizzles for 7 years in sit position. Simone Biles = The Biles. Something thats unique to them.

Hence, legacy inducing as the thread asked.

 

[Orm Irian]

They did it across multiple programs and multiple years; that's good enough to count for me.

 

[caseyedwards]

Technicians

 

[VGThuy]

I can think of a lot of moves that D/W did and have made their own. Even some of their detractors can think of at least a few that they disparaged as they said they did them in every program no matter the theme/character of the dance.

 

[once_upon]

This is an attempt to goad D/W fans bow to the awesomeness of those who will not be mentioned by me

 

[Aerobicidal]

I think Virtue and Moir and Papadakis and Cizeron are both excellent teams, but the amount of fans they have that seem to require constant validation that their taste is superior makes me want to lock them* in a room and force them to watch Hubbell and Hubbell's Lenny Kravitz program on loop for 48 hours.

*them = the rabid ubers who need constant validation = a tiny minority of actual fans of either team

Davis and White's skating wasn't usually my cup of Sprite Zero, but they obviously have and deserve an important legacy and I am also a fan of Charlie's outspoken political comments. Plus, one of Charlie's cousins was my student when I used to work in New York, and he said both Charlie and Meryl were great people. I would believe that anyway, but it's nice to have confirmation.

 

[VGThuy]

I will say this, I think D/W in their prime would probably be the only team (other than V/M in their prime) who would be able to challenge P/C because their style is so vastly different but they could hit levels and skate with sheer speed and attack in a way a lot of ice dance teams right now cannot do. They were able to do the Igor style at the highest levels. Maybe Sinitsina/Katsalapov are going to be able to (with the help of the judges) since they are also going for a more aggressive style to contrast with what Gadbois is offering. I was hoping back in 2016 that the Shibs would be able to be more of a challenge to P/C but they didn't progress in the way to do so and instead found themselves fighting for a distant bronze by 2018, and now it seems that they have other interests.

 

[Alilou]

Their signature move was a rotational lift with Meryl doing the splits on Charlie's shoulder. They did it one season, and apparently the judges asked them to bring it back again for the next season. Nobody else has done it before or since. They used it in Die Fledermaus, and in one other program.
Here at 2.27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjLyBAHmIXc&t=13s

I'm a V&M uber, but D&W did soooo much that I loved - Die Fledermaus, Giselle, Bollywood, My Fair Lady, and more.

 

[VGThuy]

They also were the first team I remember having those super fast and in-sync twizzles that wowed the audience. I remember first seeing them at 2008 Nationals* (yes, I missed most of the 2006-2007 season) and I realized right then and there that they had the potential to overtake Belbin/Agosto. I already thought they had it. I think both them and V/M upped the game for twizzles that they left most of their main competitors who were older and had to transition from 6.0 to IJS in the dust on that element. Then I saw the Shibs twizzles at 2009 Junior Worlds and even though now standards/expectations for that element are higher (especially from them), I remember wondering how exactly was that element going to further improve. Boy did it. Now everyone is taking that element their their own personal ceiling and we've become really spoiled with that element where a sequence that would have been incredible ten or less seasons ago are now almost common.

D/W's lifts also blew people away, especially in the 2009-2010 season with that opening combination lift in their Phantom of the Opera FD. For a lot of people D/W had a lot of chemistry between them during their performance and when it was just between them and V/M...D/W tried to give heat while V/M gave romance. They ramped up the connection without having fans needing to go through the whole "are they/they are aren't they/sekret babies" thing.

*On a separate note, I was also extremely impressed with Samuelson/Bates and despite their fall I thought they had what it took to be World champs one day or at least players internationally when being an American ice dance team was actually a detriment rather than an advantage in ice dance...well, at least they were junior world Champs. If it wasn't for the fall, I would have thought S/B's Nationals performance would be even better than their Junior World winning performance. They really attacked it that night.

 

[Dobre]

I think Davis & White will be remembered as the first U.S. Ice Dance team to reach the top. To ever win an Olympic Games--in Russia, no less--and to ever win Worlds.

On top of that, they will be remembered as one of the two teams that defined modern ice dance under IJS. The first generation to grow up under the required element system and truly master those elements. And one of the starring teams of the Golden Era of North American ice dance.

They will also be remembered for having the fastest rotating twizzles in the business during their era, for upping the technical ante of the sport, and for being tough competitors. Among the first to bring in level 4 difficulty and making it mandatory for their competition to bring it as well. Winning Worlds in their major competition's backyard.

I think they are responsible for the Hunchback of Notre Dame craze. I assume their fan base has their own strong favorites, but I personally think of them as being at their best when Charlie was selling the drama--having probably the best Phantom I have seen (it takes a lot for me to appreciate any Phantom), Esmeralda (which we must now suffer through on a regular basis because D&W made it a warhorse). And also I thought their Giselle and My Fair Lady were charming. Program-wise, their legacy, probably will come down to the individual. Achievement-wise, I always go back to the statement Carl Lewis made one time. That he would rather be first. World Records never last, but you always remember who was first.

 

[kosjenka]

I remember Davis and White as very hardworking and consistent competitors. I liked several of their programs, I loved some of their performances, but would not put them in my top 10 favorite ice dancers.
I have respect for their records as competitors and look up to people who do not seem to be the best match but with work and effort put it - made it to the top. And rightfully so.
That is a powerful legacy in my books.

 

[vireo]

I agree that Davis/White's atomic twizzles were their signature move. They were just incredibly fast.

Davis and White showed exceptional athleticism, attack, and consistency. The way they combined those qualities is what made them special. Their ability to skate such difficult programs without errors, time and again, was truly extraordinary.

Davis and White also did many innovative and exciting lifts. The rotational lift used in their Olympic SD has already been mentioned. Occasionally, a team will do a variation of that lift, but none have equaled D/W, with Meryl in a complete split all the way up on Charlie's shoulder.

The other inimitable Davis/White lift is the curve lift from Scheherazade. Still waiting for the dance team with the moxy and athletic ability to steal that lift.

 

[suki]

I think D/W brought much to ice dance that I miss. They were inventive and danced a wide range of themes. The east Indian dance, the Giselle, the My Fair Lady short, would be examples. Before IJS dance teams did all kinds of crazy stuff. D/W remind me of that.

I'm kind of bored now. So many dances revolve around intense, steamy, intimacy. A lot of it looks the same to me. Other disagree, I know

I totally agree. I remember gnashing my teeth with the OTT ice dancing of B/B in the late 80s. Fortunately, K/P and Duchneys provide some relief. I have the same hope that some of the younger teams coming up will mature and make the discipline exciting again. I know I will be crucified for this, but P/C bore me to tears. I long for the days of D/W, V/M, Shibs. Three very different couples with the technique and charisma to draw you into their programs.
JMHO, of course

 

[Buffybot]

[QUOTE="vireo, post: 5581893, member: 55806"
The other inimitable Davis/White lift is the curve lift from Scheherazade. Still waiting for the dance team with the moxy and athletic ability to steal that lift.[/QUOTE]

I was hoping someone would mention this; I adore that counter-rotational lift.

 

[The Accordion]

Mad Twizzling, intimidating consistency at an extremely high level of difficulty, one of the teams whose time together showed in countless ways, Bollywood, athleticism, curls.