What are Jason's chances this season?

[Kultakissu]

Maybe it's a cultural thing, the doubting/refusing to acknowledge I mean. I get this impression purely from the media, but an attitude of "you can do anything if you work hard/try hard enough" seems to be very popular across the pond. Ergo if and when somebody doesn't succeed - or doesn't get a jump - it must be because they're not working hard enough, right? I'm not saying people actually believe this consciously of course, but maybe subliminally they do a wee bit.

But I digress. Sorry

Anyway, Go Jason, I believe in you!!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

So who do all y'all think will have a more consistent quad of any kind this coming season?

Jason or Adam.

Ill go with Jason. Adam's ambitious quad lutzes or flips always make me nervous. And he has gotten full credit once, perhaps????

 

[Kultakissu]

So who do all y'all think will have a more consistent quad of any kind this coming season?

Jason or Adam.

Ill go with Jason. Adam's ambitious quad lutzes or flips always make me nervous. And he has gotten full credit once, perhaps????

Right now I'm thinking 50/50, because we haven't seen how Adam has recovered from his injury. But I hope they both manage at least a few!

 

[aftershocks]

The completed quad is not my measure of Jason's heart and indefatigable spirit. He landed the dang quad easily at SA in an absolutely breathtaking performance. Nitpicking, doubting judges, even in Jason's own home territory who are overfocused on adherence to quad-mania, refused to credit Jason, perhaps because he landed that quad-toe so easily and they didn't believe their own eyes, even on replay. The quad was around, and if they disbelieved it was around, it was certainly too close for them to go against the athlete! Very nitpicky, while mesmerizing Shoma (who is cute and precociously talented indeed) but who also flutzes and pre-rotates, gets away with those faults fairly consistently. No scrutiny from judges there. Shoma ended up winning SA, even with a fall and with unscrutinized tech flaws, because Shoma is seen to have more command of quad rotations, despite his pre-rotations on some jumps.

I personally love that Jason adheres to perfecting finer details and nuances, as well as to diligently improving his technical content. The fallacy is that because Jason doesn't flash quads consistently, he is somehow lacking in technical skill. That's not true. Jason has great technique, and he's a consistent jumper too. He knows how to perform all the basic jumps. The main thing that he's had to strive harder for is developing sufficient height and quickness to complete extra rotations; first the extra half rotation on the 3-axel, and now the full extra rotation on the quad. And obviously, his hard work has been paying off incrementally.

Even though Jason scores higher than many on PCS, Jason is still not being fairly rewarded for his superior artistry, transitions, choreography, and musical interpretation talents. The sport has rushed down a fault line of over-rewarding PCS to quad-meisters with decent but not extensive or superior artistic skills. But sure everyone has to adapt to the way the game is played, and/or achieve something special that cannot be denied, even if the judges wanted to deny it. I'm thinking of Rudy Galindo's 1996 exploits which he achieved through tremendous hard work, self-belief and perhaps a bit of divine providence.

The indication that perhaps skaters need to somehow pull back on artistic content is wrongheaded. For example, Nathan is talented musically and he has good body awareness and ballet training. He is not as gifted as Jason artistically, but he's also no slouch in that aspect of his skating. IOW, Nathan's talent PCS-wise is ahead of many skaters his age, and comparable to some others, with the sky the limit. It's a conscious decision by Nathan to focus his program content extensively on the jumps, which are one of his strengths and delights. He realizes that he is still developing artistically, and most of all he understands that the sport rewards and focuses more on the jumps, so he has time and leeway to improve further on artistry. In addition, jam-packed tech programs don't leave much room for artistic focus, and that's what the top quad guys are dealing with. Although ironically skaters like Hanyu and Javi, and now apparently Shoma too, don't seemingly have to worry too much about paying less attention to artistic content and expressiveness, because they are often generously over-rewarded on PCS by short-sighted ISU judges. The judges seem to be blinded by top guys' quad-abilities and smooth movement qualities to the point where some of their technique flaws and aesthetic flaws are completely overlooked.

Meanwhile, Jason doesn't have to focus heavily on developing artistry because those skills come to him more naturally. He is a perfectionist, so he does pay attention to fine-tuning and polishing. And that pays off for him in the range and variety of what he can do on the ice performance-wise. If Jason can then add at least two quads to his already bravura artistic talent with programs that tell a story and weave magic, he's ahead of the game IMO, whether or not the politics or the miserly judges agree.

 

[arakwafan2006]

So who do all y'all think will have a more consistent quad of any kind this coming season?

Jason or Adam.

Ill go with Jason. Adam's ambitious quad lutzes or flips always make me nervous. And he has gotten full credit once, perhaps????

The better question is which one REALLY needs one to qualify. Jason's skating skills and spins are infinitely better than Adam's. I think they're equal with the jumps although Jason's are nicer to watch. Adam needs a quad I think more than Jason. If they both show up with clean skates and a quad each, I think Jason will win.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't underestimate either Jason Brown or Adam Rippon. If they both bring it like they brung it at Skate America last October as well as Adam at TDF Because to me, that's what skating is all about: well-rounded tech content with bravura performance skills and telling a story that excites emotions. Passion, desire, and competitive fire!
Listen to CBC commentators' on Jason's 2016 SA fp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWM1aFmq5HY
Despite Browning getting it wrong re suspecting a two-foot on the quad landing, both Browning and co-commentator at least got it very right that it was a completed quad, and that Jason has such skill and command over the ice that he made a very difficult program look exceedingly easy. But even before Jason started the program, there were the ubiquitous quad questions and under-expectations. So Jason not only must perfect quads, he must slay dismissive attitudes by those who wield power, i.e., the judges. Unfortunately, the judges can't seem to recognize the amazing qualities Jason put on display in this bravura performance, as Browning and co-commentator at least were able to articulate to a degree.

This was Adam's best performance of his sp, and I was there live to see it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j2MOii3EPk SA sp AdaRipp
BritEurosport guys: "a 3-lutz with both arms aloft" Guys that's a Rippon-lutz! Nuff-said!
AdaRipp's breathtaking SA fp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhL7DE6mnWA CBC commentary
In France, Adam's bravura fp performance with quad-toe landed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Hvo-3yXvic As both JWeir at TDF and KBrowning at SA observed, "Adam's full commitment to the choreography" and the overall quality of everything he does, is what for me makes the difference.

Jason landed a quad at SA, and Adam landed a quad at TDF, which were hard-won accomplishments despite all the chafing, complaints, and critiques re them needing to perfect quads and add more quads. Of course adding more quads has become the going thing in light of Nathan Chen seeing the 'writing on wall' and having the talent, technique and youthful gumption to raise the quad bar even further, so much so that the top quad guys had to adjust their program strategies and fans of the top guys had to rework their critiques and slams of other skaters.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Jason is already 22. It's highly unlikely he will get a consistent, rotated, landed quad...

 

[olympic]

^^^I would have to give the edge to Jason if forced to choose.

 

[Bellanca]

And that's what it is all about, the (quad) writing on the wall, at least for this season. It's good that Jason & Co. know this, and they are in the process of retooling his jump content and layout, at least in the SP ... ambitious as it might be.

 

[montrealsurfa]

The problem is that we are now at the point simply "having a quad" is nothing. Fernandez and Chan both have quads and do multiple ones but both look outdated technically to the point that Chan imparticular needs others to blow even with a perfect competition to stand a chance. Fernandez could have defended his world title last year with a strong long program, courtesy only of Hanyu having blown the short, but it is doubtful his chances next year no longer as World Champion will be as good unless he adds even more quads. You have a guy like Nathan Chen who tries 8 quads per competition, and then you have guys like Uno and Hanyu who try 6 per competition, have 3 different quads atleast, and who have the package (artistry, skating skills, spins, etc..) down pretty pat too. So simply "having a quad" isnt close to enough, you need many quads. If you are still at the point of trying to master one then LOL as far as your world prospects. Just having a quad, even if Brown gets one which he sort of has already, is not nearly enough, you need to go well beyond that. Chan is far beyond Brown in jump content, and even he is badly outmatched in jump content and base value to the point he is barely competitive, even with the absolute best skating skills, and some of the best programs and non jump elements, and a far wider pedigree of past success and rep value in the sport than someone like Brown or Rippon has.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Adam and Jason shouldn't even be in the same conversation. Jason, imo, is vastly superior to Adam in every aspect. Better programs, better expression, better jumps, better spins, better skating skills...

 

[montrealsurfa]

Absolutely. However my point is neither stand a shot without a HUGE upgrade in jump content. It has to go beyond merely "having a quad".

Adam I think would be thrilled to tears just to make the U.S Olympic team. It has been a lifelong dream still unmet.

Jason is pretty much sure to make the team with 3 spots, but a top 5 at the Games would be a monster success for him. A medal would be a minor miracle in this field.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Adam and Jason shouldn't even be in the same conversation. Jason, imo, is vastly superior to Adam in every aspect. Better programs, better expression, better jumps, better spins, better skating skills...

Well I will say I am wayyyyy more into Jason's music choices. I havent liked much of anything Adam has skated to.

 

[Bellanca]

Hypothetically speaking, if both Adam and Jason have a decent season, skate clean at Nationals, but do not win the title with spots 1 and 2 going to other skaters, then, IMHO, advantage - Jason.

ETA: This comment is addressing an Adam vs. Jason scenario, and if it should end up being between the two for the third spot. However, I have not forgotten about Max! He is a very strong, solid contender! As a matter of fact, I would give a clean skate by Max the edge over a clean skate by Adam.

 

[Jaana]

At least this moment it seems that Chen and Zhou will be on the US Olympic team, but there are several candidates for the third place: Aaron, Brown, Rippon (and possibly Farris) plus whoever else might rise to the occasion... The fall competitions leading to US Nationals will be exciting!

 

[DreamSkates]

.....overcome the odds against him...[/QUOTE

The "odds" being starting late to learn any quad? I would make a joke about his hair holding him back by throwing hi off balance but I guess that would not be funny. I do hope he can develop a consistent quad this season - he has seemed so close!

 

[aftershocks]

^^ You need to fix your quote reference. You need an end bracket after 'QUOTE,' to close the words you are quoting from me.

And nope by 'odds,' I am not referring to Jason 'starting late to learn quads.' When he was a young skater, it was not known how crucial quads would become in order to win. The significant quad change (re scoring value) happened circa 2010-2011 when Jason was a U.S. junior champion transitioning to senior competition.

The main 'odds' are clearly Jason's need to gain sufficient height and quick rotations, which can be easier for skaters with slimmer hips and for skaters who get great spring when they vault into the air.